All your discussion on budget cuts / 4 year plan announcements today goes here.

Lone Stone

so eh seriously is it time to start thinking about taking our savings out of the bank ? ???????? or even changing it into dollars or yen ? im concerned about my savings

ow and im not one of these people who have apparently been having a part the past few years with the "boom" ive never even been on a holiday and i grew up below the poverty line my ma worked two jobs to feed us. I dont know anyone who benefited through he boom and i cert inly haven't seen it benefit my area. As far as im concerned the only one to benefit the fruits of the boom were those who were well off in the first place.

davyjose

trishawisha wrote: »

Iv been glued to all the news channels all weekend and many of them have been saying something similar. The Irish had a massive party, and heres the hangover.

well my invitation must have gotten lost in the fcuking post!!!

red menace

IMF from 5 years ago
Interesting reading
Good policies my ass
But also first signs of shakeyness to come

On October 5, 2005, the Executive Board of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) concluded the Article IV consultation with Ireland.
Background
Macroeconomic performance in Ireland was extraordinary during the 1990s and has remained impressive in recent years, due in significant measure to good policies. Real GNP growth averaged 4½ percent in 2003-04, reflecting strong domestic demand and healthy net exports. Rapid employment growth was supported by sizable immigration. With the appreciation of the euro since 2002, HICP inflation has fallen to about 2¼ percent. House price appreciation has continued to slow gradually, but house prices remain high on various measures.
Ireland's public finances are strong, but fiscal policy has been procyclical in recent years. Gross public debt is about 30 percent of GDP, among the lowest in the EU; taxes on labor and business income are relatively low; and the general government fiscal position has been either close to balance or in surplus since 1996. However, fiscal policy was expansionary during 2001-02, when economic activity was somewhat higher than potential, and contractionary during 2003-04, when the output gap was negative. The 2005 budget implies considerable fiscal stimulus, at a time when the economy is widely regarded as being close to full employment.
Labor market flexibility is Ireland is good, as reflected in rapid employment growth and low unemployment. This is largely due to reforms of the tax and benefit systems, which has produced one of the lowest tax wedges among industrial countries. However, labor costs are high compared to euro area partners. National wage agreements and public sector benchmarking exercises play important roles in the wage setting process.
Banking system profitability and capitalization are strong, and nonperforming loans are low. However, vulnerabilities exist: credit growth—while slowing—remains high, property-related lending accounts for more than half of the stock of bank lending, and net interest margins have declined as reliance on more expensive wholesale funding has increased. Household debt has risen sharply and amounted to 120 percent of disposable income at end-2004.
The elderly dependency ratio in Ireland will rise considerably over the coming half century, though the increase is back-loaded compared to the rest of the euro area. Incentives to keep older people in the workforce are relatively strong, so that the effective retirement age is one of the highest among industrial countries. The state-funded old-age pension provides a flat share of average earnings, which helps the elderly avoid poverty but provides only a low replacement rate for the majority of workers.

barbiegirl

Lone Stone wrote: »

so eh seriously is it time to start thinking about taking our savings out of the bank ? ???????? or even changing it into dollars or yen ? im concerned about my savings

You have savings????? Seriously though from the BBC's overview they still see them as safe. I'm watching for my mum as she has Daddy's life insurance money and can't afford to lose it.

Handsome Bob

Lone Stone wrote: »

so eh seriously is it time to start thinking about taking our savings out of the bank ? ???????? or even changing it into dollars or yen ? im concerned about my savings

No-one can touch your money in the bank buddy as far as I'm aware.

ninebeanrows

Our sovereign debt problems may have been difficult but are manageable.

The problem is beyond what me and you can do now however.

Our banks are in such a state and are now inextricably linked to the state so in a sense we are bound together and will together unless we can perform some sort of separation operation.

The truth of the extent of money needed by the banks will be enough to ensure Ireland will default. It is not conceivable for us to have debt servicing costs of 15bn per year, which is the order independant analysts anticipate.

We must let the banks go, quickly.

ibarelycare

mossyc123 wrote: »

Yeah, its terrible we really do live in a 3rd world country :rolleyes:

No we don't.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Biggins

Lone Stone wrote: »

so eh seriously is it time to start thinking about taking our savings out of the bank ? ???????? or even changing it into dollars or yen ? im concerned about my savings

Good christ!!!

