Why can't a medium PROVE the ability exists?

Package

i wont continue to argue any points on this, as the attitude of some people stinks in regards to other peoples beliefs..

why call people idiots because they believe in things.. If believers are idiots, and you are not believers, then our paths dont even need to cross.. and if fraudsters are praying on idiots,, why does it bother you so much. Just accept the fact that an idiot is easily parted with their money and get off your high horse and accept that you dont know everything. but just like me, you like a good argument.

MrStuffins wrote: »

Another thing here Package, you seem to think that Mediumship needs to be DISPROVEN in order for it to be deemed not to exsit.

This is wrong. The default position is that something does not exist unil it has been proven to exist. If one of the many many mediums who work today were to come along and prove it, then Hallelujah!!! it's proven. In our faces and such!

But until then, Mediumship is just mumbo-jumbo!

now THIS makes sense,, a well put arguements which i completly accept. totally unlike the "no, your wrong, your an idiot cause you rdont believe in what i believe in" stuff.

so i think your above statement sums up the whole thread, and i accept that. however, making fun of people and calling them names, does not put the skeptics in high acount by any standards. So until the time when i can prove, or if i go to eternal black and nothingness like you want to believe. then I wont continue..

I will however, try to answer any questions as honestly as i can.

Penn

Package wrote: »

I will however, try to answer any questions as honestly as i can.

Why do a lot of mediums have trouble hearing the spirit say their name (eg. "I can feel someone here.... I'm hearing a 'J' sound.... a James? John? Jack?), then when a client fills in the name and gives more information, they're able to hear the spirit very clearly (eg. "He wanted to tell you that.... etc)?

Package

Barrington wrote: »

Why do a lot of mediums have trouble hearing the spirit say their name (eg. "I can feel someone here.... I'm hearing a 'J' sound.... a James? John? Jack?), then when a client fills in the name and gives more information, they're able to hear the spirit very clearly (eg. "He wanted to tell you that.... etc)?

very good question....

hope this helps

if you think of a radio,,, say 98 fm, when you are flicking through an you at 99fm you can kinda hear the station but its muffled.. no we are on a different wavelenght than spirit so using a different analogy.......

if you imagine you are in the sitting room, and your brother is in the bedroom and he shouts into you , you can barely hear,, but someone with a louder voice you would hear better. so it all matters about how loud the spirit can shout. of coarse its not that easy, not like shouting,, it matters if the spirit can lower its energy to your wavelenght for long enough to get a whole name whilest the medium is raising his energy to meet the spirits energy.

A medium can "hear" and name in many way,, maybe the best way to explain is this..

say your standing on the side of the road and a car drives past at 100 miles per hour, and someone shouts out the window... you hear a kinda of

jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjackkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

so sometimes its difficult to hear, you hear the J bit, but it could be

jack
james
jenny ect

Other medium may see a letter J and maybe a letter will follow,, A

so they have to say "the initial J , or JA"

now the reason why its hard to get a name and then when the blacks are filled in is because a medium can get ten NO's in a row, but when he gets one yes, then its like a little door opens and lets through more information, . there is no real explanation for this, maybe its a personal thing,, as in "ok, ive got one right,, brilliant,, lets go" . More of a confidence thing i think.

i suppose you could liken it to playing snooker. you can miss ten shots in a row, but when ya get one,, more seems to follow.

Package

of coarse these are just my opinions. im well aware that You all dont believe,,, just in answering mode :cool:

Penn

I appreciate your answer. I'm not going to lie and say I'm a believer now, it was just something that always confused me.

I've been thinking about going to see a medium, with the view of just trying to experience it for myself. Do you know if mediums allow skeptics to get readings and if they would allow me to bring a dictophone to record it (not that I'd release the audio, but I'd like to write about the experience on my blog or tell friends. The audio and the identity of the psychic would never be revealed). I know you can't answer for all mediums, just want to get your opinion.

GodlessM

Package wrote: »

i wont continue to argue any points on this, as the attitude of some people stinks in regards to other peoples beliefs..

why call people idiots because they believe in things.. If believers are idiots, and you are not believers, then our paths dont even need to cross.. and if fraudsters are praying on idiots,, why does it bother you so much. Just accept the fact that an idiot is easily parted with their money and get off your high horse and accept that you dont know everything. but just like me, you like a good argument.

As a non-skeptic I'd like to point out to you regarding your first point that this goes both ways.

Also, you're response to people getting conned out of money by supposed mediums isn't very humane or professional and reflects poorly on your stance as an alleged medium. If I were to read this thread as an outsider looking for a medium I certainly wouldn't go near you for a reading with a ten foot pole.

Package

Barrington wrote: »

I appreciate your answer. I'm not going to lie and say I'm a believer now, it was just something that always confused me.

thats fine. as i said, im not tryin to convert people.

