Tipperary North election thread

mayhem#

@ CatMelodeon Yes it's me indeed.
I would fully agree that Kate's appearance on VinB wasn't all it could be but I would ask people not to judge her by that. If you're interested in her politics have a look at her website, email her or call her with your questions.
And yes, she knows the extent of her constituency but as someone who only decided to run two week ago and who is not backed by a big party and/or budget it's tough covering the whole territory.

E.

mayhem#

@catmelodeon Labour only voted against the bailout once they were ensured that it wouldn't matter. They also facilitated the passing of the finance bill. Both actions are unforgiveable in my opinion.

MinnyMinor

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

Is that you Evert?

Here's the link, people can judge for themselves (from 16:00 onwards):
http://www.tv3.ie/shows.php?request=tonightwithvincentbrowne&tv3_preview=&video=32776
Personally I thought Kate Bopp was a bit stuttery and didn't come across at all convincingly on the bailout/alternatives to it. In fairness, neither did the other candidates on the panel with her, with the exception perhaps of the more practiced Michael Healy Rae, but then again, he blusters so much I'm not even sure if he did address the questions asked. Vincent Browne was no more aggressive with her than any of the others, perhaps more so with Catherine Connolly, that's his questioning style and is why Enda Kenny won't go on the show.

Her Kelly bugbear is a non-runner, he has spoken about this publicly on numerous occasions, Labour raised objections at every turn on the bailout and were the only party to vote against it.

I agree with her on the expenses issue, Vincent Browne probably didn't allow her raise it as time was very limited. He's not exactly renowned for his pleasantness with 'minor' guests, that's the price you pay for exposure on his show.

Btw, does Mrs Bopp know that the constituency extends south of Templemore? She only referenced the very northern Tipperary towns and villages in the interview. what about Thurles and surrounds?

healy rae is some gombeen with the cap on

Cat Melodeon

mayhem# wrote: »

@ CatMelodeon Yes it's me indeed.
I would fully agree that Kate's appearance on VinB wasn't all it could be but I would ask people not to judge her by that. If you're interested in her politics have a look at her website, email her or call her with your questions.
And yes, she knows the extent of her constituency but as someone who only decided to run two week ago and who is not backed by a big party and/or budget it's tough covering the whole territory.

E.

I certainly haven't judged her on this appearance alone. Personally, I'm glad she's running, it's good to have a plurality of candidates and policies and particularly to have a strong woman running. I won't be voting for her however as I personally am strongly pro-Europe and Kate's ties to Declan Ganley rule her out for me. Perhaps it was a glib comment and I shouldn't take it seriously, but she told me elsewhere that she's not interested in #2 votes.

I don't think she'll get a seat this time but hope she sticks at it and either forms a national party platform with like-minded independents or engages in local politics - we could really do with some non-affiliated reformers in local government. Perhaps the prospect of planning permission debates and footpath repairs don't exactly set her alight, but it is the most common route to becoming a TD in rural constituencies. She could also do with putting a bit more detail on her biography on the website. So she's a mum and a final year law student who has worked on Haiti Connect for the past 12 months. But what exactly has she been doing over the past 20 years? What jobs has she held? Who has she worked for? What skills can she bring to representing the people?

Apart from policy and integrity, at the most basic level what voters want is to connect with a candidate, to see that they are like them, that they are someone they can imagine understanding their problems and issues and who will properly represent them nationally. Kate's still too much of an unknown. It was admirable of her to put herself forward at such short notice without having an existing network of believers; I don't think it'll work out for her this time.

Good luck in any case over the next couple of days.

tipptom

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

9It still remains that they voted against it though.0 Coupled with their insistence that it must be renegotiated, it's a more principled prospect than Fianna-dum or Fine-dee.

