'Babies on Airlines: Safety Seats Are Safer Than a Lap'

Tabnabs

SHOULD babies be buckled into a safety seat on airplanes instead of sitting in their parents’ laps?

It’s a question that has been bandied about for years. Now it is about to resurface in a forum on child passenger safety to be held Dec. 9 in Washington by the National Transportation Safety Board.

The independent federal agency, which investigates transportation accidents and promotes safety, has long pushed for a rule requiring that all passengers be properly restrained in a separate seat, including children under 2 years old. The latest recommendation was sent to the Federal Aviation Administration in August, citing various crashes over the years in which children who were seated in car seats were protected and others in which children seated in a parent’s lap were injured or killed.

No one disputes that children would be safer aboard passenger jets when strapped in a car seat instead of being held in a parent’s lap. “Every single thing on that airplane down to the coffee pots are required to be properly restrained except children under the age of 2,” said Patricia Friend, president of the Association of Flight Attendants. “It’s just physically impossible, no matter how much a parent loves that child, given deceleration forces of an aircraft in a crash to hold onto that child.”

The Federal Aviation Administration agrees with the safety board that a child is safer when belted into a child restraint system, or CRS, and states on its Web site that “keeping a child in a CRS or device during the flight is the smart and right thing to do.”

But the F.A.A. continues to turn down the child seat request. The rationale? It maintains that doing so would require families — now accustomed to children under 2 years old flying free if they sit in a parent’s lap — to pay for the extra seat. That cost, the F.A.A. surmises, would cause some families to revert to car travel, which is less safe. “Consequently,” states the agency in its latest response to the safety board, “entire families would be subject to far higher fatality rates, which would produce a net increase in overall transportation fatalities.”

Not surprisingly, safety seat advocates dismiss this argument as beside the point. Requiring every passenger to be appropriately belted in is “a simple matter of equal protection,” said Stephanie M. Tombrello, executive director of SafetyBeltSafe U.S.A., a nonprofit group that focuses on child passenger safety. Ms. Tombrello pointed out that pilots regularly instruct passengers to stay buckled in their seats when not up to use the restroom.

“We just don’t see it as an either/or situation,” said Ms. Friend of the Association of Flight Attendants.

Before airlines cut capacity so severely, parents could take a car seat onboard in the hope that there would be empty seats that they could use without having to pay extra. But now flights are packed so efficiently that empty seats have gone the way of free snacks and blankets. Not so long ago, many airlines — including domestic carriers — offered cheaper fares to children, but most of those deals were dropped as airlines became more sophisticated at pricing tickets and managing seat inventory.

Unless regulations change, parents must decide for themselves if they want to pay to give their children the same level of protection they have onboard. If they do, parents should be sure to measure the width of the car seat before taking it on the plane. If it’s wider than 16 inches it won’t fit into most airplane seats. And they should try to book a window seat. The car seat must be placed there so it won’t block the escape path in an emergency. The seat also must have the following government approval printed on it: “This restraint is certified for use in motor vehicles and aircraft.” Otherwise you may be asked to check it.

It’s also a good idea to print out the F.A.A.’s child safety brochure found on its Web site in case you get any push-back from the airlines, as Nancy Appelbaum, a history professor from Binghamton, N.Y., did when flying cross-country with her daughter, Imogen, who was 5 months old at the time. “By and large the trip out and back had gone quite well, precisely because we had paid for Imogen’s seat and she could sleep calmly in the car seat,” said Ms. Appelbaum. But on the last leg of the trip from Philadelphia to Binghamton, the flight attendant “balked,” she said, arguing that backward-facing car seats were not safe. After some back and forth the flight attendant finally relented on the condition that Ms. Appelbaum hold her daughter on her lap for takeoff and landing. Though it seemed “absurd,” said Ms. Appelbaum, “we complied.”

Lugging a car seat onboard is a feat in itself; just ask any parents who have had to heave one over their head to fit down the aisle. And using one may impede the seat in front of you from reclining, which can make for disgruntled neighbors.

But alternatives exist. CARES, short for Child Aviation Restraint System, is a harness-style belt and buckle system certified by the Federal Aviation Administration for children weighing between 22 and 44 pounds. The device, which costs about $75, can be secured around the back of an airline seat and is small enough to fit in a purse.

