6.7 % rate for the bailout.

tomdeere

The people of Ireland have to stand up to this and tomorrow is the day for it, we're been run by a pack of brainless nob jockeys,:mad:

SkepticOne

There's still some negotiation to go that may vary the rate a bit. This result shouldn't be too surprising though. First we had the Morgan Kelly article before the IMF arrived that suggested that Ireland may be made an example of in order to send a message to other European countries.

Then we had Klaus Regling indicating last Monday speaking to Le Monde that "drastic conditions" and "dissuasive costs" would be attached to a bailout package URL="http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1122/1224283834648.html"]source[/URL.

eigrod

hotmail.com wrote: »

Let's see if this is a kite. On Sunday, we'll hear the actual rate will be 5% and Lenihan will try to take some credit.

At she was announcing the headlines at the top of the News she said the rate will be "near 7%", then in the main part she said 6.7% and then Whelan said it may be 6.4% or 6.7%.

Could well be a kite.

bleg

The EU have really let us down

Bob_Latchford

cant understand it. It punitive. Portugal can get 7% on the market and they are being lined up as the next "basket case baillout"

Dotsie~tmp

Absurdum wrote: »

but 6.7% is blatant punishment

last time Spain, Portugal, *insert next in line* looked, the bond markets weren't too rosy either

On Monday, Merkel defended her position behind closed doors to the parliamentary group of her conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU) and its Bavarian sister party, the Christian Social Union (CSU). According to sources who took part in the meeting, she said that aid for Ireland was necessary, but had to be tied to conditions. It was important to atone for the sins of the past, she apparently said.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,730578,00.html

Absurdum

eigrod wrote: »

At she was announcing the headlines at the top of the News she said the rate will be "near 7%", then in the main part she said 6.7% and then Whelan said it may be 6.4% or 6.7%.

Could well be a kite.

were those figures deliberately chosen to stick the knife into Vincent Brown/Paul Somerville/Brian Lucey if it is just a kite?

plot thickens

not the time to be playing games like this, that's for sure

donkey balls

greendom wrote: »

Think you'd be mad not to :mad:

Ah im getting old now nearly hitting 40 in a few years from now:D have a house here friends etc if i was younger i would be gone ages ago.
might wait till jan/feb to see if things pick up regarding the jobs sector even though i work at the moment through an agency.:mad:

kaiser sauze

SkepticOne wrote: »

There's still some negotiation to go that may vary the rate a bit. This result shouldn't be too surprising though. First we had the Morgan Kelly article before the IMF arrived that suggested that Ireland may be made an example of in order to send a message to other European countries.

Then we had Klaus Regling indicating last Monday speaking to Le Monde that "drastic conditions" and "dissuasive costs" would be attached to a bailout package URL="http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1122/1224283834648.html"]source[/URL.

Wow, just wow!

Although earlier in that article he says that Ireland will pay close to 5%, there is still some hope.

ArtSmart

Scofflaw wrote: »

Except that last time we looked, the most respectable moneylenders were charging north of 8%.

That's a higher figure than might have been expected, but one thing it does is make us reluctant to actually use the facility, and keen to get back into the bond markets, because the minute the bond rates drop below 6.7% it makes no sense to draw against the facility any more.

Won't make sense if we're paying interest on the mere existence of the facility, though, and pretty bad if we have to draw down most or all of the facility.

cordially,
Scofflaw

That of course is going on Lenihan's 'fire-power' assumption / speech.

but i'm inclined to ask would the EU/IMF really be gathering to put in place a 'contingency' lifeboat - and also believe it will be little used?

DiscoStu

gambiaman wrote: »

Just what would be the EU's reasoning behind such a punitive and destructive rate?

I would imagine the slow asphyxiation of the economy will give time for the country to be asset stripped to pay the bondholders. There will be less of an impact on the overall stability of euro if this process can be stretched out over a number of years as opposed to a quick default where they get nothing and the shock might bring down the euro.

Brian010

Slave generation :mad:

Butch Cassidy

If, IF Lenihan, Kev Cardiff & the other mandarins leaked this just so they could take credit for a lower rate on Sunday then that is grotesequely cynical and still worthy of a flogging.

Either they've tried the stroke of the decade or they've just sold us up a sh*t creek.

How/why the hell would Honohan go for this?

hotmail.com

Anything over 6% isn't affordable?

Dotsie~tmp

Fianna Fail. Born from a badly negotiated deal. Died because of a horrendous one.

Inquitus

Scofflaw wrote: »

Except that last time we looked, the most respectable moneylenders were charging north of 8%.

That's a higher figure than might have been expected, but one thing it does is make us reluctant to actually use the facility, and keen to get back into the bond markets, because the minute the bond rates drop below 6.7% it makes no sense to draw against the facility any more.

Won't make sense if we're paying interest on the mere existence of the facility, though, and pretty bad if we have to draw down most or all of the facility.

cordially,
Scofflaw

I normally agree with your POV Scofflaw, but it seems we will have to draw down a large part of this imminently to recapitalise the banks, and will start to incur punitive interest on that portion immediately. We will then have to begin drawing down a portion of the rest in Q1/2 next year as and when we require funds to run the nation. I don't see any chance of us returning to the bond markets at <6.7% until 2012 or perhaps 2013.

I have generally been relatively optimistic that with austerity and MNC driven export growth we might have had a chance to work our way out of this hole without a need to default. At 6.7% this is clearly impossible. I am beginning to think a structured and orderly default is a better option. If this is the way it pans out, I now fear for my 3 childrens future in this country, and will have to give things 12mths and consider options in the UK.

Kind regards,

Inq

DiscoStu

hotmail.com wrote: »

Anything over 6% isn't affordable?

