No Galway Bypass before 2016, thanks to Frank Fahey as always.

Sponge Bob

The Department of Transport has said that (absent a directive from the IMF) the Tuam - Gort scheme Motorway scheme should start next year 2011.

http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=257

However the Galway Bypass will not start in 2011 or 2012 or 2013. This is abundantly clear form that announcement. The Chairman of the Dáil Committee on Transport, Frank Fahey, has been deafeningly silent on the missing Galway Bypass.

As it cannot start until earliest 2014 and as schemes like this take 2 years to build, minimum, it cannot open before 2016. Thanks Frank, you have been a great help as always.

Oh and I forgot, Tuam - Athenry will be tolled from what I hear. Where is that Claregalway Bypass that has been in YOUR Programme for government for the last 3 and a half years Frank ???

And don't think I forgot this shameless self important bilge in the Advertiser a little over two years ago.

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/2871

The new road from Oranmore to Tuam will be a reality by 2010, it was announced this week. The tender process will start in early 2009 and construction will start within two years.

Dep Fahey said the introduction of the non-tolled PPP funding mechanism has resulted in a “definite starting date” from the NRA. “In effect this means that the process will be even faster that the Galway to Dublin roadway.”


The NRA believes the Oranmore to Tuam motorway will take 80 per cent of the traffic out of Claregalway, “significantly reducing the congestion in the village”.


The Claregalway inner relief road will also proceed through the planning stage but will be subject to the local funding contribution from Galway County Council.

JohnCleary

Yay!

Sponge Bob

It is little known but a special act was enacted this year to deal with the problem of the compulsory purchase orders expiring after a time, no more than 5 years. It was enacted because of the Galway Bypass. The COMPULSORY PURCHASE ORDERS (EXTENSION OF
TIME LIMITS) ACT 2010 it is called.

Ironically it means that the land for the Galway Bypass may have to be procured at December 2006 prices...that being the time when the CPO was published. Some interests between the Moycullen Road and the Airport could be quite happy with this.

Frank lives in Menlo but is not set to benefit in any way seeing as he owns none of the land in question. Let me be quite clear about that. Frank naturally owns no options on any such land either and will not benefit materially in any way.

http://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2010-07-07.920.0

Where judicial review proceedings are taken the likely timeframe for reaching a conclusion means that the CPO notices to treat may expire before the legal action concludes. The difficulty this presents is that work undertaken and expense incurred by local authorities on schemes that go into judicial review and are subsequently given the go-ahead will then be redundant because the prescribed time period for the CPO has expired. Such a situation may arise if this Bill is not enacted today.

The project involved is the Galway city outer bypass where, as the result of a referral to the European Court of Justice arising from a challenge to the approval by An Bord Pleanála of the road scheme, the CPO 18-month limit will expire at midnight. The current section 217(6) makes no allowance for the possibility of such legal challenges and, as a consequence, fails to factor in a holding provision that would maintain the validity of a CPO approval beyond the fixed 18-month period in circumstances where such challenges arise.

Under the current legislation it is open to a county council to make a new CPO, with all the costs and effort that would entail, to replace a lapsed CPO once the outcome of the legal challenge is finally determined. Apart from the waste of resources and duplication of effort involved, the new CPO would have to comply with all standard legal requirements, including publication of notices, availability for inspection by the public, objection procedures with a minimum period of six weeks allowed for making objections, submission of the CPO to An Bord Pleanála, holding of an oral hearing and determination of the matter by the board.

The process associated with a new CPO could easily take a year or more to complete, with obvious implications for the timeline attaching to the advancement and construction of the road scheme and also in respect of additional costs. As the Bill providing for the amendment to section 217 of the Planning and Development Act will not be enacted in time to deal with the lapse of the Galway CPO notices to treat, a Bill has been prepared that contains the relevant provision from the proposed Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill. This will resolve the situation where court proceedings lead to the expiry of local authority CPOs before a decision is reached. It will mean that the CPOs in the case of the Galway city outer bypass project will be extended to the earlier of 30 days after the conclusion of the legal proceedings or 18 months after the expiry of the initial 18-month period.

Seems like a good idea if there are intractable legal issues, but this act was rammed through the Dáil in an hour last July.

