Why can't a medium PROVE the ability exists?

MrStuffins

Package wrote: »

such as?

For one, Raphael Gasson

Penn

MrStuffins wrote: »

For one, Raphael Gasson

For two, Mark Edwards.

6mins in (although the whole episode is worth watching)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEHMkU5ht-E

Package

MrStuffins wrote: »

Your flat earth comparison is boring!

sorry i dont meet your entertainment requirements

MrStuffins wrote: »

I presume you know what Cold Reading is. Why do you think I should believe that those who are claiming to be mediums are not in fact using Cold Reading and are in fact speaking to the dead?

of course i do,, and YES,, thats exactly what i think you should believe,, as if that wasnt an obvious answer

MrStuffins wrote: »

And do you not think that if they COULD prove it, they would step up to every single challenge put to them and prove it? this doesn't happen.

well yes and no,, some are interested, and some are not. after all, being a medium is NOT about proving oneself to the skeptics, as previosly stated its about helping people that need help. Saying that, if i could prove it, i would.

MrStuffins wrote: »

if I had the ability to actually speak to dead people, i'd be shouting it from the roof tops and anyone who didn't believe me, I would show them!

well you would be a different type of person and probably wouldnt want to just have a cool talent just to show it off.

Package

MrStuffins wrote: »

For one, Raphael Gasson

dont know much about him,, do you have a link or a book with him saying he never spoke to the dead?

yeah that video is ok,, a bit of a laugh really. making a point out of not being allowed to video tape inside, by that reckoning, in concerts and other Tv shows when your not allowed video, there must be something really dodgy going on.

editing,, of course they are gonna pick the best bits instead of having a two hour show, thats what television is, they do however show a lot of misses on the shows.

and the audience interviews, maybe 3 skeptics? Im sure they interviewed more than three people, why didnt they show a believers interview? all in the favour of one sided arguing huh?

Mark edwards huh.. ive heard of people being conned out of tens of thousands of pounds by fake psychcis, ive no idea why anyone would give them tens of thousands of pounds, but there ya go.

so your again basing an argument on how a tv show is edited? im sure if you had an hour long conversation with someone you could guess a lot of things correct. does that mean that the person would think your a psychic? i know i wouldnt.

Penn

Package wrote: »

dont know much about him,, do you have a link or a book with him saying he never spoke to the dead?

yeah that video is ok,, a bit of a laugh really. making a point out of not being allowed to video tape inside, by that reckoning, in concerts and other Tv shows when your not allowed video, there must be something really dodgy going on.

editing,, of course they are gonna pick the best bits instead of having a two hour show, thats what television is, they do however show a lot of misses on the shows.

and the audience interviews, maybe 3 skeptics? Im sure they interviewed more than three people, why didnt they show a believers interview? all in the favour of one sided arguing huh?

Mark edwards huh.. ive heard of people being conned out of tens of thousands of pounds by fake psychcis, ive no idea why anyone would give them tens of thousands of pounds, but there ya go.

so your again basing an argument on how a tv show is edited? im sure if you had an hour long conversation with someone you could guess a lot of things correct. does that mean that the person would think your a psychic? i know i wouldnt.

I was only referencing the last minute or so of the video, where Mark Edwards says he has no psychic abilities, yet worked as a medium for many years. The show itself is extremely biased, I have no problem conceding that point. Doesn't change the fact that there, as I said, are mediums who have come forth and said they have never spoken to the dead.

Also, as for people giving him tens of thousands of pounds, I doubt he meant that a few people gave him over $10,000. He meant that over they years, with the number of people who hired him, he would have earned tens of thousands of pounds.

Also:

Package wrote: »

and the audience interviews, maybe 3 skeptics? Im sure they interviewed more than three people, why didnt they show a believers interview? all in the favour of one sided arguing huh?

I'm not sure which part of the video you're talking about, but what does it matter if they were skeptics or believers? If the medium had spoken to the dead, right in front of their eyes, how could they dispute that whether they were skeptics or not? If the medium had demonstrated that they knew stuff that only the dead would know, would that not make a believer out of them?

Dave!

