Should Mourinho et al have been charged with improper conduct?

Liam O

Personally I think it's right but others have voiced some other opinions. I think it's unfair that they can get away with basically getting them to miss a meaningless game over risking a KO game being missed when other teams will be stung with players being banned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70f6oERyp7A

for those who haven't seen

Degag

no

Yes. IMO if a manager can be charged and fined etc for giving out (if they are right) about referees in press conferences and making too many changes in games ala McCarthy and Holloway then Mourinho should be punished for this.

Rules like the above and players taking their shirts off getting yellow cards etc are not what UEFA/FIFA/FA should be concentrating on, they should be concentrating on the real problems in the game such as cheating/diving and getting some sort of video technology in. They have and probably will for a long time to come, their priorities wrong.

Warper

no

This stuff goes on the whole time and always will but the way it was carried out the other night is taking the piss. It is making a mockery of the suspension rule though it is hard to know what can be done about it. What difference is there between hacking down a player going for a ball and blatant time-wasting? The only difference is how it is viewed. Tough one to call and Mourinho knows this. He was basically sticking 2 fingers up to the rules. It is improper conduct as the 2 suspensions will have a direct effect on Real's last Group game. The 2 players involved should get a 3 game ban. That would cut this stuff out.

Bodhisopha

Cue inane theories from the sky sports news junkies about why Mourinho really did this...

flahavaj

No. Nobody can ever prove he did anything wrong so charging him is a complete and utter waste of time.

ctrl-alt-delete

Can anyone explain the situation for me though?

As far as i can read in the rules on the Uefa site,

Yellow cards that have not resulted in a suspension at the end of each qualifying stage are not carried forward to the next stage.

So if he just did not play them in the last game they would have avoided a possible suspension?

Am i messing up somewhere

Liam O

no

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

Can anyone explain the situation for me though?

As far as i can read in the rules on the Uefa site,

Yellow cards that have not resulted in a suspension at the end of each qualifying stage are not carried forward to the next stage.

So if he just did not play them in the last game they would have avoided a possible suspension?

Am i messing up somewhere

i think it gets wiped after the 2nd round but I could be (probably tbh) wrong

First time seeing this,missed all the football the last few nights.

Talk about making it obvious. Shaking hands with the ref and all :pac:

Footballers = not very smart people.

Cypher_sounds

no

Seen this pic on another thread, voted yes, they made it too obvious what they were up to, deserve to be punished imo.

Lukker-

no

The players should be charged, UEFA should use common sense.

Kuyt did it for Liverpool a few years back.

I don't see the big fuss tbh.

This happens quite a bit I'd imagine. It's just these lads made it so blatently obvious.

UpTheSlashers

no

He was telling them NOT to get sent off, thats the risk you take with chinese whispers.

Fromvert

No, if they tripped someone in midfield on purpose, nothing would of been said. If they handled the ball, nothing would of been said.

It's only because the way they picked up the yellows people seem to care. This happens all the time and nothing is ever done.

missingtime

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Seen this pic on another thread, voted yes, they made it too obvious what they were up to, deserve to be punished imo.

Awaits caption competition...

Mr. Guappa

No way should they be charged with anything. This sort of thing happens all the time in the Premier League; a player on 4 yellows will often pick up a 5th on purpose if the suspension is going to fall on a Carling Cup/FA Cup game. Ramos and Alonso just made it blatantly obvious which seems to be their biggest crime - when Rooney/Gerrard/whoever pick up a yellow to get suspended for a cup trip to Torquay it's called "clever".

Mourinho is basically ripping the p*ss and fair play to him for doing it in such a brazen manner - but they've done absolutely nothing wrong IMO.

adamski8

didnt see it first time round, but that is hilarious and brilliant, fair play i say. thats the kind of advantage you should get when you've topped your group

Sagat06

no

They deserve it for being so blatantly stupid and obvious.
Yes it goes on every week. But in the premier cup competition in the world this shouldnt be the example being set.

Mr.Nice Guy

no

Yes they should be charged. If this kind of behaviour is condoned and defended then the game will soon be in the toilet, if it's not there already. Amazes me that people are actually excusing this.

SantryRed

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Yes they should be charged. If this kind of behaviour is condoned and defended then the game will soon be in the toilet, if it's not there already. Amazes me that people are actually excusing this.

What on earth is wrong with it?

It's not cheating in the slightest. He weighed up the idea of either playing the end of a game which they were winning with 11 men or having two of their best players available for the big last 16 game. There's nothing wrong with what he did.

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Yes they should be charged. If this kind of behaviour is condoned and defended then the game will soon be in the toilet, if it's not there already. Amazes me that people are actually excusing this.