Yea,still think its a bit disingenious thoughA for them to say they didnt support it but i agree with you on the negotiaton,i think Eamon Gilmore came over very well last night and knew his policys and laid them out without much contradiction,whereas enda kenny seemed unsure of any detail and michael martin came across as just agressive which wasnt helped by everybody sniggering when he mentioned FF credibility.
As for who to vote for because there is not much choice here,i will lay my cards on the table here for myself seeing as its so near the day,i couldnt consider voting for someone who can be accused by a judge of operating a black market system in which he defrauded the taxpayer and had to pay back over a million,lied to the dail and then had to be sacked,is under investigation by an ongoing tribunal which himself and denis o brien admits is coming out against them and is currently under a seperate investigation for nor releasing imformation about his campaign contributions,as for FF/Hoctor enough said,even though i have some sympathy for the way she has been shafted by FF by giving all the goodies to Lowry in bid to cling to power,FG/Coonan dont know whats happning there,saw him at a funeral once,his wife is a counciller as well i think,(jaysus),Alan Kelly seems to be the bright new thing,but went back on a pledge to stay the full term in europe and should at least have resigned his mp seat to show commitment to north tipp,i think i will give kate bopp my no 1 as her recipe of policys are near my own and Alan kelly my no 2 which will be as good as a no1 to him anyway,i think.so there.anyone else?.

tipptom

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

Is that you Evert?

Here's the link, people can judge for themselves (from 16:00 onwards):
http://www.tv3.ie/shows.php?request=tonightwithvincentbrowne&tv3_preview=&video=32776
Personally I thought Kate Bopp was a bit stuttery and didn't come across at all convincingly on the bailout/alternatives to it. In fairness, neither did the other candidates on the panel with her, with the exception perhaps of the more practiced Michael Healy Rae, but then again, he blusters so much I'm not even sure if he did address the questions asked. Vincent Browne was no more aggressive with her than any of the others, perhaps more so with Catherine Connolly, that's his questioning style and is why Enda Kenny won't go on the show.

Her Kelly bugbear is a non-runner, he has spoken about this publicly on numerous occasions, Labour raised objections at every turn on the bailout and were the only party to vote against it.

I agree with her on the expenses issue, Vincent Browne probably didn't allow her raise it as time was very limited. He's not exactly renowned for his pleasantness with 'minor' guests, that's the price you pay for exposure on his show.

Btw, does Mrs Bopp know that the constituency extends south of Templemore? She only referenced the very northern Tipperary towns and villages in the interview. what about Thurles and surrounds?

ha ha,i thought you were joking,wel lspotted Cat

Cat Melodeon

tipptom wrote: »

i think i will give kate bopp my no 1 as her recipe of policys are near my own and Alan kelly my no 2 which will be as good as a no1 to him anyway,i think.so there.anyone else?.

Well, my initial gut feeling was for Kelly and Labour and I haven't been moved much by anyone else, so I'm thinking #1 for him and that's it. I won't vote FF for obvious reasons, won't vote FG because I think Enda Kenny is woeful, can't see myself voting SF ever, would never vote for Lowry, can't vote for the two Independents because of their policies. Which leaves the Green candidate from who I've heard very little and whose party I'm not sure I could support. So #1 for Kelly and nothing to anyone else.
Looking forward to Saturday!

mccoist

I was wondering if anyone had a view on leaders debate
I personally thought Enda Kenny did very well
he came across as honest and is obviously uncomfortable in a role like this
but he does seem to be quiet clever and was quick enough for the way martin keeps telling us our business
What is it with him he like to put words or attach statements to you like {you and the people know} as if we we are not really being serious and of course we will vote the ff back in .Wake up fianna fail we are not listening no more and have had enough of your sly ways
E Gilmore seemed to be caught out by the way enda kenny got stuck into martin
This was billed as the showdown between future taoiseacht,that was a joke ,kenny will lead the next goverment it is just a matter of what shape he will have to be alone or in coalition
Will all this affect how we vote in nth tipp
a few people i spoke to seem to agree with me and are warming to enda
sinn fein and greens leaders should have been included in debate

Cat Melodeon

mccoist wrote: »

I was wondering if anyone had a view on leaders debate
I personally thought Enda Kenny did very well

It's gas, I think people see what they want to see in the debates. I thought Enda Kenny was wooden. He was doing that thing where you try to make people think you are intelligent just because you speak slowly - very annoying and slightly patronising. Micheal Martin was snappy and childish and slippery. Eamon Gilmore came across the best of the three, I thought he was clear and authoritative although a little bit too ready to concede space to the other two bickerers.

