The Status Of Irish.

mike65

So you do Irish until you turn 18 and then stop? **** it, if you still at secondary school when you are 18 you might as well carry on!

Iwasfrozen

mike65 wrote: »

So you do Irish until you turn 18 and then stop? **** it, if you still at secondary school when you are 18 you might as well carry on!

My point is that adults shouldn't be forced to do a subject they don't want and shouldn't be put in that position.

deise go deo

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Well, guess this is relevant now...

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1221/irish_language.html

The Taoiseach has said that he is very hopeful that there is a future for the Irish language.

Brian Cowen was speaking at the launch of the Government's 20-year strategy for the language.

He also said he hoped the language will be stronger upon the completion of the scheme.

Mr Cowen said that a 'more modern and strategic approach to the language promotion and maintenance' was needed.

Minister for the Gaeltacht Pat Carey said the initial funding for the strategy would come out of existing funds and that €1.5m had already been set aside for next year.

Fine Gael Gaeltacht Spokesperson Frank Feighan said his party fully supported the strategy.

It includes a commitment that Irish remain an obligatory subject up to Leaving Certificate level.

Previously the Fine Gael position was that Irish should only be obligatory up to Junior Certificate level.

Wonder if he spoke any Irish when making the announcement...

I heard the Q&A on RnaG, what I heard was all as Gaeilge. I heard Darren ask his question on the gealscoileanna too.:)
Something to note is that FG have signed up to this plan also. Interesting in that it includes the recommendation that Irish remain compulsory.
I heard on the news a Member of FG saying they were going to accept its recommendations, this directly after the recommendation to keep Irish compulsory was mentioned to him.

It seams to me that FG are undecided on weather or not to keep their optional stance on Irish.
Dose anyone know when they will be announcing their new education policy? We are getting closer to the election.

cyclopath2001

deise go deo wrote: »

It seams to me that FG are undecided on weather or not to keep their optional stance on Irish.
Dose anyone know when they will be announcing their new education policy? We are getting closer to the election.

If FG don't decide to do as CnaG wishes, who will their members vote for?

Fianna Fail?

Iwasfrozen

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

If FG don't decide to do as CnaG wishes, who will their members vote for?

Fianna Fail?

SF.

Lord TSC

It seams to me that FG are undecided on weather or not to keep their optional stance on Irish.

See, here's the thing. I really believe that those who believe the subject should remain compulsory are going to shout the loudest, while the majority remain apthetic to the entire situation and focus on far more important matters. In the long run, any political party would probably alienate more people by advocating a choice than they would just leaving the system as it is. Once you've got the ability to vote, Irish no longer plays any role in your life (for the majority) and thus it doesn't become an important factor in terms of choosing who you vote for. Meanwhile, the likes of CnaG will get snarky if it does go.

So they will always choose to follow the whims of the vocal minority rather than the majority who couldn't care less one way or the other...

cyclopath2001

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

SF.

That would be crazy, FG and SF are not at all alike. How could anyone swing from one to the other.

It's an empty threat, the CnaG mob are either SF or FF voters. FG is not going to get any extra votes by pandering to the Irish lobby.

RandomName2

Oasis_Dublin wrote: »

"Is main aim is to reinstate the Irish language as the common tongue of Ireland (sic)" - Common tongue, not exclusive language of the Irish nation.

What's the current common tongue of Ireland?

English.

So its aim is to supplant English as the common tongue of Ireland.

Logical gap filled.

RandomName2

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Most people do their leaving cert as adults. So yeah, it matters.

Yeah! Most people who sit a single subject in the LC will sit it in Irish.

Know an Art teacher, years ago, who was refused permission to teach art until he had a LC qualification in Irish, etc.

RandomName2

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

See, here's the thing. I really believe that those who believe the subject should remain compulsory are going to shout the loudest, while the majority remain apthetic to the entire situation and focus on far more important matters. In the long run, any political party would probably alienate more people by advocating a choice than they would just leaving the system as it is. Once you've got the ability to vote, Irish no longer plays any role in your life (for the majority) and thus it doesn't become an important factor in terms of choosing who you vote for. Meanwhile, the likes of CnaG will get snarky if it does go.

So they will always choose to follow the whims of the vocal minority rather than the majority who couldn't care less one way or the other...

Good point! I personally don't terribly care any more (apart from the lean that it has on me as a tax-payer, and also the manner in which I can see that Ireland could be focusing on more useful spheres of education for our future).

