Protest March 27/11/2010

BeefJerkyX

Eh, Prinz... you made it about me. About us -

prinz wrote: »

The problems will always remain until people can put their hands up and admit their own part. Plenty of calls for Cowen etc to admit what they did, but when it comes to the average poster...not so much.

Darlughda

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Sorry, but it appears that you just want to rant, and that is fair enough after reading your posts on this thread, it sounds horrible and fair play to you but your anger at Prinz is misdirected.

Prinz is correct in the majority of what he has wrote, it is not happy reading, there are always exceptions to the rule of course, but he is correct. Harsh but true. If we blinker ourselves about what has happened, we learn nothing.

I do take exception to Prinz's assumption of 'everyone' benefitted and that is one the reasons as I have said already why I will be marching tomorrow.

Some people benefitted greatly from the boom, and others are being forced to pay for this. The bank bailout alone is estimated at costing @35b, and why the hell should any of us pay for that?

There is no getting away from the reality of a harsh budget and austerity measures, but this idea that the poorest and most vulnerable in society who BENEFITTED LEAST from the boom should be forced to suffer the most is wrong and unjust.
Not to mention the fact the government and the whole set up in Dáil Éireann needs to be reformed from the top down.

CiaranC

prinz wrote: »

That's not what I am saying. I am saying that venting against the government is all well and good, changing government is all well and good, but the problems remain. The problems will always remain until people can put their hands up and admit their own part. Plenty of calls for Cowen etc to admit what they did, but when it comes to the average poster...not so much. Protest away, as long as you put proper thought into it and it's not part of some ill thought out knee jerk thing, which personally, rallying to David Begg's cause tomorrow is. When is the march against him and his ilk?

Its not david beggs cause. You seem incable of grasping that there will be plenty of different types of people protesting.

Eith er that our you are being completely disingenuous

prinz

BeefJerkyX wrote: »

Eh, Prinz... you made it about me. About us -

But I am able to put my hand up and say, yes even though I was on crap money I enjoyed a standard of living that was higher than a lot of other people, better than my parents ever had it, and better than a lot of places including a lot of people in the countries that are going to be stumping up the cash to help us out now. In the grand scheme of things we're still not badly off overall.

prinz

Darlughda wrote: »

There is no getting away from the reality of a harsh budget and austerity measures, but this idea that the poorest and most vulnerable in society who BENEFITTED LEAST from the boom should be forced to suffer the most is wrong and unjust..

Yet you will be marching in an ICTU sponsored march.... with their top men with six figure salaries, numerous other appointments in the state and semi-state companies, and some of whom were in roles where they failed in their duties which led directly to the mess we are now in... tell the unions to take a running jump and try to organise a charity umbrella group so somebody with the moral basis to lead a protest can lead it.

prinz

CiaranC wrote: »

Its not david beggs cause. You seem incable of grasping that there will be plenty of different types of people protesting.

I don't care. I wouldn't lend my support to anything remotely associated with him and his cronies who were one of the major driving forces in the country's cock-up.

Darlughda

prinz wrote: »

Yet you will be marching in an ICTU sponsored march.... with their top men with six figure salaries, numerous other appointments in the state and semi-state companies, and some of whom were in roles where they failed in their duties which led directly to the mess we are now in... tell the unions to take a running jump and try to organise a charity umbrella group so somebody with the moral basis to lead a protest can lead it.

I'm not pleased about that either. I want no truck with them union fatcats. However a number of charities and community groups have decided to march tomorrow, we wont be hanging around under their banners.

BeefJerkyX

Prinz, I enjoyed a FAR better standard of living than my parents. I had it pretty good. I'm still doing okay now. I'm not disputing that.

But just because I did okay does not mean I have to hold my hand up and say this is my fault. And, without knowing what you do, I can't possibly imagine you should either.

CiaranC

You

prinz wrote: »

But I am able to put my hand up and say, yes even though I was on crap money I enjoyed a standard of living that was higher than a lot of other people, better than my parents ever had it, and better than a lot of places including a lot of people in the countries that are going to be stumping up the cash to help us out now. In the grand scheme of things we're still not badly off overall.

We are about to sign up to an agreement which will impoverish this state for decades. You must be taking the piss

prinz

BeefJerkyX wrote: »

Prinz, I enjoyed a FAR better standard of living than my parents. I had it pretty good. I'm still doing okay now. I'm not disputing that. But just because I did okay does not mean I have to hold my hand up and say this is my fault. And, without knowing what you do, I can't possibly imagine you should either.

It's not necessarily down to accepting fault per se. I think we, as a people, need to figure out what country we want to be and start working to get it, fast. If we want to be the country with slow, steady economic performance as someone mentioned earlier in the thread we need a fairly seismic social change, along with a governmental change, and that's where I feel everyone has a part to play. It's just not good enough to say the new government will sort it all out for us.

