'The Euro Game Is Up! Just who the hell do you think you are?' - Nigel Farage MEP

Brown Bomber

The CT is the end of democracy in the EU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fyq7WRr_GPg

senordingdong

For those of us watching at work....what did he say?

Brown Bomber

senordingdong wrote: »

For those of us watching at work....what did he say?

I'm one of those supposed to be in work. 2 hours ago so I can't oblige you right now.

Vourney

Brown Bomber wrote: »

The CT is the end of democracy in the EU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fyq7WRr_GPg

This is well spoken. He has said what is happening, they do want to destroy the nation state and take away national identity. You will all end up being like the US, with no Irish identity, eating at McDonalds, talking endlessly about money and sex, talking about how much your mortgage is, because there is something missing from your community and nation. They want to take away Irishness, Englishness, Scottishness. It's already started, Irish young people today immitate Americans ad naseum because they are losing their own identity and trying to replace it with something, like Immitating the shallow Sex in the City robots. That's ridiculous, The US has no culture to immitate, it's all a mirage, there's nothing real behind it. It's true, in the US all they talk about is money, sex, football, racism, and fixing up their houses, that's US culture, it's hollow. That's what happens when you dismantle national identities. It's a legimate social need.

RGDATA!

Vourney wrote: »

The US has no culture to immitate, it's all a mirage, there's nothing real behind it.

the US has tons of culture worth immitating, but i hear where you're coming from. US is not all fat people on Jerry Springer though.

humanji

Vourney wrote: »

This is well spoken. He has said what is happening, they do want to destroy the nation state and take away national identity. You will all end up being like the US, with no Irish identity, eating at McDonalds, talking endlessly about money and sex, talking about how much your mortgage is, because there is something missing from your community and nation. They want to take away Irishness, Englishness, Scottishness. It's already started, Irish young people today immitate Americans ad naseum because they are losing their own identity and trying to replace it with something, like Immitating the shallow Sex in the City robots. That's ridiculous, The US has no culture to immitate, it's all a mirage, there's nothing real behind it. It's true, in the US all they talk about is money, sex, football, racism, and fixing up their houses, that's US culture, it's hollow. That's what happens when you dismantle national identities. It's a legimate social need.

So basically, you want to enforce a national identity at the cost of free will. Can't say I'm 100% with you there. I'd rather be able to choose how I live than be forced to listen to some diddly-eye music while cutting turf.

But then again, maybe you're right. Take a look around the US and you'll see no independent identities at all. You'll see no Chinatowns, no Little Italy's, no large amounts of ethic groups that have their own day of celebration. There's only one type of food, one type of sport, and everyone watches Sex And The City.

Vourney

RGDATA! wrote: »

the US has tons of culture worth immitating, but i hear where you're coming from. US is not all fat people on Jerry Springer though.

Like what?

And please don't tell me I idealize Ireland, because if anything, the opposite is true.

King Mob

Vourney wrote: »

Like what?

And please don't tell me I idealize Ireland, because if anything, the opposite is true.

Mardi Gras?
The Jazz scene?
Rodeos?
Underground Hip Hop?
Country Music?

And these are just off the top of my head.

Can you please explain which culture has "something behind it"?

Yitzhak Rabin

Vourney wrote: »

Like what?

And please don't tell me I idealize Ireland, because if anything, the opposite is true.

Their generally positive attitude,
Their industrious nature, and lack of an entitlement culture,
Their protection of freedom of speech,
Some of the amazing things they have invented or popularised like; The internet, The lightbulb, The automobile, the steamboat... the list is huge...
How about some of their authors; Steinbeck, Hemingway, Twain, Poe...

There are lots of things wrong with America, but there is a hell of a lot to admire as well.

RGDATA!

Vourney wrote: »

Like what?

