New 'United Left Alliance' formed

dashboard_hula

I'm not voting for anyone who wants to raise corporate tax. I'm sorry, but there's trying to balance working for a large multinational while still having left leaning opinions and then there's amputating the hand that feeds you.

GarlicBread

Of course we should be careful with our corporation tax and be mindful of the jobs it either does or does not attract. One should also be mindful of the absolute ****LOAD OF INSTANT CASH that can be generated by increasing it, even if just by a little.

johngalway

k_mac wrote: »

So they're communists?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69211927&postcount=20

Sounds like Cuba, without the sexiness.

meglome

mike65 wrote: »

I was listening to Joe Higgins on RTE this morning, as per usual he had plenty of bluster but didn't put forward any solutions apart from tax the rich. This crowd won't amount to anything except lots of hot air on indymedia.ie

Exactly. This has been posted a few times around the place but it shows we are taxing most of the rich. It's the poorer people we're not taxing. Personally were I those richer people I'd be wondering why everyone isn't sharing the tax burden.

• Ireland’s top 0.5% of earners, the 11,714 people who earned more than €275,000 in a year, paid almost 18% of all income tax, over €2bn in total. Their average tax rate was 27.5%.
• Almost 770,000 people earned less than €17,000. Understandably, given tax credits, these workers paid a tiny amount of tax, €20m in total. Their average tax rate was about 0.5%.
• It’s in the middle, though, where things seem to go all screwy. The median earner, earning about €25,000, paid just 4% in income tax! As I argued before, we seem to have got ourselves into a situation where the typical Irish worker pays hardly any income tax and yet seems to think they are heavily taxed.

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2009/07/28/a-little-quiz-on-irelands-income-tax/

yermanoffthetv

Sharkey 10 wrote: »

Surely it is only fair to raise the corporation tax by a small amount as ive alway heard that everything should be hit . I would like to have someone else chime in here because i lack knowledge in this department .
Are these companies only here because of the low corp tax?
ie are there any geographical advantage, good workforce etc.

Is it a fact that if corp tax goes up foreign companies leave?

My thoughts is that we should be encouraging indigenous business so that the profit aren't going abroad.

Quite simply yes, the vast majority of international investment is here because of the low corporation tax. This offsets the diseconomies of scale we have due to distance from large markets, higher wages etc. Your right though, we should be encouraging indigenous business in a support function to these large MNC's as well as the amalgamation of irish firms into larger companies. Look at the Kerry group, founded as a small co-op and now is the worlds largest food ingredients supplier. We should be looking to do something similar in the medical device and software sector. The talent is there its just a case of joining the dots with investment/government support.

The Waltzing Consumer

Sharkey 10 wrote: »

Surely it is only fair to raise the corporation tax by a small amount as ive alway heard that everything should be hit . I would like to have someone else chime in here because i lack knowledge in this department .
Are these companies only here because of the low corp tax?
ie are there any geographical advantage, good workforce etc.

Is it a fact that if corp tax goes up foreign companies leave?

My thoughts is that we should be encouraging indigenous business so that the profit aren't going abroad.

I am shocked and scared at this reply :eek:

Companies have been warning that they will leave by the bucketload if Corp tax is raised. Joe Higgins wants "significant increases" in the corp tax, not a little, but significant increases.

To answer your questions. These companies are definitely 100% here because of Corp Tax. It is not the only reason but one of the biggest and one of the dealbreakers.

If you touch it all, think of firstly the thousands of jobs in Dublin West that go, then all the spin-off business that will go, the housing market will take another tumble because of the amount of Irish and non-Irish living in Dublin West because of these companies. Think of the Blanch Centre and the significant drop in numbers from shoppers who would go there because their employment was near to it and then the amount of jobs that would go. Touching corp tax is like a bullet in the head for West Dublin, and our good friend Joe Higgins is threating that. So would you vote for him?

My God, it is actually scary that their might be people in Dublin West would are clueless to this and would vote Higgins!

deise go deo

k_mac wrote: »

"There can be no just or sustainable solution to the crisis based on the capitalist market. Instead we favour democratic and public control over resources so that social need is prioritised over profit."

So they're communists?

Marxist might be a better term, Communist draws imags of stalinist purges etc. Not something I would associate with Joe Higgins.

MagicSean

deise go deo wrote: »

Marxist might be a better term, Communist draws imags of stalinist purges etc. Not something I would associate with Joe Higgins.

If the scenes outside the Dept of Finance are anything to go by I would not rule it out.

electrogrimey

Why can't this country have a decent party on the left, a party that knows what they're doing, and don't just make promises about starting organic farms. That's what this country needs.

Holybejaysus

I presume the motto will be: "fruitcakes of the world, unite!"