Simon Coveney rose.

It is not good practice, as the Minister probably will accept, to introduce legislation the Opposition does not have an opportunity to amend. While Opposition Members will comment on it, essentially it is being driven through in the space of an hour or so this evening.

He went on

However, I wish to ask a number of questions on this Bill. First, I do not understand the reason the Minister for Transport is taking this Bill and not the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. It proposes to bring forward a section of the Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill that is going through the Oireachtas at present and which is almost finalised. Consequently, I do not understand the reason the Department of Transport is taking responsibility for it this evening. I understand its purpose is to facilitate a particular road project, namely, the Galway city outer bypass that, as far as I am aware, my party strongly supports. However, I do not understand the reason the Department that at present is dealing with this issue in planning law is not taking this Bill.

Gormley was maybe on holidays so maybe Fahey and Dempsey staged a coup on the department of the environment while he was away, I dunno.

Let me put it this way. The extra 'costs' of 'freezing' CPOs at 2006 prices around Galway City, implicit in this piece of legislation, will probably be greater than running the entire planning process from scratch after it comes back from Europe circ 2012 and we have plenty of time to do that after the court case in Europe seeing as there is no money to build the damn thing till 2015 earliest.

Padraig McCormack lepped up next. I cannot disagree with his analysis to be honest.

However, I both firmly believe and predict that at the end of 18 months, it will not make any difference because I do not expect any work to be done on this road. Why is this Bill being introduced at the last minute, when it has been known for the past 18 months that the CPO would expire within 18 months? Now, within four hours of the deadline for extending the time, Members are rushing a Bill through the Dáil. I believe this is being done as a face-saving measure for Deputy Fahey, who, like myself, is a strong supporter of the Galway city outer bypass road.

When the list of suspended projects appeared in yesterday’s newspapers, it was stated that the NRA was abandoning this project. This Bill really acts as camouflage to pretend there will be a further 18 months in which to decide on the project. That period will probably extend beyond the next election, after which it will be up to the new Government as to whether it will be able to fund the proposed road.

McCormack added.

The proposed Galway city outer bypass has been an ongoing project for the past 12 years, which encompasses the full lifetime of Fianna Fáil’s participation in government. The most favourable route for the road was established nine years ago in 2001, at least three years before any part of that corridor was designated as a national heritage area. The designation is now being used as an excuse for stalling the building of the bypass road for the past ten years. There is no will on the part of the Government, especially the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, whom I am surprised is absent, to have the road built. In fact, at all times the Green Party has opposed the building of the road. Before the current Green Party Senator from Galway, former councillor, Senator Ó Brolcháin, lost his seat on the city council he used his position as mayor to object to the bypass on mayoral notepaper to An Bord Pleanála. Despite the objection of the Green Party, An Bord Pleanála granted permission for the first phase of the road from Doughiska to Bushy Park on the N59 Moycullen road.

The problem is not national heritage areas but a candidate SAC which predates 2001 but should have been declared a full SAC ...or nothing ...long ago....maybe as early as 2004.

McCormack finished

Up to €20 million has already been spent on planning the road and carrying out environmental tests yet not a sod has been dug on the road yet. It is most unlikely that a sod will be turned on the road in the next 18 months. Whether the High Court or the next Government decide to proceed with the road it is a doubtful project. We are only engaging in shadow boxing in having the CPOs extended. It is only a matter of saving face so that certain people in a Government party can claim the project is not dead and that it is really still alive when it is not alive at all. Everyone in Galway knows that at this stage.

Frank would never have gotten Dempsey to ram an Act through the Dáil of a July evening to save his political skin, surely not. McCormack must have been talking about someone else.

I will leave the last word from that debate to Joe Costello

We are being asked at the 11th hour, almost the 12th, to accept all Stages of the legislation in an hour and 20 minutes. We know from experience that does not work and that there are nearly always flaws in rushed legislation. Legislation rushed through both Houses after 8 p.m. on the same day could very well end up being problematic.

Follow the money would be my advice Joe

po0k

Great thread, tempted to make a sticky for a while.

Looking at the figures, while primary route spending drops massively, the secondary route maintenance will be only be trimmed and public transport spending will rise for the next two years.