And please don't tell me I idealize Ireland, because if anything, the opposite is true.

tons of music - jazz, blues, hip hop to name a few are uniquely american genres.

film and television. yes, hollywood and the us networks pump out tonnes of schlock, but some of the best cinema and tv comes out of there too, plenty of highly worthwhile stuff.

literature.

sorry, turbo posting here but if you can't see that plenty of worthwhile stuff comes out of the US then you're blinkered. which is what i suspected based on your original comment

Vourney

RGDATA! wrote: »

tons of music - jazz, blues, hip hop to name a few are uniquely american genres.

film and television. yes, hollywood and the us networks pump out tonnes of schlock, but some of the best cinema and tv comes out of there too, plenty of highly worthwhile stuff.

literature.

sorry, turbo posting here but if you can't see that plenty of worthwhile stuff comes out of the US then you're blinkered. which is what i suspected based on your original comment

Do you live in the US?

I have an Honours BA in Literature. Overall, I'm not impressed with American Literature, although I do believe there are some bright spots.

espinolman

What is happening is caused by nuclear fallout from nuclear weapon tests in the 50s and 60s , its the reason the ice caps are melting and the cause of the economic collapse in Ireland .

humanji

What? How does that cause economic instability?

espinolman

Certain people in power know what is really going on , so they are pulling out of the country , so they take all the money for themselves so they can get out , thats what the celtic tiger was about , the poor people in Ireland will be left .
Ireland will sink as the melting ice comes down from the arctic , they know this , so they are pulling out of the country .

Stimpyone

espinolman wrote: »

Certain people in power know what is really going on , so they are pulling out of the country , so they take all the money for themselves so they can get out , thats what the celtic tiger was about , the poor people in Ireland will be left .
Ireland will sink as the melting ice comes down from the arctic , they know this , so they are pulling out of the country .

Eh?..

How far are you expecting the seas to rise? The link to the attached map shows how we would be affected with up to a 14 meter sea rise.

http://flood.firetree.net/

phill106

espinolman wrote: »

Certain people in power know what is really going on , so they are pulling out of the country , so they take all the money for themselves so they can get out , thats what the celtic tiger was about , the poor people in Ireland will be left .
Ireland will sink as the melting ice comes down from the arctic , they know this , so they are pulling out of the country .

If the ice caps melt, wouldn't the water level actually go down, as ice displaces more space then water?

RGDATA!

Vourney wrote: »

Do you live in the US?

I have an Honours BA in Literature. Overall, I'm not impressed with American Literature, although I do believe there are some bright spots.

I did live in the US for almost a decade, yes. I don't any more. I'm very critical of many aspects of American society too for the record, but I would never argue that their culture is worthless.

Your Honours BA in Lit means you have a qualified opinion, but it's still just an opinion, and I'm sure it would be as easy to find someone with an Honors BA in Lit who loves American writers like Twain, Fitzgerald, Hemingway, Salinger, Carver etc. etc

They have an obvious literary tradition and culture. How you rate it compared to that of other countries is moot, regardless of your academic qualifications.

kiad

phill106 wrote: »

If the ice caps melt, wouldn't the water level actually go down, as ice displaces more space then water?

No, because most of the ice is ABOVE the water level (so not actually in the water)



This melting would create a rise in sea level

Vourney

RGDATA! wrote: »

I did live in the US for almost a decade, yes. I don't any more. I'm very critical of many aspects of American society too for the record, but I would never argue that their culture is worthless.

Your Honours BA in Lit means you have a qualified opinion, but it's still just an opinion, and I'm sure it would be as easy to find someone with an Honors BA in Lit who loves American writers like Twain, Fitzgerald, Hemingway, Salinger, Carver etc. etc

They have an obvious literary tradition and culture. How you rate it compared to that of other countries is moot, regardless of your academic qualifications.

Well you and I will just have to agree to differ on these points. I believe the culture of America is deteriorating. I haven't found too many American authors I care for in the current era.

And to the one who said how friendly America is, not always. Phoebe Prince didn't find it that friendly.
And the whole cowboy, westerns, rodeo, how the west was won, Clint Eastwood, etc. etc. thing -- I find that whole thing cartoonish, violent, and childish. The fact that there are still grown men acting out the cowboy fantasy through Rodeo just seems very cartoonish to me.