Has this still to be stated yet fcukin' again! :mad:

YOUR SAVINGS ARE SAFE - STATE GUARANTEED - GOING NOWHERE EXCEPT TO YOU WHEN YOU WANT THEM.

For frigs sake!!!
WHAT THE HELL IS BEING TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS! :mad:

steo87

Biggins wrote: »

Good christ!!!

Has this still to be stated yet fcukin' again! :mad:

YOUR SAVINGS ARE SAFE - STATE GUARANTEED - GOING NOWHERE EXCEPT TO YOU WHEN YOU WANT THEM.

For frigs sake!!!
WHAT THE HELL IS BEING TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS! :mad:

Yaaaay...if they government guarantee it then it must be true...it's not like they haven't guaranteed us anything else :rolleyes:

White dargo

Biggins wrote: »

Good christ!!!

Has this still to be stated yet fcukin' again! :mad:

YOUR SAVINGS ARE SAFE - STATE GUARANTEED - GOING NOWHERE EXCEPT TO YOU WHEN YOU WANT THEM.

For frigs sake!!!
WHAT THE HELL IS BEING TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS! :mad:

Most people understand the State guarantee fella. The problem is the state is insolvent. I'm not running to the bank today or tomorrow to withdraw my savings but I'm not taking it for granted that they are 100% safe over the next four years either. If the country defaults on the IMF loan all bets are off.

cypharius

Biggins wrote: »

WHAT THE HELL IS BEING TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS! :mad:

Irish and poetry mainly. Speaking of which, seeing as this is a crisis, why don't we save some money in schools by not wasting any more money on teaching a dead language that nobody wants to learn?

th3 s1aught3r

Biggins wrote: »

Good christ!!!

Has this still to be stated yet fcukin' again! :mad:

YOUR SAVINGS ARE SAFE - STATE GUARANTEED - GOING NOWHERE EXCEPT TO YOU WHEN YOU WANT THEM.

For frigs sake!!!
WHAT THE HELL IS BEING TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS! :mad:

If Ireland defaults are deposits still guaranteed ?
Just askin

Tilt Gone

We are going to default though yeah?? I mean it's the only card we have left t play. we should be going to the IMF and saying look, You give us the money at 1 or 2% and we'll sort out the rest.

We can't accept that money at 6 or 7% interest or it's pointless getting it as it's only pushing the debt farther down the timeline. If we don't get bailed out, we could quite possibly bring the whole EU down. Spain and Portugal are not that far away from being totally in the **** also. The EU know this so the fact of the matter is we shouldn't be cowering in these talks afraid of defaulting, we should be threating them with defaulting if they don't meet our terms. Actually we should be doing this deal with the ECB. Those are the guys that really have the money we need. And our interests are totally inter twined with these guys. They'd have to give us what we need

**** Irish pride. That died a long time ago. No one expects us to pay this back because we simply can't. Why drag this out and make us look like bigger gob****es than we already do
Four year plan my arse.

Time to dig out the pitchforks and torches

thebigbiffo

i get to lose 20-30% tax relief on my pension - meanwhile, back in Cushyland, the public service get to hold onto their gauranteed pension for a levy they wont stop complaining about.

hate that.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Mister men

TD cuts? Thought not. Expect trouble on Saturday folks.

Biggins

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

If Ireland defaults are deposits still guaranteed ?
Just askin

Yes.
There is very, very little chance of that ever happening.
There is more chance of Lord Lucan returning on Shergar, being led by the nose by Elvis in front - than you losing your Irish savings.

The European monetary banking systems are too intertwined for them (the rest involved) to fall - or to be ALLOWED to fall.

Mister men

Lone Stone wrote: »

so eh seriously is it time to start thinking about taking our savings out of the bank ? ???????? or even changing it into dollars or yen ? im concerned about my savings

ow and im not one of these people who have apparently been having a part the past few years with the "boom" ive never even been on a holiday and i grew up below the poverty line my ma worked two jobs to feed us. I dont know anyone who benefited through he boom and i cert inly haven't seen it benefit my area. As far as im concerned the only one to benefit the fruits of the boom were those who were well off in the first place.

I'll be blunt. If you have'nt already get down there tomorrow and get the money out. The country is going to implode.

Tilt Gone

Mister men wrote: »

TD cuts? Thought not. Expect trouble on Saturday folks.