Barrington wrote: »

I've been thinking about going to see a medium, with the view of just trying to experience it for myself. Do you know if mediums allow skeptics to get readings and if they would allow me to bring a dictophone to record it (not that I'd release the audio, but I'd like to write about the experience on my blog or tell friends. The audio and the identity of the psychic would never be revealed). I know you can't answer for all mediums, just want to get your opinion.

i honestly cant see why any medium would not allow your bring a dictophone with you, although it may differ from medium to medium. Linda Green is doing readins tomorrow/today (Tuesday) and wednesday in Tallagh in Dublin, she would definatly be the one to go to. Ill finf out for you if she allows a Dictophone,, i cant see why not.

There is a dublin medium called declan flynn currently using whats knows as a Franks Box to record his sessions in which sometimes the spirits voice is projected onto tape. getting some good results from it too so ive heard.

Cavehill Red

Package wrote: »

i wont continue to argue any points on this, as the attitude of some people stinks in regards to other peoples beliefs..

Why should I have to respect nonsense, especially nonsense perpetrated by charlatans to defraud fools of their money, just because the gullible believe?

strobe

Hi Package. Are you a medium yourself or do you just have an interest in it?

Synalon Etuul

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Why should I have to respect nonsense, especially nonsense perpetrated by charlatans to defraud fools of their money, just because the gullible believe?

Just getting this quote a little air

Package

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Why should I have to respect nonsense, especially nonsense perpetrated by charlatans to defraud fools of their money, just because the gullible believe?

you dont HAVE to. So dont. Thats fine. But what you shouldnt be doing is putting people down for their own believes.

strobe wrote: »

Hi Package. Are you a medium yourself or do you just have an interest in it?

im only a practising medium, so i wouldnt have done readings for the general public

GodlessM wrote: »

you're response to people getting conned out of money by supposed mediums isn't very humane or professional and reflects poorly on your stance as an alleged medium. If I were to read this thread as an outsider looking for a medium I certainly wouldn't go near you for a reading with a ten foot pole.

If you have read the whole thread and the context i put this in is from the point of view of the skeptics. NOT me.

MrStuffins

Package wrote: »

im only a practising medium, so i wouldnt have done readings for the general public

Oh snap!! So you're a practicing medium? In what context are you using the word "practicing"? You're training?

I'd have thought you either CAN speak to the dead or you can't! Does this mean that you're learning Cold Reading?

Would you be willing to give me a reading and prove to me that this power exists? I would love to see if this ability is real!

strobe

I have an idea here, I want to throw out.

Basically I want to volunteer myself to receive readings from psychics and/or mediums on here. I would be willing to type up information before hand, in relation to say, 5 people whom I know that have died. General stuff like names, sex, physical appearance etc and then more specific things like how, where and when they died, things they said to me that I know they wouldn't have repeated to anyone and I have never repeated to anyone else, a specific event or situation we experienced together. That kind of thing. I will then forward the information on to Onyx (who I would trust not to leak) and a skeptic on here such as Dave! (who I would also be comfortable trusting not to leak it) if they are both willing and will also screen shot it with date and time shown. I will do this prior to any readings that are done. Then after the readings we can compare the results and see what kind of accuracy people hit with.

I think this would be a pretty interesting experiment to run and also pretty fun and if someone manages to score a 90%+ hit rate or something similar, in particular in relation to the specific information such as things the person said to me with no one else around, well I would find that to be a strong indicator that there was something to the medium stuff. We could also invite several people who don't claim to have any medium or psychic abilities to attempt a reading in order for them to act as a control group.

If Onyx and Dave! are willing to be a part of this are there any mediums or psychics, Package or anyone else, who would be interested in taking part in this?

Oryx

I have no problem with something like that, as long as it isnt used as a stick to beat well meaning volunteers. It would be interesting. You will almost certainly have trouble getting volunteers, though, as most people who do such things might see it as either a hostile challenge or unnecessary. Its been suggested before.

strobe

Oryx wrote: »

I have no problem with something like that, as long as it isnt used as a stick to beat well meaning volunteers. It would be interesting. You will almost certainly have trouble getting volunteers, though, as most people who do such things might see it as either a hostile challenge or unnecessary. Its been suggested before.

Well if people are worried about volunteering and others using the results to have a go at them should they not perform as well as they expect, I would have no problem with them volunteering anonymously and only identifying themselves if they wish to after the results are published. For the record it isn't meant as a hostile challenge, I am genuinely interested to see how it turns out, am going into it with an open mind and am not just looking to aggressively debunk or discredit anyone.

Package

MrStuffins wrote: »

Oh snap!! So you're a practicing medium? In what context are you using the word "practicing"? You're training?