Barrington wrote: »

I was only referencing the last minute or so of the video, where Mark Edwards says he has no psychic abilities, yet worked as a medium for many years. The show itself is extremely biased, I have no problem conceding that point. Doesn't change the fact that there, as I said, are mediums who have come forth and said they have never spoken to the dead.

Also, as for people giving him tens of thousands of pounds, I doubt he meant that a few people gave him over $10,000. He meant that over they years, with the number of people who hired him, he would have earned tens of thousands of pounds.

Also:


I'm not sure which part of the video you're talking about, but what does it matter if they were skeptics or believers? If the medium had spoken to the dead, right in front of their eyes, how could they dispute that whether they were skeptics or not? If the medium had demonstrated that they knew stuff that only the dead would know, would that not make a believer out of them?

There are people who spend thousands on these people though. It makes sense really -- if you believe that your deceased relative is still floating around, and can only communicate through this medium, then why wouldn't you keep paying in order to get messages off them?

http://whatstheharm.net/psychics.html

Package

Barrington wrote: »

I was only referencing the last minute or so of the video, where Mark Edwards says he has no psychic abilities, yet worked as a medium for many years.
he would have earned tens of thousands of pounds.

well hopefully, the days of people paying crazy money for readings is gone.. i dont think 50 euro is crazy money, and as ive said, if it takes the weight off peoples shoulders and they genuinely belive that the message os coming from their dead relatives and it does the person good. 50 euro is a small price to pay to make yourself that bit happier.

Barrington wrote: »

I'm not sure which part of the video you're talking about, but what does it matter if they were skeptics or believers? If the medium had spoken to the dead, right in front of their eyes, how could they dispute that whether they were skeptics or not? If the medium had demonstrated that they knew stuff that only the dead would know, would that not make a believer out of them?

well disregarding the video, if ten people get a reading and another 100 people believe but didnt get a reading, and all they interview, or all they show, are skeptics, then its hardly fair. BOTH sides should be given a fair voice.

Dave! wrote: »

There are people who spend thousands on these people though. It makes sense really -- if you believe that your deceased relative is still floating around, and can only communicate through this medium, then why wouldn't you keep paying in order to get messages off them?

http://whatstheharm.net/psychics.html

well hopefully this has all changed,, good mediums, taking aside the fact that you believe or do not believe, dont charge that much,,. so with a bit of luck, people will not be prayed on by scam artists.

and before you say that all mediums are scam artists. do you put the mediums that read for free in the same vain as those who charge?

MrStuffins

Package wrote: »

well hopefully, the days of people paying crazy money for readings is gone.. i dont think 50 euro is crazy money, and as ive said, if it takes the weight off peoples shoulders and they genuinely belive that the message os coming from their dead relatives and it does the person good. 50 euro is a small price to pay to make yourself that bit happier.

Jesus, so presuming these Mediums know they're frauds (which a lot of them clearly do) you think it's ok for them to take €50 off some gullible and hurt person, just because that person might believe the lies he's telling and feel better about speaking to their dead relatives? You think exploitation of the grieving and vulnerable is ok just because it might make them feel a bit better?

That's a horrible and dangerous seniment. It's because of people with your attitude that these fraudsters are getting away with this! Frankly, people with this attitude make me sick!

Death is a reality my friend, and these people are adults. they do NOT need some fraudster duping them out of their money and pretending that all he's doing is holding their hand and telling them it's alright.

Unbelievable!

Package

MrStuffins wrote: »

That's a horrible and dangerous seniment. It's because of people with your attitude that these fraudsters are getting away with this! Frankly, people with this attitude make me sick!

just because you try to project your own believe onto me to make your comments fit doesnt make it so pal. see, the difference between me and you is, I believe, YOU dont. therefore, I dont believe that they are frauding anyone, I believe that are bringing messages. So my ATTITUDE is different that yours, and your bigoted attitude is not my own.

MrStuffins wrote: »

Death is a reality my friend, and these people are adults. they do NOT need some fraudster duping them out of their money and pretending that all he's doing is holding their hand and telling them it's alright.