Some international carriers, including Virgin Atlantic and British Airways, provide infant seats onboard for babies and toddlers. Virgin’s Infant Child Chair is similar to a car seat and can be placed in the airplane seat facing forward or backward. British Airways’ infant seat, made by Britax, the car seat manufacturer, hooks onto the bulkhead or plane partition often found in the front of economy class and is designed to be used during the flight but not for takeoff and landing.

Passengers without children in tow say requiring each child to sit in a seat could improve the overall flying experience. Several readers who posted comments at nytimes.com/travel in response to an article by Douglas Quenqua on Nov. 14 about passengers pushing for child-free flights or family-only sections said children should be buckled in or not allowed to fly.

“Compared to kiddies sitting on the parent’s lap, this would provide more ‘real estate’ for parents to attend to a fussy child and minimize passengers getting kicked and elbowed by thrashing children and their parents,” posted one reader. “Consider the child’s viewpoint — wouldn’t you cry, too, if you were sitting next to strangers and wedged between mama’s belly and the seat in front in today’s crammed economy cabins? More space by eliminating the kiddie-on-the-lap situation would make a happier flight for all.”

A version of this article appeared in print on November 28, 2010, on page TR3 of the New York edition.

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We've never brought a car seat on a plane when travelling, has anyone here tried it?

CathyMoran

We have not done it as we have not gone away with our son yet and now I am pregnant so it is a non-issue but we were going to take him in our car seat - we would feel safer with him in that, also when we got to our destination we would not have to hire a car seat so win win really.

Moonbeam

I have never brought the seat flying because of the complications of buying her her own seat on the plane and no way they were putting my car seat in hold.
I would love if it was standard to bring the baby seat on the plane,last time we flew ryanair the baby flying tax was higher then my ticket!

CathyMoran

Aer Lingus seem fair enough: http://www.aerlingus.com/travelinformation/traveladvice/travellingwithchildren/

Moonbeam

They all charge the 20 euro but being Ryanair my ticket was cheaper;)
Next time we fly she is definitely getting her own seat!!

Kimono-Girl

when ever we have been flying we put our daughter on our laps, but now at 16 months she would have to have her own seat.

i would pay for the extra seat no problem, and would have no problem with bringing on her car seat with us,


when we flew with onur air they gave us a separate seat-belt for her that attached onto her dad's.

January

Moonbeam wrote: »

They all charge the 20 euro but being Ryanair my ticket was cheaper;)
Next time we fly she is definitely getting her own seat!!

She'll have to, she'll be over two soon!

I've never been on an airplane with the girls but I'm sure I seen someone on a flight from Manchester last year bringing the car seat on the flight, the baby looked pretty newborn and the car seat was clipped into the frame of the buggy but she brought the car seat aboard the flight, and it was ryanair.

Moonbeam

Our flight was completely booked out,it was overflowing with people.
The baby sling is great for flying.

AmcD

We just got back from Paris with our nine week old. We brought our buggy, adaptors and car seat (which clips onto it). They took both pieces off us at the boarding gate. There didn't seem to be the option of using the car seat on board the aircraft. I had to use the belt extension, which worked out fine from a comfort point of view. Safety is a different issue.
When I rang Aer Lingus to make the booking for the baby, I was told I couldn't bring the car seat into the cabin as it couldn't fit in the overhead locker- even though I would only have used it to put the baby in.
Just to note, we only got back our buggy in the baggage hall in Paris after everybody else had left with their baggage. Luckily we had the baby sling with us as well. When we returned to Dublin they gave us our buggy on the tarmac beside the plane.
The reason we brought our car seat, as well as the buggy, was that the car seat is a useful alternative to our usual rocker/bouncer for daytime use. It is also handy for restaurants as it takes up a lot less space than the buggy.

LegacyUser

the problem i have with having a baby on my knee is...
1. what if the cabin looses pressure? there are 3 overhead air masks but 4 people on that row?
2. what if the plane crashes into water? 3 life jackets but 4 people on the row. actually is there certain life jackets for young children/babies? iv never being offered 1 to put under my seat as a precaution!

CathyMoran

Did anyone who used a car seat pay for a separate seat?

Moonbeam

justwondering... wrote: »

the problem i have with having a baby on my knee is...
1. what if the cabin looses pressure? there are 3 overhead air masks but 4 people on that row?
2. what if the plane crashes into water? 3 life jackets but 4 people on the row. actually is there certain life jackets for young children/babies? iv never being offered 1 to put under my seat as a precaution!

