So I started playing FF13....

Retr0gamer

I heard lots of bad things about this game. It's incredibly linear. The start of the game is a 20 hour tutorial. The story is rubbish. I also think Square Enix are incapable of making a great RPG anymore.

Well I decided to play it out of morbid curiosity and I've gotten close to the end of chapter 4 (a little bit after getting Odin). I have to say I'm really enjoying it. The battle system is superb, like really good. I usually hate the ATB system and felt it's never worked properly with turn based systems being so much better but I think they nailed it this time and the complete overhaul makes a frantic and yet tactical battle system. The harder fights feel like the boss fights of FF12 which in my opinion was the only time the battle system actually worked in that game. It seems to work for every battle in this game.

The 20 hour tutorial is kind of hyperbole but I admit it did take a while before pressing just X got you through every battle. At the point I'm at the battle system has been excellent since I gained access to the paradigm shifts.

The linearity thing is not a problem for me. People foget that FFX, one of the best FF games was just as linear. Also people don't realise that previous FF games from FF4 onwards, with the exception of FF6 and FF12 were totally linear affairs. They only gave the illusion of freedom but you were always being ferried from point A to B to C. The omission of towns is a little more jarring. Although in FF games they were rarely functional gameplay-wise but they did add a lot to the world and by giving you an insight into how normal people of the world felt.

I'm finding the story interesting enough. The world of Cocoon and Pulse is fascinating, I'm reallty enjoying the setting and the amount of work put into the mythos of this universe. The quite frankly stunning graphics and art really help as well. Characters aren't too bad, Sazh is a real stand out while Vanille at the moment is hateful but she's the only weak one so far in a good cast.

I might change my mind but this is definitely not the disaster it's been made out to be. In fact it'sone of the most enjoyable games of the year for me.

nix

I stopped playing shortly after the "Moms are tough" line, i think ill give it another whirl. I cant seem to get the time to play these kinda games these days, They always require hours of play just for it to kick off and grab you in..

And yeah the fighting is super boring at the start, x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x, new battle, x,x,x,x,x,x,x,x level up. Does it only pick up after the 20 hours tutorial? I was kinda hoping the tutorial crap was nearly over, im not even near 20hours play

Retr0gamer

Well you are hardly 2 hours into the game. Also before that point you can't even level up

I found once you get access to the paradigms at the start of chapter 3 (about 4-5 hours in) the battle system starts to get a lot better. There's been a few tutorials since then but it's nothing major. You definitely don't need to play 20 hours until the battle system gets good. The 20 hour mark I heard is where the game opens up and becomes non-linear.

carbonkid

I started finding the battle system interesting once i had to start using snow as a sentinel to actually win the battle. The thing that bugged me the most was not having control of the rest of my party during the battle...even if i could set them up with a gambit system would of been ok. Oh yea and i wasnt crazy about the auto-button. I know i didnt have to use it but the fast pace of the battles were designed for the auto-button to be used most of the time. I missed messing around with different spells. lol...and the more i think about it...having the party fully healed after every battle and all the auto-saves kinda took the fun out of it a little for me. Needed a little more risk!

Saying all that i did put away about 120hrs when i finished it about 60hrs in. It was a fun game but was probably one of the worst in the FF franchise.

Caoimhín

I got half way through disc 2 and quit in frustration. The melodramatic cut scenes were just too much for me. I cant remember another FF game in which the cut scenes took up two thirds (if not more) of the game time.

Sad to say, its the first FF since VII that i disliked.

GothPunk

Told you you'd like it Retr0. See, a man who appreciates a great battle system! You've gotten to the point where I really started to like the battle system. I think by Chapter 9 or 10 is when I started to love the battle system, so it could be it'll get even better for you as well.

I also really enjoyed the in game encyclopedia, it gives a lot of background to the world and explains a lot. It really adds something to a game for me (as does the codex in Assassin's Creed II) as they can't always explain everything about a world through the story and interactions with NPCs.

