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road gritting salting/who's responsible?

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    #32
    ciaran67
    Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭ciaran67


    Day 2 of the pathways around Crossmolina being completely iced over. Grit them when theres compact snow but ignore them when they're covered in invisible ice. :confused:

    They put the xmas lights up though!


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    #33
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Disaster today in my town. Iced into the estate. Cars pulled into the side of the road.

    God forbid there is a fire or accident because no ambulences or firetrucks can get around.

    According to neighbors COCO has run out of salt and grit. **** OFF CO CO.


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    #34
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    Think they had grit but the NRA will only let them grit for Monday to Friday on regional routs I am told, which was f*** all good to me on the way home this morning as my car glided on a sheet of glass into bushes.


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    #35
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Well they can shove it because that is so dangerous. God forbid there is a fire or someone needs an ambulence.

    Im withholding a months road tax for this.


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    #36
    cheesey1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭cheesey1


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    Disaster today in my town. Iced into the estate.

    God forbid there is a fire or accident because no ambulences or firetrucks can get around.

    According to neighbors COCO has run out of salt and grit. **** OFF CO CO.


    My estate is like an ice rink as well, I spent hours putting down gritting and clearing away the ice/snow from my drive way and as much as the path in front of my house as possible, but the rest of the estate is a disaster. At least I can see my paving again! Cleared outside where I work this morning and also in front of the house beside work as an elder lady lives there, at least she can now walk across the street to the shop.

    Like they said on the news last night if everyone in an estate did a bit it might help clear it.

    Met two Co.Co. workers who asked me did I want to come work with them!! Should have asked them was it true they are running out of salt/grit.


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    #37
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    I phoned my local COCO to complain about this particular incline which leads to a creche and a nursing home, babies and the elderly. It is a pure ICE RINK adn they told me they wont grit it and there are chips there for people to grit the road if they want but if something happens after private citizens grit the road those people will be held responsible for any accidents. WTF?


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    #38
    cheesey1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭cheesey1


    I had read somewhere that people wouldn't be held responsible if they gritted the roads - the Co.Co don't always have the right answers, just like to give the easiest one.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/snow-clearers-cant-be-sued-2444225.html


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    #39
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Just in from scraping sheet ice off the footpath outside our house and spreading some grit I bought down the co-op. Hard work, but hey: I'd hate to see someone break a hip outside my window.


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    #40
    hsi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭hsi


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Just in from scraping sheet ice off the footpath outside our house and spreading some grit I bought down the co-op. Hard work, but hey: I'd hate to see someone break a hip outside my window.

    If someone breaks their hip outside your window (on your property) then they can claim on your insurance


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    #41
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    hsi wrote: »
    If someone breaks their hip outside your window (on your property) then they can claim on your insurance

    They can't, its not his property. If its a public path it is not his property.


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    #42
    hsi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭hsi


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    They can't, its not his property. If its a public path it is not his property.

    To be honest I don't know the whole legal thing here in Ireland. But when I lived in other countries like the US and Germany the path infront of our house while not ours was our responsibility to keep clear. Main reason being we would be fined. Even here in Ireland I keep the path (which is not mine) clear with salt. More so for my own safety.

    I hear the Irish complain about the Nanny state, but then I hear others want everything given on a plate. free water, no property tax..


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    #43
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    It's a public footpath. I'm aware that it would be my legal responsibility to keep it clear in other countries; that's an idea with merit.

    The government clarified last week that you can't be sued for a fall that happens after you clear a footpath, unless you did something to create an unsafe situation. I would imagine that would include me breaking a paving slab and leaving it sticking up for people to trip on, for example. We scraped and swept ice off and spread a thin layer of grit. I don't think I need to worry about the lawyers just yet.


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    #44
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    ITs amazing that there was a law that encourages passivity, that there is no concept of negligence here. I just cant believe it.


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    #45
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    ITs amazing that there was a law that encourages passivity, that there is no concept of negligence here. I just cant believe it.
    There was no such law. There is the tort of negligence, which states that if you do something careless that causes injury to someone, then you are liable.

    There has been a steadily growing sense of hysteria around health & safety issues for several years, coupled with a growing lack of personal responsibility, which meant there was a tendency to err on the side of caution. This led to the belief that if you cleared your footpath and someone slipped on it anyway, you could be sued.

    Now, unless you took what was a non-slippery path and managed to make it slippery by attempting to clear it, that was actually never an issue. What the government has done is clarified that. But the fact remains that if you damage the path in the course of clearing it, and the damage causes injury to someone, you're liable.

    Note that all the above is my amateur understanding of the law. I'm not a lawyer.


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    #46
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    There was no such law. There is the tort of negligence, which states that if you do something careless that causes injury to someone, then you are liable.

    There has been a steadily growing sense of hysteria around health & safety issues for several years, coupled with a growing lack of personal responsibility, which meant there was a tendency to err on the side of caution. This led to the belief that if you cleared your footpath and someone slipped on it anyway, you could be sued.

    Now, unless you took what was a non-slippery path and managed to make it slippery by attempting to clear it, that was actually never an issue. What the government has done is clarified that. But the fact remains that if you damage the path in the course of clearing it, and the damage causes injury to someone, you're liable.

    Note that all the above is my amateur understanding of the law. I'm not a lawyer.


    To be honest its not a fear of litigation, its abject laziness and the feeling in this country now that somebody else should be doing whatever needs to be done.


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    #47
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    To be honest its not a fear of litigation, its abject laziness and the feeling in this country now that somebody else should be doing whatever needs to be done.
    It's a combination. The day after the government clarified the H&S issue, I saw people throughout Galway and Mayo clearing paths and gritting side roads. At the same time, I listened to Derek Mooney on the radio asking a representative of Galway City Council why people should have to grit their own footpaths, and couldn't GCC grit the thousand-odd kilometres of pavement themselves.


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    #48
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    It's a combination. The day after the government clarified the H&S issue, I saw people throughout Galway and Mayo clearing paths and gritting side roads. At the same time, I listened to Derek Mooney on the radio asking a representative of Galway City Council why people should have to grit their own footpaths, and couldn't GCC grit the thousand-odd kilometres of pavement themselves.


    That says so much about Mooney


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    #49
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    HarryPotter41 wrote: »
    That says so much about Mooney
    Well, yeah. Particularly since the man from the council had just been explaining how they had met with the residents associations and agreed to provide them with grit, and so on.

    Sure, it would be nice if the council could have cleaned and gritted my footpath yesterday. But it wasn't going to happen, so I did it myself.


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    #50
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Well, yeah. Particularly since the man from the council had just been explaining how they had met with the residents associations and agreed to provide them with grit, and so on.

    Sure, it would be nice if the council could have cleaned and gritted my footpath yesterday. But it wasn't going to happen, so I did it myself.


    In a perfect world it would never snow, but hey. And in fairness to the council they do try, gritter went off the road Sunday morning in Straide and it had to turn back at the stretch of road I slid off on Sunday morning because it was too bad. People forget that they are taking their lives in their hands to make the roads safe for us to drive on.


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