Protest March 27/11/2010

geespot

so real madrid what is this protest going to acheive and what is the best outcome you would like to see from this waste of time

Fluorescence

geespot wrote: »

so real madrid what is this protest going to acheive and what is the best outcome you would like to see from this aste of time

What do you intend to do to try to make some fcuking difference?

tinkerbell

Don't ye get it? There is NOTHING you can do. The IMF are here, the country cannot support itself any longer. Protest away til your hearts content but it's pointless.

realmadrid

fluorescence wrote: »

What do you intend to do to try to make some fcuking difference?

exactly what are you going to do to make a diff?!!! I dont see it as a waste of time

BeefJerkyX

Dowdy wrote: »

I hadn't really planned on going at all, but I'm ****ing livid now after hearing about the 6.7% interest rate... Jesus christ almighty. If Fianna Fáil had any balls now they'd threaten to default.

It's a foregone conclusion that FF will be out in a matter of weeks. They're under pressure from Europe. They'll just make the deal and go. This is why it makes no sense to let the ones who are getting booted out lock us into deals on their way out the door. It's pure insanity.

None of this should happen until after an election. Yeah, we could end up with another bunch of gob****es, as seems to be the Irish way, but they'd be gob****es who'd have to answer for their budget and make it work.

Fluorescence

tinkerbell wrote:

Don't ye get it? There is NOTHING you can do. The IMF are here, the country cannot support itself any longer. Protest away til your hearts content but it's pointless.

Don't YOU get it?! We can say NO! We can say we don't want the IMF's money! We can say we don't want to pour money into the black hole that is the banks! We can say we want to start from scratch and build a new future for ourselves with a new system! We have a say in how this country is run!

So much that has happened in the last 2 years should rightfully have been put to referendum, yet wasn't. It's time for us to stand up and demand to have a choice! Rolling over and accepting the only fate this government is securing for us is not enough :mad::mad::mad::mad:

squod

tinkerbell wrote: »

Don't ye get it? There is NOTHING you can do. The IMF are here, the country cannot support itself any longer. Protest away til your hearts content but it's pointless.

That isn't the case. There's a simple matter of consent, which would be solved easily if a general election was called tomorrow.

The country is fine I might add. What we absolutely have to do is separate it's private debts now, before the IMF & FF get their way.

realmadrid

oh where do I start? !!!! The IMF are here yes the deal they offer is not mandatory. The soverign state debt taken seperately is payable. Its the debt from the banks that is the problem. We could default is one option. But this is about the protest. I have the right to protest so do you.I will protest and you may not.Up to you. But I def dont see it as a waste of time and 60k others dont either

tinkerbell

The problem is that you can't get a general election unless FF say so. And they will not do that. They want to get this in and after that, they'll get out. But they don't want to get out of government before it.

squod

It bears repeating..........

Let me quote Mr Rehn's admirably frank reminder: "We need to recall that sovereign debt has not been at the origin of the crisis. Rather, private debt has become public debt. The financial sector has misallocated resources in the economy and then stopped working."

People are telling you this over and over again, the problems with the banks should have been sorted shortly after the blanket guarantee was issued. FF chose not to do that, that is the reason we're in this mess. It is not the fault of the people of this country and we are not responsible for the debts of developers, bankers and gamblers.

Fluorescence

tinkerbell wrote: »

The problem is that you can't get a general election unless FF say so. And they will not do that. They want to get this in and after that, they'll get out. But they don't want to get out of government before it.

They do seem doggedly determined to stick to their plan to release the budget and then fcuk off, but the fact of the matter is by the time they're gone it'll be too late. The agreement with the IMF will be finalised and we'll be stuck with it. There'll be no chance to change things then.

We need to shout loud and clear now that we don't want this. The more we say it the more chance there is that they'll listen (or at least enough TDs will listen and lodge a vote of no confidence before budget day). There's a small chance we can make a difference, and we have to grab it while it's there.

realmadrid

exactly!

squod

tinkerbell wrote: »

The problem is that you can't get a general election unless FF say so. And they will not do that. They want to get this in and after that, they'll get out. But they don't want to get out of government before it.

FF has a small number of backers, independents and Greens who need to be persuaded. Our rights should not come before banks.

BeefJerkyX

Flourescence is right. The deal is NOT done. This is NOT over. Not yet. There are many ways this can play out. Other countries have refused IMF deals.

There are many ways this can turn around right now, one being that the government can't get their budget through or an election is forced before the budget. This could be done. It's just not happening.

But, with an election happening one way or another, there is an opportunity for some politicians to come out of this looking good simply for resisting what is going on. That's why I reckon (and it's a thought I don't like) that Sinn Fein are going to come out of this with a boost. Fine Gael are currently playing it safe - taking it as a given that they're in next but letting FF take the responsibility of the budget that buggers the country.

But the mood of the country could inspire more not to play it safe. Not to accept the budget or IMF before an election.

