Should Mourinho et al have been charged with improper conduct?

eagle eye

No nothing should be done about it. Suspensions are ridiculous anyways. I really don't understand why they occur.

Can anybody explain to me what is fair about a suspension system?

I mean a player does something against your team and gets suspended for the next game against your opponent. How is there anything fair about that?

flahavaj

Can anyone clarify that what I posted earlier was correct and that their cards would have been wiped anyway if he'd just dropped Xabi and Ramos for the last group match?

SantryRed

flahavaj wrote: »

Can anyone clarify that what I posted earlier was correct and that their cards would have been wiped anyway if he'd just dropped Xabi and Ramos for the last group match?

I'm nearly sure the wipe out doesn't occur until after the last 16.

karma_

no

flahavaj wrote: »

Can anyone clarify that what I posted earlier was correct and that their cards would have been wiped anyway if he'd just dropped Xabi and Ramos for the last group match?

I honestly don't know, I thought there was a change like there was in the WC that the slate did not get wiped clean until the QF stage but I don't think that's correct either. If you find out post it as I'd like to know. From checking around a lot of folk appear to have different interpretations of this incident and the motivations behind it.

L'prof

no

flahavaj wrote: »

Can anyone clarify that what I posted earlier was correct and that their cards would have been wiped anyway if he'd just dropped Xabi and Ramos for the last group match?

That's what I thought too, but everyone I've talked to says that it isn't the case. Surely Mourinho of all people would know though...surely?

flahavaj

SantryRed wrote: »

I'm nearly sure the wipe out doesn't occur until after the last 16.

The rulebook seems to specify "qualification phase " as far as I can tell, but does that mean the group stage? Very confusing.

Here's more very very bad footballers

David Beckham, England v Wales - 09/10/2004
In order to prove how clever he was, the England captain admitted that he had been nursing an injury when he deliberately drew a yellow card for fouling Ben Thatcher. Already on one yellow, Becks was suspended for the following qualifier against Azerbaijan - which he would have missed anyway - and thus had a clean slate for the next round of international games.

Dirk Kuyt, Liverpool v PSV - 3/4/2007
Desperate to get a yellow card and activate his one-match ban ahead of a possible date with Chelsea in the Champions League semis, Liverpool's beaky Dutch winger body-checked an opponent. Alas, the ref took didn't deem this a bookable offence, so the cunning Dutchman then refused to move the required 10 yards back from the free kick and got what he wanted.
Xabi Alonso & Sergio Ramos, Real Madrid v Atletico Madrid – March 2007
Who would suspect these two of having form in this department. Eager to get their totting-up bans done with ahead of an impending Clasico, Alonso committed a blatant handball in the box but when that was ignored by the ref he was booked for a cynical challenge on Eduardo Salvio. Ramos again earned his yellow with time wasting, leaving them both free to face Barcelona two weeks later.
Dani Alves, Barcelona v Mallorca – March 2007
The Barca star removed any doubt about being suspended for the same match when his time-wasting earned him a booking and a totting-up suspension,leaving him able to play against Real in a fortnight's time.
Unnamed Premier League player , 5/4/2008
During treatment at the Sporting Chance clinic in Hampshire, a player admitted deliberately picking up a red card and persuading three team-mates to collect yellows in order to wipe out his £50,000 debt. Clinic chief exec Peter Kay claimed patient confidentiality when refusing to name the guilty man.
Cris and Juninho, Lyon v Fiorentina – December 2008
After picking up curious yellows, both missed a meaningless match against Bayern Munich and thus were free to play in the knockout stages of the Champions League. But this time Uefa cracked down and the millionaire duo were fined a wallet-busting 10,000 and 15,000 euros respectively.
Rafael Marquez – Barcelona v Bayern Munich – 8/4/2009
With Barca ahead and coasting, the defender received a booking three minutes from the end... for the traditional ploy of time-wasting. This ruled him out of the first leg of the Champions League semi-final against Chelsea, and justice perhaps prevailed when he was injured for the second leg. Not that it mattered.
Lucas Neill – Australia v Qatar - 9/6/2009
The Premiership star made a crude challenge on Sebastian Quintana, ruling himself out of an easy qualifier against Bahrain in Sydney and giving him a clean slate against the might of Japan.

L'prof

no

eagle eye wrote: »

No nothing should be done about it. Suspensions are ridiculous anyways. I really don't understand why they occur.

Can anybody explain to me what is fair about a suspension system?

I mean a player does something against your team and gets suspended for the next game against your opponent. How is there anything fair about that?

What do you propose? The only instance where I might agree with you is the one match ban received for a professional foul.