I'd have thought you either CAN speak to the dead or you can't! Does this mean that you're learning Cold Reading?

Would you be willing to give me a reading and prove to me that this power exists? I would love to see if this ability is real!

slightly moronic.. Oh snap.. how cool are you,, can i be your friend like? ah go on,, i bet you get into all the good clubs n'all ???

oh so now im not a pro you want a reading? get a reading off an established medium?

MrStuffins wrote: »

Does this mean that you're learning Cold Reading?

Im sensing some hostility, i feel you were bullied in school becuase you didnt act the same way as the rest of the kids and they called you slow. hows that for cold reading?

strobe wrote: »

I would be willing to type up information before hand, in relation to say, 5 people whom I know that have died. General stuff like names, sex, physical appearance etc and then more specific things like how, where and when they died, things they said to me that I know they wouldn't have repeated to anyone and I have never repeated to anyone else, a specific event or situation we experienced together. That kind of thing. I will then forward the information on to Onyx (who I would trust not to leak) and a skeptic on here such as Dave! (who I would also be comfortable trusting not to leak it) if they are both willing and will also screen shot it with date and time shown. I will do this prior to any readings that are done. Then after the readings we can compare the results and see what kind of accuracy people hit with.

thats not a bad thought out experiment i have to say, problem is,, well, i wont go into a problem. what you COULD do , is relate that info to ONE person, write down everything about that one person, and bring a photo of the said person to a good medium who works with psychometry and they should be able to bring that person through. i wouldnt be good enough at the moement to confidently take this test though.

Major Lovechild

I am willing to help. I think this is a fine idea.

strobe

Package wrote: »

thats not a bad thought out experiment i have to say, problem is,, well, i wont go into a problem. what you COULD do , is relate that info to ONE person, write down everything about that one person, and bring a photo of the said person to a good medium who works with psychometry and they should be able to bring that person through. i wouldnt be good enough at the moement to confidently take this test though.

Well the five person suggestion isn't a deal breaker. If someone would be more comfortable if I focused on one person in particular I would be more than happy to do that. I just felt it would be fairer to have a selection of people they could contact rather than one specific person. I'm happy to have input from Oryx and the mods here and the mediums and psychics as well as to the exact details of the experiment.

PMOOB

I am waiting for the Newspaper headline "Psychic wins Lottery"

Oryx

Major Lovechild wrote: »

I am willing to help. I think this is a fine idea.

If strobe is the focus and subject of this, we cant have another, it would interfere. Unless you want to contribute a reading as a kind of control.

Strobe, I dunno about the five people thing. What if they got a good hit to someone you didnt think of putting on that list of five? Basically, the way its meant to work is that you are given specific, non general, identifying information of one person, and such that you would not confuse with anyone else you know. Hard specifics. Could you have a test that leaves it more general, or would you only be happy with your current idea?

Major Lovechild

I'm happy to help in any way I can. I will give a control reading if you wish.

Package

PMOOB wrote: »

I am waiting for the Newspaper headline "Psychic wins Lottery"

why? will you chuckle to yourself.?

strobe

Oryx wrote: »

Strobe, I dunno about the five people thing. What if they got a good hit to someone you didnt think of putting on that list of five? Basically, the way its meant to work is that you are given specific, non general, identifying information of one person, and such that you would not confuse with anyone else you know. Hard specifics. Could you have a test that leaves it more general, or would you only be happy with your current idea?

Yeah I guess I would be willing to do that although my reason in having specific people in mind was so I could write information down beforehand so the volunteers would know I was telling the truth when I said they were getting hits or not. I mean I can give my word of honour that I will be 100% honest, and I do absolutely, but would people be willing to accept me at my word that I will not claim a miss when they get a hit or will anyone else accept my word that I was not claiming hits for the medium when they were missing?

Can you think of some way around this problem?

I don't know a great deal about how the whole process is supposed to work from the mediums side of things so I am open to any suggestions.
Would something along the lines of the following be more suitable? The medium could identify the person (say they were to say I have your uncle Paul here {I don't have a deceased uncle Paul btw, just an example}) and receive the rest of the information but keep it to themselves. Then I could write out all the information I can think of for that person, forward it to third parties such as yourself and Dave! and then have the medium write out the information they received and then compare it?

KeithAFC

MrStuffins wrote: »

Oh snap!! So you're a practicing medium? In what context are you using the word "practicing"? You're training?

I'd have thought you either CAN speak to the dead or you can't! Does this mean that you're learning Cold Reading?

Would you be willing to give me a reading and prove to me that this power exists? I would love to see if this ability is real!

I think one of his earlier posts can of brought this point up about being able to tune yourself into that wavelength and being abel to get messages more clearly. Perhaps that is what he means by training. That is of course from a spiritual point of view.