Bottom line - it's NOT too late. We CAN change this. But not if you're sitting on your arses doing nothing. I don't have a problem with those of you pissed off with the unions and boycotting a union march. I do think this is much bigger than unions but I understand. But please at least do something else, somewhere else or in your own way. At least try.

Do nothing and nothing will change. Yes, you'll have the smug satisfaction that you were right all along. But you'll be living in crap having done jack about it. Worse still, you're dooming the young in this country to that crap and, whatever about us, they haven't done a damn thing to deserve this.

tinkerbell

If people in this country were so anti-FF, then how come 21% of the votes today went to FF in Donegal ... they got the 2nd highest votes in the count :eek: People don't learn, they just keep voting them in. Evidence today by the results in Donegal - FF should have gotten zero votes yet ended up getting the 2nd highest amount.

Ulysses Gaze

People should go to the protest march, but as soon as 'Central Bank' Begg and/or 'FAS' McLoone start to speak? Turn your backs and walk towards Leinster House.

Don't let the fact that the Beards are organising this deter you from turning up.

Ulysses Gaze

tinkerbell wrote: »

If people in this country were so anti-FF, then how come 21% of the votes today went to FF in Donegal ... they got the 2nd highest votes in the count :eek: People don't learn, they just keep voting them in. Evidence today by the results in Donegal - FF should have gotten zero votes yet ended up getting the 2nd highest amount.

Donegal is FF heartland - 21% is shocking. That's a 29% drop on their performance in 2007.

squod

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Don't let the fact that the Beards are organising this deter you from turning up.

+1

Fluorescence

BeefJerkyX wrote: »

Fine Gael are currently playing it safe - taking it as a given that they're in next but letting FF take the responsibility of the budget that buggers the country.

Actually FG seem to want FF out now and bring out their own budget - at least that's what Bruton was saying on Frontline a few days ago after the bail-out was announced. Pat Kenny was even saying, "Wouldn't it be easier for ye lot if FF did up the budget and then you guys came to power?" [/paraphrase] and Bruton replied that the government that drew up the budget should be the one to see it put in place.

FG seem to be making a lot of steps in the right direction, and are the only ones talking about any real kind of political reform. They're far from perfect, but they could be the only decent party choice we have.

Cheap Thrills!

tinkerbell wrote: »

Don't ye get it? There is NOTHING you can do. The IMF are here, the country cannot support itself any longer. Protest away til your hearts content but it's pointless.

Who told you there is nothing we can do? FF?

There is a lot of scaremongering about marching in Ireland, it used to be, it'll cause a run on the banks, then it was it'll spook the market, then it was the IMF, this, that, I don't agree with Eirigi/the unions/lefties etc blah blah blah, all that has ALREADY happened.

It may well be cheaper for us to default on these loans. I'm sure you know the taxpayer has no legal/moral obligation to pay back these private, gambling debts?

Independant opinion from outside Ireland are in disbelief that we are signing on the dotted line here. The IMF are sniggering up their sleeves, 85 billion at 6.7% ???? That's a life sentance for us all, and you know what we STILL might have to default down the line anyway!

I don't like the deal that's been agreed either. I want the Croke park agreement smashed. The deal has totally let the PS off the hook, nothing against the PS personally as people, especially the front line, but there is so much duplication, inefficiency and bloated vanity managers at the top end that major surgery is needed. Sorry and all but we the taxpayer can't carry passengers out of pity.

There is no growth stimulus stuff so how in hell is employment to be created. Anyway, it's all been said before.

This IMF deal is wrong, we don't have to accept it. Europe is absolutely at our mercy to accept it or the euro could go down. So what does FF do? Like bold boys who've been caught out they agree to everything Europe wants, including the disasterously high rate.

We could at least negotiate a way better rate, we have the leverage. But no FF are amateurs way out of their depths. And if we have to take these cuts I want them done differently. Way differently. Why the hell should the poor pay for the Rich's stupidity and greed?

We dont. We have a choice, we can default. There will be other consequences to that, no doubt but it's better for Ireland not Europe.

Cheap Thrills!

tinkerbell wrote: »

If people in this country were so anti-FF, then how come 21% of the votes today went to FF in Donegal ... they got the 2nd highest votes in the count :eek: People don't learn, they just keep voting them in. Evidence today by the results in Donegal - FF should have gotten zero votes yet ended up getting the 2nd highest amount.

Because all the old people heard the leaks that FF wouldn't touch the pension and they voted FF.

And also as this was held on a Thursday, many students were at college elsewhere in the country and not available to vote. And the rest of the young people eligible to vote have emigrated. Young people do not tend to vote FF.

(According to Noreen1 who lives there.)

Darlughda

fluorescence wrote: »

Actually FG seem to want FF out now and bring out their own budget - at least that's what Bruton was saying on Frontline a few days ago after the bail-out was announced. Pat Kenny was even saying, "Wouldn't it be easier for ye lot if FF did up the budget and then you guys came to power?" [/paraphrase] and Bruton replied that the government that drew up the budget should be the one to see it put in place.

