Protest March 27/11/2010

Jim

My pics from today : http://pix.ie/jimeatsmenu/album/394970

Pics of the protest from boardsie will appear here : http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056102596 (please note no political discussion allowed in the thread)

Flygimp

Wibbs wrote: »

You're really having a laugh if you can claim your list doesn't include serious political corruption and lack of transparency among its number. Take Australia as an example. Just ask someone like tony fitzgerald the ex anti corruption commissioner and I quote "Australia has an amoral political culture run by a governing class preoccupied with amassing power for itself". Hang on here's a link for you http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/corruption-buster-slams-the-politics-of-deception/story-e6frg6nf-1225834052061 Sounds comfortably familiar and I don't see much danglie hanging goin on. The image of the straight talking Aussie who won't take shít is for the most part just as self delusional and imaginary as the image of Irish rebel.

Couple of quick examples from elsewhere?

Canada? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sponsorship_scandal

The UK? http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/leading-articles/millionaires-money-and-the-corruption-of-british-politics-593089.html Cash for questions anyone?

http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results Our score across the board beats the UK, France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, italy(well duh ) the US and we're only slightly behind Australia and if you read the link above it's hardly squeaky clean.

Corruption is everywhere in all societies. Like the poor it will always be with us. We dont corner the market in it here.

Nope "boy" and neither have you. Sovereignty is as much in the mind as it is in practical terms. It is not an either or, black or white concept anymore. Its a sliding scale. This goes even more so in the last century where the western nations are so closely linked. Fully sovereign modern nation today that doesn't rely on input from its neighbours? Switzerland? Probably, North Korea? well except for it's complete reliance on China.

As were the Aussies, New zealanders, Canadians, Scots, Welsh and the English working class too.

I worry when people start quoting wikipedia...

Every country has an element of political corruption that's a no brainer.
Do you really think linking one or two articles from your cyber sources is completely indictment of each of the countries democratic and political landscapes.

Corruption is not the only the primary focus here as in government systems being transparent, it is the legislation and political procedures in place to deal with corruption once exposed quickly and effectively. Eg. more currently the UK Parliamentary expenses scandal, now four British MP's face criminal charges pending...

You mention the palimentary system in Auz, yet their Government policies on financial regulation, are far more conservative and regulated than the circus that has unfolded in the banana republic of Ireland.

You compare Ireland for swiftness of justice to those who are the focus of political corruption... not one arrest of any banking director from AIB or Anglo for the millions they owe in bad debt - whilst they now seek asylum in the good old US with their pass ports intact. A political quagmire that is the investigation of a past Taoiseach who claim to have not one bank account to their name whilst in power. This current set of missing links over the past two years out right lying to the public over a range of political issues... you know the rest.

Still great turn out today in Dublin... here's hoping for some political sway or impact... one can only hope.

CDfm

Iorras55 wrote: »

At least that 40% are now coming to realise their stupidity. The (at least) 60%blame which lies with the wealthy tax evaders, the millionaires with the offshore accounts, the cronyism, the corrupt Government - as far as I can see they're still getting off the hook, scot free! They, each and every one of them should be thrown into jail without parole!

Like the Unions are part of this cronyism and the people at the Central Bank & Dept of Finance who had the responsibility to regulate the banks were all public sector workers who decided not to regulate. They were appointed by statute.

So ICTU's David Begg sat on the Central Bank Board & was part of the social partnership negeotiators, why is he not explaining himself.

It seem that he may be one of the croneys and backroom boys who is not elected.

So you want to jail him. There are a lot of people who would agree with you.

samsemtex

Flygimp wrote: »

I worry when people start quoting wikipedia...

I didnt read the rest of your post after that. Wikipedia is generally quite an accurate source of information. While I wouldnt base a PHD on what is written on it. It is a very good source of general info which is exactly the type of link he posted.

People who come out with that line to discredit an argument are generally full of crap themselves.

Flygimp

samsemtex wrote: »

I didnt read the rest of your post after that. Wikipedia is generally quite an accurate source of information. While I wouldnt base a PHD on what is written on it. It is a very good source of general info which is exactly the type of link he posted.

People who come out with that line to discredit an argument are generally full of crap themselves.

Sorry for hurting your feelings about wiki sweetheart, go dry your eyes.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Iorras55 wrote: »

At least that 40% are now coming to realise their stupidity. The (at least) 60%blame which lies with the wealthy tax evaders, the millionaires with the offshore accounts, the cronyism, the corrupt Government - as far as I can see they're still getting off the hook, scot free! They, each and every one of them should be thrown into jail without parole!