Package

KeithAFC wrote: »

I think one of his earlier posts can of brought this point up about being able to tune yourself into that wavelength and being abel to get messages more clearly. Perhaps that is what he means by training. That is of course from a spiritual point of view.

i know.. god bless the clueless

MrStuffins wrote: »

Oh snap!! So you're a practicing medium? In what context are you using the word "practicing"? You're training?

I'd have thought you either CAN speak to the dead or you can't!

same could be said for anyting i suppose.


I'd have thought you either be a professional footballer or you can't!
I'd have thought you either be a boxer or you can't!
I'd have thought you either be an electronic engineer or you can't!
I'd have thought you either speak french or you can't!
I'd have thought you either play a musical instrument or you can't!


no need to practise at ANYTHING. life is great

MrStuffins

Package wrote: »

slightly moronic.. Oh snap.. how cool are you,, can i be your friend like? ah go on,, i bet you get into all the good clubs n'all ???

What the hell are you on about? I'm starting to think i'm not conversing with a balanced individual.

oh so now im not a pro you want a reading? get a reading off an established medium?

I had no idea you were any kind of medium. This is why I asked. if you actually read my posts instead of going off on a rant about how cool I am, you might actually be able to answer me properly.

Im sensing some hostility, i feel you were bullied in school becuase you didnt act the same way as the rest of the kids and they called you slow. hows that for cold reading?

Way off! If you're looking to do this as a career i wouldn't give up the day job!

Package wrote: »

same could be said for anyting i suppose.


I'd have thought you either be a professional footballer or you can't!
I'd have thought you either be a boxer or you can't!
I'd have thought you either be an electronic engineer or you can't!
I'd have thought you either speak french or you can't!
I'd have thought you either play a musical instrument or you can't!


no need to practise at ANYTHING. life is great

Nope, not at all! You see, footballing, boxing, languages.......... these are all things to be learned and need to be practiced.

However, speaking to the dead is not like this, it is a gift or a "6th sense".

As with all senses, either you can see or you can't, you can hear or you can't, you can smell or you can't.

No amount of training is gonna make Stevie Wonder see again!

There really is no point in speaking to you any more! You compare gravity to mediumship, learning a language to mediumship, you don't believe in the Moon Landings :rolleyes:

Oryx

strobe, the easiest way I can see to get around this is to use an intermediary, like you suggested. The participant connects to you and passes on the information on whoever they connect to, to me and say, Dave! The only way I can see it being workable is if we tell you something like the relationship we have been given (grandfather, friend, aunt, whatever) and ask you to give us information on that person so we can cross check it against the reading. We post the results in thread, and if its all accurate, great, if none of it is, then you see if perhaps the relationship was wrong but the rest of it fits someone else. That we just have to trust you on. As you said, the reader doesnt go public unless they want to. The intermediaries would have to abide by that rule.

MrStuffins

Oryx wrote: »

I have no problem with something like that, as long as it isnt used as a stick to beat well meaning volunteers. It would be interesting. You will almost certainly have trouble getting volunteers, though, as most people who do such things might see it as either a hostile challenge or unnecessary. Its been suggested before.

for the record, it was in another thread that it was suggested and I volunteered to take a reading. A very well meaning person decided to give me said reading.

The results were published in the thread. he was way off! And he had no problem admitting so.

strobe

Yeah that seems reasonable enough Oryx. Maybe a sticky could be posted in the psychics and mediums section (or wherever is most suitable) asking for volunteers? If there is no interest after whatever amount of time you think is reasonable we can just delete it and forget about the idea.

So just to lay things out so I understand the process you are suggesting:

:The medium(s) (who will remain anonymous unless they wish to be identified) will contact someone and proceed to give the details they receive about/from this person to the third parties. I will not be given this information.

:The identity of the person contacted will be given to me.

:I write out a lot of information and details I can think of about the person.

:We compare the results to see if there are many matches.

:Afterwards if there are details the medium included which I fail to mention in my info I will promise to point these out if they are accurate and I just have just omitted them because I didn't think to include them.
=========================================================

In terms of me not being given any information but the identity of the person I think we can be flexible with that rule. For instance if the medium says the person contacted described something that happened on my 12th birthday involving a toy helicopter (completely random example). Then it would make sense for the third parties to ask me to include anything of note I can remember happening on a birthday involving the person. As I will obviously not be able to document every experience I had with a person. If that makes sense.

Oryx

Specifics would be easy enough to handle, I can ask you to list things like height, age, cause of death, if they are mentioned in the reading. The more random stuff we may only discover once it is put on the main thread, but like you say, we can ask you to put down anything you think may be relevant.

The main thing I would like is that it doesnt scare off people who would want to try this out, to see if theres anything in it, without putting their name up there! It could be really good if we get a few people contributing.