Charged with what?

They were sent off and will recieve a punishment

karma_

no

rarnes1 wrote: »

Charged with what?

They were sent off and will recieve a punishment

Bringing the game into disrepute for starters.

TangyZizzle

no

Someone explain to me what actually went on.. Did he instruct the two lads to get sent off?

TheSpecialOne

no

Typical Jose dirty tactics...it goes against everything the game stands for!filthy cheats

TangyZizzle

no

TheSpecialOne wrote: »

Typical Jose dirty tactics...it goes against everything the game stands for!filthy cheats

Nice username :pac:

Mr.Nice Guy

no

SantryRed wrote: »

What on earth is wrong with it?

It's not cheating in the slightest. He weighed up the idea of either playing the end of a game which they were winning with 11 men or having two of their best players available for the big last 16 game. There's nothing wrong with what he did.

Of course it's cheating. The fact it was done in such a hush, hush manner, whispering etc. should tell you that. If it's so fine and dandy why did they go about it in such a sly manner?

It brings the game into disrepute and is the kind of thing that makes a mockery of it. There's another thread on here about lack of interest in the game from the USA and Australia. Well if this kind of behaviour is condoned then it's no surprise why they wish to stay away.

flahavaj

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Yes they should be charged. If this kind of behaviour is condoned and defended then the game will soon be in the toilet, if it's not there already. Amazes me that people are actually excusing this.

It can never be proven though.

Shanotheslayer

Agree with Flav on this.

Obvious what they did, but you can't prove it.

Only the players know what actually happend, and if they deny it so be it.

CSF

No way, he did it the right way and all, not having anyone get hurt by using a foul to get booked.

karma_

no

CSF wrote: »

No way, he did it the right way and all, not having anyone get hurt by using a foul to get booked.

He cheated ...the right way?

/shakes head

SantryRed

karma_ wrote: »

He cheated ...the right way?

/shakes head

Where is this cheating you talk about?

karma_

no

SantryRed wrote: »

Where is this cheating you talk about?

Seriously, is it your contention that having 2 of your players deliberately waste time in order to be booked so they can miss a meaningless match and be available for the next round is in no way cheating?

It is very clear he instructs the players to do this, it could not have been more obvious if he had it spelled out in the big screen there, even the way the players got booked was so cringe-worthy in its awkwardness.

flahavaj

karma_ wrote: »

Seriously, is it your contention that having 2 of your players deliberately waste time in order to be booked so they can miss a meaningless match and be available for the next round is in no way cheating?

It is very clear he instructs the players to do this, it could not have been more obvious if he had it spelled out in the big screen there, even the way the players got booked was so cringe-worthy in its awkwardness.

Yellow cards don't carry over, he could have just left them out in the next match if that was his intention.

SantryRed

karma_ wrote: »

Seriously, is it your contention that having 2 of your players deliberately waste time in order to be booked so they can miss a meaningless match and be available for the next round is in no way cheating?

It is very clear he instructs the players to do this, it could not have been more obvious is he had in spelled out in the big screen there, even the way the players got booked was so cringe-worthy in its awkwardness.

Well let me put it this way. When a player is bareing down on goal and is blatantly taken down last man, people don't call it cheating as he will get sent off. Once again, if a player blocks the ball on the line with his hand, he will be sent off. Cheating is when you go against the rules and don't get caught. Mourinho went with the rules. There's nothing wrong with getting your players sent off. It's not cheating.

Mr.Nice Guy

no

flahavaj wrote: »

It can never be proven though.

Then launch an inquiry into it.

We're talking about a coach instructing his players to get themselves deliberately sent off to ensure his player's transgressions are wiped clean. I find that reprehensible. Imagine seeing a coach of a kid's team urging his players to do this. It would turn most people's stomachs and rightly so. I also think people should consider the fact that if this type of thing became acceptable and referees chose not to issue the booking for time wasting then it could lead to players on yellow cards going in for silly, dangerous tackles to ensure they are sent off. It would be a very slippery slope.The idea of this behaviour being brushed off and creeping into the game is embarrassing.

There is strange morality on Boards. If Ronaldo dives to win a free kick he is condemned (rightly so), if Mourinho instructs Ramos and Alonso to get sent off to wipe away their bookings then he is praised. Amazing.

karma_

no

SantryRed wrote: »

Well let me put it this way. When a player is bareing down on goal and is blatantly taken down last man, people don't call it cheating as he will get sent off. Once again, if a player blocks the ball on the line with his hand, he will be sent off. Cheating is when you go against the rules and don't get caught. Mourinho went with the rules. There's nothing wrong with getting your players sent off. It's not cheating.