Anything over the expected economic growth rate over the term of the loan is unaffordable. In other words any rate with a positive sign attached to it.

bleg

There must be a lot more dirt to come out in the wash.

Mr.Micro

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

If, IF Lenihan, Kev Cardiff & the other mandarins leaked this just so they could take credit for a lower rate on Sunday then that is grotesequely cynical and still worthy of a flogging.

Either they've tried the stroke of the decade or they've just sold us up a sh*t creek.

How/why the hell would Honohan go for this?

Its going to be dire if its 6.7% or anything above 4%. Lenny is probably not even there as he knows nothing about Economics. He will just read from the autocue when it is done. He will say how great it is and its a road to recovery. One would almost think in a perverse way that the higher the rate the more difficulty the next Government will have so FF could not give a damn as it will more than likely be someone else's problem?

Phoenix Park

Oh come on....it's cheaper than most credit cards!


Just

Laois_Man

Scofflaw wrote: »

Except that last time we looked, the most respectable moneylenders were charging north of 8%.

That's a higher figure than might have been expected, but one thing it does is make us reluctant to actually use the facility, and keen to get back into the bond markets, because the minute the bond rates drop below 6.7% it makes no sense to draw against the facility any more.

Won't make sense if we're paying interest on the mere existence of the facility, though, and pretty bad if we have to draw down most or all of the facility.

cordially,
Scofflaw

We'll have the IMF portion of the money already wiped out before the election and we'll have a significant bite taken out of the rest. And there's absolutely no hope of the markets offering anything below rates of 7% before then!

anoble66

this is ridiculous, we have a government which shouldnt even be in power right now, negotiating a deal no-one wants. How the fcking hell do we stop this?? :mad::mad:

Freiheit

what can we as ordinary citizens do about this????:mad:

I was going to say that Fianna Fail have done as much damage to Ireland as the Nazi's did to Germany, but no, the International community helped Germany rebuild after the war whereas they're stamping on us....with the aim of keeping us down...

Butch Cassidy

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Its going to be dire if its 6.7% or anything above 4%. Lenny is probably not even there as he knows nothing about Economics. He will just read from the autocue when it is done. He will say how great it is and its a road to recovery. One would almost think in a perverse way that the higher the rate the more difficulty the next Government will have so FF could not give a damn as it will more than likely be someone else's problem?

Michael Noonan made a comment the other day on Prime Time about being shocked that the IMF were being "kinder" than "our EU friends".

This is just the Europeans punishing us

SkepticOne

gambiaman wrote: »

Just what would be the EU's reasoning behind such a punitive and destructive rate?

My thinking is that it buys a bit of time. Sure we can't afford to pay it back but we can still spend a bit of time drawing the money down and putting it into our banks honouring the Croke Park agreement etc. From the EU's point of view it sends a message to the likes of Spain, Portugal etc. that a bailout won't be an easy option and they should seek to cut their deficit as much as possible.

Then in a couple of years, Ireland can seek a restructuring of the debt run up in the current bailout. That may be the thinking behind it if we are to assume there's benign reasoning at work.

On the other hand it could simply be that other European states are just unwilling to lend to Ireland unless the rates are very high. They would rather not lend at all really. This second possibility is more likely in my opinion.

Butch Cassidy

Freiheit wrote: »

what can we as ordinary citizens do about this????:mad:

Well there's gonna be a protest in Dublin tomorrow.....

Sand

Right, well thats the final nail in the coffin of the rumours of DoF competence.

Time to default. Not even as a negotiating tactic. Just announce Ireland made a critical error in guaranteeing the banks without knowing how bad things were, under bad advice and under deceit from the banks themselves.

Then strategic defaults, on the NAMA bonds first and foremost with the lightest cuts on the states own bond issues to the open market. Tell the ECB we are happy to work with them to minimise the chaos, but we're defaulting and thats the end of it.

The "markets" will understand, its what they would do under similar circumstances - theyll probably welcome the surprising outbreak of common sense. It wont be easy, but it would have been a damn sight easier if it had been done back in 2008, or even back in September 2010 instead of us wasting time. The banks have always been far too big for the state to save, we did our best, now its time to save ourselves.

ArtSmart

Inquitus wrote: »

I normally agree with your POV Scofflaw, but it seems we will have to draw down a large part of this imminently to recapitalise the banks, and will start to incur punitive interest on that portion immediately. We will then have to begin drawing down a portion of the rest in Q1/2 next year as and when we require funds to run the nation. I don't see any chance of us returning to the bond markets at <6.7% until 2012 or perhaps 2013.

I have generally been relatively optimistic that with austerity and MNC driven export growth we might have had a chance to work our way out of this hole without a need to default. At 6.7% this is clearly impossible. I am beginning to think a structured and orderly default is a better option. If this is the way it pans out, I now fear for my 3 childrens future in this country, and will have to give things 12mths and consider options in the UK.

Kind regards,

Inq

+1

They better clarify this soon. how could this hit the airwaves not coming from lenihan? Outrageous.
either RTE have fooked up royally or FF are
1/ playing a cynical game = death for them
2/ it's true and lenihan is hiding
3/ it's true and RTE have a scoop - calmly announced - for once i wud have liked some sense of emotion from them - i guess VB will make up the shortfall unfortunately.

carrolls

Freiheit wrote: »

what can we as ordinary citizens do about this????:mad:

Buy gold or kiss your ass goodbye. Why isn't Fitzpatrick rotting in prison?

Bob_Latchford

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

Michael Noonan made a comment the other day on Prime Time about being shocked that the IMF were being "kinder" than "our EU friends".

This is just the Europeans punishing us

If its true its punitive. Its a deal from competitors rather than friends helping.
Germans being efficient again