Protest March 27/11/2010

Degsy

What need you, being come to sense,
But fumble in a greasy till
And add the halfpence to the pence
And prayer to shivering prayer, until
You have dried the marrow from the bone;
For men were born to pray and save;
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

Yet they were of a different kind,
The names that stilled your childish play,
They have gone about the world like wind,
But little time had they to pray
For whom the hangman's rope was spun,
And what, God help us, could they save?
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

Was it for this the wild geese spread
The grey wing upon every tide;
For this that all that blood was shed,
For this Edward Fitzgerald died,
And Robert Emmet and Wolfe Tone,
All that delirium of the brave?
Romantic Ireland's dead and gone,
It's with O'Leary in the grave.

Yet could we turn the years again,
And call those exiles as they were
In all their loneliness and pain,
You'd cry `Some woman's yellow hair
Has maddened every mother's son':
They weighed so lightly what they gave.
But let them be, they're dead and gone

They're with O'Leary in the grave.

h2pogo

Wibbs wrote: »

Yep but Gandhi did most damage by hitting those who sought to oppress him in the pocket. Not by the usual fcukwit anarchist breaking shop windows type. They're just morons who like seeing things burn. Gandhi knew the difference. You want to make a difference? Then do something small but widespread. Something like a majority refuse to pay, I dunno, bin charges. Just stop. Let it pile up. It's the winter so it wont smell so much. Start a collective fund to cover the legal costs of those who get prosecuted. If even 60% did that it would send a very clear message that the people want change. Far more than any 10 or 20,000 marching up to the GPO.

Then of course the people would need to decide who they wanted to make that change. If it's the union muppets count me out and count out anyone with the ability to oppose their thumbs and chew gum at the same time. That's when it gets hard. It's grand now when people are just angry and need an outlet, but get back to us all when an actual plan is mooted.

True enough..but I think he also organized protests and called for civil disobedience..which unfortunately lead to the death of lots of protesters..

Here is a way we can hurt the international banksters and protect our wealth..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Eph-xTTACQ

We could all refuse to pay our taxes as this government is not representing us.

Darlughda

Ana mhaith, a Dhegsy for remembering your soundings.

Now, other than spouting your usual vile regarding receipients of social welfare being the scum of the planet, have you anything useful to add or indeed, what the hell are you doing tomorrow?

Sonnenblumen

Wibbs wrote: »

Regardless we're looking at history as we speak.

Each and every day is part of history. I wish all protesters a nice day but when all the shouting, singing and screaming is done, only productive action will resolve Ireland's woes.

Cheap Thrills!

Tsudun wrote: »

So maybe not violence, but let's say people decide to, for the sake of mass inconvenience decide to stand at the gates of the Dáil, and refuse to move at all.

It's a Saturday. No Dail in session=no inconvenience to cause.
AND apparently the Dail will be cordoned off.

Tsudun wrote: »

Then the Gardaí turn hostile when the "official protest" is over, and thousands of people stand their ground.

It's a wild leap to imagine the Gardai suddenly 'turning hostile' against imaginary 'thousands standing their ground' -there are not thousands who will join in with any type of violence or trouble and that includes being trapped behind barriers or in dead end situations.

You will get your 200-300 gobsh!tes who might try that but the rest of the crowd have families and lives to go home to after giving maybe 2 hours to a peaceful protest. That's all.

Tsudun wrote: »

The Gardaí then unleash the riot squads and the Cavalry. What then? It's not a protest if it has an "end time". The end time should be when things change, and when a compromise is reached.

It's almost as if you are daydreaming or fantasising in a very naive way about storming the Bastille or something. I disagree with it's not a protest if it has no 'end time' -that sounds like belligerent rhetoric from someone with an agenda.

Tsudun wrote: »

Then another fence, this government is a corrupt right wing capitalist government, that does not do agreements. My point is, a peaceful 4 hour march is uneffective. Can we reach a compromise of more radical than the comfortable option for the Elite, but less radical than absolute anarchy? And where is that line?

A peaceful 2 hour march is all I'm preapared to give. I am not interested in radical 'solutions'. You don't know whether a 2 or 4 hour march will be ineffective until we've tried it. It'll be covered by international news and maybe it'll send a message to Europe that we've now reached tipping point.