I hope cyclelanes and footpaths are included in any road maintenance/widening operations.
While narrow boreens flanked by stone walls look charming on a postcard, trying to walk or cycle on alot of roads is a deathwish.
Education, Enforcement and Engineering. 2 cars and a pedestrian at the apex of a narrow bend won't go, safety cameras or not.

sgthighway

po0k wrote: »

Great thread, tempted to make a sticky for a while.

-1

Sponge Bob

po0k wrote: »

Great thread, tempted to make a sticky for a while.

Looking at the figures, while primary route spending drops massively, the secondary route maintenance will be only be trimmed and public transport spending will rise for the next two years.

They would anyway seeing as they are mainly upgraded to Motorway already.

I hope cyclelanes and footpaths are included in any road maintenance/widening operations.

Cycle lanes are only de riguer on "tourist" routes such as the road scheme proposed from Oughterard to (near enough) Clifden and with Common Agriculture Policy money available to pay for much/most ( unsure which) of it. It is a lot more likely to be built in the next few years than the Galway Bypass is. There is a snifter of the design standard a few miles east of Clifden that you could peruse at your leisure.

I recommend getting a car coz some mad hoor will surely splatter you at Oughterard Golf club if you take a bicycle to check it out.

As yet there are no new rules of the road about bicycles and peds sharing these offset lanes.

But they exist....if only in a fragment of Connemara.

po0k

Sponge Bob wrote: »

They would anyway seeing as they are mainly upgraded to Motorway already.

Yes.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Cycle lanes are only de riguer on "tourist" routes such as the road scheme proposed from Oughterard to (near enough) Clifden and with Common Agriculture Policy money available to pay for much/most ( unsure which) of it. It is a lot more likely to be built in the next few years than the Galway Bypass is. There is a snifter of the design standard a few miles east of Clifden that you could peruse at your leisure.

I recommend getting a car coz some mad hoor will surely splatter you at Oughterard Golf club if you take a bicycle to check it out.

As yet there are no new rules of the road about bicycles and peds sharing these offset lanes.

But they exist....if only in a fragment of Connemara.

If the paths by Clifden have been there since July, I *may* have gone past them. Not familiar with that area though, so might have been paying more attention to the road at the time.
Why there hasn't been a CPO to take a few feet off the golf course is beyond me. Too many councillors on the fairway I guess.

ilovesleep

Nevermind about roads for now. The country is going down the toilet. Go to dublin on saturday and protest. we'll be lucky if we have any sort of a country to live in in a few years time. ireland is sinking

snubbleste

Everytime I hear Frank on the airwaves, my blood pressure rises and I just get this burning desire to crumple something.
He's on the radio every day at the minute given that he knows (his) the seat is in danger with an election on the horizon.

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/33784

Fianna Fáil is almost certain to be reduced to just one seat out of five in Galway West after the next General Election as Dep Frank Fahey has admitted that he is almost certain to lose his seat.

Fianna Fáil is likely to run three candidates in the constituency at the next election - The Minister for Social Protection Éamon Ó Cuív, Dep Frank Fahey, and councillor Michael J Crowe - but it faces bearing the wrath of the public, enraged by the Government’s mismanagement of the economy.

On Monday, Taoiseach Brian Cowen said he would dissolve the Dáil should the Budget be passed on December 7. Given that the Social Welfare Bill and the Finance Bill must be passed in January, and a three-week notice given before polling day, it is likely to be the end of February before the election is held.

While most commentators agree that Minister Ó Cuív is on course to top the poll, there has been intense speculation over how Dep Fahey and, assuming he runs, Mayor Crowe would fair.

However Dep Fahey has probably laid much of that speculation to rest this week by admitting he fears he will not to be re-elected.

“I have no illusions that I will lose my seat,” Dep Fahey told the Galway Advertiser. “If the opinion polls are correct, and based on the figures they are showing, it is very likely Fianna Fáil may come back with only one seat in Galway West with Éamon Ó Cuív.”

Fianna Fáil normally never contemplates defeat, but such is the political climate right now that Dep Fahey admitted that the Government will lose the next election. “There is going to be a change of government and Fine Gael and Labour are going to be in power after the next election,” he said.

