Cycling on ice

lucianot

Well, not like the Disney show, but as I am new to cycling in very cold weather I just ask the boardies before attempting it myself tomorrow (I had to take the car today )
Does it really affect the bicicle or do we also benefit from the grit and salt on the roads? What precaution should one take?
I saw a poor guy this morning , he fell off the bike but was alright.

Just my experiences...

Try not to turn too sharply. Braking is also a no-no on the ice itself, if you're on a patch of ice just try to keep the bike steady and level. Also keep the speed down.

Really if possible stay out of the cycle lanes as they'll be one of the first places for ice/frost to form. Best place to be is in the tracks that a car went through. Off-road cycle lanes should best be avoided in the next few weeks as there's no chance they'll be gritted.

deandean

Don't.

Deadly.

Take the bus.

There are studded tyres available if you're determined, but not good for the inexperienced!

Tried the studded tyres on the way in today myself, lovely crunching sound all the way in.

Lumen

A full face helmet and kevlar body armour provide both safety and warmth in such conditions.

lucianot

Lumen wrote: »

A full face helmet and kevlar body armour provide both safety and warmth in such conditions.

Rocketman?

lucianot

deandean wrote: »

Don't.

Deadly.

Take the bus.

There are studded tyres available if you're determined, but not good for the inexperienced!

Creppe! Just when I was starting to see some improvement. My bike is cheap chinese one, probably not worth the tyres upgrade.

shrewd

studded tyres should do the trick. Also try and avoid cycle lanes

Cycle slowly, and keep an eye up ahead at all times. Avoid ice at all costs, even if it means walking the bike across the road and walking for a few minutes.

Cycling on ice is like cycling with CDs for Wheels, one wrong move and your on your face.

If you find yourself on ice, do your best to get off it without increasing speed/braking.

lucianot

lucianot wrote: »

Rocketman?

She packed my bags last night pre-flight?

Columbia

If there's any downhill stretch on your route, where your speed cannot be controlled by sitting up (i.e. no brakes), I'd definitely give it a miss.

If you absolutely have to brake, use the rear only. If you use the front and there's a patch of ice, you'll be eating said ice before you even know something's gone wrong.

Personally, I'd take the car for the next week, if that's an option to you. If you slip on a turn and come down dead weight on your hip, you'll probably be taking the car for the next two weeks anyway.

lucianot

Yes, there are two steep hills and you can get a very good speed if you don't break.
Then it is dangerous, I'll take the car instead, don't want to risk it.

macnab

I did 15k in the ice earlier just to test myself. Stick to routes that you know, learn what areas thaw early and what areas keep iced over. Dont use your front brakes on ice. I cycle in a rural area so the high hedges make the ice last longer.

Mint Sauce

cycled in icy conditions a couple of times, only had to touch the front brake once to learn never never to do it again (touch the front brake that is). I was sore for the rest of the day after that one. You come down fast and hard. Bike stayed in doors for a day or two after that one.



Basically if you must, take it very easy, keep turns gentle, and pad up.

Off thread ever so slightly, cycling off road in snow, great fun.

kenmc

If you cycle faster you'll be on the ice for less, and home quicker, therefore less risk of accident

But seriously, drop the PSI a few bar, take it handy, avoid front braking and keep the bike as upright as possible. It's good fun on ice, especially as you go past cars spinning their wheels and making more noise than progress

Lumen

Frost is not ice. Well, technically it is but not in cycling terms.

You can cut through frost with studs, or just cycle more slowly particularly on the corners.

With sheet ice you're basically screwed at any speed much above walking pace. Studs only give you another 20psi or so more grip.

If possible configure your bike to lose grip from the back first. Rear end slides are fun. Front end slides are abrupt and painful.

Quigs Snr

Not worth it. You could be riding along in what you think is thawed conditions and hit a little patch under a tree or something that is in the shade. I have had 2 entire winter/spring wiped out, the last 2 years in a row due to injuries sustained in crashes on ice patches. Up to you, but the bus is cheaper than the hospital fees in my experience.

carthoris

In my experience the frost or ice can be manageable. The frost that occurs these nights doesn't last very long on roads that has any traffic on it at all, and most of the roads are being gritted. As the others mentioned, taking it easy and not making hard or sudden movements help.