CiaranC

prinz wrote: »

I don't care. I wouldn't lend my support to anything remotely associated with him and his cronies who were one of the major driving forces in the country's cock-up.

You realize this precludes you from protesting anything. Ever. Right?

prinz

CiaranC wrote: »

We are about to sign up to an agreement which will impoverish this state for decades. You must be taking the piss

The alternative is not to do it, and the State will still be impoverished for God knows how long.

BeefJerkyX

prinz wrote: »

It's not necessarily down to accepting fault per se. I think we, as a people, need to figure out what country we want to be and start working to get it, fast. If we want to be the country with slow, steady economic performance as someone mentioned earlier in the thread we need a fairly seismic social change, along with a governmental change, and that's where I feel everyone has a part to play. It's just not good enough to say the new government will sort it all out for us.

Oh. Then, as it happens, I totally agree with you.

Edit: Ah, except on your view on the deal. Yes, the State will be impoverished. It already is. But IMF's history is not a positive one. We do have other options, not least of which (while it's an extremely unpleasant sceneario) is defaulting or finding a way out of the Euro. One way or another, we're all in a bad way. It's a question of how bad and for how long.

prinz

CiaranC wrote: »

You realize this precludes you from protesting anything. Ever. Right?

No, it doesn't.

CiaranC

prinz wrote: »

The alternative is not to do it, and the State will still be impoverished for God knows how long.

What? You clearly dont even understand what is happening here.go do some reading and maybe you will understand why its so important to protest regardless of who else is.

To the rest of you, se you tomorrow

My name is URL

prinz wrote: »

The alternative is not to do it, and the State will still be impoverished for God knows how long.

Would we really be any worse off in the long-term if we just defaulted and started afresh? What's the worst that can happen? What % of our GDP is going to be spent on paying off the interest on the bailout over the next 20 years or so? And what happens when Spain finally follows us and goes belly up? It'll take trillions to bail them out! I mean one of the reasons we have this bailout is to keep the euro from collapsing.. and it will collapse, eventually. Why should the Irish people be indebted for generations to come in order to delay the demise of this failed currency?

the_syco

sensibleken wrote: »

i was barely getting by through the boom years on a fraction above minimum wage while sharing a room with a friend in a flat paying absorbant prices. not everyone was driving mercs. I got sweet FA from the boom and now im paying for the loss of others

The minimum wage was brought in due to the celtic tiger. Before the minimum wage, £2 an hour for 12 hour days were legal.

Crosáidí wrote: »

Which of ye Boardsies will be marching on Saturday 27/11/2010 11am at Wood Quay, with the Unions, Jim Corr and other groups and individuals . You don't have to agree with either of their opinions but

Aye, "but" indeed. You don't need to agree with their agenda, but please come out to support their agenda?

Maybe if there was no unions, I'd come, but can't see that happening, with so many unions protesting.

The same unions who wanted more money in the past.

The same unions who now want to protest, knowing that the goverment intend to slash their membership base, and thus wants them replaced with a union loving political party.

The unions did a lot of good during the foundation of the state, but those in power now, I question their motivations. Esp their large salaries.

MagicSean

the_syco wrote: »

The minimum wage was brought in due to the celtic tiger. Before the minimum wage, £2 an hour for 12 hour days were legal

I remember when it was put up to £3. Good times.

zxr500man

i dont have any major political views or dont favour any political party,
im going to protest tomorow,because,
1 ,im unemployed and cant get a job.for a while now!
2,im struggling to feed my family,
3,im not in agreement with the future thats been promised to me by our great leaders,poverty etc...:mad:
4,im really pissed!

CiaranC

prinz wrote: »

No, it doesn't.

Yes it does. If the government starting lining people up and shooting them tomorrow the unions, Eirigi and SF would be out protesting it and you would be cosseted in your ****ing bedroom mumbling about how terrible it is but unfortunately you cant go along with anything remotely associated with them nasty fellows.

Meanwhile the rest of us poor ****in eejits will try and make a stand, however futile without our cowardly, slow-witted countrymens support, to protect YOUR interests.

Krusader

My name is URL wrote: »

Would we really be any worse off in the long-term if we just defaulted and started afresh? What's the worst that can happen? What % of our GDP is going to be spent on paying off the interest on the bailout over the next 20 years or so? And what happens when Spain finally follows us and goes belly up? It'll take trillions to bail them out! I mean one of the reasons we have this bailout is to keep the euro from collapsing.. and it will collapse, eventually. Why should the Irish people be indebted for generations to come in order to delay the demise of this failed currency?