Good.

th3 s1aught3r

Mister men wrote: »

TD cuts? Thought not. Expect trouble on Saturday folks.

I want to see the ordinary people out on Satuday, not just the usual sinn fein trouble makers

prinz

Not so bad tbh.

thebigbiffo

Obaraten wrote: »

Eveyone across society taking the same measured financial pain?

it's all pain, that much ya cant argue with. i, personally, would like to see more of a gap between the dole and the minimum wage.

barbiegirl

Mister men wrote: »

TD cuts? Thought not. Expect trouble on Saturday folks.

Why Why Why, does destroying private property and making a fool of yourself, risking a criminal record and generally acting the eegit make you feel better. Do you think it is the way to protect and gain respect and acknowledgment of your point?
I won't be protesting because it will be taken over by unsavoury elements and I don't want to give them any support.

OPENROAD

Biggins wrote: »

Yes.
There is very, very little chance of that ever happening.
There is more chance of Lord Lucan returning on Shergar, being led by the nose by Elvis in front - than you losing your Irish savings.

The European monetary banking systems are too intertwined for them (the rest involved) to fall - or to be ALLOWED to fall.

So we can manage the HUGE interest payments on our bailout?

dr.bollocko

ilovesleep wrote: »

Ye have no idea what i want to do right now. if i write it here i will be banned. we need fcuking trouble at saturdays protest. And im thinking petrol and matches

And more crap like the above will result in bans. No exceptions from here on out. Anyone advocating violence or rioting will have their access removed.

Biggins

steo87 wrote: »

Yaaaay...if they government guarantee it then it must be true...it's not like they haven't guaranteed us anything else :rolleyes:

White dargo wrote: »

Most people understand the State guarantee fella. The problem is the state is insolvent. I'm not running to the bank today or tomorrow to withdraw my savings but I'm not taking it for granted that they are 100% safe over the next four years either. If the country defaults on the IMF loan all bets are off.

This is depressing. In this day and age that after many, many years of school and education, folk still don't understand economics 101.


IF - MASSIVE "IF" - the state was to fall - your €600 or whatever is STILL in your account.
It is still €600 - it might buy feck all as things MIGHT get more crazy costly - but your €600 will STILL be there!
Christ almighty... I despair!

th3 s1aught3r

Biggins wrote: »

Yes.
There is very, very little chance of that ever happening.
There is more chance of Lord Lucan returning on Shergar, being led by the nose by Elvis in front - than you losing your Irish savings.

The European monetary banking systems are too intertwined for them (the rest involved) to fall - or to be ALLOWED to fall.

They were saying that a lot of deposits were withdrawn in recent weeks (billions) from Irish banks. Is there a different reason for this do you think ?

FreudianSlippers

Biggins wrote: »

Yes.
There is very, very little chance of that ever happening.
There is more chance of Lord Lucan returning on Shergar, being led by the nose by Elvis in front - than you losing your Irish savings.

The European monetary banking systems are too intertwined for them (the rest involved) to fall - or to be ALLOWED to fall.

Most people keep rambling on about this and that and how the USA is so great and they're moving there, but finally someone gets it.

Thank you for this post. I'm blue in the face saying it.


The US was in the EXACT same position a couple of years ago. The idea of too big to fail really started there because of the exact same issue. The only problem is that the US can get out of it by printing more money and taking on national debt in the trillions from China, but we have a system that is far more sophisticated in the EU to deal with this scenario. It's going to hurt now, but we cannot and will not let these banks fail just to bring down all of Europe.

thebigbiffo

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

I want to see the ordinary people out on Satuday, not just the usual sinn fein trouble makers

i'm not being cheeky here, but what exactly are we protesting for/against? i dont think there's one central issue really is there? it's a bit like an 'ohhhh, i can't accept that the country's f'ucked' kind of thing.

i mean, we knew we had to pay for the clean up of this mess - is the protest for or against cleaning up the mess, end of? because that's what the budget is doing (in general)...

squod

Protest in front of who? It's An Traitors day off, the rest of the cabinet will be at home.

bk

danniemcq wrote: »

Entry point for income tax to fall to €15,300 – from €18,300 currently – by 2014

ok so new budget thing you have a minimum wage job
7.65*39*52=15514.2 you pay tax
old way
8.65*39*52=17542.2 No Tax

Talk about hittin the less well off the hardest

You are legally required to take 20 days holidays per year, which is 4 weeks, so the actual figures are:

new budget thing you have a minimum wage job
7.65*39*48 = 14,320.80 No Tax
old way
8.65*39*48 = 16,192.80 No Tax

Either way you still aren't paying tax. Of course you are still earning less, but I just want to clarify the point.