Avoid areas that have not seen traffic - cycle lanes, hard shoulders, very quiet roads. Housing estates are not often (ever?) gritted and they are usually pretty slippy, so walk out of the estate onto the road.

funkyjebus

carthoris wrote: »

In my experience the frost or ice can be manageable. The frost that occurs these nights doesn't last very long on roads that has any traffic on it at all, and most of the roads are being gritted. As the others mentioned, taking it easy and not making hard or sudden movements help.

Avoid areas that have not seen traffic - cycle lanes, hard shoulders, very quiet roads. Housing estates are not often (ever?) gritted and they are usually pretty slippy, so walk out of the estate onto the road.

no health insurance! shocking. I'd be a slower cyclist without it!

seamus

Generally speaking, the closer you are to a town or city, the earlier the ice will clear. Outside of that, it takes progressively longer and if it's cold enough the same ice that was there in the morning will still be there when you get home.
In Dublin, you're generally completely clear from the immediate suburbs in (Rathgar, Drumcondra, etc), and the roads are usually clear all the way out to the major villages - Tallaght, Blanch, etc. Except of course when it snows. Then you're on your own.

Had to walk/roll the first few hundred meters this morning.

Jawgap

Out of the 4 spills I've had resulting in injury - 3 have been on ice, with the first two being within in a week of each other and leaving me for a period of about 3/4 weeks with two broken collarbones.......

.......my advice would be not to - icy weather is God's way to tell you to get out the turbo not HTFU:)

English Bob

After wrecking a decent waterproof jacket, windproof jersey & bib tights from two separate spills on the ice last year (not to mention cycling home once with one arse cheek hanging out ruined tights) I'd definitely stick to indoor trainer or just wait til later in the day when (hopefully) the roads are safer. Both spills were on country lanes so best to stick to well used roads also.

Canis Lupus

It can be fun to try and spin the back wheel on ice.

If you get snow and it compacts and gets washboarded that's also a bitch on roadbike tyres, that scares me more than ice tbh.

100Suns

Your decision can be informed by what type of bike you have available and the characteristics of your route. A road bike can be nerve wracking (and reckless) on ice and is not recommended - you can only knock so much humour out of a face plant or heavy fall onto a kerb, into a bollard/road sign/utility pole/pedestrian, or into the path of following/oncoming traffic. A mountain bike on the other hand, ridden (cautiously and with due regard to others) on a continuous grass verge, across open spaces or 'cross country' (e.g. through the Phoenix Park) is safer and can be a good training ride. Adequate daylight or flood lights endorsed by Lumen are mandatory for such excursions. I find once you hit the City centre the volume of traffic and gritting that has usually been carried out (elevation and proximity to the coast may also be factors) is generally effective at clearing any ice once the rush hour is in full swing.

lucianot

100Suns wrote: »

Your decision can be informed by what type of bike you have available and the characteristics of your route. A road bike can be nerve wracking (and reckless) on ice and is not recommended - you can only knock so much humour out of a face plant or heavy fall onto a kerb, into a bollard/road sign/utility pole/pedestrian, or into the path of following/oncoming traffic. A mountain bike on the other hand, ridden (cautiously and with due regard to others) on a continuous grass verge, across open spaces or 'cross country' (e.g. through the Phoenix Park) is safer and can be a good training ride. Adequate daylight or flood lights endorsed by Lumen are mandatory for such excursions. I find once you hit the City centre the volume of traffic and gritting that has usually been carried out (elevation and proximity to the coast may also be factors) is generally effective at clearing any ice once the rush hour is in full swing.

This is the one: http://www.hawkcycles.co.uk/product_details.php?product_id=317&k=9

So is more of a road bike and is not good, I bought it here in Galway and I utterly regret it, lot's of issues.
I cycle on a normal road but with two very steep hills (Dougishka road) and you can reach a very good speed downhill.
There is a considerable amount of traffic but I usually use the cycle path provided but then it ends and I have to use the road.

mockler007

try 2.2 - 2.35s tire width
had no issues last year in the real snow and ice:D

100Suns

lucianot wrote: »

This is the one: http://www.hawkcycles.co.uk/product_details.php?product_id=317&k=9

So is more of a road bike and is not good, I bought it here in Galway and I utterly regret it, lot's of issues.
I cycle on a normal road but with two very steep hills (Dougishka road) and you can reach a very good speed downhill.
There is a considerable amount of traffic but I usually use the cycle path provided but then it ends and I have to use the road.

I wouldn't fancy the route you describe on your bike. If you are at all nervous about it don't cycle. The tension won't help!

tomasrojo

funkyjebus wrote: »

no health insurance! shocking. I'd be a slower cyclist without it!