You cannot compare those 2 situations at all. If you are suggesting that Mourinho was well within the rules, then why are uefa looking into the incident?

karma_

no

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Then launch an inquiry into it.

We're talking about a coach instructing his players to get themselves deliberately sent off to ensure his player's transgressions are wiped clean. I find that reprehensible. Imagine seeing a coach of a kid's team urging his players to do this. It would turn most people's stomachs and rightly so. I also think people should consider the fact that if this type of thing became acceptable and referees chose not to issue the booking for time wasting then it could lead to players on yellow cards going in for silly, dangerous tackles to ensure they are sent off. It would be a very slippery slope.The idea of this behaviour being brushed off and creeping into the game is embarrassing.

There is strange morality on Boards. If Ronaldo dives to win a free kick he is condemned (rightly so), if Mourinho instructs Ramos and Alonso to get sent off to wipe away their bookings then he is praised. Amazing.

Indeed, and you have to wonder where it will all stop at? If a club can use gamesmanship to garner advantage that of course is to be expected but it really does devalue the game and it is up to UEFA & FIFA to take action.

flahavaj

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Then launch an inquiry into it.

We're talking about a coach instructing his players to get themselves deliberately sent off to ensure his player's transgressions are wiped clean. I find that reprehensible. Imagine seeing a coach of a kid's team urging his players to do this. It would turn most people's stomachs and rightly so. I also think people should consider the fact that if this type of thing became acceptable and referees chose not to issue the booking for time wasting then it could lead to players on yellow cards going in for silly, dangerous tackles to ensure they are sent off. It would be a very slippery slope.The idea of this behaviour being brushed off and creeping into the game is embarrassing.

There is strange morality on Boards. If Ronaldo dives to win a free kick he is condemned (rightly so), if Mourinho instructs Ramos and Alonso to get sent off to wipe away their bookings then he is praised. Amazing.

http://www.uefa.com/multimediafiles/download/regulations/uefa/others/70/22/60/702260_download.pdf

Exceptionally, single cautions from the qualifying phase that have not
resulted in a suspension expire on completion of the qualifying phase in
question.

This is the 2008/9 rulebook, does anyone know if its still the same?

Were Ramos and Alonso only on one booking each prior to this?

Because if so, then all they had to do was not play them in the next game and their slate would have been wiped clean anyway. Which leads me to believe that Jose's intention was not to cheat and he had other motives, namely to cause a bit of an off field sh*t storm in the week of el Classico to delflect attention from his players. It would also explain the blatant theatrical whispering behind cupped hands that went on. If he really wanted to "cheat" (and I use the term loosely) then he's have planned it behind closed doors, he's not moronic enough to do it that blatantly surely?

Edit: 2010/11 rules appear to be the same: their yellow cards would have been wiped anyway as far as I can tell if they'd just not played the last game.

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/competitions/Regulations/01/48/42/49/1484249_DOWNLOAD.pdf

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Then launch an inquiry into it.

We're talking about a coach instructing his players to get themselves deliberately sent off to ensure his player's transgressions are wiped clean. I find that reprehensible. Imagine seeing a coach of a kid's team urging his players to do this. It would turn most people's stomachs and rightly so. I also think people should consider the fact that if this type of thing became acceptable and referees chose not to issue the booking for time wasting then it could lead to players on yellow cards going in for silly, dangerous tackles to ensure they are sent off. It would be a very slippery slope.The idea of this behaviour being brushed off and creeping into the game is embarrassing.

There is strange morality on Boards. If Ronaldo dives to win a free kick he is condemned (rightly so), if Mourinho instructs Ramos and Alonso to get sent off to wipe away their bookings then he is praised. Amazing.

Prove that he instructed them to get sent off.

And again, so bloody what? Different story if they deliberately hacking a player down eh?

There is strange morality on Boards

:pac:

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lcb3bnMTdq1qcbwiso1_500.jpg

karma_

no

rarnes1 wrote: »

Prove that he instructed them to get sent off.

And again, so bloody what? Different story if they deliberately hacking a player down eh?

:pac:

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lcb3bnMTdq1qcbwiso1_500.jpg

L2embed

super_furry

no

Jaysus, Jerzy Dudek is still involved in football? Must have massive splinters in his arse.

Mr.Nice Guy

no

rarnes1 wrote:

Prove that he instructed them to get sent off.