I don't think last night's debate was very good. I like Miriam but she was useless last night. Pat Kenny did a better job (and I'm not a fan of his) even if the format of the 5-way was dreadful. Btw, I thought Gerry Adams did best in the 5-way even though I would never vote SF.

But yeah, you see what you want to see, I guess I'm a Labour woman now!

mccoist

Like your thoughts on pat kenny definately did a better job than miriam
I was swayed by the way enda kenny got stuck into martin
Even E Gilmore seemed to be caught by it for a moment or two
There seems to be a quietness descending on this election or is it just me
I consider this election has two major points which have to be decided
1/The shape of the next goverment
2/who will lead the opposition

Cat Melodeon

mccoist wrote: »

I consider this election has two major points which have to be decided
1/The shape of the next goverment
2/who will lead the opposition

Those are interesting questions. The first I think has been talked about quite a lot, with some media sources suggesting that even the Greens could end up back in govt if FG get enough seats and only need a few for the majority. Gilmore has been really pushing it today to encourage voters to prevent FG from getting an outright majority.

I would like to see Labour in government, but even the prospect of them as the main opposition party is a mad one.

beagga

I was working in carlow today when over walked Joan Burton and her canvassers/ fanfair. Just as I began to talk to her a pr guy came over to drag her away and she replied to him that she was talking to me to secure her another number one vote. As soon as I said I didn't vote in her constituency she was gone before I could blink............:)

tipptom

mccoist wrote: »

Like your thoughts on pat kenny definately did a better job than miriam
I was swayed by the way enda kenny got stuck into martin
Even E Gilmore seemed to be caught by it for a moment or two
There seems to be a quietness descending on this election or is it just me
I consider this election has two major points which have to be decided
1/The shape of the next goverment
2/who will lead the opposition

Yea,i thought Miriam was terrible,she let Michael martin away with way to much bluster,maybe something to do with her brother running for FF (joking).I think enda is honest but they would have hit an overall majority with someone else and even if they do hit an overall they would need at least 20 more to be secure to pass the sh*t they are going to be pushing through,think its going to be FG/LAB and FF main opposition.I think kenny/gilmore missed a stroke right at the very end when they were given a last chance to lay out their store when martin mentioned FF and honesty in the same sentance,they should have laughed loudly and said thats a contadiction in terms,may have been rude but would have been remembered.Michael Martin reminds me of that pr guy in the film about the tobacco industry a few years back convincing people that theres no harm in cigerattes through almost hypnotic horse****,and meets up for lunch with his other pr mates from the guns and alchohal lobby who are as equely as adept.

pat13wx

tipptom wrote: »

Yea,i thought Miriam was terrible,she let Michael martin away with way to much bluster,maybe something to do with her brother running for FF (joking).

Or maybe the stories we hear of RTE's FF favourable bias are actually true.

In any event, the Debate produced little of value for me; just an opportunity for the principle leaders to restate their positions to the faithful.

FG will win, Labour might play a part in the formation of the next government and FF will be so badly place to feature anywhere. Mind you, I think the spell which awaits them in opposition will do them the power of good and perhaps next time they win an election their complacency won't be so evident.

As for those running in North Tipp.. Noonan will get through via his FG credentials, M. Lowery will get through on past performances alone and Kelly...well, that call is anyone's guess, but I'd say he'll scrape through. If he doesn't his Europe job remains secure so nothing really to loose, which is why he won't be getting my vote. One thing I expect from all candidates is total commitment and his leaving the door firmly open should he fail suggests he isn't all that committed.

