Russian Middle Class

Moomoo1

survivor2 wrote: »

Population of the country continues to steadily decline.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Population_of_Russia.PNG

notice that the turning point is in the early 90's.

Moomoo1

DanDan6592 wrote: »

With regards the Uni's again i would argue that this isn't as a result of Uni's being treated as businesses, they are in America and america has the best Uni's in the world. However I don't thin k this is a point worth debating on in the Russian forum

As regards the wild capitalism of the 90's it's something i will have to look into more, i thought I knew more than I actually did!

As a liberal I believe that it's the nations duty to protect it's citizens and with regards the poor i think the Russian goverment isn't doin enough in this regard

I didn't know the healthcare system was held so high, I knew the education system was supposedly excellent though. the alcoholism point is made in the article as far as I can remeber.

this is why i find studying Russia so interesting because there is so much bias in the West towards Russia thats it's nice to see what is through and what isn't, I didn't know there was a middle-class in Communist Russia

of course there was. Middle classes are impossible to kill . You can impoverish them, you can send them to labour camps, but they (we) will still come crawling at you with their (our) potted plants and petit-bourgeois values :-P.

to compare, a decent wage in the late 80's was 120 roubles per month. This is considering that the price of bread and milk was about 0.2 roubles, an underground ticket 0.05 roubles, an average book maybe 1 rouble. But keep in mind that you didn't have to pay much for your flat, for the utilities, for healthcare, education, and so on, and actually it wasn't all so bad. Modest, but not bad. The problem was that to find any goods you had to spend ages looking which shop had them, and stand a long queue, and that luxuries like elegant clothes and restaurants were almost impossible to attain.

But not everyone got 120 roubles. Some menial jobs got 80, even 60, and some jobs got more. Eg my grandfather, being a sculptor, earned 400 roubles a month - on that you could live like a prince - if you could find the necessary goods in shops. And although he was a well-known sculptor he was by no means 'government'. Actually, even government figures probably didn't get more than 5-figure sums. Which is about the same ratio as in the West today: the richest earn millions a year and your average joe earns maybe 20,000.

So what I want to say is, there was a pay scale. So being aspirational, educating yourself, certainly paid off: there was certainly an incentive to do well in life. This is not to say that people didn't fall by the wayside: some lived horribly poor lives. And yet, not as horribly poor as their counterparts would live after the USSR collapsed.

PS: and american unis have got the same problem: many also don't allow their professors to grade students badly for fear of scaring them away. Difference is, many of their unis have huge endownments and there is also good state aid, which isn't the case in the UK. Bottom line is, if turkeys have to be treated as customers there will never be a Christmas...

survivor2

Moomoo1 wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Population_of_Russia.PNG

notice that the turning point is in the early 90's.

The draw from Wikipedia shows the overall trend. Real statistics is hidden from us.That's very sad.

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" Benjamin Disraeli (1804–1881)

survivor2

Chairman of the Federation Council,the upper house of Russian Parliament, the leader of FAIR RUSSIA Sergei Mironov said that Russia today is much more impoverished than the number of official statistics. October 17 marks the International Day for the Eradication of Poverty.

"The official statistics significantly underestimate the extent of poverty of the Russian population - said Sergei Mironov, and - really poor people in Russia no less than a third of the population. With at least half of the Russian poor - is not retired, homeless, alcoholics and the unemployed but working beggars.This Phenomenon is unprecedented in the developed countries."

According to him, "the problem is that the incomes of half the population lag behind the growth of prices and tariffs up to to 2-3 times. If we observed the beginning of the year,the rise in food prices, basic necessities, utility rates, transport and communications, real incomes in the coming year will be lower than this. "

"Meanwhile, today 63% of the population have incomes below $500 a month. 30%, that is about 42-45 million people with an income of $ 180-200 a month, are living below the poverty line. And only slightly more than 10% of Russians have incomes above $ 800, - said Sergei Mironov. - According to the "FAIR RUSSIA", for a successful struggle against poverty and beggary, the Government should develop a coherent policy proceeds to legislate the ratio of actual inflation and necessarily income growth for retirees and active citizens. "

http://www.spravedlivo.ru/themes/7386.php?topic=40

Moomoo1

and keep in mind who this is. Mironov is 'fake opposition' - he jumps as high as Putin tells him to. So you could be excused for thinking that the real picture could well be worse.

in 2007, this guy deselected one of the front running candidates from his party for election to the russian Duma because that candidate criticised the president too much

Moomoo1

found that poll I was talking about

http://gidepark.ru/post/poll/index/id/41589

survivor2

Moomoo1 wrote: »

Mironov is 'fake opposition' - he jumps as high as Putin tells him to. So you could be excused for thinking that the real picture could well be worse.

Absolutely agreed. This fella knows all REAL figures and he is allowed to play with them.

survivor2

most popular topic in Russia today

Russian doctor breaks hospital’s illegal practices to PM live

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Published: 17 December, 2010, 19:01



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A single phone call during PM’s live Q&A session has stirred up the whole country, as a doctor from Central Russia informed Putin about the blatant fraud at one of the region’s hospitals.

Doctor Khrenov said that the head of the Ivanovo hospital had “borrowed” medical equipment from all over the region in order to prepare for Putin’s recent visit. After the examination, the top-of-the-range equipment was dismantled and “returned”.
All the genuine patients had been sent home and replaced with members of staff, who lay in bed and pretended to be ill.
Other “amendments” concerned doctors’ and nurses’ wages: all personnel were issued with fake certificates showing that they were earning twice as much as they actually do (namely around $1,000 and $200 respectively).
Putin promised to take the issue under his personal control and ordered the Ministry of Health to investigate the case thoroughly. He added that the hospital had recently received $40 million from the state budget.
Ivanovo’s authorities claimed that Doctor Khrenov was either “misinformed” or “deranged”.
“The equipment Khrenov was talking about is stationary. It could not be dismantled that easily as it is installed in concrete bases,” Ivanovo’s Governor Mikhail Men was quoted as saying by the Interfax news agency.
The hospital’s chief medical officer added that Khrenov had never worked there – he is a physicist at the cardiologic dispensary.
Meanwhile, one Russian blogger posted several comments by an anonymous nurse reportedly working at the hospital. The nurse said that there was a big scandal in the Ivanovo hospital.
“All the big people in the region arrived there to decide how to wipe this stain off the hospital’s reputation. They decided to say that the call was a fake and the doctor never worked at the hospital,” the nurse said, as quoted by the blogger. “Hopefully, some governmental commission will examine the place once again, and the head will finally be obliged to pay us normal wages.”
Soon after the session, Doctor Khrenov was invited in the Health Ministry and in the Prosecutor’s Office. The doctor, however, told Interfax that he would come only once he engages a lawyer.

http://rt.com/news/prime-time/putin-doctor-illegal-practices/

survivor2

by Charles Clover

“Russia needs more successful young entrepreneurs, therefore, governors should have more children!”
No room to move: commuters on the Moscow metro. Amid social stasis, some predict a political 'crisis of legitimacy'. Mikhair Prokhorov, leader of the pro-business Right Cause party, sees parallels with pre-revolution Egypt

At first it may seem a non-sequitur. But in Russia the joke is obvious, cutting to the heart of a growing source of discontent among the young: routes to professional success are fewer and fewer, while the offspring of top provincial officials and the like do well.

more: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/85983b7c-abf1-11e0-945a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1RtHQIg6S