Mr Slow: The Return

Mr Slow

Brianderunner wrote: »

Did i pinpoint your target then? No need to run DCM if your serious about it. Could go for a marathon in the spring then.

No, but it's on the radar now!

I'm going to start with the Celbridge 5k and see what I can shave off of my 5k time.

RacoonQueen

There's a blatantly obvious goal. One for a distance of say 5k?

Edit: See, I'm so clever :cool:

RayCun

That's only a few weeks away though - you should pick a goal race a couple of months from now so you can do a proper spell of training for it.

Mr Slow

RacoonQueen wrote: »

There's a blatantly obvious goal. One for a distance of say 5k?

Edit: See, I'm so clever :cool:

Hello? I said I'm starting with! :rolleyes: In order to get an accurate 5k time from which to base any training for any distance going forward. Jeez

RayCun

ah, Rathfarnham :pac:

Mr Slow

RayCun wrote: »

ah, Rathfarnham :pac:

Nope, I told you the boss was running that one! Unless your offer to babysit stands?

Woddle

Mr Slow wrote: »

Nope, I told you the boss was running that one!

My wife will hopefully be doing this one aswell.
Should we setup a market to see who crosses the line first

RayCun

I'm sure Meno would be delighted to do it

Mr Slow

Woddle wrote: »

My wife will hopefully be doing this one aswell.
Should we setup a market to see who crosses the line first

I'd need to see recent race times before committing to that.

RayCun wrote: »

I'm sure Meno would be delighted to do it

Ha, I wouldn't leave him to look after Chinguetti's cat!

menoscemo

RayCun wrote: »

I'm sure Meno would be delighted to do it

I'll be in Berlin Ray.

Anyway, MrSlow, wise up.
You know yourself; following a marathon programme will bring all your times down. I went on a 2 month 5-10k progarmme :rolleyes: But it was just basically an excuse to do less miles and I didn't improve as much as I would have doing a proper marathon programme, in fact i got fat and probably went backwards.

Don't use this 'shorter stuff' as an excuse not to put the miles/work in....

jcsmum

Mr Slow wrote: »

I woke up this morning thinking that I wasn't pushed about running DCM, it may pass but watch this space.

:eek: (although I do kinda understand your logic behind this)
The LSRs just won't be the same! sniff sniff.....

RacoonQueen

menoscemo wrote: »

I'll be in Berlin Ray.

Anyway, MrSlow, wise up.
You know yourself; following a marathon programme will bring all your times down. I went on a 2 month 5-10k progarmme :rolleyes: But it was just basically an excuse to do less miles and I didn't improve as much as I would have doing a proper marathon programme, in fact i got fat and probably went backwards.

That's bullsh*t, if the secret to running faster was to just do marathon training surely all 5k and 10k athletes would be doing it...

It's generally a completely different type of training, similar amount of miles with different types of intensity. 10k runners train bloody hard, not a chance I'd do it all year round, most of my 10k programme scared the bejaysus out of me.

Brianderunner

RacoonQueen wrote: »

That's bullsh*t, if the secret to running faster was to just do marathon training surely all 5k and 10k athletes would be doing it...

It's generally a completely different type of training, similar amount of miles with different types of intensity. 10k runners train bloody hard, not a chance I'd do it all year round, most of my 10k programme scared the bejaysus out of me.

But to achieve your potential at 5k/10k you need to be doing 50-60 miles per week anyway, which just happens to be what we do for marathon training. We are arguably selling ourselves short when we do 30-40 mpw for 10k's.

RacoonQueen

Brianderunner wrote: »

But to achieve your potential at 5k/10k you need to be doing 50-60 miles per week anyway, which just happens to be what we do for marathon training. We are arguably selling ourselves short when we do 30-40 mpw for 10k's.

A lot of 10k 'plans' would have more than 40 mpw in them though. The generic crap you get on the net might have 30-40 mpw but your average good 10k runner is doing more than that and would still never even consider a marathon.

menoscemo

RacoonQueen wrote: »

That's bullsh*t, if the secret to running faster was to just do marathon training surely all 5k and 10k athletes would be doing it...

It's generally a completely different type of training, similar amount of miles with different types of intensity. 10k runners train bloody hard, not a chance I'd do it all year round, most of my 10k programme scared the bejaysus out of me.

Brianderunner wrote: »

But to achieve your potential at 5k/10k you need to be doing 50-60 miles per week anyway, which just happens to be what we do for marathon training. We are arguably selling ourselves short when we do 30-40 mpw for 10k's.

Exactly, Brian's point is exactly what I was trying to say. That's why I said 'don't use the 5k/10k training idea as a reason to put in less miles/work. I know I did.
If anything to do 5k/10k training properly, it will be harder than marathon training. It will certainly require you running just as much as If you were in marathon training. If you don't like the idea of that, and were intending on dropping mileage to 20-30/week, well you'd be better off doing 50-60 a week at a lower intensity (marathon training) in my opinion....

menoscemo

RacoonQueen wrote: »

A lot of 10k 'plans' would have more than 40 mpw in them though. The generic crap you get on the net might have 30-40 mpw but your average good 10k runner is doing more than that and would still never even consider a marathon.

Yes but I am pretty sure that Mr Slow was intending on following one of those 'generic crap' plans off the net. He doesn't have a coach like.

My Point is, do the 5k-10k training fine- but do it right. Get doing 40+ miles a week with several speed sessions and I will certainly not criticise it. I just get a feeling that that is not what Mr Slow meant when he said about 'concentrating on the shorter stuff'.