We don't need violence or riots or ANY negative encounters with the Gardai, who are suffering just as much as anyone else in all of this.

Fluorescence

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Each and every day is part of history. I wish all protesters a nice day but when all the shouting, singing and screaming is done, only productive action will resolve Ireland's woes.

What do you propose? (genuine question) I feel a need to do something, anything, that could possibly have a chance (even the tiniest) of affecting the current situation. If you (or anyone else for that matter) can come up with ideas and get the ball rolling I'd be with you in a flash with countless others. We need to take action now and at the minute tomorrow's protest is the only thing I see that could make a difference.

Please tell me I'm wrong or shortsighted. Give me options.

OPENROAD

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

It'll be covered by international news and maybe it'll send a message to Europe that we've now reached tipping point.

Sadly we are a small insignificant dot in Europe,a two hour march won't change that nor will it send any message to Europe.

Fluorescence

OPENROAD wrote: »

Sadly we are a small insignificant dot in Europe,a two hour march won't change that nor will it send any message to Europe.

Not true - they're watching our every move at the moment. We're crucial to their economies staying put.

OPENROAD

fluorescence wrote: »

Not true - they're watching our every move at the moment. We're crucial to their economies staying put.

You miss my point, a lot more at stake here then little old Ireland, do you honestly think they will think oh the Irish have had a two hour march on a Saturday, we must change things, honestly? The future of the Euro and far bigger economies are at stake.

Sonnenblumen

fluorescence wrote: »

What do you propose? (genuine question) I feel a need to do something, anything, that could possibly have a chance (even the tiniest) of affecting the current situation. If you (or anyone else for that matter) can come up with ideas and get the ball rolling I'd be with you in a flash with countless others. We need to take action now and at the minute tomorrow's protest is the only thing I see that could make a difference.

Please tell me I'm wrong or shortsighted. Give me options.

Ireland needs tax receipts (more tax revenue), so if you cannot spend more, earn more. If this isn't possible find means to assist Ireland spend less. This is positive action.

Marching will not improve Ireland's fundamental crisis which is the State's expenditures are much higher than incomes. You can tackle the equation from two sides. The sooner the imbalance is corrected the better. Biting the lender's hand will only make matters worse for more people.

Cheap Thrills!

OPENROAD wrote: »

Sadly we are a small insignificant dot in Europe,a two hour march won't change that nor will it send any message to Europe.

lol Europe are terrified we'll default, if we do it'll bring a chain reaction that could see the euro fall. It'll be a major clusterfcuk for them if that happens.

They want to patch the sinking ship with this huge debt to the Irish taxpayer, but even that is possibly not going to save the euro. It may only delay its demise.

So in that way what we do next is extremely significant to them.

In the worst case scenario we take this bad deal and then default a year later anyway. We are being made scapegoats for Europe-wide market problems.

Krusader

tony montana 0 wrote: »

i will be there , going to ****ing reck the place

Don't, it undermines everything else, there will be kids and people doing their shopping have a bit of sense

Fluorescence

OPENROAD wrote: »

You miss my point, a lot more at stake here then little old Ireland, do you honestly think they will think oh the Irish have had a two hour march on a Saturday, we must change things, honestly? The future of the Euro and far bigger economies are at stake.

The Euro may as well be down the toilet now. Europe has surely realised this and the Irish bailout is just their desperate attempt at a quick-fix solution.

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Ireland needs tax receipts (more tax revenue), so if you cannot spend more, earn more. If this isn't possible find means to assist Ireland spend less. This is positive action.

Marching will not improve Ireland's fundamental crisis which is the State's expenditures are much higher than incomes. You can tackle the equation from two sides. The sooner the imbalance is corrected the better. Biting the lender's hand will only make matters worse for more people.

It's all well and good to talk in abstract terms but what action do you feel we, as a people, can take to improve? You're basically saying we need to earn more and spend less as a country, but how do you propose we do that? Sure, taxing income more would help, but we need to shed the bank guarantees first. Otherwise cost-cutting measures will do nothing but fund the banks mistakes.