I'm wrong, I forgot you get paid during your holidays, please ignore.

squod

thebigbiffo wrote: »

.

i mean, we knew we had to pay for the clean up of this mess -

D'oh

Ghetto Cornetto

The-Rigger wrote: »

To clear this up...

Rent relief is going. This is (was) a tax relief for employed people.

Rent supplement/rent allowance is thus far unmentioned and unchanged, this is a welfare payment for the unemployed to assist in the cost of paying their rent.

My girlfriend is a young single mother raising a 5 year old Autistic/ADHD child by herself (father fúcked off). The roof over her head depends on rent allowance.

I was genuinely sh!tting myself for a few pages of this thread until you cleared this up. Seriously, nice one.

thebigbiffo

bk wrote: »

You are legally required to take 20 days holidays per year, which is 4 weeks, so the actual figures are:

new budget thing you have a minimum wage job
7.65*39*48 = 14,320.80 No Tax
old way
8.65*39*48 = 16,192.80 No Tax

Either way you still aren't paying tax. Of course you are still earning less, but I just want to clarify the point.

if you're working those hours you're legally entitled to your holidays with pay...

ninebeanrows

Biggins wrote: »

This is depressing. In this day and age that after many, many years of school and education, folk still don't understand economics 101.


IF - MASSIVE "IF" - the state was to fall - your €600 or whatever is STILL in your account.
It is still €600 - it might buy feck all as things MIGHT get more crazy costly - but your €600 will STILL be there!
Christ almighty... I despair!

I do believe our deposits upto 100k are save yes.

But to consider that it is a certainty that Ireland won't default is just foolish.

You or I don't know the full debt burden the banks have, Independant economists do and they don't think it is realistic that we can pay this back.

Irish Bond spreads are a indication of the liklihood of default.

Our banks are so saddled in debt they might need to be let go, but obviously the EU will attempt to cut off any possible contagion before they would ever consider a scenario.

However i do believe the IMF/EU would honour all Irish citizens deposits in the event of bank shutdown.

The worst case scenario would be for upto 100k deposits that the banks would shut for a short period of time, and you may not be able to access your funds for a few days, but you would get it back.

Anything over 100k is a different kettle of fish.

FreudianSlippers

bk wrote: »

You are legally required to take 20 days holidays per year, which is 4 weeks, so the actual figures are:

new budget thing you have a minimum wage job
7.65*39*48 = 14,320.80 No Tax
old way
8.65*39*48 = 16,192.80 No Tax

Either way you still aren't paying tax. Of course you are still earning less, but I just want to clarify the point.

Actually theoretically you're right (and actually you're right too) but if they didn't lower minimum wage then it would mean that minimum wage earners after the band is increased would be paying tax, whereas now they will not be paying tax.


Anyway I don't see what the complaint is. Did minimum wage people really think they would make the same amount and everyone else could be ****ed? :mad:
That's ridiculous. They are complaining too and benefit from tax - they should have to contribute.

bk

thebigbiffo wrote: »

if you're working those hours you're legally entitled to your holidays with pay...

You are correct, my bad.

Biggins

Weathercheck wrote: »

I do believe our deposits upto 100k are save yes.

But to consider that it is a certainty that Ireland won't default is just foolish.

You or I don't know the full debt burden the banks have, Independent economists do and they don't think it is realistic that we can pay this back.

Irish Bond spreads are a indication of the liklihood of default.

Our banks are so saddled in debt they might need to be let go, but obviously the EU will attempt to cut off any possible contagion before they would ever consider a scenario.

However i do believe the IMF/EU would honour all Irish citizens deposits in the event of bank shutdown.

The worst case scenario would be for up to 100k deposits that the banks would shut for a short period of time, and you may not be able to access your funds for a few days, but you would get it back.

Anything over 100k is a different kettle of fish.