Besides which, when you are talking about sacred cows you have to take any noises concerning reform with a pinch of salt.

Iwasfrozen

RandomName2 wrote: »

Yeah! Most people who sit a single subject in the LC will sit it in Irish.

Know an Art teacher, years ago, who was refused permission to teach art until he had a LC qualification in Irish, etc.

Wow, that really highlights how childish and pathetic the Irish language body can be.

cyclopath2001

RandomName2 wrote: »

Know an Art teacher, years ago, who was refused permission to teach art until he had a LC qualification in Irish, etc.

The plan reserves 20% of teaching jobs for Irish speakers and includes measures that allow the Irish Language Enforcer to designate specific public service jobs as requiring Irish qualifucations. Parents will be put under pressure to speak Irish to their children and, ominously, both the Army and Gardai will be targetted to become Irish speaking. The OLA is to be enforced in full.

That is, assuming FF are reelected.

astrofool

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

The plan reserves 20% of teaching jobs for Irish speakers and includes measures that allow the Irish Language Enforcer to designate specific public service jobs as requiring Irish qualifucations. Parents will be put under pressure to speak Irish to their children and, ominously, both the Army and Gardai will be targetted to become Irish speaking. The OLA is to be enforced in full.

That is, assuming FF are reelected.

LOL, anything for a few votes.

cyclopath2001

astrofool wrote: »

LOL, anything for a few votes.

It gets even better...prospective parents are to be given instruction on the benefits of bilingualism!

deise go deo

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

That is, assuming FF are reelected.

You do realize that the 20 year plan has cross party support? Its not just a FF thing.

cyclopath2001

deise go deo wrote: »

You do realize that the 20 year plan has cross party support? Its not just a FF thing.

You do realise that, other than the money set aside for instructing prospective parents in bilingualism, the plan has no budget or costings and the targets have been plucked from thin air?

The country is broke, senseless election gimmicks like this will be quietly shelved once we start figuring out how pay our creditors.

Like when the Catholic Church used to have a special status in the constitution, the Irish Language Lobby is feared by all political parties. So, yes, they will 'support' Irish.

DJP

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

You do realise that, other than the money set aside for instructing prospective parents in bilingualism, the plan has no budget or costings and the targets have been plucked from thin air?

The country is broke, senseless election gimmicks like this will be quietly shelved once we start figuring out how pay our creditors.

Like when the Catholic Church used to have a special status in the constitution, the Irish Language Lobby is feared by all political parties. So, yes, they will 'support' Irish.

Do you think that Enda Kenny and Eamon Gilmore won't do a good job? And do you think they fear the Irish language organisations when both of them are in favour of making the subject optional for the Leaving Cert when all of the Irish language organisations disagree?

nice_guy80

the whole thing is a joke

the main way to get people speaking is to have services through Irish only - so provide creches through Irish
schools through Irish

cafes with service in Irish
a proper Irish tv station for kids to watch
a proper Irish radio station

but I doubt if any of that will be done

Iwasfrozen

nice_guy80 wrote: »

the whole thing is a joke

the main way to get people speaking is to have services through Irish only - so provide creches through Irish
schools through Irish

cafes with service in Irish
a proper Irish tv station for kids to watch
a proper Irish radio station

but I doubt if any of that will be done

The only way to do that would be for the government to take control of creches and cafes etc. and seeing as we don't live in the Soviet Union then you're right, it won't happen.

Lord TSC

but I doubt if any of that will be done

Which leads to the question...what would be the point?

I mean, regardless of my stance on the compulsion debate, I can understand the logic behind some of the points. But I cannot see the benefits which would come by making the entire country Irish speaking. Do we not get on perfectly well in our daily lifes by ordering through English? Can we not order our food through English? Do our kids not watch (primarily) English and American shows anyway?

I can see some of the supposed benifits behind forcing kids to learn Irish through education but I, for the life of me, cannot see how we could benefit any more from speaking Irish on a day to day basis. If anything, going down that route would only serve to isolate us

ilovesleep

I was born and raised into an irish speaking area and i cannot for the life of me speak it.

cyclopath2001

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Which leads to the question...what would be the point?

1. It will undo all the terrible wrongs done to Ireland.
2. Playing PS3 as Gaeilge is better.
3. It will make us Bilingual. This means being able to speak not just Irish and English but all the major languages of the world.
4. It will solve our unenployment problem as we can all get jobs speaking Irish to each other.
5. Speaking Irish makes you a happier nicer person.
6. It will affirm our sense of 'not-Englishness'.