I think youll find that theatres aall over the world are full of people who need these messages,, just because you dont believe doesnt mean that the women who have waited years for a message from their husband or son need it any less than you not needing it.

so do me a favour and dont force your negative attitude onto me

MrStuffins

These people believe because they want to believe. They want so desperately to speak to their dwad loved ones that they will believe anything spoon fed to them.

If these mediums really did have a "gift", then don't you think they would give these messages for free? Why the hell should I have to pay money for this?

People are being duped and i'd feel sorry for them. I wouldn't feel sorry for you because your belief in them stems from pure ignorance and refusal to even search for proof. But these people are being taken advantage of and being defrauded. It's sick!

Penn

Package wrote: »

just because you try to project your own believe onto me to make your comments fit doesnt make it so pal. see, the difference between me and you is, I believe, YOU dont. therefore, I dont believe that they are frauding anyone, I believe that are bringing messages. So my ATTITUDE is different that yours, and your bigoted attitude is not my own.



I think youll find that theatres aall over the world are full of people who need these messages,, just because you dont believe doesnt mean that the women who have waited years for a message from their husband or son need it any less than you not needing it.

so do me a favour and dont force your negative attitude onto me

People are not in need of these messages. They WANT those messages. They want to know that their loved ones are happy and safe beyond the grave. They want to say what they didn't get the chance to say before their loved one died.

However, they aren't talking to their loved ones. They're talking to the medium's interpretation of what the client wants to hear. Will it comfort them? Yes. But without the medium, will they come to terms with their issues themselves? Yes. Maybe quicker with a psychiatrist who is actually trained to help people, but they will come to terms with their loved ones passing.

Package

MrStuffins wrote: »

I wouldn't feel sorry for you because your belief in them stems from pure ignorance and refusal to even search for proof. !

yeah sure thing buddy. amazing stuff there. Religious wars start with that type of thinking..

You : your beliefs are wrong, your ignorant
Me : Its my beliefs and i choose to believe
You : your wrong cause you have no proof, you have no right to believe when you cant prove what you believe in.

see where that is going?

Package

Barrington wrote: »

People are not in need of these messages. They WANT those messages. They want to know that their loved ones are happy and safe beyond the grave. They want to say what they didn't get the chance to say before their loved one died.

However, they aren't talking to their loved ones. They're talking to the medium's interpretation of what the client wants to hear. Will it comfort them? Yes. But without the medium, will they come to terms with their issues themselves? Yes. Maybe quicker with a psychiatrist who is actually trained to help people, but they will come to terms with their loved ones passing.

so helping people is wrong, if your not a qualified PHD. alert the world.. STOP HELPING PEOPLE

MrStuffins

Package wrote: »

yeah sure thing buddy. amazing stuff there. Religious wars start with that type of thinking..

You : your beliefs are wrong, your ignorant
Me : Its my beliefs and i choose to believe
You : your wrong cause you have no proof, you have no right to believe when you cant prove what you believe in.

see where that is going?

Yeah, i see where it's going. You're talking ballocks!

Where did I say you had no right to believe anything? All I said was that I wouldn't feel sorry for you for choosing to believe this nonsense. but i'd feel sorry for those who are so desperate to speak to their dead loved ones that they clutch to mediumship!

So what you've done here is fail to comprehend what I was saying, put words into my mouth, and convenoently ignored the rest of my posts.

Somehow i'm not surprised you'd be willing to pay someone €50 to give you messages from another dimension :rolleyes:

MrStuffins

Package wrote: »

so helping people is wrong, if your not a qualified PHD. alert the world.. STOP HELPING PEOPLE

You see, this is your attitude. It's NOT helping people at all. It's exploiting them.

Also, those with PHDs who help people don't require the recipient to "just believe" everything they say. Their expertise lies in years and years of study, experience and knowledge.

Mediums just say they're speaking to dead people and you just have to believe them for it to work. Which universities offer PHDs in mediumship?

Seriously, your arguements are becoming more and more ridiculous!