Krusader

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

lol Europe are terrified we'll default, if we do it'll bring a chain reaction that could see the euro fall. It'll be a major clusterfcuk for them if that happens.

They want to patch the sinking ship with this huge debt to the Irish taxpayer, but even that is possibly not going to save the euro. It may only delay its demise.

I think the fall of the euro is enevitable, Greece are struggling to pay their loan, i think we will aswell, Portugal are going to go and then Spain

20Cent

Email I recieved posting for those still making up their minds.
Sums it up for me.



This Saturday at 12 noon, starting at Wood Quay in Dublin, Citizens of Ireland will gather to protest and march to the GPO against the selling of Irish Sovereignty, against the harshest budget since the foundation of the State due on 7 December, against a Government which has brought this Country and the future of our children to the brink of an abyss.

The protest is organised by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions (ICTU) - URL to route map below. If, like me, you view ICTU with more than a jaundiced eye, you might be inclined to pass this one up. However, the issue is much, much bigger than ICTU. They are small fry in this. What is at stake is the future of our Country - the future of our young school children and our prospective and present Third-Level Students, the health and well-being of our sick and elderly, the quality of life of all citizens - regardless of whether they be classified as children, teenagers, students, public-sector or private-sector workers, unemployed or retired.

I outline, below, my reasons why I believe it is absolutely imperative that as many people as possible protest in Dublin on Saturday (Wood Quay, 12 noon), in what we should call a "citizens march", not an ICTU march. If you agree with me, perhaps you could pass this e-mail on to your friends and family and encourage them to attend along with yourself on Saturday. Here are some of my reasons:

We have a situation where the Irish Government is willingly acceding to being bullied into taking on additional massive loans on behalf of the Irish Public, in order to re-capitalise (i.e. bail out) our banks (yet again!). These banks will, in turn, pay the monies back to the European banks who are doing the bullying! This is being portrayed as bailing out Ireland. But, it is not! It is bailing out the Euro. Germany's Finance Minister, as reported on the RTE website, has said said as much:

"Germany's finance minister has said the fate of the shared European currency was at stake in the proposed bailout of Ireland.
Speaking in the German parliament, Wolfgang Schaeuble said: 'It's our common currency that's at stake.'
Mr Schaeuble said Germany must take responsibility 'otherwise there will be untold economic and social consequences for our country'."

See: http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1123/economy.html

This means that we, as a Country, should absolutely resist the IMF/EU so-called bailout -- at the very least, we should be dictating the terms for saving their skins, because they want us to take on these loans to save them having to pay instead. If we refuse, then the German and French Banks which recklessly lent the money to recklessly-lending Irish Banks, and the German and the French Governments will have to cough up instead - since it's a "common currency that's at stake", as Wolfgang Schaeuble has said, then the payment to solve it should come from all members of the Euro, and most importantly, from those who caused the problem. It should not simply be solved by burdening Ireland with a loan at penal interest rates and with austerity conditions attached, which will destroy the future of this nation. In other words, we must 'encourage' Mr. Schaeuble's Government and the others mentioned above to "take responsibility", as he puts it.

The issue for Saturday (Wood Quay, 12 noon) is to have a protest so large and strong, plus further follow-up protests and actions, that force the Government to hold an immediate election AND which also sends a message to a new Government in-waiting that they will be on the receiving end of the same massive protest and civil disobedience if they refuse to act in the interests of the Irish People but instead kow-tow to the "markets" which are only care about making a quick buck.

In my mind, staying at home is not an option.

OPENROAD

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

lol Europe are terrified we'll default, if we do it'll bring a chain reaction that could see the euro fall. It'll be a major clusterfcuk for them if that happens.

They want to patch the sinking ship with this huge debt to the Irish taxpayer, but even that is possibly not going to save the euro. It may only delay its demise.

So in that way what we do next is extremely significant to them.

In the worst case scenario we take this bad deal and then default a year later anyway. We are being made scapegoats for Europe-wide market problems.

Again missing the point, we are significant only from the point of view we could bring the whole thing down so do you honestly think marching for two hours will change anything either here or in Europe? What we do need are people in there who are going to get the best possible deal for us, that is where I would agree with you, but again I ask you, do you think once off two hour march will change policy??