Shazanne

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

It's gas, I think people see what they want to see in the debates. I thought Enda Kenny was wooden. He was doing that thing where you try to make people think you are intelligent just because you speak slowly - very annoying and slightly patronising. Micheal Martin was snappy and childish and slippery. Eamon Gilmore came across the best of the three, I thought he was clear and authoritative although a little bit too ready to concede space to the other two bickerers.

I don't think last night's debate was very good. I like Miriam but she was useless last night. Pat Kenny did a better job (and I'm not a fan of his) even if the format of the 5-way was dreadful. Btw, I thought Gerry Adams did best in the 5-way even though I would never vote SF.

But yeah, you see what you want to see, I guess I'm a Labour woman now!

I agree with you that people see what that want to see in debates and you are living proof of that theory. I am not a Kenny fan but I do think he came across well and appeared calm and in control. Martin I felt was restless, more argumentative than in previous debates and less self-assured. However he played on Gilmore's tendency to get agitated and succeeded in getting that annoying finger pointing reaction from him on a number of occasions.
You are obviously a committed Labour voter and, having read most if not all of you posts, you are equally committed to Kelly. That is, of course, your choice. Many others were when they went to polling stations across the South of the country just a short time ago to put their faith in him as an MEP, but where are they now - and where will you be? However, that is you choice and your right and I accept that.
I find it less easy to accept a person giving one vote on a ballot paper in a country where there is such an effective PR system in place. Seats have been won and lost on 2nd and 3rd preferences, as you no doubt know, and there is a great deal of satisfaction in "following" your vote through the count. You are adopting the old FF way of voting - just one vote for one party.

Cat Melodeon

Shazanne wrote: »

You are obviously a committed Labour voter and, having read most if not all of you posts, you are equally committed to Kelly. That is, of course, your choice.

I am now. I come from an FF background, I left the country in 2000 when everything was going brilliantly and came back to the crap that ensued a couple of years ago. I don't think I will ever vote FF again.

I don't see any other valid options in North Tipp for me to vote for, so I'm Labour by default. As you've read my previous posts you'll see my reasons why. Alan Kelly as a candidate doesn't exactly set me on fire but the Labour party's commitment to equality and social justice is something that appeals. The social democratic model is not perfect but it's a damn sight better than the type of society Ireland has grown into over the past 10 years, where it's all cronyism and who you know and back-scratching and petty interests and elitism and materialistic bolloxology. FF/FG are no different to each other. The independents are either too extreme or too obscure or Michael Lowry. I won't vote SF. I want honesty, commitment to equality, fairness. On that basis, who do you suggest I vote for if not Alan Kelly?

Shazanne wrote: »

Many others were when they went to polling stations across the South of the country just a short time ago to put their faith in him as an MEP, but where are they now - and where will you be? However, that is you choice and your right and I accept that.

I also voted for Kelly as an MEP. I do not agree with the system of replacing him from a list, there should be a by-election. But he was asked by his party leader to run and he is the strongest potential candidate they have and could be a very strong public representative for the people of North Tipp - I don't see the problem with his candidacy.

Shazanne wrote: »

I find it less easy to accept a person giving one vote on a ballot paper in a country where there is such an effective PR system in place. Seats have been won and lost on 2nd and 3rd preferences, as you no doubt know, and there is a great deal of satisfaction in "following" your vote through the count. You are adopting the old FF way of voting - just one vote for one party.

Yes, I've had that satisfaction in the past. But it isn't a popularity contest, it's an election. Giving 2nd or 3rd preferences to people you consider to be incompetent or unsuitable is like giving a job to the least bad person. I don't agree with that. You either think someone is worth voting for or you don't. There is no one else I see in North Tipp who I think is worth a vote, so I won't be giving them one.

beagga

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

There is no one else I see in North Tipp who I think is worth a vote, so I won't be giving them one.

So if kelly wasn't running (or any other labour candidate) but the other choices remained the same can you honestly say you wouldn't vote at all?