Dempsey

no

Bet that unnamed EPL footballer was Matthew Etherington!! :pac:

Xabi Alonso & Sergio Ramos, Real Madrid v Atletico Madrid – March 2007

???, when did Alonso sign for Madrid again, 2009? :cool:

Dempsey

no

flahavaj wrote: »

The rulebook seems to specify "qualification phase " as far as I can tell, but does that mean the group stage? Very confusing.

qualification phase is before the group stage

smoochie06

rarnes1 wrote: »

Here's more very very bad footballers

Xabi Alonso & Sergio Ramos, Real Madrid v Atletico Madrid – March 2007
Who would suspect these two of having form in this department. Eager to get their totting-up bans done with ahead of an impending Clasico, Alonso committed a blatant handball in the box but when that was ignored by the ref he was booked for a cynical challenge on Eduardo Salvio. Ramos again earned his yellow with time wasting, leaving them both free to face Barcelona two weeks later.

I dont understand that one. Xabi was playing for Liverpool at the time?

Dempsey

Dempsey wrote: »

???, when did Alonso sign for Madrid again, 2009? :cool:

LOL, it's from the Mirror

Seaneh

It's at worst gamesmenship, at best tactical genius. I say fair play to him, ref should have been smarter.

flahavaj

Its UEFA who should be criticised for leaving their rules open to manipulation tbh.

dan1895

Just because everyone does it doesn't make it right. The spirit of the game is being destroyed by these kind of actions.

dan1895

dan1895 wrote: »

Just because everyone does it doesn't make it right. The spirit of the game is being destroyed by these kind of actions.

How?

Liam O

no

Echoing what Mr. Nice Guy said earlier, if Ronaldo or Gerrard dive and get away with it they get lambasted for it and if they win a penalty or something in the CL they get banned for it under current rules afaik. Mourinho gets his players purposely sent off and gets away with it and is (even by me) called a genius. He should however have to face the consequences if he gets caught.

karma_

no

rarnes1 wrote: »

How?

What do you mean How?

Do we really have to spell it out to you how this kind of behaviour is contrary to the tenets of sport and sportsmanship?

peabutler

Is anyone going to provide proof or is it all circumstancial evidence. Unless Mourinho admits he instructed the players to get second yellows it cannot be proven.

karma_

karma_ wrote: »

What do you mean How?

Do we really have to spell it out to you how this kind of behaviour is contrary to the tenets of sport and sportsmanship?

I'd consider diving worse.

karma_

no

rarnes1 wrote: »

I'd consider diving worse.

I'm not sure I'd agree it's worse but it surely is as bad.

Warper

no

Irrespective of the rules, what happened is really bad etiquette and should never be applauded. They should be criticised heavily for this and also punished in some way, maybe fines/suspensions. Everyone knows what happened so it should not be tolerated. It is typical of Mourinho as he thinks he is bigger than the game itself. His ego is eventually going to kill him. I have never seen it done so blatantly before and the fact it happened twice in the one game for the same offense really does reek of poor sportsmanship. Really poor form and yes these things should matter.

greendom

no

This thread is quite enlightening as I didn't realise that this went on. Of course they should be punished and if this occurence happens so frequently, the rule should change so that points for bookings are carried on to the next stage to stop this happening again. There should be an ascending system where each booking leads to a bigger suspension.

greendom

no

rarnes1 wrote: »

I'd consider diving worse.

Why worse ? They're both examples of cheating to gain an advantage aren't they?

dan1895

I've been watching football for years and didn't know it went on to the extent that some people on this thread have said! Shocking the level of gamesmanship in the sport today.

Iang87

personally whats the problem?

He played the rules as the rules are in place. He blatantly broke the rules, the same people complaining are those who though suarez should have been banned for longer during the world cup.

The rules were in place with everyone knowing the consequences of breaking rules. They just chose to break them

CorkMan

super_furry wrote: »

Jaysus, Jerzy Dudek is still involved in football? Must have massive splinters in his arse.

He's been there 5 years and playing about 1 game in the league and 5 in the cup :pac:

Mind, I heard he is good at cleaning the toilets.

CorkMan

29th November 2010

Camp Nou, 8PM

Real Madrid
VS

FC Barcelona

iregk

I have to say I'm somewhat bafffled at the level of coverage this is getting. There wasn't a blip in the media when Liverpool did this a few years back. Mind you that was Liverpool so we don't mention it on this forum and it didn't involve Jose so no axes to grind.

massdebater

greendom wrote: »

Why worse ? They're both examples of cheating to gain an advantage aren't they?

Diving is worse because it actually is cheating. What Mourinho & Co. done is not cheating.

Unsportsmanlike sure, but not cheating. There is a difference

NeoKubrick

It's obvious what they did. And UEFA should overcompensate in the style of "be careful what you wish for": give the two players and manager a three match ban.

greendom

no

massdebater wrote: »

Diving is worse because it actually is cheating. What Mourinho & Co. done is not cheating.