Dep Fahey said the important task now must be the passing of the Budget and the Four Year Plan, which was announced yesterday afternoon - although he acknowledges that supporting these harsh measures will play a major role in costing him his seat.

“Fianna Fáil now has to do the right thing irrespective of the consequences for the party. I am prepared to stand up and back the measures in the Budget and the Four Year Plan and I know it will cost me votes and may even lose me my seat. But I will still fight to retain it and I have worked hard for this constituency.”

Dep Fahey argues that passing the Budget and the Four Year Plan is the essential first step in the State’s economic recovery.

“Given what has happened in the bond markets, with our credit rating being downgraded, and the serious situation with the banks, it is important we get this passed,” he said.

With the Government’s wafer thin majority, the instability of relying on Independents, and the possibly of a revolt in the Fianna Fáil backbenches, there is a possibility that the Budget could be defeated. However Dep Fahey said opposing the Budget would be an act of “economic treason”.

“Any kind of instability will weaken the country further and in a dramatic way, so everyone in politics has an important responsibility to pass these measures,” he said, “but I am confident it will be passed. I think it would be economic treason if it wasn’t. There is no other option. The fundamental interests of this country are at stake.”

Dep Fahey also called on Fine Gael and Labour to “act responsibly” over their response to the Budget

Some12

So the Tuam to Athenry motorway will be tolled. I wasn't expecting that.

I live in Tuam and work in Galway so I won't be taking that road anyway. It's out of the way and more mileage.

Sure wish they would bypass Claregalway but that's too logical a move for
this set of incompetent politicians to consider.

po0k

Gombeen wrote:

“I have no illusions that I will lose my seat,” Dep Fahey told the Galway Advertiser. “If the opinion polls are correct, and based on the figures they are showing, it is very likely Fianna Fáil may come back with only one seat in Galway West with Éamon Ó Cuív.”

s/lose/keep/ surely?
Please excuse the convoluted structure here, but to not have an illusion that you will lose your seat implies that you will be retaining it.
Fnck off and die in a ditch before I hunt you for your meat you wastrel.

KevR

Tolling the M17 Tuam-Athenry is stupid. It's a more indirect route than the N17 and anyone who uses the M17 will have to deal with the Doughiska/Briarhill nightmare (until such time as the Galway Bypass is built). It won't be worth anyone's while using the M17 if it's tolled, especially not commuter traffic.

I personally wouldn't be against a toll on the M18. I'm not too sure where would be the best location; it shouldn't be too close to Galway/Rathmorrissey because most commuters wouldn't use the road. The toll should be roughly half way between Galway and Limerick so it's mainly long distance inter-city traffic that has to pay. I certainly wouldn't mind paying €1.90 if I was driving all the way to Shannon or Limerick on a motorway.

The setup on the M6 works really well IMO. Short distance commuters from Oranmore, Athenry and Loughrea don't have to pay. Anyone commuting long distance from the likes of Ballinasloe or Athlone and anyone travelling inter-city (Galway-Dublin) has to pay. I drive Galway-Athlone everyday and don't mind paying the toll because I'm getting roughly 80km of motorway. If I was commuting to Galway from Loughrea or Athenry and the toll was close to Galway, no way would I pay it everyday.

JaneAusten

Friends, regardless of the ultimate fate of Mr Fahey, it is to be hoped that this bypass will never be built as originally conceived.
It is primarily a land developers scheme with little consideration for the practical effects on traffic.
Remember, the NRA's own figures indicate a decrease of 25% of traffic (at best) on the existing network if it were to be built.
We have been spun the line that this decrease would then permit other 'visionary' schemes to be implemented- i.e. Bus Lanes, Gluas, Cycle lanes, Park n Ride etc.
Well. guess what - the traffic volumes have already decreased by at least 20% thanks to our current recession and I don't see any sign of progress.

What Galway really needs is a vision of how it is to grow and develop. Then we can decide the infrastructure that's required.

We're in the mess we're in because Galway allowed the progress of the city to be decided by property developers and their cronies. The Bay and Lough Corrib didn't suddenly appear from nowhere to form a bottleneck. We should have planned the city accordingly.