Retr0gamer

carbonkid wrote: »

having the party fully healed after every battle and all the auto-saves kinda took the fun out of it a little for me.

Don't miss this at all. It streamlines things so you don't have to open a menu after every second battle to heal.

GothPunk wrote: »

Told you you'd like it Retr0. See, a man who appreciates a great battle system!

It was your recommendation that made me try it. That and the 12 euro price tag on Zavvi

Xluna

From a person who I consider having good taste in video games I am a bit shocked. Sure, previous FF games gave the illusion of reality but is that not a vital part of an RPG-illusion,immersion, escapism and fantasy? I hate the fact that there are no towns. It is like a world devoid of culture. FFXIII is still the most linear RPG I have ever played. I found the world uninteresting and the characters derivitive. Compare to the Suikoden characters and world. The battle system is ok but controlling only one character at a time really feels limited and the leveling up system is more limited than it appears. I wanted to like this game, I really did, but half way through chapter 12 I went back to playing FFVII, FF IX and Terranigma on my PSP and DS.

seraphimvc

hah! retro i was fine with the game too, until the point you need fight off that Alexander, and then the characters like snow, HOPE and vanille made me totally hate the story!

i spent about 40+hrs to finish the game so i am not sure if you are kinda slow with that 20hours on chapter 4 :pac:

as i said before the battle system really really really has a huge potential (some people may have recalled my posts :P), but squareenix is kinda wateringdown the mechanics - once you figure out the lightning spell is quicker to cast(has a faster casting animation), you can take every battle easily by chaining and stagger.

the problem of ff13 is that (iirc), the story is totally, ****E. dont get me wrong, the novel prob looks decent (judging from people read the original japanese script released on famitsu). i blame Hope and vanille ruined the story and square saved the story for the other spin-offs.

ohya, and the stupid summons fights and some SUPER turtle enemy designed to waste our times. wait till retro you see how to get all the ultimate weapons, i challenge you for that :P

i truly can see that FF13 can be another epic FF judging by the ending, only if square done it right. go read sockmakepeoplesexy review on FF13, i agree 90% of what the guy said - the bottom line is, ff13 is still a good JRPG, it is just that as a 'hardcore' FF myself, a part deep down in my heart dies a little after playing ff13. such a disappointment.

seraphimvc

Xluna wrote: »

From a person who I consider having good taste in video games I am a bit shocked. Sure, previous FF games gave the illusion of reality but is that not a vital part of an RPG-illusion,immersion, escapism and fantasy? I hate the fact that there are no towns. It is like a world devoid of culture. FFXIII is still the most linear RPG I have ever played. I found the world uninteresting and the characters derivitive. Compare to the Suikoden characters and world. The battle system is ok but controlling only one character at a time really feels limited and the leveling up system is more limited than it appears. I wanted to like this game, I really did, but half way through chapter 12 I went back to playing FFVII, FF IX and Terranigma on my PSP and DS.

man, many of us really been there done there, dont we all:o

GothPunk wrote: »

Told you you'd like it Retr0. See, a man who appreciates a great battle system! You've gotten to the point where I really started to like the battle system. I think by Chapter 9 or 10 is when I started to love the battle system, so it could be it'll get even better for you as well.

I also really enjoyed the in game encyclopedia, it gives a lot of background to the world and explains a lot. It really adds something to a game for me (as does the codex in Assassin's Creed II) as they can't always explain everything about a world through the story and interactions with NPCs.

from my play through, there is barely any interaction with the characters and the story the world all the characters didnt do any talk (anything really matters) at all after they officially joined. at many points in the ff13, i keep feeling that 'why do i care for these people?' - worst rpg experience ever! such a failed role playing game. and the reason is simple, there is not enough effort to put more details on the characters's background etc.

the story of ff13 can literally be summed up in 1 line:

2girls who failed (sacrifice themselves) to 'give the world peace' 500years ago and now they come back to do their job.

in the end of the day i dont even freaking understand why the whole ff13 is needed, since they dealt more damage to the world throughout the story=_=

Calhoun

What did you guys think of having to level your weapon? I thought it was a bit over the top but i suppose when you make a story as linear as this with planned encounters instead of random you are on a set leveling curve so they have to try balance it out.

seraphimvc

i only got 2 ultimate weapons for Fang and Lightning. every characters have 8 ultimate weapons if iirc. i usually get the ultimate weapons for most of the characters in FF series but getting all ultimate weapons for ff13 is simply insane (due to how hard to get the fcking material from that elephant).

there are tonnes of materials/parts you can play around to upgrade your weapons etc but none of them serve any real entertainment purpose - they are just some random codes/names to allow you to use them. i've never use a sharkcode cheat etc caused' i think it is lame to cheat but i think the cheats are totally legit for ff13.

i'd be less pissed if they at least show me how do these parts look like etc rather just a fcking meaningless name.

Retr0gamer

Again I don't see any validity in the linear argument when practically every other JRPG or FF game is just as linear as FF13?

Calhoun

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Again I don't see any validity in the linear argument when practically every other JRPG or FF game is just as linear as FF13?

I suppose its more the illusion of freedom in the other games that doesn't seem to exist in this one i.e. the world maps ect. Just made the game seem all that bigger and more open.

Xluna

Calhoun wrote: »

What did you guys think of having to level your weapon? I thought it was a bit over the top but i suppose when you make a story as linear as this with planned encounters instead of random you are on a set leveling curve so they have to try balance it out.

I did not like it, needlessly complex. Suikoden II had a great levelling up system for its weapons. Simple but satisfying.

Mindkiller

The linearity is not the real problem with FFXIII. The real problem is its patronising structure. The 27 hours I played of FFXIII comprised almost totally of fighting the same monsters for about 2 hours at a time before a routine palette swap in a new environment. Repeat ad-naseum.

The closest comparison I can think of is Assassin's Creed, which is a non-linear, free roaming adventure. Yet you do monotonous tasks over and over again for the whole game.
Imagine that as a 50 hour RPG.

Those other Final Fantasy games allow you to progress at your own pace and do sidequests and such. XIII does not allow you to do this at all.
All you'll be doing for the next 20-odd hours is grinding. And watching hilariously melodramatic cutscenes.

Now the combat system is very inventive, but again it feels like a backstep of sorts. XII did away with 'arenas' and gave you full control over your party even while AI controlled.
XIII went back to arena-style combat and gives you very little control. If they incorporated some form of gambit system rather than the archaic job system into XIII it would be for the better imo.

Also, I thought that FFVIII gave you a ton of freedom for a 'linear' RPG. Much more so that VII or IX.

RedXIV

I played it right up until you got to cocoon but i'm just not really pushed to get back into it. I think as said above, the battle system can't really compensate for the lack of interaction the other games used to give you with the locals.

Raze_them_all

Bloody hate this game.


The story is stupid and the ending wow. It just screams bad writing. Lazy gits. 8 storyline was insanely stupid but at least it was entertaining. 13 just screams retarded.

noodler

OOhh the Retr0 seal of approval.

Gonna pick it up soon anyway, while its nice and cheap.

Amazing I haven't played it yet and its been out this long.

Still though, got PES and BF2 occupying my time. As well as Fallout New Vegas. Still got Bioshock 2 to start and dead space to finish.

Memnoch

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I heard lots of bad things about this game. It's incredibly linear. The start of the game is a 20 hour tutorial. The story is rubbish. I also think Square Enix are incapable of making a great RPG anymore.