But that is not the point of this thread.

My point was about comparing the losses Ireland may experience as it goes under the EU flag, comparing that to being part of the US. Rather than staying small and local, and governing and having autonomy at the local level, that includes perserving one's cultural identity, going under an authority that a) covers an enormous geographical area, and covers multitudes of different cultures and nations and can't really pay too much attention to the various cultural differances and still govern effectively, and b) is basically a foreign body governing from the outside.

Maybe the comparison is a messy one and doesn't really work.

If anyone would care to get back to the point of this thread, I believe it's about the Eurosceptic movement. And the statements Mr. Farage makes in the video, such as 'it would have been better for Ireland if they had never adopted the Euro in the first place.' (I paraphrase there.)

King Mob

Vourney wrote: »

And the whole cowboy, westerns, rodeo, how the west was won, Clint Eastwood, etc. etc. thing -- I find that whole thing cartoonish, violent, and childish. The fact that there are still grown men acting out the cowboy fantasy through Rodeo just seems very cartoonish to me.

And luckily most people realise that opinion does not equal fact, and simply because you don't get, understand or enjoy something doesn't mean it's "empty" or some how not culture.

But hey keep making generalisations and ignorant statements it's sure to win many people over to your points

humanji

kiad wrote: »

No, because most of the ice is ABOVE the water level (so not actually in the water)



This melting would create a rise in sea level

Isn't it something like only a third of the ice is above the water?

MonkieSocks

How Much of an Iceberg Lurks under Water?

Icebergs are floating masses of ice common in the Arctic and Antarctic regions.

As a glacier moves toward the ocean, portions of it break off to form icebergs.

Icebergs float because they are made of ice and snow, which are less dense than water.

The surface of an iceberg consists mostly of snow, which is not very compact.

So about how much of an iceberg is above water and how much is submerged?

You can perform the following experiment to find out.

You will need:

• plastic bag
• strong rubber band
• aquarium or large bowl
• water
• freezer
• ruler

Here's what you do:

1. Partly fill plastic bag with water. Close top off tightly with a rubber band.
2. Place bag in freezer upright overnight.
3. After water in bag is frozen solid, remove chunk of ice and measure its height.
4. Float it in aquarium (without the fish) or bowl filled with water.
5. Place the ruler into the water and measure the portion of ice that is above and below the water level.



Do the math:
Height Above Water / Total Height = Percent of Ice above Water
Height Below Water / Total Height = Percent of Ice below Water
What's your result?

You should have arrived at approximately 1/8 (12.5 %) of the ice to be above water and 7/8 (87.5 %) of the ice to be below the surface.

Vourney

King Mob wrote: »

And luckily most people realise that opinion does not equal fact, and simply because you don't get, understand or enjoy something doesn't mean it's "empty" or some how not culture.

But hey keep making generalisations and ignorant statements it's sure to win many people over to your points

I was trying to get back to the point of the thread.

I'm not really trying to win anyone over, just stating my opinion, but it's still off topic. The comparison I made took this thread off topic. Just as much as the melting ice theory!

I would just point out that having lived in the US for most of my life, I'm not ignorant about the "western-cowboy-rodeo" culture. In fact, I know a lot about it. It just holds no appeal to me, in part because of the unnecessary violence of the whole westward expansion, and the chaos of it. I disagree with how the westward expansion was handled on a macro level. You certainly have the right to like rodeo. We all have our likes and dislikes.

marco_polo

Archimedes facepalm. If the ice is already floating then the total mass of the ocean and ice remains the same when the ice melts, hence no rise in sea level.

It is the ice on land, mainly Greenland and Antartica that would cause sea level rises.

Vourney

It appears no one wants to get back to the topic.

The Recliner

Thread has gone miles off topic

Not that there was much of a topic to begin with