KevR

JaneAusten wrote: »

Friends, regardless of the ultimate fate of Mr Fahey, it is to be hoped that this bypass will never be built as originally conceived.
It is primarily a land developers scheme with little consideration for the practical effects on traffic.
Remember, the NRA's own figures indicate a decrease of 25% of traffic (at best) on the existing network if it were to be built.
We have been spun the line that this decrease would then permit other 'visionary' schemes to be implemented- i.e. Bus Lanes, Gluas, Cycle lanes, Park n Ride etc.
Well. guess what - the traffic volumes have already decreased by at least 20% thanks to our current recession and I don't see any sign of progress.

What Galway really needs is a vision of how it is to grow and develop. Then we can decide the infrastructure that's required.

We're in the mess we're in because Galway allowed the progress of the city to be decided by property developers and their cronies. The Bay and Lough Corrib didn't suddenly appear from nowhere to form a bottleneck. We should have planned the city accordingly.

I would love to see these figures..........

?Cee?view

JaneAusten wrote: »

Friends, regardless of the ultimate fate of Mr Fahey, it is to be hoped that this bypass will never be built as originally conceived.
It is primarily a land developers scheme with little consideration for the practical effects on traffic.

Do you actually believe this politically inspired crap? Populist nonsense - blame everything on the "developers".

The road is needed for the ordinary joe soaps of Galway to be able to get from East to West and vice versa because the existing road structure was largely planned in medieval times.

Various fools (particularly O'Brolchain who had the gall when he was actually elected to something, to abuse his position by objecting to the bypass on Council headed paper) have conspired to ensure that this road is delayed indefinitely.

I couldn't give a toss about developers, Fianna Fail, the Green twats or any of those types. Galway people need Galway to have a proper modern infrastructure so that when recovery happens we won't continue to be ignored by investors who would bring employment but are scared away by our gridlock.

?Cee?view

KevR wrote: »

I would love to see these figures..........

You might be waiting a while

Sponge Bob

JaneAusten wrote: »

We're in the mess we're in because Galway allowed the progress of the city to be decided by property developers and their cronies. The Bay and Lough Corrib didn't suddenly appear from nowhere to form a bottleneck. We should have planned the city accordingly.

Very true, and now for years we needed a bypass to take the traffic that NEED not go into Galway out of it. That will then free up roadspace for other projects like bus lanes, cycle lanes etc.

galwaytt

JaneAusten wrote: »

The Bay and Lough Corrib didn't suddenly appear from nowhere to form a bottleneck. We should have planned the city accordingly.

What nonsense. Back about 11 yrs ago, at a public meeting regarding the City Development Plan, I made an observation from the floor, that the City Council had rejected PP for a new crane, for the unloading of ships, and cement facility, in the Docks, on the grounds that it was 'not in keeping' with the development plan for the area. You read that correctly: unloading ships was not in keeping with the activity of a .....Docks. WTF are these assholes ? :mad: Anyway, I said then, and your comment gives me good cause to repeat what I said then....if we had the same sort of 'funnel vision' back in Norman times/whatever, then the City would never have built a Docks, or a Castle (say, Lynch's), the Cathedral (either of them...)......but now we're governed my muppet's, who listen to muppet's. And they should have foreseen the motor car and made Quay Street wider....and wouldn't have put Ceannt station at the end of a bridge.......:rolleyes:

KevR wrote: »

I would love to see these figures..........

+1

churchview wrote: »

The road is needed for the ordinary joe soaps of Galway to be able to get from East to West and vice versa because the existing road structure was largely planned in medieval times................... Galway people need Galway to have a proper modern infrastructure so that when recovery happens we won't continue to be ignored by investors who would bring employment but are scared away by our gridlock.

churchview wrote: »

You might be waiting a while

...longer than the time it takes to get a bypass, I'd wager......

galwaytt

galwaytt wrote: »

and wouldn't have put Ceannt station at the end of a bridge.......:rolleyes:

The original plan was to build it in Renmore (well outside town) and make people walk in.

A priest campaigned for the embankment and bridge to be built.

Sponge Bob

Deleted User wrote: »

A priest campaigned for the embankment and bridge to be built.

