Class Discipline

amacca

Fuinseog wrote: »

they should be, but they are not. the last thing a principal wants is agro from parents especially over a 'personality clash' (where the pupil is unruly but tells a different tale at home).

yup, that's about the size of it. That sort of weakness, desire to brush things under the carpet is what leads to a lot of the persistent minor discipline problems imo...but maybe I'm being unrealistic

the phrase "personality clash" was usually used when certain pupils refused to behave, do homework, stop talking, stop disrupting others and then got into a tantrum when said teacher insisted they behave themselves and stop disrupting others it then became a "personality clash"

on the rare occasion I had it, I used to run with it and say that yes, it is a personality clash

eg:

your child's personality is that of a spoilt, uninterested, lazy, immature teenager and while this is not all that uncommon or unusual this is not an environment where it can (but is in a lot of cases it seems) be tolerated as their are many more who do not have such a personality and want to be allowed do their work in a reltively calm, ordered environment (not necessarily devoid of enjoyment or spontaneity mind) and therefore they should learn to modify these parts of their personality so they can function in the real world. If thats not possible then perhaps they require the kind of help we cannot offer here and are not really qualified to in any event.

the vast majority of this small minority generally toe the line when confronted with immediate effective intervention in my experience and its an awful pity for themselves as well as everyone else they don't meet it sooner in life

Fuinseog wrote: »

guidelines from the department of ed regarding discipline are unrealistic to a laughable extent. they do not want to know, the principal does not want to know and the teacher can sink or swim.

true...and such a pity. A lot of people have an unnecessarily difficult environment to work in because of this and a lot of reasonable decent students miss out on so much because the teacher is left to implement either bribery or crowd control just to get 10 minutes of a 40 minute class where any useful work is done....this being a best case scenario in some cases

I for one think it is time it was tackled along with anti-social behaviour etc but I'm not holding my breath

implausible

spurious wrote: »

In our school, if someone is stopping the others from learning, or stopping the teacher from doing their work, they are sent home, to return with a parent.

If they continue, the parent will be asked to sit outside the classroom door, ready to be called into the classroom when their little darling tries their nonsense again. It generally takes only a couple of classes.

Good idea Spurious and one which was suggested in our place, but there was war over it! Basically, teachers were uneasy about the idea of parents wandering around the school and Garda vetting came up too. (Was this an issue in your school?) Mind you, this may be due to the fact that we've have issues in the past with parents coming in 'unannounced' and tackling teachers.

amacca

deemark wrote: »

Good idea Spurious and one which was suggested in our place, but there was war over it! Basically, teachers were uneasy about the idea of parents wandering around the school and Garda vetting came up too. (Was this an issue in your school?) Mind you, this may be due to the fact that we've have issues in the past with parents coming in 'unannounced' and tackling teachers.

and there's the other side of it.....sometimes the "parents" are much worse than the students.......

it used to amaze me how sensible and well behaved etc some of my students were given the behaviour of some of the parents.

presume there would be an issue with parents on school premises but nevertheless teachers shouldn't be isolated to deal with some issues on their own and persistent minor misbehaviour should be met with zero tolerance in some form imo

spurious

I actually feel a bit sorry for the parents I see sitting outside the door. Often they have done their best with in many cases limited support or parenting skills. We rarely have to get them up more than once and if they won't come up then maybe we need to look at alternative educational arrangements for their child.

Whatever about the effect on the 'character' that has caused his mother to come in, the effect on the other kids who might be considering 'having a laugh' is great. In our school, it's not the Principal/Deputy Principal/Year Head that makes the parents come up about a child, it's the child who makes their parent come up.

We didn't have any issue with Garda vetting and no parent was wandering in the school. We have a close relationship with our local station and we call them regularly if parents become abusive to staff. Parents are well aware we WILL pursue them if they step out of line.

As far as our Principal is concerned, our staff do not come to work to be abused by students or parents and the slightest sign of abuse and the student or parent is removed from the premises. If we have to speak to a parent through the school railings, then that is their choice.

The line has to be drawn somewhere.

gaeilgegrinds1

I had a meeting with a parent last week. I'm her child's tutor. There were a few others present too. Initially I felt sorry for her to be honest. He's a nightmare. Cheeky, abusive, steals, lies etc. And he DOES know better. Until I heard about her parenting. They talk about things, or at least she does, he listens or tunes out. She does not believe in punishment. He breaks something, does not have to see it right. He takes something, does not have to put it back. The list goes on.
That said, I asked her three times for the meeting. First time she forgot. Second time she was tired and stayed in bed. And she told us all this. It's not easy freeing up the principal, me and the others that were there. Does she care about that? No apology, nothing.
She's very well educated, money not a problem but she seems to have no reality when it comes to discipline. She says it is a nasty word. But now she wonders why he is unruly? Hmm...let me think! So I really think, the parents are often, not always, the root of the problem.

Fuinseog

very often kids dictate to their parents, who in turn dictate to the school. everyone has an opinion on education today.

helicopter parents are a wonder to behold. on the other end of the scale disinterested parents will only appear if it is to complain about you, the teacher.

given that we are living in post celtic tiger Ireland I wonder if this will be reflected in education?

i think part of the problem is also what we are teaching them is of no relevance. kids do not read books or watch a movie that is remotely educational. why should they? they will get what they want without having to work for it.

why should they respect a teacher when they are told by their parents and society as a whole that teachers are a bunch of wasters who only work 22 hours.

Fuinseog

just came across this in the indo. although the paper is anti teacher it churns out some interesting articles on occasion.


By E Grade
Wednesday December 01 2010
This year's first parents' night has just passed off without incident, which is a bad thing. What is the point if nobody actually says anything that will make a difference?