Risk compensation in action!

tomasrojo

lucianot wrote: »

This is the one: http://www.hawkcycles.co.uk/product_details.php?product_id=317&k=9

So is more of a road bike and is not good, I bought it here in Galway and I utterly regret it, lot's of issues.
I cycle on a normal road but with two very steep hills (Dougishka road) and you can reach a very good speed downhill.
There is a considerable amount of traffic but I usually use the cycle path provided but then it ends and I have to use the road.

The cycle track on Doughiska? This one?



I can't see any advantage in using it. It's one of the worst facilities I've seen anywhere in the world, in fact. Featured in the Warrington Cycle Campaigns "Worst Of" monthly feature.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/wcc/facility-of-the-month/September2010.htm

But, more specifically, you're more likely to fall using a facility like the above. The cars get rid of ice on the road, but it remains on the footpath, which essentially is what a facility such as the one pictured above remains.

Maybe try and find a route with gentler inclines, and more traffic (to mash up and melt any ice).

Was it actually icy or frosty? As said above, frost is ok to cycle on. Sheet ice is not.

Beasty

Ice - such memories ....

The crunching of the bones
The scar the size of my hand on my leg
The €200+ replacement Assos Bibtights
The €100 fee for attending casualty
The €70 per day taxi costs over 6 weeks
Getting nice and cosy in the garage on the turbo

Yep - bring it on ....

lucianot

Yeap, that cycle track sir. The main road is actually quite narrow and I don't trust the drivers so I prefer using the path but if there is less ice I will start using the main road, it makes sense.

Alanstrainor

I had a bad spill last year. Was going through an estate near UCD (don't attend!) and lost front wheel traction on a straight, which caught me completely off guard tbh. I don't recall touching the brakes, although i knew i was on sheet ice at that stage. Busted my knee pretty badly, was out for a couple of days. I did continue the cycle home as the knee swelled up! I'd be wary of it this year!

So mountain bike, or my commuter with 700c*25(They're gator skins, which are pretty atrocious for grip actually...hmmm)?

Gavin

Lumen wrote: »

Frost is not ice. Well, technically it is but not in cycling terms.

You can cut through frost with studs, or just cycle more slowly particularly on the corners.

With sheet ice you're basically screwed at any speed much above walking pace. Studs only give you another 20psi or so more grip.

I think this depends on the quality of the studded tyres. I've used very good schwalbe ice spikes on sheet ice up 3 rock. Excellent grip, I could even pull a controlled skid. Regular mtb ~30 psi

biomed32

my advice is to:
reduce your speed and be aware of your surroundings e.g. leaves, wet shiny patches etc
DONT brake, took 4 spills on the way to secondary school on a mountain bike for me to learn this lesson. if necessary, use your feet to slow down.
Keep your tyres well pumped up and bring a spare tube and a pump with you to make sure they stay that way
If the conditions are truely icy and treacherous, as bad as it is to admit it, leave the bike at home and go for either public transport or other

HxGH

lucianot wrote: »

Well, not like the Disney show, but as I am new to cycling in very cold weather I just ask the boardies before attempting it myself tomorrow (I had to take the car today )
Does it really affect the bicicle or do we also benefit from the grit and salt on the roads? What precaution should one take?
I saw a poor guy this morning , he fell off the bike but was alright.

I immediatly thought it was some sort of show like the Disney show on ice.

I was saddly dissapointed.

biomed32

biomed32 wrote: »

my advice is to:
reduce your speed and be aware of your surroundings e.g. leaves, wet shiny patches etc
DONT brake, took 4 spills on the way to secondary school on a mountain bike for me to learn this lesson. if necessary, use your feet to slow down.
Keep your tyres well pumped up and bring a spare tube and a pump with you to make sure they stay that way
If the conditions are truely icy and treacherous, as bad as it is to admit it, leave the bike at home and go for either public transport or other

just for your information, having your tyres well pumped will lessen your friction with the road and help you to snot yourself more often.

Lower tyre pressure = more rubber on the ground

carthoris

Deleted User wrote: »

just for your information, having your tyres well pumped will lessen your friction with the road and help you to snot yourself more often.

Lower tyre pressure = more rubber on the ground

Surely you mean more rubber on the ice

It is difficult to know which approach to take - a smaller contact area helps with water, snow and slush as it will cut through it and get to the road. A larger contact area seems to make more sense with ice - but if you are on ice does the larger contact area given by a few PSI make that much of a difference ?