I think that's UEFA's job:

José Mourinho is facing the possibility of a touchline ban after Uefa charged him with unsporting conduct over allegations that the Real Madrid coach ordered Xabi Alonso and Sergio Ramos to get themselves sent off for time-wasting via a message passed to them by Iker Casillas and Jerzy Dudek.

All four players also have to answer the charge, which will be heard on 30 November, following the incidents during Madrid's Champions League against Ajax on Tuesday. Alonso and Ramos's dismissals meant they would serve one-match suspensions in a meaningless group match against Auxerre next month, rather than the knockout rounds of the competition.

Arsene Wenger was spot on about it and sums it up better than I can:

Wenger said: "Yes, I think there should be sanctions. I do not want to see that, it's a pity to see that from a big club and, overall, when you see that it gives a bad image of our game – what we don't want. I respect Real Madrid for their quality and for what they are doing but, whether it's them or somebody else, you don't want to see that on the football pitch."

When it was suggested this was cheating the Frenchman said: "You can call what they did what you want, but it's not what you want to see on the football pitch. You want to respect people who pay money to watch a game. What do they want? To watch a football game, not to watch these kind of things. You don't want to accept that.

"You never say that it doesn't cross your mind to do that. You have to be completely honest about it, but when you see how it looks on television, I must say it is the best demonstration to think 'never do that again' because it looks, frankly, horrible.

"If you play, two games later, the biggest game of the season and you have a meaningless game just after and the players can be suspended [for it], it crosses your mind. What happened the other night, though, is the best demonstration that you should not consider it because it looks frankly terrible."

Wenger refused directly to criticise Mourinho, with whom he had a long running spat when the Portuguese was Chelsea manager. "I do not want to go into any individual problem with José Moruinho, I do not need to especially have a go at him," he said. "I just think, overall, as a lover of football you don't want to see it. I'm not better in that than José Mourinho, or more an example than him. I just think when you watch it on television, it doesn't look good."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/nov/25/arsene-wenger-real-madrid-red-cards?intcmp=239

I'd like to see Mourinho and all involved banned for 3 games minimum.

Dempsey

no

If the slate is wiped clean for the KO stages, I dont see the point in instructing your players to time waste to the point of getting booked again/sent off. Mourinho would know this well before kick off, he's up to something else me thinks

BUT

I think its a case of ethics and what we want to see in football. We dont want players deceiving referee's and trying to beat the system. Do we want managers to get in on the act? I'd like the game to be played in an honest matter and not just see people trying to jump through loopholes to gain an advantage.

28064212

I've seen this sentence quoted in virtually all the news reports on the story:

Under article 5.1 of Uefa's regulations dealing with loyalty, integrity and sportsmanship both players

Anyone able to find those regulations? I've looked through various documents and can't find anything that could be related to this incident

Mr. Presentable

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Yes they should be charged. If this kind of behaviour is condoned and defended then the game will soon be in the toilet, if it's not there already. Amazes me that people are actually excusing this.

Sorry dude, it's already there. Show me a club that hasn't done this. The only difference here is the blatancy - and I don't think there's a rule against that!

oldyouth

The players deliberately wasted time during a competitive match. The ref saw it and applied the appropriate action by booking the players concerned. Time and time again, we hear appeals being turned down because the governing body cite that if the ref sees something and takes action, they are powerless to interfere. Why should this be different.

This has always happened, probably not as blatently but there you go. It is up to the lawmakers to prevent it and not blame the users who interpret the rules as they are written

flahavaj

I also recall David Beckham openly admitting to doing this a few years ago but not getting charged due to a lack of sufficient evidence. In fact he fouled someone deliberately which is kinda worse and still nothing was done.

Mr. Presentable

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Sorry dude, it's already there. Show me a club that hasn't done this. The only difference here is the blatancy - and I don't think there's a rule against that!

Spot on.

You'd swear Real Madrid were to the first club to exploit this.

Serious naivety on this thread tbh.

karma_

no

rarnes1 wrote: »

Spot on.

You'd swear Real Madrid were to the first club to exploit this.

Serious naivety on this thread tbh.

I don't believe posters are being naive, I don't doubt that teams have been doing this for some time, this however must be the most blatant example of it.

SantryRed

karma_ wrote: »

You cannot compare those 2 situations at all. If you are suggesting that Mourinho was well within the rules, then why are uefa looking into the incident?

Telling a player to do something tactical is clearly within the rules as they were sent off. The reason they are looking into the incident is due to the media.

L'prof

no

Ridiculously obvious, they deserve to be fined in my opinion, but it was still the right thing to do!

Chucky the tree

It happens alot, I'd rather see a play do it obviously and get his second yellow by time wasting then delbritaely trying to foul someone which could cause injury.