Package

MrStuffins wrote: »

Where did I say you had no right to believe anything? All I said was that I wouldn't feel sorry for you for choosing to believe this nonsense. but i'd feel sorry for those who are so desperate to speak to their dead loved ones that they clutch to mediumship!

thats not all you said..

called mediums frauds and liars, you called believers gullible, you called my beliefs ignorant. and all because YOU dont believe, and there is no proof. so All religious people in the world. which is most of the worlds population are wrong to believe?

MrStuffins wrote: »

and convenoently ignored the rest of my posts.

which bits did i ignore and ill do my best to respond, and maybe you can respond to all the bits that skeptics have conveniently ignored in my posts?

Penn

Package wrote: »

so helping people is wrong, if your not a qualified PHD. alert the world.. STOP HELPING PEOPLE

Or... help people by actually helping them come to terms with their grief rather than lying to them to make them feel better.

MrStuffins

Package wrote: »

thats not all you said..

called mediums frauds and liars, you called believers gullible, you called my beliefs ignorant. and all because YOU dont believe, and there is no proof. so All religious people in the world. which is most of the worlds population are wrong to believe?

Yes. Mediums are frauds. If not, they can easily prove it. I'd imagine if I had this "gift", i could easily prove it.

Believers ARE gullible! Because, despite there being no proof, they just believe because they WANT to believe. If i said I had a house made of cheese on Neptune, you wouldn't believe me unless I proved it to you. Yet somehow these people believe without ANY proof.

And yes, in my opinion religious people are wrong to believe! I know a lot of Christians for example who are so shockingly ignorant! I have friends who believe in The Bible, that Adam and Eve were the first people and that the earth is only 12000 years old. They think that Evolution is a myth, even though it is undeniably proven! One of my friends actually thinks that Noah's Ark existed. Holy Mother!

They completely ignore ALL of the undeniable proof. And why?

Because it's their "beliefs". Pffft! Believing in something is no excuse for complete ignorance!

Luckily for you this isn't a debate on God, because there's even less proof for that then there is for Mediumship!

which bits did i ignore and ill do my best to respond, and maybe you can respond to all the bits that skeptics have conveniently ignored in my posts?

I'm not going to pick through your questions to others and answer them If you direct a post at me I will reply.

Cavehill Red

Bottom line - all mediums are classified as 'entertainers'. If you look at any advertising in the print press or on official publicity for a medium show, there is always small print revealing that the purpose of the show 'is for entertainment only.'
This is a legal requirement because not one of them can prove they communicate with the dead, and they need the escape clause of 'entertainment only' for when an irate punter tries to sue them for telling them a load of sh1t about dead granny.

Package

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yes. Mediums are frauds. If not, they can easily prove it. I'd imagine if I had this "gift", i could easily prove it.

Believers ARE gullible! Because, despite there being no proof, they just believe because they WANT to believe. If i said I had a house made of cheese on Neptune, you wouldn't believe me unless I proved it to you. Yet somehow these people believe without ANY proof.

And yes, in my opinion religious people are wrong to believe! I know a lot of Christians for example who are so shockingly ignorant! I have friends who believe in The Bible, that Adam and Eve were the first people and that the earth is only 12000 years old. They think that Evolution is a myth, even though it is undeniably proven! One of my friends actually thinks that Noah's Ark existed. Holy Mother!

They completely ignore ALL of the undeniable proof. And why?

Because it's their "beliefs". Pffft! Believing in something is no excuse for complete ignorance!

Luckily for you this isn't a debate on God, because there's even less proof for that then there is for Mediumship!




I'm not going to pick through your questions to others and answer them If you direct a post at me I will reply.

im not religious, i dont believe in all that noahs ark stuff, or the adam and eve stuff, then again, i dont go around saying , "what? you believe in that ****? your wrong, WRONG i tell ya, there is no evidence, its all bul****" . Im just happy that they have faith in something.

In my opinion,, this argument is going nowhere. im NOT tryin to convert anyone, far from it, I am however gonna argue with people who just come out and say Im wrong because i dont agree with them. Scientifically proven or not.

anyway. nice argueing with you all.

MrStuffins

Package wrote: »

im not religious, i dont believe in all that noahs ark stuff, or the adam and eve stuff, then again, i dont go around saying , "what? you believe in that ****? your wrong, WRONG i tell ya, there is no evidence, its all bul****" . Im just happy that they have faith in something.

