Protest March 27/11/2010

partyatmygaff

wylo wrote: »

Sometimes things are being done for country that you may not realise will benefit you for years and years.
Please dont get me wrong, if you dont care , dont protest, but at least have appreciation for the people that do.

Pretty big difference between fighting for independence from a foreign country and fighting against inevitable budget cuts.

squod

Mark200 wrote: »

You're mistaking caring for our country for being fooled into thinking going for a walk down O'Connell Street can turn back time.

I don't get this, no budget has been passed yet. No deals signed off on, so why use that phrase?

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Pretty big difference between fighting for independence from a foreign country and fighting against inevitable budget cuts.

Nor do I get this

mickydoomsux

sonic85 wrote: »

but why dont people care though? were all living in the same country. its going down the tubes and some people dont care - sounds a bit bizzare to me. those people must be mega rich or something because none of this will affect them.

Why would they need to be mega-rich? They probably are in the majority working or middle class folks with average enough incomes. The recession may not have effected them much yet besides the income levy and a few upcoming taxes which might amount to €20-40 quid a week less.

Also, the country isn't "going down the tubes", that more hysteria. It's ticking over and has unfortunatly accrued huge debt but we are lucky enough to have the safety net of the EU and IMF to keep us from defaulting. If they weren't there we'd be going down the tubes alright.

OPENROAD

squod wrote: »

I don't get this, no budget has been passed yet. No deals signed off on, so why use that phrase?

By all accounts the bailout deal will be completed in less than 24 hours

partyatmygaff

OPENROAD wrote: »

As a matter of interest how much does she cost the state per year?

Her salary is 350K per year and a pension. Then there's the costs of her visits and representations. So all in all at most €5 million euro (At a rough estimate).

It would be a much more useful post if they abolished the senate and gave their powers to the president tbh.

Cheap Thrills!

partyatmygaff wrote: »

And what do you expect her to do seeing as she has no actual power? At best she could be called an ambassador and nothing more.

She probably is a figurehead and nothing much more, but maybe if we embarassed her enough with a huge peaceful march to the park, supposed seat of our Sovreign democracy we could pressure her to go to the country?

That's supposed to be one of her actual significant super-powers isn't it?

Mark200

humberklog wrote: »

Bit early to say but probably yeah. Which is to say that airing it on line is different?

So you have the absolutely cheek to refer to people who didn't attend the union march as "lazy tools" when you acknowledge the fact that the protest parade isn't even going to achieve anything? Ridiculous.

squod wrote: »

I don't get this, no budget has been passed yet. No deals signed off on, so why use that phrase?

Because big cuts have to be made. Everyone will be affected. Only the fine details will differ from party to party... but everyone is going to hurt regardless.

squod

OPENROAD wrote: »

By all accounts the bailout deal will be completed in less than 24 hours

We still need a budget before anything is drawn down.

ThisRegard

sonic85 wrote: »

mickydoomsux wrote: »

i think youve hit the nail on the head there to be honest. i was thinking that myself. basically most people couldnt give a toss. and if thats the case it really is a sad state of affairs

His/her post didn't say that.

sonic85

Mark200 wrote: »

You're mistaking caring for our country for being fooled into thinking going for a walk down O'Connell Street can turn back time. The protest won't achieve anything. It wasn't even intended for it to achieve anything. If you feel all good and proud of yourself for going to O'Connell Street today then fair enough. Good for you. But it won't change anything. And it wouldn't have changed anything regardless of the turnout.

errrrrr i wasnt there. never said i was. if you look back through the thread youll know how i feel. i wasnt there today but i do give a fcuk about the country

partyatmygaff

squod wrote: »

Nor do I get this

Then what exactly is being protested if not the budget cuts and the IMF bailout?

OPENROAD

mickydoomsux wrote: »

Why would they need to be mega-rich? They probably are in the majority working or middle class folks with average enough incomes. The recession may not have effected them much yet besides the income levy and a few upcoming taxes which might amount to €20-40 quid a week less.

Also, the country isn't "going down the tubes", that more hysteria. It's ticking over and has unfortunatly accrued huge debt but we are lucky enough to have the safety net of the EU and IMF to keep us from defaulting. If they weren't there we'd be going down the tubes alright.

ah thats ok, so we have sufficient funds to invest in infrastructure etc.... the potential interest payments on the bailout won't have much of an impact on us then. We can easily afford these paybacks?

Mark200

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Her salary is 350K per year and a pension. Then there's the costs of her visits and representations. So all in all at most €5 million euro (At a rough estimate).

It would be a much more useful post if they abolished the senate and gave their powers to the president tbh.

The Senate have pretty much no power. But yeah, suppose that would suit the Presidency.

wylo

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Pretty big difference between fighting for independence from a foreign country and fighting against inevitable budget cuts.

Listen , personally ive no problem with budget cuts, they are inevitable, the vast vast majority of people attending were venting anger at tying the Irish and European banks failures in gambling with the Irish tax payer.