Lumen

carthoris wrote: »

Surely you mean more rubber on the ice

It is difficult to know which approach to take - a smaller contact area helps with water, snow and slush as it will cut through it and get to the road. A larger contact area seems to make more sense with ice - but if you are on ice does the larger contact area given by a few PSI make that much of a difference ?

I ran a bike with spiked cyclocross tyres up in Wicklow a couple of winters ago. I got about as much grip as people running non-spiked tubeless MTB tyres. When you're on proper snow and ice a large contact patch makes a huge amount of difference so you want all the width you can get.

However, if you're just talking about cycling around on normal roads with the odd patch of ice, you have to ask how much hassle you're prepared to go to. Running fat low pressure tyres on tarmac isn't much fun.

Skill is the most important consideration - skill in keeping the bike upright, skill in knowing where and when to slow down, and most importantly the skill in knowing when to just stay indoors and eat cake.

carthoris

Lumen wrote: »

When you're on proper snow and ice a large contact patch makes a huge amount of difference so you want all the width you can get.

However, if you're just talking about cycling around on normal roads with the odd patch of ice, you have to ask how much hassle you're prepared to go to. Running fat low pressure tyres on tarmac isn't much fun.

Rather than getting brand new fat tyres do you think that there would be much advantage in dropping 30 PSI off a 700cx25/28 tyre ? I would think this would not significantly increase the contact area - but then any increase is a good one it seems.

Skill is the most important consideration - skill in keeping the bike upright, skill in knowing where and when to slow down, and most importantly the skill in knowing when to just stay indoors and eat cake.

I was going to say I am very skilled at the latter - but in reality I am not as I seem to think it is always the right time to stay indoors and eat cake

carthoris

You may have noticed that one some of the major roads there are small weather stations - these feed into some NRA system and the provide the output on their website. This can be useful as it give an indication of both the weather in the area and the state of the road (road temp, if it has been treated etc).

Unfortunately it only focuses on major roads such as motorways, but I have still found it useful to get an indication of what to expect:

http://www.nratraffic.ie/weather/default.asp?RegionId=0

Jawgap

Dublin Airport also stream their data......

http://weather.noaa.gov/weather/current/EIDW.html

lucianot

HxGH wrote: »

I immediatly thought it was some sort of show like the Disney show on ice.

I was saddly dissapointed.

I'll dress like Gooofy just for fun

Lumen

carthoris wrote: »

Rather than getting brand new fat tyres do you think that there would be much advantage in dropping 30 PSI off a 700cx25/28 tyre ? I would think this would not significantly increase the contact area - but then any increase is a good one it seems.

Contact area is precisely correlated with pressure.

If you+bike = 200lbs, contact patch @ 50psi is 4 square inches, contact patch @ 100psi = 2 square inches.

Maths FTW, until you freeze to death whilst changing a pinch flat.

Ant

I had booked yesterday afternoon off from work as I still have annual leave to use up and I find it hard to get the time to go out for a decent cycle. I had planned to venture into Wicklow (for the first since suffering a broken collarbone in June). I'd never cycled in the mountains in the winter but I figured that any frost should have thawed out by the afternoon so I stuck to my plans.

The climb up Stocking Lane and Kilakee Road (avoiding the oil slick which another boardsie earlier warned about) was fine but descending towards Glencree I came across a few icy patches. The first one was particularly scary as I wasn't expecting it and was going a lot faster than I would have been had I been expecting it. I had planned to continue on towards Sally Gap but I was worried that the more climbing I did, the more descending I'd have to do so I turned left and took the road to Enniskerry. I figured the south-facing side of Glencree valley would have got more sun than the opposite side. Unfortunately, the trees block the sun so there was lots of ice with quite a few patches of snow on the road between Glencree and Enniskerry. For that section of the route, I spent a lot of time feathering the back brakes to keep my speed down without skidding and taking wide lines to avoid cornering too tightly - as well as pulling over when cars approached. My average speed for that whole 55km spin was only 20km/h.

I spent all summer recovering from a broken collarbone and it's only in the past month or two that I've had the few opportunities to start cycling again. I had been looking forward to building up my fitness on the Wicklow hills but I think it might be safer to stick to the low ground where there's less ice on the roads.

Edit: FWIW, my front tyre is a 23c Vittoria Rubino Pro and the rear is a 25c Michelin Krylion Carbon.