All your discussion on budget cuts / 4 year plan announcements today goes here.

thebigbiffo

Lumen wrote: »

If I was interested in being elected I'd announce a 60% tax rate on all earnings over 100k. This would give the impression of hitting the better paid.

In fact, the "widening of the tax base" will hit all workers, including the better paid, but that's not how the headlines will read.

It's like FF deliberately produced a budget to piss off the poor people.

8% of the workforce earn over 75k and contribute 60% of income taxes. i'll actually stick my neck out and say it's unfair to ask this grouping of people to pay your suggested amount more simply because they're lucky/driven/educated enough to have got that type of wage or more.

mojesius

RTE - Varadkar and Rabbitte both enquired about the problem with minimum wage decrease v SW, nice how Martin and Dobbo both quickly moved on.

--Kaiser--

ilovesleep wrote: »

Ye have no idea what i want to do right now. if i write it here i will be banned. we need fcuking trouble at saturdays protest. And im thinking petrol and matches

Yes, feel free to set yourself on fire, and anyone else who thinks violence is a solution

Biggins

What I am looking at now in the next few weeks to eventually pay is:

Doubling of tax on my heating bills per month - ESB and gas (Carbon tax doubled).
Home tax.
Water tax/charge.
Higher VAT.
Pension cuts.

...And thats NOW that we know of before they even announce the rest in the budget.

longshanks

This 'site tax'. Is it not the case in a lot of housing estates that the builder owns the site, the home owner only owns the house on that site? I'd gladly have the builder pay that tax.
Or am I way off the mark?

Lumen

thebigbiffo wrote: »

8% of the workforce earn over 75k and contribute 60% of income taxes. i'll actually stick my neck out and say it's unfair to ask this grouping of people to pay your suggested amount more simply because they're lucky/driven/educated enough to have got that type of wage or more.

The fairness issue is arguable. In any case, those people will pay more through reduced tax allowances under the current proposal, but the headlines will be about hitting the poor.

8% of the workforce is an even smaller proportion of the electorate - they are electorally insignificant. I'm just surprised that FF would leave the door open for the opposition parties, it's politically inept.

I guess they've given up hope of any electoral success.

Giblet

So 50 euro a month gone + 33.3 for rent relief. I'm out 83.3 a month already and the Budget is yet to come!

I'd imagine most people are the same who are currently working and getting rent relief.

Biggins

longshanks wrote: »

This 'site tax'. Is it not the case in a lot of housing estates that the builder owns the site, the home owner only owns the house on that site? I'd gladly have the builder pay that tax.
Or am I way off the mark?

Its a home tax.
Not a builders tax for every house he/she builds.

Turtyturd

dolphin city wrote: »

ej seriously tho - lots of people avail of this rent relief - if they dnot have it they will be kicked out of their houses that they are renting. Where do they go? hostels?

Don't worry the government wouldn't be stupid enough to let all those empty houses around the country go to waste.

Zephyr75

ilovesleep wrote: »

Ye have no idea what i want to do right now. if i write it here i will be banned. we need fcuking trouble at saturdays protest. And im thinking petrol and matches

There's no doubt many people are furious now, but violence is not the answer.

Biggins

Giblet wrote: »

So 50 euro a month gone + 33.3 for rent relief. I'm out 83.3 a month already and the Budget is yet to come!

I'd imagine most people are the same who are currently working and getting rent relief.

If your on rent relief - are you on social welfare do you mind me asking? (Don't answer. Its none of my business)
I did bring it up 'cos it was stated in a couple of media reports on Sunday everyone on welfare will be getting a minimum of 10% cut across the board.

Giblet

Biggins wrote: »

If your on rent relief - are you on social welfare do you mind me asking? (Don't answer. Its none of my business)
I did bring it up 'cos it was stated in a couple of media reports on Sunday everyone on welfare will be getting a minimum of 10% cut across the board.

Rent Relief is claiming tax back, not an allowance. It can be done through "PAYE Anytime"

mloc

Could someone explain to me how large protests, in particular violent ones, are going to help the country recover?