RayCun

But if you have limited time available to run - which may be the case with mrslow - you can follow a decent 10k plan that will fit that better than a decent marathon plan. The key sessions are shorter.
Off the top of my head, the Pfitziger 5k plans are <25mpw, 25-45mpw, and 45<. The 10k plans start at <35mpw. But the starter marathon plan is <55mpw. And that marathon plan contains a lot of slow miles, while the 5k and 10k plans have more VO2 and Tempo running.

Mr Slow

menoscemo wrote: »

Yes but I am pretty sure that Mr Slow was intending on following one of those 'generic crap' plans off the net. He doesn't have a coach like.

Why are you sure of that? Did I do that for Cork?

I'll just remind ya'll that I am contemplating the rest of the year, no decision has been made yet.:)

menoscemo

Mr Slow wrote: »

Why are you sure of that? Did I do that for Cork?

Nope, but you didn't even follow the P&D 55 mpw programme for Cork Correctly. If I recall correctly you skiped all the recovery runs and maxed out at 45 mpw?

Mr Slow

menoscemo wrote: »

Nope, but you didn't even follow the P&D 55 mpw programme for Cork Correctly. If I recall correctly you skiped all the recovery runs and maxed out at 45 mpw?

What has that got to do with picking a random plan from the internet?

Think back, when I was contemplating Cork, you advised me to drop the midweek LSR. I dropped the recovery runs instead so as not to make a leap in mileage, I trained for 3:45 and finished in 3:43 - job done!

menoscemo

Mr Slow wrote: »

What has that got to do with picking a random plan from the internet?

Think back, when I was contemplating Cork, you advised me to drop the midweek LSR. I dropped the recovery runs instead so as not to make a leap in mileage, I trained for 3:45 and finished in 3:43 - job done!

I don't remember advising you to drop the midweek long run....I may have said you were running them too fast...
All I'm saying is you have made great improvements this year, (IMO) if you want to continue to improve, you are going to have to keep your mileage up, certainly in the 40-50mpw range and maybe up towards 60. You can call this 5k, 10k HM or even marathon training, whatever, (it doesn't really matter what you dress it up as) but to continue to improve across all distancesyou have to put the miles in.

*(awaits 'less is more' post from chinguetti :pac:)*

Mr Slow

menoscemo wrote: »

All I'm saying is you have made great improvements this year, (IMO) if you want to continue to improve, you are going to have to keep your mileage up, certainly in the 40-50mpw range and maybe up towards 60. You can call this 5k, 10k HM or even marathon training, whatever, (it doesn't really matter what you dress it up as) but to continue to improve across all distancesyou have to put the miles in.

*(awaits 'less is more' post from chinguetti :pac:)*

Not actually what you said but you're right about the mileage, I'll decide what direction to go in over the next few weeks, in the mean time I'll be training as if DCM is the plan.

chinguetti

Well as i've been mentioned... here's my 5 cent.

Many years ago i read that Herb Elliott's coach used to make Elliott run along the beach for miles and then force him into the dunes and make him run until he couldn't move. He won an Olympic medal at 1500m because he felt no one could outlast him when the push came.

Therefore if you want to run a 5k, train for a 10k. Same for any distance up to 26.2 miles cause when you think you can't go any more, you know that you can.

However in my mind, less is indeed more for a marathon plan esp if you're prone to injury like me.

Mr S [redacted]. But i'ld do the marathon for one reason. You'll have no pressure on yourself apart from finishing and will learn alot that you can use for a sub 3.30 when you decide to go for it. Also two years ago, would you ever think that you would do a marathon cause you know you can. Tis a fair achievement.

Mr Slow

chinguetti wrote: »

Mr S, [redacted]. But i'ld do the marathon for one reason. You'll have no pressure on yourself apart from finishing and will learn alot that you can use for a sub 3.30 when you decide to go for it. Also two years ago, would you ever think that you would do a marathon cause you know you can. Tis a fair achievement.

Admitting that must be a bitter pill to swallow my friend.;)

As always you speak with wisdom in a non condescending manner, making the advicee think, rather than get their back up.:D

Mr Slow

Nice and warm today, perfect for a quick jog.

6.5 miles in 49:41, average pace 7:39.

digger2d2

Mr Slow wrote: »

Admitting that must be a bitter pill to swallow my friend.;)

As always you speak with wisdom in a non condescending manner, making the advicee think, rather than get their back up.:D

It's the cat talking!

RayCun

ecoli

Have to say this is a pretty interesting coverstion and I think alot of people are making alot of good points

[redacted]the difference between training for 5k - marathon is not the difference in mileage but the emphasis of training different aspects.

One marathon runner I know went from 120 mile weeks for the marathon down to 100 miles after that when he was training for 5k-10k and was PBing in the mile and shorter distances also. The mileage didnt change too much rather the emphasis of the mileage.

With the shorter distances the high mileage aids recovery from quality work to allow you to do more where as in the longer distances its building the aerobic endurance to sustain efforts.

Arthur Lydiard revolutionised training in the 60s by bringing in the notion that regardless of the distance all athletes need to have marathon conditioning. At the 1960s Olympics he had three of his athletes medal; gold in the 800; gold in the 5000 and bronze in the marathon. The only difference in their training was coming into the competition stage of their training before that all were based on marathon conditioning.

chinguetti is right though sometimes injury can hamper high mileage so it is individual to what a runner can cope with without breaking down

Mr Slow

ecoli wrote: »

[redacted]

Not something one sees very often.:D

ecoli

Mr Slow wrote: »

Not something one sees very often.:D

Shhh.... Its hidden away in the training logs so hopefully not too many we see:p