Shazanne

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

I am now. I come from an FF background, I left the country in 2000 when everything was going brilliantly and came back to the crap that ensued a couple of years ago. I don't think I will ever vote FF again.

I don't see any other valid options in North Tipp for me to vote for, so I'm Labour by default. As you've read my previous posts you'll see my reasons why. Alan Kelly as a candidate doesn't exactly set me on fire but the Labour party's commitment to equality and social justice is something that appeals. The social democratic model is not perfect but it's a damn sight better than the type of society Ireland has grown into over the past 10 years, where it's all cronyism and who you know and back-scratching and petty interests and elitism and materialistic bolloxology. FF/FG are no different to each other. The independents are either too extreme or too obscure or Michael Lowry. I won't vote SF. I want honesty, commitment to equality, fairness. On that basis, who do you suggest I vote for if not Alan Kelly?


I also voted for Kelly as an MEP. I do not agree with the system of replacing him from a list, there should be a by-election. But he was asked by his party leader to run and he is the strongest potential candidate they have and could be a very strong public representative for the people of North Tipp - I don't see the problem with his candidacy.



Yes, I've had that satisfaction in the past. But it isn't a popularity contest, it's an election. Giving 2nd or 3rd preferences to people you consider to be incompetent or unsuitable is like giving a job to the least bad person. I don't agree with that. You either think someone is worth voting for or you don't. There is no one else I see in North Tipp who I think is worth a vote, so I won't be giving them one.

I would never dream of telling someone who to vote for, I am not a political activist and I agree with you that this time around there is very little good choice for us here in North Tipp/South Offaly. But I consider myself to be a fairly good judge of character and if you want "honesty, commitment to equality and fairness" as you say, then you are backing the wrong horse in the candidate you have chosen. I have known the individual for many years (I am local to him) and, while I am not prepared to comment on anything other than his political ability, I can assure you that the qualities you are seeking in a politician would be better found in other candidates. And, judging from your posts, you are more than capable of discovering that for yourself, if you want to.

Cat Melodeon

Shazanne wrote: »

Iif you want "honesty, commitment to equality and fairness" as you say, then you are backing the wrong horse in the candidate you have chosen. I have known the individual for many years (I am local to him) and, while I am not prepared to comment on anything other than his political ability, I can assure you that the qualities you are seeking in a politician would be better found in other candidates.

I really cannot stand this kind of nonsense. Either put something on the record or don't bother saying anything. It contributes nothing to the discussion, cannot be argued with or debated and is a very cowardly way of smearing someone.

Cat Melodeon

beagga wrote: »

So if kelly wasn't running (or any other labour candidate) but the other choices remained the same can you honestly say you wouldn't vote at all?

I really don't know. I would find it very hard not to vote. Maybe I'd have spoiled my vote? I really can't answer that. I can't imagine not voting. But no, there is no one else I'd vote for. Very slight chance with the Green candidate, but more an exercise in building plurality in the constituency than actually wanting to vote for them specifically.

Why is it so hard to think that someone would only want to vote for people/parties they actually believe in?

beagga

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

I really don't know. I would find it very hard not to vote. Maybe I'd have spoiled my vote? I really can't answer that. I can't imagine not voting. But no, there is no one else I'd vote for. Very slight chance with the Green candidate, but more an exercise in building plurality in the constituency than actually wanting to vote for them specifically.

Why is it so hard to think that someone would only want to vote for people/parties they actually believe in?

Sorry I didn't mean to come across as if I didn't think that you can only vote for people/parties or vote for one person.
I was just trying to make the point that if you can honestly say that if kelly (or labour) wasn't there you wouldn't vote because you didn't believe in anyone else.
To me there is only two/three I can honestly say I would vote for and if they weren't on the ballot paper as much as it would kill me I wouldn't vote.

Shazanne

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

I really cannot stand this kind of nonsense. Either put something on the record or don't bother saying anything. It contributes nothing to the discussion, cannot be argued with or debated and is a very cowardly way of smearing someone.