Indeed.
I might add that those with 100K plus would be clever enough (hopefully) not to have all their savings in the one account.
I would divide it up across a number of banks.
(Thats as well as having funds already abroad in a number of countries banks besides)

sagat2

I'm amazed, people calling for trouble on Saturday, so what happens a few spoilt brats who have been living under their parents wing and contributing f-all run amok in the city centre smashing and thrashing. Who foots the cleanup bill? The rest of the country does. Troublemakers should be met with firm physical resistance and then force the runts to pay their own hospital bills.

ninebeanrows

OisinT wrote: »

Actually theoretically you're right (and actually you're right too) but if they didn't lower minimum wage then it would mean that minimum wage earners after the band is increased would be paying tax, whereas now they will not be paying tax.


Anyway I don't see what the complaint is. Did minimum wage people really think they would make the same amount and everyone else could be ****ed? :mad:
That's ridiculous. They are complaining too and benefit from tax - they should have to contribute.

Your ideal is flawed.

Get somebody at the bottom who is scraping by in life to pay more?

So somebody works 40 hours a week and earns 306 euro. And then what do you suggest, to tax them aswell? Don't be stupid.

Hitting the lowest of the poor in Irish society will only make things worse.

Who wants to go slave away for 300 quid a week when the price of a pint in a pub is a 5 quid.

Shameless.

cgc5483

Mister men wrote: »

I'll be blunt. If you have'nt already get down there tomorrow and get the money out. The country is going to implode.

Right because that exactly what everyone should do to help the situation

You do realise that people being crazy and panicking results in having to pump more and more money into the banks

barbiegirl

sagat2 wrote: »

I'm amazed, people calling for trouble on Saturday, so what happens a few spoilt brats who have been living under their parents wing and contributing f-all run amok in the city centre smashing and thrashing. Who foots the cleanup bill? The rest of the country does. Troublemakers should be met with firm physical resistance and then force the runts to pay their own hospital bills.

Have to agree. I believe strongly in the right to protest and have marched. However I have NO interest in joining with trouble making scum as they wreck the city centre. Thanks very much but I'll pass.
By conducting themselves in a violent manner they are taking away the right of the vast majority who would like to protest, to do so, because they like me don't want to be associated.

molard

i am confused and mad .why will a single person on 55grand pay less tax then a single income household on 55grand.

blueshed

i think i have a way to solve our problem.
the document published today is for sale at 15eueo ( i kid you not )
there is about 1 billion people in China.
if we could get every person in China to buy a copy we would raise
15billion euro...............

its a little GREEN BOOK.
where have i seen a little green book before that was a bible for the destruction
of the country.

dr.bollocko

Mister men wrote: »

I'll be blunt. If you have'nt already get down there tomorrow and get the money out. The country is going to implode.

Lets try and avoid this kind of ill informed rabble rousing nonsense like the above for the remainder of this thread please folks.

Penn

cgc5483 wrote: »

Right because that exactly what everyone should do to help the situation

You do realise that people being crazy and panicking results in having to pump more and more money into the banks

Exactly. Wasn't that what happened with Northern Rock in England? Everybody panicked and tried to withdraw all their money, but because the bank had lent money out, they didn't have enough for the amount trying to withdraw their savings.

phasers

So this property tax is to fund local government?

South Dublin CC can kiss my ass, they already overcharge my for my bins.

Overall this plan totally sucks, it's ridiculously vague.

Lenihan just said that retired ministers will get severely reduced public pensions. Yeah right.

The fact that no third income tax rate band was introduced is pissing me off, people earning €100,000+ per year should be on a higher rate.

th3 s1aught3r

sagat2 wrote: »

I'm amazed, people calling for trouble on Saturday, so what happens a few spoilt brats who have been living under their parents wing and contributing f-all run amok in the city centre smashing and thrashing. Who foots the cleanup bill? The rest of the country does. Troublemakers should be met with firm physical resistance and then force the runts to pay their own hospital bills.

I am amazed at the apathy of the Irish people. Is there XFactor on Saturday? be no one at the protest I suppose so

The government and the IMF are saying to you
"Take your medicine, its all your fault"

Cookie_Monster

molard wrote: »

i am confused and mad .why will a single person on 55grand pay less tax then a single income household on 55grand.

that may be the case but they also take a lot less from the gov in childcare, and all the other costs associated with families. and would tend to spend more on higher VAT items too