Why can't a medium PROVE the ability exists?

KeithAFC

We see mediums make a lot of claims and out of all the things in the paranormal, mediumship is one of them which we can really test and see if there is anything to it. When will a medium take the challenge to prove that you can indeed talk to spirit or predict the future and basically give mediumship the boost it needs because at the moment, all i see is a lot of people making good money from it but nothing else.

There is so many mediums in the world, so many big name mediums too, a lot of nice mediums as well but at the end of the day, we just don't have any proof in what they do is real.

There is many ways to test mediumship out but no one has ever been precise in what they say or do. A lot of it is generalised comments.

Dave!

Note that (after this post ), the James Randi challenge does not need to be mentioned in this thread. I'm sure there are plenty of scientists around that would be willing to test someone if they were so inclined. The New England Skeptical Society is one society that I know investigates paranormal claims.

Oryx

Gordon smith mentions having been tested, but Id have to look up the details.

Gizmoisgiddy

Do some research on it, there has been a huge amount of research done on healing,
psychic ability and clairvoyance.

The problem isn't the proof, it's trying to find the proof thats already out there.
The american government have declassified documents on remote viewing
A man in the US was tested on that said he could live on light alone, and was proven right

There is hundreds of books online that show proof of reincarnation
The research doesn't become mainstream, it's normally put in scientific papers and small publications, they never really make the mainstream media.

It's all about keeping an open mind, and actually searching for the information, because only when you've done the research can you call yourself a true non-believer.

apparently 90% of our universe is made up of dark matter, which no scientist has come up with an explanation so far, and we are still discovering animals and plantlife on our own planet now.
Why would it be so weird that we find more stuff about our own bodies now?

I've given proof to a few skeptics before, and proof doesn't help a skeptic.
Because skepticism becomes a belief system after a while, and even when placed with pure facts and figures, every skeptic I have ever given a reading to, even after aknowledging that there is no way I could have known what I told them, that they still didn't believe.

It comes to a point where facts aren't what your looking for anymore, if you were looking for facts, then you would have found them by now.
You want to believe. Which is something completely different, and you should not be looking for proof, but looking at the philosophy of why it is, or is not real.
If you want to make a statement that there is no proof, it's just a matter of opinion on the documents released so far

Dave!

Gizmoisgiddy wrote: »

Do some research on it, there has been a huge amount of research done on healing,
psychic ability and clairvoyance.

The problem isn't the proof, it's trying to find the proof thats already out there.
The american government have declassified documents on remote viewing
A man in the US was tested on that said he could live on light alone, and was proven right

There is hundreds of books online that show proof of reincarnation
The research doesn't become mainstream, it's normally put in scientific papers and small publications, they never really make the mainstream media.

It's all about keeping an open mind, and actually searching for the information, because only when you've done the research can you call yourself a true non-believer.

hmmmm, I'm skeptical :pac: (often maligned) New Scientist magazine recently published an article about a study into pre-cognition, that's fairly mainstream. What are these hundreds of books that show proof of reincarnation? Are these perchance a bunch of stories with no scientific basis?

Gizmoisgiddy wrote: »

apparently 90% of our universe is made up of dark matter, which no scientist has come up with an explanation so far, and we are still discovering animals and plantlife on our own planet now.
Why would it be so weird that we find more stuff about our own bodies now?

Yeah exactly, so new discoveries are accepted when they're accompanied by sold evidence! So what makes you think that discoveries about our own bodies would be suppressed or censored, whereas other research is not?

Gizmoisgiddy wrote: »

I've given proof to a few skeptics before, and proof doesn't help a skeptic.
Because skepticism becomes a belief system after a while, and even when placed with pure facts and figures, every skeptic I have ever given a reading to, even after aknowledging that there is no way I could have known what I told them, that they still didn't believe.

It comes to a point where facts aren't what your looking for anymore, if you were looking for facts, then you would have found them by now.
You want to believe. Which is something completely different, and you should not be looking for proof, but looking at the philosophy of why it is, or is not real.
If you want to make a statement that there is no proof, it's just a matter of opinion on the documents released so far

I think you'll find that most (real) skeptics are open to evidence, and have no emotional attachment to the claim. It's the process that's important. If the evidence points to one conclusion, then an open minded skeptic should believe that. If new data supports a different conclusion, then that should be believed. You think 'skeptics' care whether Bigfoot, UFOs, telepathy, etc., are true? I think most would find it rather cool if they were true -- I certainly would!

MrStuffins

Gizmoisgiddy wrote: »

It's all about keeping an open mind.........