Butterflylove

Biggins wrote: »

If your on rent relief - are you on social welfare do you mind me asking? (Don't answer. Its none of my business)
I did bring it up 'cos it was stated in a couple of media reports on Sunday everyone on welfare will be getting a minimum of 10% cut across the board.

I think he means the rent tax credit for renting privately that is gone from jan 2011 as well as credit for trade union subs and 6 other tax credits

bankscrewed

Appear to be more waffle and very liittle genuine substance, whilst type of approach may be suitable to bull**** the Irish publice. I very much doubt that those now in control of the purse strings will accept such drivle. Promises to do this and that but as usual no detail. I very much doubt this will do anything to calm the markets and show that Ireland Inc has any resolve to sort out the mess.
With the government now about to own 99.9% of AIB and potentially over 50% of BOI, therefore a state & taxpayer owned organisation, how does that that sit with these 2 banks (state owned) repossesing people homes ?

SeaFields

ilovesleep wrote: »

we need fcuking trouble at saturdays protest.

No we don't. That will get us no where.

DonJose

VAT + 2% plus more income tax hikes. Been a while since I shopped in the North, I'll be doing all my shopping up North from now on.

LeixlipRed

mloc wrote: »

Could someone explain to me how large protests, in particular violent ones, are going to help the country recover?

Could someone explain to me how doing nothing, in large quantities is going to help this country recover? :rolleyes:

dolphin city

can somebody clarify - is the rent relief they are talking about

a. rent relief for people on the dole where they get most of their rent paid.

or

b. the rental credit you get for renting a private property and paying all the rent yourself and claiming back the credit on your prsi for previous year

Biggins

Giblet wrote: »

Rent Relief is claiming tax back, not an allowance. It can be done through "PAYE Anytime"

Butterflylove wrote: »

I think he means the rent tax credit for renting privately that is gone from jan 2011 as well as credit for trade union subs and 6 other tax credits

Fair enough.
Its ruddy confusing to be honest.
I sometimes think they are keeping it that way on purpose as a secondary effect.

Jesus Wept

To clear this up...

Rent relief is going. This is (was) a tax relief for employed people.

Rent supplement/rent allowance is thus far unmentioned and unchanged, this is a welfare payment for the unemployed to assist in the cost of paying their rent.

dolphin city

The-Rigger wrote: »

To clear this up...

Rent relief is going. This is (was) a tax relief for employed people.

Rent supplement/rent allowance is thus far unmentioned and unchanged, this is a welfare payment for the unemployed to assist in the cost of paying their rent.

ok thank you rigger.

thats another cut for me so

Butterflylove

dolphin city wrote: »

can somebody clarify - is the rent relief they are talking about

a. rent relief for people on the dole where they get most of their rent paid.

or

b. the rental credit you get for renting a private property and paying all the rent yourself and claiming back the credit on your prsi for previous year

B!

But thats not saying A wont be reduced as well

connundrum

mloc wrote: »

Could someone explain to me how large protests, in particular violent ones, are going to help the country recover?

Builders will get work repairing shop fronts?

I dunno, a protest is needed, a non violent protest.

This plan is crap (in parts), there are better, more progressive solutions.

Blazer

mloc wrote: »

Could someone explain to me how large protests, in particular violent ones, are going to help the country recover?

Because maybe putting the fear of god into the politicians means they won't lie to us in the future.
It looks like this is what is needed. Not violent protests but mass protests of over 100,000 ppl + to get these idiots out of office.
That 4 year plan is a farce, no public wage cuts, no TD/Government cuts.
Basically tax all the workers and hopefully enough of them will stick around to increase the take.
The 2.75% growth is fúckin ridiculous...how on earth are they coming up with that figure when everyone knows taking €5 billion out of the economy means less growth..

Our only hope now is FG/Labour/Independents all vote against the budget and bring down the government.

msg11

SIPTU General President Jack O'Connor has called the plan a roadmap to the Stone Age and a declaration of war on low income earners.

Not far off the mark with the Stone Age..

Biggins

The-Rigger wrote: »

To clear this up...

Rent relief is going. This is (was) a tax relief for employed people.

Rent supplement/rent allowance is thus far unmentioned and unchanged, this is a welfare payment for the unemployed to assist in the cost of paying their rent.