I've seen the odd parent, sweating in their overcoat, twitching and shifting in their chair as Mr Prince goes through a litany of offences committed so far this term, but even he knows that after a week or so, Kylie will be back to her old nasty self in class again.

The problem is that schools have become as banal and toothless as the rest of the nation's institutions. It's all Nescafe and digestives when it should be fire and brimstone.

First of all, we should take the initiative in setting the tone by playing the right music from speakers placed on the front of the building so that we set the scene as they arrive at the school. Just one song will do the trick -- the Manic Street Preachers' 'If you tolerate this, your children will be next'. Play it over and over so that they get the message.

Some schools allow parents to bring the child in question with them and some of them will bring the whole brood with them -- this must be stopped.

Teachers are there to read the riot act to the complacent and get revenge, not broker deals. A parent should return from a meeting seething and hell-bent on clearing the family name.

Parents with a score to settle -- because Ciaran didn't get an A in his Junior Cert or Sarah said you never gave back that assignment in September -- need to be reminded who is the expert here and who is the attention seeker.

Once they're in, every teacher must be determined not to waste this golden opportunity to confront these people with their child's evil-doing.

Make sure tea is served by the worst example of a filthy down-and-out alcoholic bum to have left the school, so that parents who tell their kids that they don't need French/Irish/religion/CSPE/ whatever can have a chat with him and he can tell them how he wished he had worked in school. If you can't find one, employ an actor.

If they start pontificating about your teaching style or some incident in class, tell them with your best concerned face that: "Mrs O'Brien, if you believe everything your kid tells you about school, then I'll have to start believing everything he tells me about home . . ."

If you're in that kind of school, you might want to point out to Mrs O'Thugarty that having six children by six different fathers is generally a bad idea. Have you tried contraception?

On the other hand, Mrs Courtauld, it's great that your make-up is impeccable, your hair is magnificent and that dress is sensational -- and all after a busy day at the office, but why does your Fintan never have a coat or a book or even a clean face?

Still, at least these are the ones who actually bother to turn up.

- E Grade

Irish Independent

amacca

Fuinseog wrote: »

you might want to point out to Mrs O'Thugarty that having six children by six different fathers is generally a bad idea. Have you tried contraception?

:rolleyes: Aah I remember little Thuggy McThugerton like it was yesterday.

But that's what happens when PC takes hold. Why would anyone step out on a limb (in relation to the unacceptability of their childs behaviour not their lifestyle choices) and really go for it when they will receive no real back up from the system or possibly even their management.

much easier to whisper sweet nothings (platitudes) in their ears....you'll get more thanks in the long run


and ultimately the below is so very true about P/T meetings

Fuinseog wrote: »

Mr Prince goes through a litany of offences committed so far this term, but even he knows that after a week or so, Kylie will be back to her old nasty self in class again.

because to a certain extent the below is also true

Fuinseog wrote: »

The problem is that schools have become as banal and toothless as the rest of the nation's institutions.

remove the power to impose speedy sanctions that cause discomfort and expect to be disrespected.

and of course in general the worst offenders parents dont bother showing up at all.

Fuinseog

the sex abuse scandals, the unknown knowns, that overwhelmed us recently, really put the spanner in the works.
never again would we doubt the word of a child.
up until then a teachers word would be believed over a pupils. Now it is completely the other way around and I am not sure if it is healthy to empower a child to the extent we have done so.

uriah

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

It is legal. Why would it be illegal?

This unqualified person is in charge of students.
Is s/he garda vetted?

S/he has no idea how to manaage a class. What if someone is injured/takes off without permission/is treated in an unacceptable manner by the 'teacher'or another student?

I wouldn't want to be the principal or BOM member in that school.
I wouldn't want to be a student there either.

gaeilgebeo

uriah wrote: »

This unqualified person is in charge of students.
Is s/he garda vetted?

S/he has no idea how to manaage a class. What if someone is injured/takes off without permission/is treated in an unacceptable manner by the 'teacher'or another student?

I wouldn't want to be the principal or BOM member in that school.
I wouldn't want to be a student there either.

I am well aware of the potential disasters that can happen in the classroom, however, you are missing my point.
It is not illegal.

Fuinseog

there was an article in the Times about two years ago, where an undercover journalist worked in a primary school for two days without producing any documentation. I think sometime s they are desperately seeking teachers for a day or two coverage.

delta_bravo

Fuinseog wrote: »

there was an article in the Times about two years ago, where an undercover journalist worked in a primary school for two days without producing any documentation. I think sometime s they are desperately seeking teachers for a day or two coverage.

Those days of long gone.



Theres plenty of sons and daughters of principals to fill the gaps now

byhookorbycrook

So the Indo who have heaped scorn on teachers and how we have it so easy for years now suggest we take revenge on parents?Puh-lease.

dambarude

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

So the Indo who have heaped scorn on teachers and how we have it so easy for years now suggest we take revenge on parents?Puh-lease.

Well the education editor (Seán Flynn) has left the Indo ... He's in an even worse place now, at Ruairi Quinn's right hand! What influence will that have?!

byhookorbycrook

Quinn is a shrewd mover, told INTO how great we are, but yes, lots of cuts.

dambarude

There's something a bit unnerving about Quinn. I don't doubt his competence (unlike his unfortunate predecessor), but there's something I can't quite put my finger on that makes alarm bells ring every time I hear him speak.

It's probably these savage cuts he spoke about today, now I think of it.

Kohl

dambarude wrote: »

There's something a bit unnerving about Quinn. I don't doubt his competence (unlike his unfortunate predecessor), but there's something I can't quite put my finger on that makes alarm bells ring every time I hear him speak.

It's probably these savage cuts he spoke about today, now I think of it.

He is an athiest. You can read it on Wiki.

Pwpane

Kohl wrote: »

He is an athiest. You can read it on Wiki.

Thank God!