Fair enough, the Unions did have that 'no to cuts' angle going on , but most people were there to protest the debt this country is about to incur which will result in a completely stagnant non productive economy for a very long time, possibly a life time.

partyatmygaff

Mark200 wrote: »

The Senate have pretty much no power. But yeah, suppose that would suit the Presidency.

Then abolish the senate and give the presidency their limited powers. Much less wasteful.+

OPENROAD

squod wrote: »

We still need a budget before anything is drawn down.

So the interest rate of the bailout can be adjusted?

Mark200

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Then abolish the senate and give the presidency their limited powers. Much less wasteful.+

Fine Gael's policy is to abolish the Senate.

squod

Mark200 wrote: »

Because big cuts have to be made. Everyone will be affected. Only the fine details will differ from party to party... but everyone is going to hurt regardless.

Again with the inevitable talk, it's like reading from an RTE website. Seriously, no budget = no consent to draw down the loan. Hopefully no fool in their right minds (outside of FF) would vote through a budget aimed at bailing gamblers private debts.

OPENROAD

Mark200 wrote: »

Fine Gael's policy is to abolish the Senate.

Thats a start

Cheap Thrills!

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Her salary is 350K per year and a pension. Then there's the costs of her visits and representations. So all in all at most €5 million euro (At a rough estimate).

It would be a much more useful post if they abolished the senate and gave their powers to the president tbh.

:eek: oh sh!t.

So the President has no actual useful special powers ????

The Senate? What can they do? Can we march there?


Wish I'd paid attention in Civics now.

humberklog

Mark200 wrote: »

So you have the absolutely cheek to refer to people who didn't attend the union march as "lazy tools" when you acknowledge the fact that the protest parade isn't even going to achieve anything? Ridiculous.

Ah no, and you make a good point. I was only directing it at those that want to march and yet throw every lazy excuse not to up on line.
It's where reality/on line interchange.

partyatmygaff

Mark200 wrote: »

Fine Gael's policy is to abolish the Senate.

Sounds good. Too bad I won't be able to vote for a while yet.

sonic85

ThisRegard wrote: »

His/her post didn't say that.

go back and read his/her post.

OPENROAD

squod wrote: »

Again with the inevitable talk, it's like reading from an RTE website. Seriously, no budget = no consent to draw down the loan. Hopefully no fool in their right minds (outside of FF) would vote through a budget aimed at bailing gamblers private debts.

They have the numbers apparently to pass the budget, a fact acknowledged by the opposition.

FG have said they are not bound by the terms of this budget, maybe so but I would say they are more or less bound by the actual total figure

Mark200

squod wrote: »

Again with the inevitable talk, it's like reading from an RTE website. Seriously, no budget = no consent to draw down the loan. Hopefully no fool in their right minds (outside of FF) would vote through a budget aimed at bailing gamblers private debts.

We need the loan. And no budget means causing huge problems for the EU due to uncertainty in the markets. In fact several opposition TDs are considering abstaining from the vote to allow the budget to pass if the Government don't have the numbers.

lmaopml

I think one of the major problems with these marches is that people don't really know what 'banner' they are marching under and shy away from misrepresentation..

I personally, don't like to see the 'GET THIS GOVERNMENT OUT' banner or the 'UP THE TRADE UNION' banner or, 'THIS IS ALL ABOUT THE BUDGET - JUST STOP IT' banners etc. etc. or some party politics with some councellor or lefty TD. I know that they generally get monopolised by some and many people march for their own reasons..

Still, I think 50,000 people out in the snow today was cool, it's only a pity that the 'newspapers' focus on certain things....I'll admit I wasn't there, I have two little ones, and even still I don't like signing my name even with my shoes to any agendas before I know the facts..

I think people are generally bamboozled by the media and not a little by the political hooring of various economists or politicians in general in the media. It's all words words words - people are trying to give the talks a chance and wait till the 'definitive' version of the 'bailout' comes out, to weigh up the pros and cons - that's actually a good thing imo.

Defaulting is always an option, but most people do understand that it's not exactly a loud speaker affair..

Lads, if the 'bailout' is unsustainable we will know in a few months time, I don't give a sh!t what puppet is in power - Irish people are not that dumb.

I'll hike my two on my shoulders if and when I know the details for sure - I won't let anybody blow their motives up my ass beforehand..

ThisRegard

Don't need to.

Mark200

OPENROAD wrote: »

FG have said they are not bound by the terms of this budget, maybe so but I would say they are more or less bound by the actual total figure

I believe they said the 4 year plan, not the budget.

squod

OPENROAD wrote: »

So the interest rate of the bailout can be adjusted?

The bailout is aimed at fixing the private debts of banks, gamblers and developers. Our sovereign debts won't need this finance. We're in a different boat completely to say Greece. the interest rates being charged are extortionate anyway.

OPENROAD

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

:eek: oh sh!t.

So the President has no actual useful special powers ????

The Senate? What can they do? Can we march there?


Wish I'd paid attention in Civics now.

I wonder how the cost of the president compares to other smaller economies?