Ever time I see that Richard Boyd Barrett I thumb the safety catch of an imaginary revolver......

Denerick

These people really are living in la la land, willfully denying reality. That said I'd like to see an alternative voice in Irish politics, a group with serious ideological credentials, even if they are more akin to an uncritical religious group than a political philosophy. For example, the left party in Germany has really shaken up politics there in recent years, and at the very least provides real options for voters disenchanted with their political and economic system, however misled they may be.

Einhard

deise go deo wrote: »

Marxist might be a better term, Communist draws imags of stalinist purges etc. Not something I would associate with Joe Higgins.

Probably not something one would have associated with Uncle Joe before he came to power either!!

Wibbs

johngalway wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69211927&postcount=20

Sounds like Cuba, without the sexiness.

Worse. They read like hippies. Jesus, like others I have some respect for Higgins, but not as an economist. This workers of the world unite guff doesn't end well. Typical hard left "thinking". They're great at doling out money to worthy causes, haven't got jack of an idea how to create it in the first place.

I mean look at this list;

loony left wrote:

These new strategic industries might include:

Might indeed.

A generic pharmaceutical industry to contribute
to the global replacement of big Pharma.

Good tip folks: The very second one reads "big pharma" you're either dealing with a tinfoilhattist a hippie or a quack about to sell you snakeoil.

Pioneering forms of technology to support a
shift to preventative medicine

Running machines and spinning bikes for all(well those in the politburo and their families).

Support for agricultural co-operatives which
have pioneered the development of organic
food.

Cum by ya, collective farms ahoy. So lets starve or quadruple the amount of food we already import then.

The operation of closed factories by their
workforce to produce goods people really need.

Right so who decides the "need". Yea I can imagine. Motherland grey aran sweaters for all, shoddy bolts for everyone else(nuts to come later comrades).

What is scary and what others have noted is people will buy into this nonsense. People in sales often say the customer buys the salesman or woman, not the item itself. So because they like the candidate(which to be fair in the case of Joe Higgins not difficult at all) and will go along with this. Or people will buy this because they're scared or thick or ignorant of what's being peddled. No? How many kept voting for FF and watch the next election and see how high FF poll. They wont win but dont be shocked with how many get back in.

Ray Burkes Pension

Whats the point of running for election and at the same time ruling yourself out of government

"Those elected as part of the alliance will not do any deals or support any coalition with any of the right wing parties particularly Fianna Fail and Fine Gael."

So vote away, but they cant do anything in opposition.

nesf

james.xix wrote: »

If they can get their message across that they will protect the tax-payer and not the bondholders, they could gain support.

Honestly, if the people are actually ever dumb enough to vote for them en masse, I'll emigrate. Their proposals make Sinn Fein's look like sensible economic policy. Almost.

nesf

Ray Burkes Pension wrote: »

So vote away, but they cant do anything in opposition.

They can be angry and represent the downtrodden ordinary worker! While never actually having to do implement anything so not having to deal with the realities of running a country like balancing budgets and other such troublesome concepts.

GarlicBread

Ray Burkes Pension wrote: »

Whats the point of running for election and at the same time ruling yourself out of government

"Those elected as part of the alliance will not do any deals or support any coalition with any of the right wing parties particularly Fianna Fail and Fine Gael."

So vote away, but they cant do anything in opposition.

Who says FG or FF are gonna be in government next time? FF are almost gone alltogather and if Labour got its head out of its ass it could easily lead a left wing government with SF + ULA.

Since FG couldnt go with FF, they would have to beg Labour, who would have a choice of two coalitions. Gilmore would have FG by the balls, lol.

The future is unforseen.

nesf

GarlicBread wrote: »

FF are almost gone alltogather and if Labour got its head out of its ass it could easily lead a left wing government with SF + ULA.

Yes, and forever lose the votes of everyone who has a problem with SF or ULA.

Gunmonkey

Yeah, read their manifesto from 2008 a while back. Taxing people earning 22,000 to 64,000 43% tax and 70% for over 64,000, so essentially making a promotion and pay raise a BAD thing, doesnt sound like the smartest economic policies.

And god help them trying to make anything "we really need" on this island with f*** all natural resources that cost more to import than buying the finished product from China.

namloc1980

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Yeah, read their manifesto from 2008 a while back. Taxing people earning 22,000 to 64,000 43% tax and 70% for over 64,000, so essentially making a promotion and pay raise a BAD thing, doesnt sound like the smartest economic policies.

And god help them trying to make anything "we really need" on this island with f*** all natural resources that cost more to import than buying the finished product from China.

Hard left economics has never worked and it never will. The numbers never add up. Every hard left centrally planned economy in history has imploded such as USSR, Eastern Bloc, North Korea etc. The Chinese realised that which is why they have embraced their own brand of capitalism.