Lucky there were no greens in Galway back then or the shagging thing would have terminated in Oranmore

?Cee?view

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Lucky there were no greens in Galway back then or the shagging thing would have terminated in Oranmore

with a bike lane from Oranmore to Galway! Integrated transport planning Green/Vegetable Party style; what more would anyone want?


Anyway, we now have the "Bullet" (copyright Green Party 2010) train from Galway to Dublin. Only in their world can you drive a car faster than the said bullet!

Sponge Bob

churchview wrote: »

Anyway, we now have the "Bullet" (copyright Green Party 2010) train from Galway to Dublin. Only in their world can you drive a car faster than the said bullet!

I forgot about that innumerate fool and his "bullet train" . 2 hours and 15 minutes journey time and about 10 mins of stops included means 2 hours and 5 minutes travel time to Dublin = 125 minutes

125 mins to do c 125 Miles is an average speeed of 60 Miles an hour. Only a bicycle wearer would consider that to be a "bullet" speed.

My mother would manage a higher speed than that.

http://www.greenparty.ie/news/latest_news/new_morning_bullet_train_from_galway_to_dublin

New morning ‘bullet train’ from Galway to Dublin Issued: 09 November 2010 Statement by Niall Ó Brolcháin “

?Cee?view

60 miles an hour. That's probably Green Bullet speed, where the bullets are tasteless, Carbon Friendly and harmless to all life including ickle bunnykins.

These fools should stick to gardening and growing sweet pea, and let people who know what they're on about run things.

Also interesting to see that Bus Eireann have launched a new express BUS service from Limerick to Galway (which runs on roads Green Party), which is significantly faster than that new white elephant Western Rail Corridor which was foisted on us by nutjobs who appeal to their tiny minority of support to the detriment of the rest of us.

citycentre

JaneAusten wrote: »

Friends, regardless of the ultimate fate of Mr Fahey, it is to be hoped that this bypass will never be built as originally conceived.
It is primarily a land developers scheme with little consideration for the practical effects on traffic.
Remember, the NRA's own figures indicate a decrease of 25% of traffic (at best) on the existing network if it were to be built.
We have been spun the line that this decrease would then permit other 'visionary' schemes to be implemented- i.e. Bus Lanes, Gluas, Cycle lanes, Park n Ride etc.
Well. guess what - the traffic volumes have already decreased by at least 20% thanks to our current recession and I don't see any sign of progress.

What Galway really needs is a vision of how it is to grow and develop. Then we can decide the infrastructure that's required.

We're in the mess we're in because Galway allowed the progress of the city to be decided by property developers and their cronies. The Bay and Lough Corrib didn't suddenly appear from nowhere to form a bottleneck. We should have planned the city accordingly.

What a load of nonsense. The Greens will really say anything to make their purely idealistic argument against the bypass stack up. Pure crusty logic. Anyone with even an ounce of common sense knows that this city is a traffic nightmare and the funnelling of all traffic to and from the entire Connemara region through the city centre is the primary cause of it. Galways roads will never have the capacity to accommodate any form of decent public transport or light rail until this fundamental problem is solved.

We should demand the start of the process to build the eastern section immediately. It has FULL planning permission from the M6 to the Moycullen Road. Hopefully by the time it's almost finished the NRA will have sorted out the utter mess they made of the application for the western half.

Sponge Bob

For clarity. The Eastern section is stuck in the European Court system ( Bushypark-Airport) the Western section cannot proceed absent a redesign.

Not a penny has been spent on that redesign which would affect the section from around Bushypark- Barna Golf Club only even though the decision which made the redesign necessary came in early December 2008. Fahey did not get a penny allocated for this work in 2009 or 2010.

However if the Eastern Section comes back from Brussels with an all clear in 2011 there is no reason it cannot proceed.

citycentre

Sweetman and that NIMBY "Hands Across The Corrib" group should be ashamed of themselves for holding up the start of the eastern section by at least two years. It's a pity there was no recourse to some sort of local referendum to overrule all the legal nonsense that will achieve nothing but line the pockets of lawyers. The bypass has to happen, I believe the majority of people in Galway agree and it's a disgrace that a project of such importance to the city and region can be derailed by a few idiots with nothing better to be doing.