Degsy

Darlughda wrote: »

Ana mhaith, a Dhegsy for remembering your soundings.

Now, other than spouting your usual vile regarding receipients of social welfare being the scum of the planet, have you anything useful to add or indeed, what the hell are you doing tomorrow?

I think the word you're looking for is "bile".

And i will add this..this country has gone soft..too many people afraid to get thir hands dirty,social welfare becoming a viable alternative to working and everybody waiting for the next "multinational" to come in and give us all jobs.

We used to be a proud nation,hardworking,industrious and independent...now we're going cap in hand to europe to bail us out of the mess Fianna Failure and its cronies have inflicted on us...and there are people who call themselves irish berating the handfull that still think that we shouldnt bow down without a fight.

The country is in tatters,Irish people bickering amongst themselves and still the trashy gang of criminals inflict more and more hardship on the people.

Remember the German economic miracle?

Thier country was bombed flat and still they rebuilt it from the ground up... Where was the dole? Where was thier bailout?.
We have a self-made financial crisis brought about not by war but by our own leadership..our own government has destoroyed us....and people dont even want to oppose whats happening??

As a nation we're a disgrace.. we have to act now and act every day of the week till we can call ourselves Irish again.

OPENROAD

fluorescence wrote: »

The Euro may as well be down the toilet now. Europe has surely realised this and the Irish bailout is just their desperate attempt at a quick-fix solution.

Sadly you may well be right, that is why I asked people what they thought of the whole Euro experiment now?

francie81

At the end of the day Europe needs us more than we need them right now and I think a default is imminent should this appauling government don't play hard ball on a 6.7%.

I'll be there today with no intention to cause trouble but I tell you one thing I hope its the first of many and I mean these protests need to go one step further to get the message across by shutting the whole country down and keep doing this to show europe the people of Ireland mean business it's called power to the people - bring it on, f*** angela merkel in her nazi policies if it wasn't for america we'd be probly be speaking german today - bring it on.

Darlughda

Degsy wrote: »

this country has gone soft..too many people afraid to get thir hands dirty,As a nation we're a disgrace.. we have to act now and act every day of the week till we can call ourselves Irish again.

Yah yah Degsy, your usual rhetoric, spare us your romantic nationalist notions. The only thing I ever liked about you was the sig you used to have re: Bono-pay tax you dirty midget.


So, as a long term social welfare recipient, do you have a problem with me? Clue: read whole thread before you reply.

And, as I asked you before, what the hell are you doing tomorrow?

Fluorescence

It was (still is) a good idea but sadly went wrong due to wreckless lending all over the place.

andrewdeerpark

This anger will all pass, I hope, as people who say things can get better through anarchy are only anarchists themselves and hence no good for man or beast.

Lets pause for a moment, with the austerity we have hope, however BE WARNED we can sink lower: our banks can fail, ATM's will not work, national power grid will fail, FDI companies leave on mass, water disrupted or gone....etc their is another lower level and a level below that again, so those wishing anarchy and social disorder should pause and reflect on what is still working, we need to STOP right now and begin rebuilding not continue on a destructive path that will ultimately leave the weaker in society much worse off; or maybe that's what the bearded lefties, shinners and Looney’s want!

Tearing the country apart for the sake of left wing Looney communism this whole attitude that we are being wronged is madness.

This whole euro bashing is just a cheap shot as a world wide problem of abuse of cheap credit: the US, UK, Spain etc are in the same s**t just off the headlines at the moment, this storm will pass. The English right wing press love this Euro bashing (Daily Express, Sky news etc) no realising that sinking the currency is killing London's financial economy (the UK biggest sector) if it comes to pass. Someone would want to have a good chat with their owners and explain the pearl the whole system is in it their "dancing on the EU grave comes to pass": top class idiots all (Rupert Murdock etc).

Krusader

Degsy wrote: »

Thier country was bombed flat and still they rebuilt it from the ground up... Where was the dole? Where was thier bailout?.

In fairness to this point Germany have massive resources compared to us especially in the Rhineland,
Our greatest resource was handed over to Shell

francie81

Degsy wrote: »

I think the word you're looking for is "bile".