In my opinion,, this argument is going nowhere. im NOT tryin to convert anyone, far from it, I am however gonna argue with people who just come out and say Im wrong because i dont agree with them. Scientifically proven or not.

anyway. nice argueing with you all.

Basically what you're saying here is "look lads, I can't prove sh*t! I believe in it and that's good enough for me".

If you're happy to have faith in something, that's great! Because while you're having faith in these guys who say they can talk to the dead, there is always going to be someone more than happy to exploit your belief and take your money from you in the process.

Good luck with that

Cavehill Red

As Douglas Adams once said, why can't people just admire the beauty of the garden without having to pretend there are fairies living at the bottom of it?

Package

MrStuffins wrote: »

Basically what you're saying here is "look lads, I can't prove sh*t! I believe in it and that's good enough for me".
)

well, yeah i suppose. nothing wrong with that in my books.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

As Douglas Adams once said, why can't people just admire the beauty of the garden without having to pretend there are fairies living at the bottom of it?

thats mad. I would have thought living in a magical world of fairies, and one where you could connect with loved ones who have passed was a nice idea. but well done for trying to beat it out of us.

:cool::(

Cavehill Red

Package wrote: »

thats mad. I would have thought living in a magical world of fairies, and one where you could connect with loved ones who have passed was a nice idea. but well done for trying to beat it out of us.

:cool::(

But you DON'T live in a magical world of fairies, and you can't connect with people who've died because they're dead.
It may or may not be a nice idea. But it's also a factually incorrect idea. It's a wrong idea.
So why pretend otherwise? Isn't the world and this life a miraculous enough thing without having to delude yourself that is comes with added fairytales?

Package

Cavehill Red wrote: »

So why pretend otherwise? Isn't the world and this life a miraculous enough thing without having to delude yourself that is comes with added fairytales?

do you not read the news? do you not watch the TV?

death, destruction, disease, war , famine, revolutions, murders, ect ect ect

not to mention people damning you for your believe system

id prefere to fairies if thats ok

Cavehill Red

Package wrote: »

do you not read the news? do you not watch the TV?

death, destruction, disease, war , famine, revolutions, murders, ect ect ect

not to mention people damning you for your believe system

id prefere to fairies if thats ok

So to follow your logic, because some bad things happen, it is better to pretend in good things that aren't actually real?
Can I ask you this: why do you believe that there is death, destruction or disease? They're horrible things, so why not just NOT believe them?
Is it because they are undeniably real and factual? Is it actually impossible to disbelieve them?
If so, why do you refuse to apply the same logic to the fact that the dead are gone and no one can communicate with them because they no longer exist?

MrStuffins

Package wrote: »

do you not read the news? do you not watch the TV?

death, destruction, disease, war , famine, revolutions, murders, ect ect ect

not to mention people damning you for your believe system

id prefere to fairies if thats ok

Yes, all of these things happen, yet we apparently live in a world where a God exists :rolleyes:

And give up with the "people damning you for your belief system" nonsense. If you are comfortable with your beliefs, you should be comfortable enough to stand up for them.

Not to mention the fact that you willingly entered into a discussion here about how you believe in medium when others don't! If you don't like your beliefs questioned, then don't enter said debates!

Package

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Is it because they are undeniably real and factual? Is it actually impossible to disbelieve them?

yes

Cavehill Red wrote: »

If so, why do you refuse to apply the same logic to the fact that the dead are gone and no one can communicate with them because they no longer exist?

because sometimes i dont need solid scientific proof to believe in things. simple

Package

MrStuffins wrote: »

And give up with the "people damning you for your belief system" nonsense. If you are comfortable with your beliefs, you should be comfortable enough to stand up for them.

people rip the piss out of me because i own a pink hot water bottle. doesnt mean im gonna go to bed cold does it?

KeithAFC

Stuffins, regarding your point about why do you have to pay? People do have to pay the rent, do have to eat etc.

A lot of good posts in my thread. My basic idea was why don't mediums take a test which can prove they have some sort of supernatural gift not know to science or basic psychology.

And then we will know who is geniune or not.