Wait, if I am a millionaire, I am to blame for this economic crisis? How so? Millionaires should be thrown in jail? Why?

Never ever hold a position of power. Seriously.

Selected

Photo says it all really.

El Horseboxo

Ray Square Hoagie wrote: »

Wait, if I am a millionaire, I am to blame for this economic crisis? How so? Millionaires should be thrown in jail? Why?

Never ever hold a position of power. Seriously.

Did you even read his post correctly? Seriously.

CDfm

dayshah wrote: »

They are against dole cuts, which affects the private sector.

But as a priority they are against cutting public service pay to achieve that which is the only option. Empty words.

Whatever about agreeing with ICTU's proposals or not, its simply wrong to say its to boost the public sector ahead of the private sector. Why then did so many private sector workers attend? Even if it was just to protect the public sector I'd rather give my tax money to a nurse than Roman Abramovich.

It more than likely is the money from savers is foreign banks which is at risk if their banks are not repaid. Ordinary people.

This thread is 50 pages long, but the sheer amount of ignorance is appalling. Yes David Begg was on the Central Bank's board. But what about the dissenting opinions included in board reports? Yes, those were written by the union board members who are on the record as being against the poor regulation, long before it was fashionable to do so.

So its buried in some board minutes and was not mentioned at trade union congresses , was not commented on in the press, and, no protest marches were held.

The Unions definately made an effort to highlight poor regulation.

Why didn't I read about it in the press ???

Ray Square Hoagie wrote: »

Wait, if I am a millionaire, I am to blame for this economic crisis? How so? Millionaires should be thrown in jail? Why?

Never ever hold a position of power. Seriously.

So the public servants wont go to jail then ???

It seems very odd that a public service that brought us the child abuse scandals thru not regulating responsibly brought us this.

The common denominator - public service workers except it is not 2 billion -its 85 billion.

dayshah

CDfm wrote: »

It more than likely is the money from savers is foreign banks which is at risk if their banks are not repaid. Ordinary people.

Some of it probably is in the pension funds of ordinary Germans and French. Well minimum wage workers, nurses, and Irish taxpayers are 'ordinary' people too. I want the Irish government to represent our ordinary people, and let Merkel and Sarkozy represent their own ordinary people.

CDfm wrote: »

Why didn't I read about it in the press ???

It was in the business section, buried. No-one in the media wanted to know about it at the time. When did papers like the Sunday Independent ever give unions a fair hearing? The media have their own agenda.

Seriously, if in 2005 the unions called a general strike, disrupted bus services, and held a big march, all due to financial regulation would you have supported it then??? I strongly doubt it. You'd probably have said they were a bunch of commies who just don't get financial markets.

Terry

k_mac wrote: »

Gardaí put the crowd at 50,000. Unions put the crowd at up to 150,000. Can we not come up with some agreed system to measure crowds? I'm sure every paper and news broadcast will have different figures.

It was about 20,000.
The other people were there shopping. It's quite normal to see that in Dublin of a Saturday.

Jim wrote: »

My pics from today : http://pix.ie/jimeatsmenu/album/394970

Pics of the protest from boardsie will appear here : http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056102596 (please note no political discussion allowed in the thread)

http://pix.ie/jimeatsmenu/2050716
Damn right there's a fairer and better way.
They should take turns rowing.

CDfm

dayshah wrote: »

Some of it probably is in the pension funds of ordinary Germans and French. Well minimum wage workers, nurses, and Irish taxpayers are 'ordinary' people too. I want the Irish government to represent our ordinary people, and let Merkel and Sarkozy represent their own ordinary people.

thats who the institutional ivestors are -the invest on behalf of ordinary people.

It was in the business section, buried. No-one in the media wanted to know about it at the time. When did papers like the Sunday Independent ever give unions a fair hearing? The media have their own agenda.

I did not read about it and I did read

I have similar qualifications to some of the union leaders and share economics lectures with at least one at college.

Lots of people would have sat up and listened .

Seriously, if in 2005 the unions called a general strike, disrupted bus services, and held a big march, all due to financial regulation would you have supported it then??? I strongly doubt it. You'd probably have said they were a bunch of commies who just don't get financial markets.

We didn't need a general strike but we needed the independent board members of the Central Bank to do the job they were mandated to do.

Did they let us down yes.