FG seem to be making a lot of steps in the right direction, and are the only ones talking about any real kind of political reform. They're far from perfect, but they could be the only decent party choice we have.

Bollix. Same lot, Different name.

We need a radical reform of the Irish politcal system from the top down, and these old parties that play rhetoric games, and are at the end of the day nearly impossible to play spot the difference from FF, should be removed from the cronyism, parish pump politics and attending at funerals game to ensure the family legacy of re-election have to be removed.

We need to radically overhaul the Dáil situation. Fintan O'Toole puts this much better than I, idealistic it may be, but squabbling with the 'opposition' to gain votes,and avoiding questions is no longer acceptable from any politician.

geespot

i acn understand people protesting but i wont because i have a job an iam making as much now as i was in the boom i also have a small mortage which i can afford because i wasnt willing to pay a crippling debt just to have a bigger house than my neighbour also some of the cuts wont be any harm i work at least 12 hours a day an was talking to somebody with 2 children who gets more on welfare than i do for working

squod

geespot wrote: »

i acn understand people protesting but i wont because i have a job an iam making as much now as i was in the boom i also have a small mortage which i can afford because i wasnt willing to pay a crippling debt just to have a bigger house than my neighbour also some of the cuts wont be any harm i work at least 12 hours a day an was talking to somebody with 2 children who gets more on welfare than i do for working

If you want to pay the debts of gamblers and developers, that's great. We'll send you the bill so.

OPENROAD

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

Because all the old people heard the leaks that FF wouldn't touch the pension and they voted FF.

And also as this was held on a Thursday, many students were at college elsewhere in the country and not available to vote. And the rest of the young people eligible to vote have emigrated. Young people do not tend to vote FF.

(According to Noreen1 who lives there.)

I take your overall point, but if they wanted to vote they could have done.

Cheap Thrills!

geespot wrote: »

i acn understand people protesting but i wont because i have a job an iam making as much now as i was in the boom i also have a small mortage which i can afford because i wasnt willing to pay a crippling debt just to have a bigger house than my neighbour also some of the cuts wont be any harm i work at least 12 hours a day an was talking to somebody with 2 children who gets more on welfare than i do for working

I've a small mortgage too but I wouldn't get too comfortable with saying; 'I'm alright Jack'

There'll be big pain, unfair pain in this for us all.

Fluorescence

Darlughda wrote: »

Bollix. Same lot, Different name.

We need a radical reform of the Irish politcal system from the top down, and these old parties that play rhetoric games, and are at the end of the day nearly impossible to play spot the difference from FF, should be removed from the cronyism, parish pump politics and attending at funerals game to ensure the family legacy of re-election have to be removed.

We need to radically overhaul the Dáil situation. Fintan O'Toole puts this much better than I, idealistic it may be, but squabbling with the 'opposition' to gain votes,and avoiding questions is no longer acceptable from any politician.

A lot of their policies do seem a bit idealistic, but as I see it they could be our best shot. That said, if Amhrán Nua got a decent amount of members and their name in every household they could do really well and get us somewhere.

geespot wrote:

i acn understand people protesting but i wont because i have a job an iam making as much now as i was in the boom i also have a small mortage which i can afford because i wasnt willing to pay a crippling debt just to have a bigger house than my neighbour also some of the cuts wont be any harm i work at least 12 hours a day an was talking to somebody with 2 children who gets more on welfare than i do for working

We're not just protesting the cuts (I'm not anyway - I see them as necessary and totally agree), we're protesting being condemned to pay off private debts for the rest of our lives. If you don't want the people who risked it all and lost it to pay for their own mistakes, and feel that you should give a helping hand then I'd understand why you're not protesting. That doesn't seem to be the case though.

Cheap Thrills!

OPENROAD wrote: »

I take your overall point, but if they wanted to vote they could have done.

I suppose so, but the point is FF made it inconvenient for them to. A student from Donegal living in cork/Dublin/Galway would have to cut college for 2 days twords the end of year assessments/exam preparations or else pay for a return trip home to vote and then go back for Friday

.....ahh anyway, was just explaining why FF got second when you'd have expected them to be annihilated as you'd have expected.

OPENROAD

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

I suppose so, but the point is FF made it inconvenient for them to. A student from Donegal living in cork/Dublin/Galway would have to cut college for 2 days twords the end of year assessments/exam preparations or else pay for a return trip home to vote and then go back for Friday

.....ahh anyway, was just explaining why FF got second when you'd have expected them to be annihilated as you'd have expected.

Why couldn't they do it in one day, have never been to that part of the country but do they not have a train/bus service.

I do take your point and am shocked that FF have got second but sadly I am slowly starting to give up on this country to be honest

geespot

does anybody think that the protest tomoro is going to make a difference all the parties that or likely to make up the next goverment or going to do what the e.u make them if ihad my way we wouldnt pay the debt we would pull out of eu and euro and hope for the best as i would rather be broke and able to make or own decisions but that aint going to happen unless everybody vates for sinn fein and that aint going to happen i will be working tomoro not freezing my nuts off on the streets in dublin