Lord TSC

Well, that's me shut up then. I'll go back to my cave then :P

DJP

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Which leads to the question...what would be the point?

Because a lot of us like Irish. I should say, to qualify that for you, a lot of us like Irish enough for millions of euro to spent on it every year if need be promoting it. Like it or lump it that is the situation.

RockMan94

Oh please it sounds like something from the american indians and its dated lets just accept we do not like the irish language and should not force people to like it most especially children It will never kick of here

RockMan94

Well lets hope not!
The catholic church has ruined this country, it has spread guilty poison(not mentioning other things,,,,) same as our FF goverment It is time set yourself free ,
Vote Mary Lou Mc Donald for taoiseach, Most important reasons= She is Irish and Speaks properly.
If you vote FG you will get exactly the same as FF. TIME FOR RADICAL CHANGE IN IRELAND

Iwasfrozen

RockMan94 wrote: »

Well lets hope not!
The catholic church has ruined this country, it has spread guilty poison(not mentioning other things,,,,) same as our FF goverment It is time set yourself free ,
Vote Mary Lou Mc Donald for taoiseach, Most important reasons= She is Irish and Speaks properly.
If you vote FG you will get exactly the same as FF. TIME FOR RADICAL CHANGE IN IRELAND

lol.

Lord TSC

Darren J. Prior wrote: »

Because a lot of us like Irish. I should say, to qualify that for you, a lot of us like Irish enough for millions of euro to spent on it every year if need be promoting it. Like it or lump it that is the situation.

I accept a lot of people like it. However, a lot don't. And even more importantly, the vast majority of people couldn't care less about the language.

And since when is "I like it" a viable arguement for investing millions into something? I happen to like computer games and I happen to know that there's a lot of people like them as well. However, I can't justify the government investing millions upon millions into something which I feel is so "likeable" and which I think should be promoted. I don't expcet the government to start setting up grant schemes to get computer games advertised on television or set up computer-game based TV channels. If you like something, then you're more than welcome to spend your time and your money furthering it. But I don't see how liking something can lead to a belief that everyone should accept it as compulsory....

TIME FOR RADICAL CHANGE IN IRELAND

No. No it is not. Just because one group of people messed something up badly, that does not mean we need "radical change." We need controlled and sensible change. We need responsible change. We need logical change. Radicalness would be one of the worst things that could happen to a country that is on such shakey ground for the moment. Regardless, this is not a Sinn Fein debate and I'd kindly ask you to not try and turn it into one.

deise go deo

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I accept a lot of people like it. However, a lot don't. And even more importantly, the vast majority of people couldn't care less about the language.

And since when is "I like it" a viable arguement for investing millions into something? I happen to like computer games and I happen to know that there's a lot of people like them as well. However, I can't justify the government investing millions upon millions into something which I feel is so "likeable" and which I think should be promoted. I don't expcet the government to start setting up grant schemes to get computer games advertised on television or set up computer-game based TV channels. If you like something, then you're more than welcome to spend your time and your money furthering it. But I don't see how liking something can lead to a belief that everyone should accept it as compulsory....

The state supporting Irish, and it being compulsory are two very different things, The majority of people in this country want the Irish language to be supported by the state, some of them may not agree with it being a compulsory subject in school, but that dosent mean that they dont want the state to support it. The only justification for the state spending money on the Irish language, and the only justification needed for it, is that it is clearly the will of the majority that it be supported.
Some people here seam to have convinced themselves that the state spending money on the Irish language is some kind of con that is foisted on the state by a minority who are only in it for the money, that is simply a delusion.

No. No it is not. Just because one group of people messed something up badly, that does not mean we need "radical change." We need controlled and sensible change. We need responsible change. We need logical change. Radicalness would be one of the worst things that could happen to a country that is on such shakey ground for the moment. Regardless, this is not a Sinn Fein debate and I'd kindly ask you to not try and turn it into one.

Indeed, this thread is about the Irish language, not about SF, FF or the Church. Its amazing how some people just dont realize this.:rolleyes:

Dannyboy83

deise go deo wrote: »

The only justification for the state spending money on the Irish language, and the only justification needed for it, is that it is clearly the will of the majority that it be supported.

What, like Cervical Cancer vaccines?

Some people here seam to have convinced themselves that the state spending money on the Irish language is some kind of con that is foisted on the state by a minority who are only in it for the money, that is simply a delusion.

Why have people continued to play GAA or hurling for 90 odd years?
For the lucrative contracts?