...Till the budget. I'd be surprised if there is no change in some way to it, to be honest.
It won't effect myself, I'm a home owner with those associated bills but for those on it, I would be a bit worried till budget day details are further announced.

davyjose

Corporation tax is untouched.

Marvellous, i'm delighhted for my wealthy employers.

We're supposed to all be sharing the problem, but corporation tax hsn't moved even a half a percent. We're all suffering for the faults of the banks and government. This isn't sharing anything, this is the working people of this country getting shat on.

I'm disgusted!

ibarelycare

DonJose wrote: »

VAT + 2% plus more income tax hikes. Been a while since I shopped in the North, I'll be doing all my shopping up North from now on.

The VAT rate isn't going up here until 2013. The UK's VAT rate is going to be 20% from January 2011.

krudler

So once again, governement officials and their mates along with the rich are ok, but the average/lower income Joe Soap gets raped. Brilliant.

ejmaztec

dolphin city wrote: »

ej seriously tho - lots of people avail of this rent relief - if they dnot have it they will be kicked out of their houses that they are renting. Where do they go? hostels?

They'll only get kicked out if they don't pay the rent. They'll still be paying the landlord the same, but their actual income will be reduced by a few quid a week because there's no longer tax relief on it. Some people will notice it more than others.:(

ibarelycare

davyjose wrote: »

Corporation tax is untouched.

Marvellous, i'm delighhted for my wealthy employers.

We're supposed to all be sharing the problem, but corporation tax hsn't moved even a half a percent. We're all suffering for the faults of the banks and government. This isn't sharing anything, this is the working people of this country getting shat on.

I'm disgusted!

Not all employers are wealthy. I'm sure most of them in the country are struggling. And directors still have to pay Income Tax, PRSI, etc. Leaving corporation taxes untouched is probably one of the more sensible parts of the plan. It's a huge incentive for foreign companies to come here and create jobs.

--Kaiser--

davyjose wrote: »

Corporation tax is untouched.

Marvellous, i'm delighhted for my wealthy employers.

We're supposed to all be sharing the problem, but corporation tax hsn't moved even a half a percent. We're all suffering for the faults of the banks and government. This isn't sharing anything, this is the working people of this country getting shat on.

I'm disgusted!

If it's raised a lot it will encourage companies to leave, not a good move in my opinion.

Lumen

krudler wrote: »

So once again, governement officials and their mates along with the rich are ok, but the average/lower income Joe Soap gets raped. Brilliant.

Everyone who pays income tax will pay more of it.

davyjose

Sc@recrow wrote: »

Because maybe putting the fear of god into the politicians means they won't lie to us in the future.
It looks like this is what is needed. Not violent protests but mass protests of over 100,000 ppl + to get these idiots out of office.
That 4 year plan is a farce, no public wage cuts, no TD/Government cuts.
Basically tax all the workers and hopefully enough of them will stick around to increase the take.
The 2.75% growth is fúckin ridiculous...how on earth are they coming up with that figure when everyone knows taking €5 billion out of the economy means less growth..

Our only hope now is FG/Labour/Independents all vote against the budget and bring down the government.

If there's a protest, I'll be there.

I'm done with these cùnts walking all over us.

Morlar

msg11 wrote: »

SIPTU General President Jack O'Connor has called the plan a roadmap to the Stone Age and a declaration of war on low income earners.

Not far off the mark with the Stone Age..

Fcuk siptu.

The major interesting point is no public sector redundancies or salary reductions, no salary cap at 100k etc

So we are now borrowing 85Bn at approx 5% interest, and a chunk of that each year will continue to go on public sector wages & pensions. The govt are adopting a 'some animals are more equal than others' approach. Even now they refuse to tackle this part of the problem effectively.

Biggins

ejmaztec wrote: »

They'll only get kicked out if they don't pay the rent. They'll still be paying the landlord the same, but their actual income will be reduced by a few quid a week because there's no longer tax relief on it. Some people will notice it more than others.:(

Cheers for the explanation.

davyjose

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

If it's raised a lot it will encourage companies to leave, not a good move in my opinion.