No it's not, it's about proof!

It seems your definition of proof is different to mine though. Proof of reincarnation?

Riamfada

Giz, at the risk of wasting my time could you link to some of these academic papers that prove the existence of mediums and other paranormal phenomenon.

Somehow I think the links will have animated GIF's and MIDI files.


Thanks in advance!

Oryx

Thread moved to skeptic forum

Dave!

Dunno if that's the best place for it, the OP is a bit of a 'believer', and I think he was more aiming the question at the paranormal crowd...

But you're the boss!

Oryx

Believers can be skeptical too. Just seemed to have a tone that fit here but if the op disagrees he can pm.

KeithAFC

Dave! wrote: »

Dunno if that's the best place for it, the OP is a bit of a 'believer', and I think he was more aiming the question at the paranormal crowd...

But you're the boss!

I am and im not (i know it sounds silly lol)

I mean, i believe it could be possible but this is regarding to mediumship. We can test mediumship and im just wondering when will one step up to the plate and take proper tests.

Oryx

When you say proper tests, what kind are you thinking of?

MrStuffins

Oryx wrote: »

When you say proper tests, what kind are you thinking of?

Ones that can prove what they claim i'd imagine.

Has one ever been able to prove without doubt that they can do what they claim? It should be pretty simple!

Riamfada

MrStuffins wrote: »

Ones that can prove what they claim i'd imagine.

Has one ever been able to prove without doubt that they can do what they claim? It should be pretty simple!

I would imagine that if they had been you wouldn't be asking that question. Now if you will excuse me Im off to prove the existence of the Higgs Boson, that should be pretty simple I would imagine.

MrStuffins

Grimes wrote: »

I would imagine that if they had been you wouldn't be asking that question. Now if you will excuse me Im off to prove the existence of the Higgs Boson, that should be pretty simple I would imagine.

My female friends have this new trend of having parties and hiring a psychic or a medium.

I have realised that my one of my friends has done this more times than i have hired tradesmen to come to my house.

Now, if i ask a plumber, or a carpenter, or a builder to prove to me that they can do what they claim. There's no problem whatsoever. Easy peasy! The same should be said of a psychic.

nozzferrahhtoo

Gizmoisgiddy wrote: »

A man in the US was tested on that said he could live on light alone, and was proven right

I am agog to see the links for this claim.

kylith

Gizmoisgiddy wrote: »

Do some research on it, there has been a huge amount of research done on healing,
psychic ability and clairvoyance.

The problem isn't the proof, it's trying to find the proof thats already out there.
The american government have declassified documents on remote viewing
A man in the US was tested on that said he could live on light alone, and was proven right

There is hundreds of books online that show proof of reincarnation
The research doesn't become mainstream, it's normally put in scientific papers and small publications, they never really make the mainstream media.

It's all about keeping an open mind, and actually searching for the information, because only when you've done the research can you call yourself a true non-believer.

apparently 90% of our universe is made up of dark matter, which no scientist has come up with an explanation so far, and we are still discovering animals and plantlife on our own planet now.
Why would it be so weird that we find more stuff about our own bodies now?

I've given proof to a few skeptics before, and proof doesn't help a skeptic.
Because skepticism becomes a belief system after a while, and even when placed with pure facts and figures, every skeptic I have ever given a reading to, even after aknowledging that there is no way I could have known what I told them, that they still didn't believe.

It comes to a point where facts aren't what your looking for anymore, if you were looking for facts, then you would have found them by now.
You want to believe. Which is something completely different, and you should not be looking for proof, but looking at the philosophy of why it is, or is not real.
If you want to make a statement that there is no proof, it's just a matter of opinion on the documents released so far

I find it difficult to believe that if there were actual, proveable evidence out there that the psychic community wouldn't have done everything in its power to get that information in the public domain. Can you provide links to these studie, please?

Riamfada

MrStuffins wrote: »

My female friends have this new trend of having parties and hiring a psychic or a medium.

I have realised that my one of my friends has done this more times than i have hired tradesmen to come to my house.

Now, if i ask a plumber, or a carpenter, or a builder to prove to me that they can do what they claim. There's no problem whatsoever. Easy peasy! The same should be said of a psychic.

Then your friend is an idiot with more money than brains. Someone should tell them the celtic tiger is over and to stop pissing away money.

Also once we had a magician come over for a kids party. Turns out the cheating bastard wasnt even using real magic. I mean seriously.

MrStuffins

Grimes wrote: »

Then your friend is an idiot with more money than brains. Someone should tell them the celtic tiger is over and to stop pissing away money.