I know journalists who would have published., but, everyone assumed the regulators were regulating.

They didn't care and that is why.

RobitTV

News: big garda patrol Outside gov buildings, Gardai getting hit with bottle

laugh

I see the scum turned up again.

Sharkey 10

laugh wrote: »

I see the scum turned up again.

What scum?

Terry

RobitTV wrote: »

News: big garda patrol Outside gov buildings, Gardai getting hit with bottle

Just saw a banger go off beside a few Gardaí on sky news. They laughed it off.

steddyeddy

Iorras55 wrote: »

At least that 40% are now coming to realise their stupidity. The (at least) 60%blame which lies with the wealthy tax evaders, the millionaires with the offshore accounts, the cronyism, the corrupt Government - as far as I can see they're still getting off the hook, scot free! They, each and every one of them should be thrown into jail without parole!

what about the bankers livng beyond their means and us that our paying for it

bluefinger

was at the march and it was great. inspired to see so many people mobilised towards change. was right in front of the GPO. Grown men around me crying during the reading of the proclamation. Frances Black sang beautifully. hopefully there's more to come.

dayshah

CDfm wrote: »

We didn't need a general strike but we needed the independent board members of the Central Bank to do the job they were mandated to do.

Did they let us down yes.

I know journalists who would have published., but, everyone assumed the regulators were regulating.

They didn't care and that is why.

The union board members did their job. They put their dissenting views into the reports.

Its not their job to establish a newspaper to broadcast this view when papers like the Sunday Independent aren't interested.

I'm not happy with the union reps on the FÁS board, but I'm happy with the performance they put in with the Central Bank.

laugh

Sharkey 10 wrote: »

What scum?

Were the balaclava's for the weather?

Sharkey 10

laugh wrote: »

Were the balaclava's for the weather?

No presumably so they couldnt be identified and id imagine they would keep you nice and snug. I seem to remember the riot police wearing them at the student protests does that make them scum?

John_Rambo

laugh wrote: »

Were the balaclava's for the weather?

Where did you come across this "scum" on the march laugh?

macgrub

Did the SWP get much reaction/following/support today ?

CDfm

dayshah wrote: »

The union board members did their job. They put their dissenting views into the reports.

Dissenting views in reports were cover your ass reports.

Its not their job to establish a newspaper to broadcast this view when papers like the Sunday Independent aren't interested.

Newspapers print news and economists within the EU were discussing Ireland at that time. In fact, it was covered by George Hooks show.

Lots of people assumed the landing would be softer as the banks were regulated. The Regulator wasn't regulated and that is what the Independent Board Members Job was.

Hookie would have publicised it.

As I remember it, there was a huge amount of criticism given to Eddie Hobbs for his criticism of public service pay etc.

So why didn't they tell the Hobbit ??

I'm not happy with the union reps on the FÁS board, but I'm happy with the performance they put in with the Central Bank.

Then why were the Banks allowed to continue unregulated. The correct thing to do would have been to resign and say why.

Not good enough, I am afraid, they knew and kept a record and did not tell and that makes their actions far far worse.

I have named two media figures who would have publicised it and thats without even trying hard.

dayshah

CDfm wrote: »

I have named two media figures who would have publicised it and thats without even trying hard.

There was some coverage. A bit like with Morgan Kelly. It just was tucked away in the middle of the Last Word and so on, a few sentences given to the dissenting section. It wasn't given much prominence. Sure aren't all them commie union leaders unqualified? Would you really have paid attention?

Maybe they should have resigned in protest. I doubt anyone would have noticed at the time. I suppose it must have been a dilemma. Quit trying to change the system while on the board, or resign and try change it from outside where few people care about banking regulation.

Anyway, no way does he bear responsibility anywhere close to that of Neary, Seanie, or Cowen.

Turner

John_Rambo wrote: »

Where did you come across this "scum" on the march laugh?

The fella burning the picture wearing the balaclava is a scumbag.

It doesnt take a genius to work that one out.

Kev_ps3

Chief--- wrote: »

The fella burning the picture wearing the balaclava is a scumbag.

It doesnt take a genius to work that one out.

I suggest its the person he is burning is the scumbag.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

El Horseboxo wrote: »

Did you even read his post correctly? Seriously.

Obviously not...

John_Rambo

Chief--- wrote: »

The fella burning the picture wearing the balaclava is a scumbag

Why?

laugh

John_Rambo wrote: »

Why?

Burning effigies wearing a balaclava, people died so we could have a modern democracy.