A half % raise in corporation tax would still make ours the lowest in the EU afaik.

That's the point though isn't it. The government know they can do what they like to us. So they hit us. Big business can walk, and so the government pander to them. Pathetic.

TwoShedsJackson

ejmaztec wrote: »

I can see some new cookery programe on the TV on how to survive by turning your own sh1t into a tasty meal for 4.

If you can't afford food in the first place, you'll be producing little or no **** to turn into a tasty meal for 4.

Gunsfortoys

A very tough cut for everyone. I can't see a very bright future for Ireland at all, it is families that will suffer the most.

I also think the minimal cuts in the public sector is an absolute disgrace.

brianthebard

ibarelycare wrote: »

It's a huge incentive for foreign companies to come here and create jobs.

Considering the companies that left recently, I don't think so. What companies have actually invested because of the corporation tax I wonder? I don't think its as big a deal as the government makes out, and its importance to them is probably directly related to the amount of publicans and shopkeepers in the party. I'm close to praying that the opposition manage to win a vote of no confidence/vote down this budget.

msg11

Morlar wrote: »

Fcuk siptu.

The major interesting point is no public sector redundancies or salary reductions, no salary cap at 100k etc

So we are now borrowing 85Bn at approx 5% interest, and a chunk of that each year will continue to go on public sector wages & pensions. The govt are adopting a 'some animals are more equal than others' approach. Even now they refuse to tackle this part of the problem effectively.

He is right about the Stone Age, we will be back in the 1950's in no time. People won't be left with a cent for anything entertaining or a bit of excitement in there life. I doubt there will be as many flying off to Spain, good owl Wexford will be back on the cards.

ilovesleep

<snip>
Mod: Another advocation of violence will result in a ban from this forum

DonJose

davyjose wrote: »

A half % raise in corporation tax would still make ours the lowest in the EU afaik.

That's the point though isn't it. The government know they can do what they like to us. So they hit us. Big business can walk, and so the government pander to them. Pathetic.

Yeah we still have by far one of the lowest corporation taxes in the developed world. Even if we raised it to 15% it would still be half the rate of the UK.

Biggins

Morlar wrote: »

Fcuk siptu.

The major interesting point is no public sector redundancies or salary reductions, no salary cap at 100k etc

So we are now borrowing 85Bn at approx 5% interest, and a chunk of that each year will continue to go on public sector wages & pensions. The govt are adopting a 'some animals are more equal than others' approach. Even now they refuse to tackle this part of the problem effectively.

Any new public sector workers hired are getting 10% less in wages than their already same level (or higher) fellow staff/worker.

krudler

I hear they're announcing the return of butter vouchers at 5pm

sagat2

msg11 wrote: »

He is right about the Stone Age, we will be back in the 1950's in no time. People won't be left with a cent for anything entertaining or a bit of excitement in there life. I doubt there will be as many flying off to Spain, good owl Wexford will be back on the cards.

If people spend their holidays in Ireland, it will create jobs and boost the economy.

Dean820

msg11 wrote: »

He is right about the Stone Age, we will be back in the 1950's in no time. People won't be left with a cent for anything entertaining or a bit of excitement in there life. I doubt there will be as many flying off to Spain, good owl Wexford will be back on the cards.

(has flashbacks to rainy 2 week holidays in Kerry)

No! Please...god....no!:eek::eek:

msg11

brianthebard wrote: »

I'm close to praying that the opposition manage to win a vote of no confidence/vote down this budget.

Come on now, we all know that ain't going to happen. The way the media have them as all hating each other. When in fact, there all good buddys in there. I wanna see a list of who votes this sack of ****e in.

Jesus Wept

Biggins wrote: »

...Till the budget. I'd be surprised if there is no change in some way to it, to be honest.
It won't effect myself, I'm a home owner with those associated bills but for those on it, I would be a bit worried till budget day details are further announced.

I doubt they'll make wholesale changes, perhaps a small deduction in the rates, nothing that will bring any change.

ibarelycare wrote: »

The VAT rate isn't going up here until 2013. The UK's VAT rate is going to be 20% from January 2011.

So we'll send everyone over the border in search of cheaper goods.
Well played govt.