They have extra oxygen masks in some areas for children thus why they do not allow you to carry 2 babies on your lap,for babies they have a special type of life jacket but not sure where they are kept.

newmammy2011

Myself and my partner will be travveling by airplane with 2 infants in the summer.
We initially booked our own 2 seats with the intention of the babies being on our laps, but I was thinking the last few day that it would be handy to book another seat to have a bit of space.
I went back into the travel agents last night but they said i could not do this. Is this correct or was I misinformed? If this is correct, how can someone book a seat in an infants name to use with a car seat?

Tabnabs

Moonbeam wrote: »

They have extra oxygen masks in some areas for children thus why they do not allow you to carry 2 babies on your lap,for babies they have a special type of life jacket but not sure where they are kept.

We flew with Norwegian.no and were handed (and demonstrated) a special lifejacket for junior. Interesting point about the oxygen mask. Thankfully our flight was fairly empty.

cynder

I traveled to America with my guy who as 20 months, we purchased a seat for him shannon to new york, new york to Orlando, and back again, i doubt very much our car seat would have fitted in the airline seat, a rock a tot would but not an evolva123.

He would not stay in the seat during take of and landing and i had him on my lap, the air-stewardesses gave out like mad but as soon at they sat down he was back on my lap again. 2 air stewards were very nice and gave me an extra belt for him the other 2 were doing their job to a t and would not allow any give. He screamed and shouted and kicked and was completely out of control, it was only during landing and take off.

He has been on planes since and now handles them very well.

Terpsichore

newmammy2011 wrote: »

Myself and my partner will be travveling by airplane with 2 infants in the summer.
We initially booked our own 2 seats with the intention of the babies being on our laps, but I was thinking the last few day that it would be handy to book another seat to have a bit of space.
I went back into the travel agents last night but they said i could not do this. Is this correct or was I misinformed? If this is correct, how can someone book a seat in an infants name to use with a car seat?

Either the travel agent was stupid and didn't know how to proceed (adding extras seats to an existing reservation), because two extras seats sold is good for business especially nowadays...
Either the plane was already full and there was no seats left to sell.
Maybe ring a second time and try to talk to someone else to understand why it's not possible...

You will only be able to bring your car seat on the condition that you have purchased a seat paying a "child fare" for your infant. Usually infants tickets are 10% of adult fare (on lap) while child fares are usually around 70% of the adult fare (have their own seat).

newmammy2011

Thanks for your reply
The travel agent didnt actually ask me any details about the holiday so wouldnt have been able to check if the flight was full!
I did read on Aer lingus website that you can only use a car seat for babies over 6 months of age and that babies under 6 months must be seated on a parents lap. We arent flying with Aer Lingus but assumed there wold be a similar policy with the airlines. The travel agent didnt ask me how old the babies would be either so didnt think this was her reason for saying no either!

Terpsichore

newmammy2011 wrote: »

Thanks for your reply
The travel agent didnt actually ask me any details about the holiday so wouldnt have been able to check if the flight was full!

Well that's quite something isn't it? Why bother with a travel agent if he/she is not interested in you???[/QUOTE]

I did read on Aer lingus website that you can only use a car seat for babies over 6 months of age and that babies under 6 months must be seated on a parents lap. We arent flying with Aer Lingus but assumed there wold be a similar policy with the airlines. The travel agent didnt ask me how old the babies would be either so didnt think this was her reason for saying no either![/QUOTE]

My experience is NEVER assume anything when travelling by air. Always double check and triple check with airlines and travel agents (if they are even able to do so...):
-Not all car seats are "air travel certified".
-Not all aircrafts are suitable for car seats. Depending if you're going only to Paris on a small plane or travelling all the way to Sydney on a jumbo.

As for the information given by Aer Lingus it is quite curious that they won't allow infants under 6 months a car seat if that's your wish. But in that case, the infant travels with a child fare. Maybe this is where things are getting confusing...

Ah... the joys of travel!

newmammy2011

Terpsichore wrote: »

My experience is NEVER assume anything when travelling by air. Always double check and triple check with airlines and travel agents (if they are even able to do so...):
-Not all car seats are "air travel certified".
-Not all aircrafts are suitable for car seats. Depending if you're going only to Paris on a small plane or travelling all the way to Sydney on a jumbo.