Also once we had a magician come over for a kids party. Turns out the cheating bastard wasnt even using real magic. I mean seriously.

I have many times! It's ridiculous!

Also, did you get a refund for the magician? I once got a magician for a kids party and he made several of the kids disappear......... never did see them again..... his name was Gary something...... used to be some sort of singer?

Riamfada

MrStuffins wrote: »

I have many times! It's ridiculous!

Also, did you get a refund for the magician? I once got a magician for a kids party and he made several of the kids disappear......... never did see them again..... his name was Gary something...... used to be some sort of singer?

Not sure but he pulled up in a blue Mercedes 200CLK. Good money in it, also I know some other mediums drive the same class Mercedes. Im not saying its fake or its real (although I have met alot of fakes) there is certainly good money in it.

MrStuffins

Grimes wrote: »

Not sure but he pulled up in a blue Mercedes 200CLK. Good money in it, also I know some other mediums drive the same class Mercedes. Im not saying its fake or its real (although I have met alot of fakes) there is certainly good money in it.

I've also met A LOT of fakes. I've never once met a real one (one who could prove he was real)

In fact, i've never even heard of one who could prove it.

In my opinion it's about as real as magic.

Riamfada

MrStuffins wrote: »

I've also met A LOT of fakes. I've never once met a real one (one who could prove he was real)

In fact, i've never even heard of one who could prove it.

In my opinion it's about as real as magic.

I dunno. I have met a fair few fakes and Ive met a few who left me thinking.However when out ghost hunting its fun just to go along with it and get into the spiritof things.

Like a horror film, I know its not real but for 90 minutes Im going to turn my brain off and see what happens.

the_syco

kylith wrote: »

I find it difficult to believe that if there were actual, proveable evidence out there that the psychic community wouldn't have done everything in its power to get that information in the public domain. Can you provide links to these studie, please?

Like the way a magician likes to keep it's tricks secret so that they can continue to make money from our naiveness, I wonder would they?

Dave!

Dave! wrote: »

Dunno if that's the best place for it, the OP is a bit of a 'believer', and I think he was more aiming the question at the paranormal crowd...

But you're the boss!

Maybe you should ask about setting up a non believer forum ? You might be more comfortable there ?

maccored

shouldnt there be a 'psychics are fake' forum? the skeptic forum seems to be clogged with these kinds of threads. Bore ring.

Riamfada

Aethist forum? Or alternatively the Stop Ressurecting Dead Threads for no Reason forum?

MrMojoRisin

kylith wrote: »

I find it difficult to believe that if there were actual, proveable evidence out there that the psychic community wouldn't have done everything in its power to get that information in the public domain. Can you provide links to these studies, please?

This research paper had some interesting results: http://www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse_14_1_targ.pdf

The following details testing carried out by the CIA in the Stanford Research Institute:
http://www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse_10_1_puthoff.pdf

nozzferrahhtoo

Yea it is good well funded institutes like the CIA are engaged in testing. Also interesting that their testing is returning nothing of note is it not? There simply is no evidence forthcoming that such phenomena exist, regardless of how much testing we have thus far done.

What you have in your links however is not peer reviewed science but an organisation with a vested interest in finding such phenomena publishing itself in order to lead people into thinking there is valid evidence there.

There simply is none forthcoming. No peer reviewed papers find that such things exist or can find any results that differ from basic guess work results by non "psychics".

Package

MrStuffins wrote: »

No it's not, it's about proof!

It seems your definition of proof is different to mine though. Proof of reincarnation?

There has been so much mention of proof from the skeptics corner, which begs the question, what would you consider PROOF ? Since being a medium is all about bringing messages from the dead, and since the skeptics don't believe in life after death, would you agree they for yiu guys there can be No proof?

So that leaves the rest of the paranormal world. How would you design a test to prove or disprove paranormal happenings.

Riamfada wrote: »

Also once we had a magician come over for a kids party. Turns out the cheating bastard wasnt even using real magic. I mean seriously.

So real magic would be what exactly? In which case its all about what your willing to pay for for your own entertainment ?

Just read this ....

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3373086/Psychics-grave-find-before-cops.html

MrStuffins

Package wrote: »

There has been so much mention of proof from the skeptics corner, which begs the question, what would you consider PROOF ? Since being a medium is all about bringing messages from the dead, and since the skeptics don't believe in life after death, would you agree they for yiu guys there can be No proof?

Of course not, don't be so ridiculous!

But maybe there IS truth to this afterlife business.

AFter all, this thread has been dead for a long time now and i'm still receiving messages from it!