I especially liked this from this crowd's website, I got a good laugh out of it.:

Reduce the working week without loss of pay and create tens of thousands of jobs by sharing out the work.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

MagicSean

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Step 1 - eliminate wealth
Step 2 - ?????
Step 3 - profit


What I find most funny about these people is that they seem to have no grasp is how unpopular they and their policies are. They live in a complete fantasy land.

Buford T Justice

k_mac wrote: »

What I find most funny about these people is that they seem to have no grasp is how unpopular they and their policies are. They live in a complete fantasy land.

Rather like our present incumbents, one would think. At least we have the option to keep these ones out

GarlicBread

Well, we have had about 90 years right wing governments and hard conservatism and incase anyone hasnt noticed the place is in complete ****.Its time for a change me thinks.Olli Rein was talking about us in secret and who was the only person to stand up for us and walk out????????

BluntGuy

Reduce the working week without loss of pay and create tens of thousands of jobs by sharing out the work.

Artificially creating redundant jobs has no social benefits and is not a valid solution to our current problems.

The working week is fine, what's needed is actual jobs! Okay, they've got some vague proposals for investing in social infrastructure such as;

like public transport, green energy projects, broadband, child care, schools, hospitals, health centres and other community facilities.

What public transport? What green energy projects? What kind of health centres? How many?

There's just no substance to any of this. We need a genuine thought-out alternative. Not a party banking on people's anger. It's as bad as banking on people's greed.

It's all "what" and no "how". Unfortunately monopoly money doesn't pay for things.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

population

BluntGuy wrote: »

Artificially creating redundant jobs has no social benefits and is not a valid solution to our current problems.

This. I live in one of the most economically depressed regions of Europe where the chances of real employment for young people are slim to non existent due to reasons too varied to discuss fully on this thread. However if I may give you a cautionary tale.

There is a school supply/stationary centre close to where I live with 3 floors contained within the building. I went to the top floor and picked up a box of staples and went to walk downstairs to pay for them at the cash register. I was called back by an employee who took the staples from me and wrote a docket, he then gave the staples to another guy behind him who bagged up the staples, wrote another docket and placed them into a service elevator. They told me to go down to the cash register. I went down and there was another guy manning the lift at the other end. He read the docket, compared it to mine and gave the staples to the guy at the register who then took the money and gave me the staples. 4 people to do the job of 1. The process takes forever and essentially there are literally millions of people in Italy employed in non jobs paying practically nothing. But it is easier for government etc to encourage this rather than provide the groundwork for actual efficient dynamic businesses to start up and thrive and contribute something meaningful to the exchequer.

In summation, economic policy based on creating non jobs is essentially non policy.

MagicSean

GarlicBread wrote: »

Well, we have had about 90 years right wing governments and hard conservatism and incase anyone hasnt noticed the place is in complete ****.Its time for a change me thinks.Olli Rein was talking about us in secret and who was the only person to stand up for us and walk out????????

How is walking away standing up for us. Please don't glorify that man as some kind of hero.

amacachi

Wibbs wrote: »

Right so who decides the "need". Yea I can imagine. Motherland grey aran sweaters for all, shoddy bolts for everyone else(nuts to come later comrades).

If only there was some way for people to show what they need to buy and the importance of different goods to them. Maybe if they had something they could exchange for goods and services which would be priced and produced according to demand. I can't think of such a system though. :pac:

donegalfella wrote: »

Actually, we've had Fianna Fáil routinely snatching defeat from the jaws of victory with its populist spending sprees. Back in 1978, its mad spending produced a budget deficit of 17.6 percent of GDP, which held the record for developed countries for the period 1970-2008 (per the IMF). Now, FF has outdone itself, giving us a 2010 budget deficit of 32 percent of GDP. It racked up a national debt of €90 billion before its borrowing was choked off by the bond markets. We now await an IMF/EU bailout.

I don't exactly know what is "right-wing" or "conservative" about this. You might not approve of conservatives' distaste for funding social programs and public services, but they do tend to keep a tighter fiscal rein on things.

In Fairness the real left would probably be just as responsible as the real right when it comes to balancing the books. Unfortunately there's no right in Ireland and the left is a purely reactionary group. All we have is populist tripe and it's that which leads to massive debt.

GarlicBread

k_mac wrote: »

How is walking away standing up for us. Please don't glorify that man as some kind of hero.

And the other 13 MEPs sat there and agreed to confidentiality when they are supposed to be fighting our corner, however ****ty a corner it may be, they are there because of our votes and they basically agreed to lie to us even further.

I dont have a problem with Olli covering his own ass, but our MEPs should be covering our asses.