And i will add this..this country has gone soft..too many people afraid to get thir hands dirty,social welfare becoming a viable alternative to working and everybody waiting for the next "multinational" to come in and give us all jobs.

We used to be a proud nation,hardworking,industrious and independent...now we're going cap in hand to europe to bail us out of the mess Fianna Failure and its cronies have inflicted on us...and there are people who call themselves irish berating the handfull that still think that we shouldnt bow down without a fight.

The country is in tatters,Irish people bickering amongst themselves and still the trashy gang of criminals inflict more and more hardship on the people.

Remember the German economic miracle?

Thier country was bombed flat and still they rebuilt it from the ground up... Where was the dole? Where was thier bailout?.
We have a self-made financial crisis brought about not by war but by our own leadership..our own government has destoroyed us....and people dont even want to oppose whats happening??

As a nation we're a disgrace.. we have to act now and act every day of the week till we can call ourselves Irish again.

Take my hat off to ya you have it all in one lad!

Degsy

Darlughda wrote: »

So, as a long term social welfare recipient, do you have a problem with me?

Why long term?

Its not supposed to be a lifestyle choice..

andrewdeerpark

francie81 wrote: »

Take my hat off to ya you have it all in one lad!

Ditto 100%.

I will not be protesting tomorrow.

h2pogo

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

This anger will all pass, I hope, as people who say things can get better through anarchy are only anarchists themselves and hence no good for man or beast.

Lets pause for a moment, with the austerity we have hope, however BE WARNED we can sink lower: our banks can fail, ATM's will not work, national power grid will fail, FDI companies leave on mass, water disrupted or gone....etc their is another lower level and a level below that again, so those wishing anarchy and social disorder should pause and reflect on what is still working, we need to STOP right now and begin rebuilding not continue on a destructive path that will ultimately leave the weaker in society much worse off; or maybe that's what the bearded lefties, shinners and Looney’s want!

Tearing the country apart for the sake of left wing Looney communism this whole attitude that we are being wronged is madness.

This whole euro bashing is just a cheap shot as a world wide problem of abuse of cheap credit: the US, UK, Spain etc are in the same s**t just off the headlines at the moment, this storm will pass. The English right wing press love this Euro bashing (Daily Express, Sky news etc) no realising that sinking the currency is killing London's financial economy (the UK biggest sector) if it comes to pass. Someone would want to have a good chat with their owners and explain the pearl the whole system is in it their "dancing on the EU grave comes to pass": top class idiots all (Rupert Murdock etc).

LoL

The EU is left wing Looney communism with the right wing rules of a nanny state..

The left/right was paradigm designed to divide.

Degsy

Crosáidí wrote: »

In fairness to this point Germany have massive resources compared to us especially in the Rhineland,
Our greatest resource was handed over to Shell

We have resources too..agriculture,tourism,manufacturing,fisheries,skilled labour,innovation and an above-average national intelligence..why shouldnt we be able to govern our own affairs?

Fluorescence

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

This anger will all pass, I hope, as people who say things can get better through anarchy are only anarchists themselves and hence no good for man or beast.

Lets pause for a moment, with the austerity we have hope, however BE WARNED we can sink lower: our banks can fail, ATM's will not work, national power grid will fail, FDI companies leave on mass, water disrupted or gone....etc their is another lower level and a level below that again, so those wishing anarchy and social disorder should pause and reflect on what is still working, we need to STOP right now and begin rebuilding not continue on a destructive path that will ultimately leave the weaker in society much worse off; or maybe that's what the bearded lefties, shinners and Looney’s want!

Tearing the country apart for the sake of left wing Looney communism this whole attitude that we are being wronged is madness.

Chances are when the Euro fails our country will collapse into anarchy anyway. Why not do it on our terms now than wait for it to happen later and hit harder?

We're going to be hit badly no matter what - it's inevitable. I think we have a better chance of survival if we go through a brief, painful period now rather than long, drawn-out decades of torture and stagnancy? The country will go nowhere until we hit rock bottom and work our way back up again. As I see it, we can do that now and get it over with or delay it and have it happen further down the line anyway. It may not come to that, but I have a gut feeling it will.

No matter what, things will suck for quite some time.

Ban Ki Moon

What time and where does the march take place?