Exactly, this is how i feel, Portugal will go next then it will domino on to Spain because of their obvious links and the euro will be fúcked, it's destined to fail

alphasounds

The population gained only the small copper.
The money was made selling & bidding for
Morgage packets at the stock marked.
The telly was full of "buy a house" propaganda.
The loans were only created to sell these packets.
Now we are supposed to pay for the false money created.
And it will be used against the population again.
Even the slaves in Rome had the right to work.

maxxie

I always wondered about the mentality of the people who shouted you should be fighting in france at the young men involved in the rising.

From reading many posts by people here now I get. They do not see the bigger picture but are completely plugged into the system..

20Cent

I am going and would urge as many people as possible to go also. It is now bigger than unions, public v private or any of that stuff. That can be fixed later. There will not be another chance for another big protest before the budget. Our country is about to be sold out from under us.
If you don't like unions go to the Dail or wherever you think is appropriate to make your point.
If you see or sense trouble move away from it. Don't let other groups dissuade you from making your point. It is apathy that got us here, FF keep getting elected because they stick together through thick and thin. If you oppose FF hold your nose this one time because it is vital they are out of Gov asap and we have new leadership.

In the future when your kids ask you what you did when Ireland was sold you should be able to look them in the eye and say you at least did something.

Chinasea

20Cent wrote: »

In the future when your kids ask you what you did when Ireland was sold you should be able to look them in the eye and say you at least did something.

Agreeing with the Unions with their jobs worth mentaility and the hard core work shy brigade that they attract is certainly not doing anything for Ireland

RoodBoi

20Cent wrote: »

I am going and would urge as many people as possible to go also. It is now bigger than unions, public v private or any of that stuff. That can be fixed later. There will not be another chance for another big protest before the budget. Our country is about to be sold out from under us.
If you don't like unions go to the Dail or wherever you think is appropriate to make your point.
If you see or sense trouble move away from it. Don't let other groups dissuade you from making your point. It is apathy that got us here, FF keep getting elected because they stick together through thick and thin. If you oppose FF hold your nose this one time because it is vital they are out of Gov asap and we have new leadership.

In the future when your kids ask you what you did when Ireland was sold you should be able to look them in the eye and say you at least did something.

Perfectly put. People heed this. Get out there, you'll be ashamed you didn't in later life. Put aside your petty alliances for one day. Band together. I know it's been said a million times but unity is the key here. They can ignore the people, yes, but only for so long and until the screams get too loud for them to ignore. More voices = more results.

My name is URL

Crosáidí wrote: »

Exactly, this is how i feel, Portugal will go next then it will domino on to Spain because of their obvious links and the euro will be fúcked, it's destined to fail

It has already failed. What successful currency depends on crippling the people spending it in order to survive? This bailout is as much for the banks of other countries as it is for us. Those banks are doing right now; what the people in favor of the bailout seem to be so vocal about in regards to the mistakes Ireland made.. lending to those who cannot realistically afford repayments. When it hits Spain it won't be the beginning of the end.. it will be the end of the beginning of the process of this currency vanishing.

We should just default now and have done with it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwSrX6NPafk

Fluorescence

I'm starting to get really sick of all the people who cry that every single person in this country is responsible in some way for the current crisis (it's simply not true)! Now is not the time to be turning the finger on each other and quibbling about who's fault it is; it is the time for action. It's time to say, "I've had enough!", put the past behind us and start working on our future. It's time to get rid of the government that's failed us and get some new people in office ASAP to work out the budget that they will be dealing with. We need to get new blood in the Dáil to say, "Let the Euro collapse! It's going to go that way sooner or later!" and renege on our gaurantee to the banks. We need a fresh start.

I guess I've decided to go tomorrow after all :pac:. Where are all the peaceful protesters going to be? I have no wish to stand under the union banners...

20Cent

RoodBoi wrote: »

Perfectly put. People heed this. Get out there, you'll be ashamed you didn't in later life. Put aside your petty alliances for one day. Band together. I know it's been said a million times but unity is the key here. They can ignore the people, yes, but only for so long and until the screams get too loud for them to ignore. More voices = more results.

Like most people I am sickened by what is happening. In order to keep my sanity and stop myself just falling into despair I've decided to do whatever I can. FF are preparing to make us debt slaves for the next few decades at least. Everything they told us has turned out to be wrong. We need them out before they will ruin this country even more than they have already.

If you don't like unions there are plenty of others having different protests I've seen a few links already in this thread. Otherwise just stand in the street with a sign or spend the day writing letters or emails, go to your local FF office, tell your td's what you want to happen, get involved with groups working for change, but for Gods sake do something.

alphasounds

I think it is important to show the rest of Europa that
not all Irish citizen are waiting to get they shares bailed out.