I am sorry if my comment annoys you. It is not my intention to be "cowardly" but, equally, it is not my intention to "smear" anyone's campaign and, for that reason, I cannot be more specific at this time. I debated with myself as to whether to post what I did or not. On reflection I should have followed by instinct and stayed quiet. What I posted was genuine and honest. I am not out to encourage or discourage anyone from voting for any candidate. I am not politically active, as I stated, but I do believe in honesty and I believe in the personal integrity of a candidate and not the persona they endeavour to create at Election time.
You asked for an opinion on who to vote for, I simply suggested that you check out the individuals seeking your vote. But you are obviously committed to Kelly and the best of luck to you. And, again, I am sorry to have annoyed you with my comments.

Cat Melodeon

Shazanne wrote: »

What I posted was genuine and honest.

Well we can't judge that if you don't give details now can we?

Shazanne wrote: »

You asked for an opinion on who to vote for, I simply suggested that you check out the individuals seeking your vote. But you are obviously committed to Kelly and the best of luck to you. And, again, I am sorry to have annoyed you with my comments.

I have already checked the individuals and in the absence of any individual striking me as entirely vote-worthy, I have decided to vote for the party that I really believe is vote-worthy. The only reason I am defending this at all is because in your previous posts you appear to be sniping at me personally as well as making vague unsubstantiated allegations about the candidate I have chosen. I have not done this to anyone, anywhere in this thread and I encourage you to desist. I am interested in hearing people's views and in why they are voting for who they vote for. When I disagree it is based on policy or party make-up or the public actions of the candidate, not some makey-uppy codology or passive-aggressive shítstirring. It's a shame if you allow it to descend into that with only a couple of days to go, it's been an interesting and informative thread up until this.

tipptom

Shazanne wrote: »

I would never dream of telling someone who to vote for, I am not a political activist and I agree with you that this time around there is very little good choice for us here in North Tipp/South Offaly. But I consider myself to be a fairly good judge of character and if you want "honesty, commitment to equality and fairness" as you say, then you are backing the wrong horse in the candidate you have chosen. I have known the individual for many years (I am local to him) and, while I am not prepared to comment on anything other than his political ability, I can assure you that the qualities you are seeking in a politician would be better found in other candidates. And, judging from your posts, you are more than capable of discovering that for yourself, if you want to.

If this was just about political ability we would all vote for Michael Lowry,i would be annoyed if i voted for him and someone told me afterwards about his other traits,you have smeared him already and by not saying how he falls below this standard you leave a lot to chinese whispers,maybe your standards for public office is to high compared to ours.

Cat Melodeon

If you still haven't made up your mind, try this out.

http://www.votomatic.ie

Seems I should be giving #2 to SF :eek:

CrowdedHouse

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

If you still haven't made up your mind, try this out.

http://www.votomatic.ie

Seems I should be giving #2 to SF :eek:

Same here - 'Hardcore Labour supporter' with SF 2nd

.....and that's exactly what I'll do tomorrow.......

tippspur

Cat Melodeon wrote: »

If you still haven't made up your mind, try this out.

http://www.votomatic.ie

Seems I should be giving #2 to SF :eek:

That votomatic told me ' I was very hard to please':p but that I was closest to Labour.

drunkmonkey

Has Seamus Morris a sporting chance, i'm finding it hard to believe that kelly is miles ahead of him. 3rd place is going to be a cliffhanger, SF, Labour and FF.

Shazanne

Well today's the day! We've discussed them, debated them, praised them, berated them - now it's time to get out and support them!
Best of luck to all eight of them today - it takes a lot of guts to put yourself up before the public.
I will personally be encouraging everyone I meet today to vote. I'll bring anyone who needs to be brought to the polling station, regardless of who they wish to vote for.
Looking forward to tomorrow - may the best three win.

mikemac

Done and done :cool:

Anyone else checking in?
Can't wait for tomorrow and the almighty scrap for the last seat