As for the information given by Aer Lingus it is quite curious that they won't allow infants under 6 months a car seat if that's your wish. But in that case, the infant travels with a child fare. Maybe this is where things are getting confusing...

Here is the link from aer lingus' website
http://www.aerlingus.com/travelinformation/knowbeforeyoufly/travellingwithchildren/

I hadnt actually intended on bringing a car seat with me.....had just wondered why they wouldnt allow me to buy the seat in the babies name

Terpsichore

I think the only way to know is to ask them directly, and maybe ask to talk to a supervisor... I know this sounds silly, but it doesn't make sense that an agent would refuse to book customers... I bet you the agent you were talking to didn't know how to book infants in their computer system... Tragic!

newmammy2011

Yeah I thought it was a bit mad alright!....I thought they'd be only 2 happy too offload another seat!
Will pop in again this week and see if I have any joy!
If we cant buy the seat....I really pity the unfortunate person that has to sit beside us!!:D It'll will pribably be the last seat taken on the plane!

Terpsichore

Good luck with that! And demand that service from your travel agent! They can't get away with poor customer service in these tough times! Maybe selling a child/infant ticket wasn't worth her time... Dear God!

Newmammy, your babies haven't been born yet, is that right? I doubt that the travel agent can book you an airline ticket without dates of birth, passport info etc.

bulmersgal

i was on another website and similar question came up about a expectant mother booking plane ticket for new baby and the advise she got was to book it a infant and then your second name example being Infant Kenny. Then when baby is born you can ring up and change name. Another girl said she had done this, you can pm me and i will send you the link

LashingLady

I brought the infant carrier (first stage carseat) on the plane when my little girl was 8 weeks old. The plane wasn't full, but I had to have her on my lap for takeoff and landing, and the carseat fit in the overhead bins for that. I had a spare seat beside me and I secured the carseat with the seatbelt and she slept in it for the whole journey. I felt that she was very safe in it and it was great to have hands free to deal with my 2 year old. But I had to take her out again for landing and stow the seat. We wheeled it to the gate on the frame, but we had to wait to get to baggage hall to pick the frame up afterwards so I don't think it would have worked if I was travelling on my own.

Terpsichore

Deleted User wrote: »

Newmammy, your babies haven't been born yet, is that right? I doubt that the travel agent can book you an airline ticket without dates of birth, passport info etc.

Unless they have a really basic reservation system, they can put a generic information in and come back later to update it. I think that in this case someone lazy didn't want to look in their handbook for the right entry to type.
Otherwise, this is really silly as there is normally a maximum amount of infants allowed onboard, and the parents are left to take a gamble on availability.

newmammy2011

Yes thats right, babies havent been born yet.
The travel agent has booked them on the flight using their surnames with first names to be advised.
They just wont allow me to book a seat for the babies.

newmammy2011

LashingLady wrote: »

I brought the infant carrier (first stage carseat) on the plane when my little girl was 8 weeks old. The plane wasn't full, but I had to have her on my lap for takeoff and landing, and the carseat fit in the overhead bins for that. I had a spare seat beside me and I secured the carseat with the seatbelt and she slept in it for the whole journey. I felt that she was very safe in it and it was great to have hands free to deal with my 2 year old. But I had to take her out again for landing and stow the seat. We wheeled it to the gate on the frame, but we had to wait to get to baggage hall to pick the frame up afterwards so I don't think it would have worked if I was travelling on my own.

With a bit of luck our plane wont be full!
We didnt actually plan on bringing car seats with us, but were just thinking that the empty seat beside us would be handy for using if even just to throw a changing bag onto so that when something was needed out of it we werent trying to reach in under our feet with a baby on our lap!
I had thought that if I could pay for the seat then I wouldnt be leaving it to chance that there would be a free seat available!

sideswipe

Been on Aer Lingus 4 times with a Maxi cosi. Booked separate seat each time. No problems at all, in fact I'd HIGHLY recommend.

newmammy2011

Can you tell me if this was recently and how old the baby was?

sideswipe

newmammy2011 wrote: »

Can you tell me if this was recently and how old the baby was?

January was the last time, bab's was 9 months. The only thing to remember is kiddie seats have to be airline approved and forward facing, having said that nobody really checked with us and left it to us to strap in the seat etc. Babies have to be in lap for take off and landing.