Unsportsmanlike sure, but not cheating. There is a difference

I think you're trying to split a very fine hair to differentiate between the 2. Equally bad and equally reprehensible in my (obviously quite thick haired) book

Vincent Vega

no

flahavaj wrote: »

No. Nobody can ever prove...

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

but you can't prove it.

rarnes1 wrote: »

Prove that he instructed them to get sent off.

I think its possible the 4th official could have heard something.

TanG411

no

Here's a good video showing the link up between players. Sorry if it's been posted already, I didn't read the previous pages:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70f6oERyp7A

bohsfan

I haven't looked through the entire thread, so apologies if I am echoing anybody...

I think what happened was unsporting, but at the end of the day I don't feel Mourinho or the players broke any rules here. They exploited the rules so that they maximised their chances of continuing in the competition. Part of me thinks "That's not very sporting lads- boo hiss" but another part of me thinks "Fair play guys, good thinking".

Perhaps UEFA could change the rules so that if any suspensions that are due to fall in what is deemed a 'dead rubber' match are carried over into the next round?

astrofool

Ref should have given them a straight red. They would still be carrying the yellow then.

Soby

astrofool wrote: »

Ref should have given them a straight red. They would still be carrying the yellow then.

I think thats what they should do now.Ban them for the last group stage match and leave them with their 2 yellows going into the knockout stages

DOC09UNAM

flahavaj wrote: »

http://www.uefa.com/multimediafiles/download/regulations/uefa/others/70/22/60/702260_download.pdf


This is the 2008/9 rulebook, does anyone know if its still the same?

Were Ramos and Alonso only on one booking each prior to this?

Because if so, then all they had to do was not play them in the next game and their slate would have been wiped clean anyway. Which leads me to believe that Jose's intention was not to cheat and he had other motives, namely to cause a bit of an off field sh*t storm in the week of el Classico to delflect attention from his players. It would also explain the blatant theatrical whispering behind cupped hands that went on. If he really wanted to "cheat" (and I use the term loosely) then he's have planned it behind closed doors, he's not moronic enough to do it that blatantly surely?

Edit: 2010/11 rules appear to be the same: their yellow cards would have been wiped anyway as far as I can tell if they'd just not played the last game.

http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Regulations/competitions/Regulations/01/48/42/49/1484249_DOWNLOAD.pdf

But it's not qualifying, it's the group stages.

As far as Richard Keys said on Sky, that rule where the card's vanish after the group stages, is only the world cup.

CorkMan

astrofool wrote: »

Ref should have given them a straight red. They would still be carrying the yellow then.

But wasting time isn't a red card offense then.

PHB

I'd want my players to do it. Although like, they could have done it slightly less blatently.

astrofool

CorkMan wrote: »

But wasting time isn't a red card offense then.

I'd say it would qualify under improper conduct, trying purposely to draw a yellow card.

Also, Mourinho's reaction to a red would have been priceless.

pickarooney

Was that... Luis Suarez complaining about his opponents infracting the rules in an obvious manner guaranteeing themselves a red card?

If the rules are badly devised enough to allow this crack then UEFA should just investigate themselves. If they really hadn't thought through the possibility of something like this happening then they're not really on the ball.

DOC09UNAM

pickarooney wrote: »

Was that... Luis Suarez complaining about his opponents infracting the rules in an obvious manner guaranteeing themselves a red card?

If the rules are badly devised enough to allow this crack then UEFA should just investigate themselves. If they really hadn't thought through the possibility of something like this happening then they're not really on the ball.

I think he was genuinely complaining about them wasting time, Don't think he would have cared about the red card!

Iang87

quick question to those who feel he cheated.

Does it mean cheating when you use rules to your favour?

karma_

no

Iang87 wrote: »

quick question to those who feel he cheated.

Does it mean cheating when you use rules to your favour?

Where in the rules does it say it's grand to get yourself deliberately booked?

WallyGUFC

karma_ wrote: »

Where in the rules does it say it's grand to get yourself deliberately booked?

Where does it say you can't get yourself deliberately booked?

karma_

no

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Where does it say you can't get yourself deliberately booked?

Should we actually need a rule that specifies that? Or is it glaringly obvious that it shouldn't be tolerated?

amacachi

PHB wrote: »

I'd want my players to do it. Although like, they could have done it slightly less blatently.

I remember Scholes doing what looked like a stupid late trip a few years back, of course it wasn't so stupid. :pac: Not trying to single out a United player but it's the only one I remember noticing, I'm sure they've all been at it.

tim_holsters

Mourinho played the system which he is perfectly entitled to do, that is all.

Anyone who takes the group matches seriously is misguided, the sole purpose of the group stage is to make money nothing else.

We can get round to the less important stuff like whose going to win it after Christmas.

Bodhisopha

I can't believe the outrage over this.

Is Mourinho a bit of a wánker for this? Yes, what's new?

Should he be punished? No. He was entitled to be a bit of a wánker.