Well I decided to play it out of morbid curiosity and I've gotten close to the end of chapter 4 (a little bit after getting Odin). I have to say I'm really enjoying it. The battle system is superb, like really good. I usually hate the ATB system and felt it's never worked properly with turn based systems being so much better but I think they nailed it this time and the complete overhaul makes a frantic and yet tactical battle system. The harder fights feel like the boss fights of FF12 which in my opinion was the only time the battle system actually worked in that game. It seems to work for every battle in this game.

The 20 hour tutorial is kind of hyperbole but I admit it did take a while before pressing just X got you through every battle. At the point I'm at the battle system has been excellent since I gained access to the paradigm shifts.

The linearity thing is not a problem for me. People foget that FFX, one of the best FF games was just as linear. Also people don't realise that previous FF games from FF4 onwards, with the exception of FF6 and FF12 were totally linear affairs. They only gave the illusion of freedom but you were always being ferried from point A to B to C. The omission of towns is a little more jarring. Although in FF games they were rarely functional gameplay-wise but they did add a lot to the world and by giving you an insight into how normal people of the world felt.

I'm finding the story interesting enough. The world of Cocoon and Pulse is fascinating, I'm reallty enjoying the setting and the amount of work put into the mythos of this universe. The quite frankly stunning graphics and art really help as well. Characters aren't too bad, Sazh is a real stand out while Vanille at the moment is hateful but she's the only weak one so far in a good cast.

I might change my mind but this is definitely not the disaster it's been made out to be. In fact it'sone of the most enjoyable games of the year for me.

You're judging the game too early.

I actually finished it. I "enjoyed" it too.

I agree with you, the battle system is pretty awesome and works really well. Unfortunately, everything else falls apart the deeper you get into the game.

TBH the Story and linearity, character issues didn't bother me till about 40 hours into the game. When it really started to hit me was after I got to Pulse.

Linearity itself isn't a problem. But even in linear FF games like X there's usually SOME exploration/puzzle solving. There are alternate paths to take and fantastic minigames to occupy.

Yes Pulse is chock full of kill quests and areas to explore yet the game never felt more lifeless or hollow to me than when I was on pulse.

I actually put a lot of hours into the game trying to finish everything. So I must have enjoyed SOME of it. And the bit I enjoyed is the battle system for sure. However, as great as it is, in the final analysis it can't overcome the other short comings of the game.

The story is horrendous. You haven't really gotten into it yet, but it will start unravelling eventually and the ending is easily the worst of any FF game.
The characters are pathetic and paper thin and will also begin to unravel soon.
There is no immersion. The lack of towns and minigames and everything else that made ff, FF is gone and it shows.

Yes the graphics are nice, as is the music. And for people who like "hard dungeon crawlers," it might be an okay game.

But for people like me who fell in love with the RP aspect of the games, the story and the characters, it was, in the end, an unmitigated disappointment.

Xluna

Yeah Pulse was a major dissapointment and anti climax. After the ultra linear aspect of the game was endured I was expecting something akin to an actual JRPG when I got to Pulse-but no. It's like Monster hunter.

In fact the term anti climax describes my feelings for this game when I first played it perfectly. Square pretty much admitted it's not an RPG.
Lost Odyssey is far more of a sequal to FF XII than this is.

Mindkiller

Yeah, Pulse was basically a bigger version of the Calm Lands. Just a load of flat, green, featureless landscape.
There are a lot of parallels in XIII with X actually.

Later on in the game each battle becomes a 10 minute grind which is especially annoying when you're running through samey corridors fighting the exact same enemies over and over.

FFXIII is pretty, but some of the stages reminded me of a dungeon in Oblivion. By that I mean how they re-use and repeat the same rooms over and over. It just feels so lazy. Like the spent all the time on the cutscenes and built a really flimsy game around them.

seraphimvc

i did say ff13 feels like a Monster hunter too back in the old thread it is no coincidence that SE did give alot attention to the big hits of MH series of recent years. the 'sidequest' is just plain boring=_=

after i finished 13, i look back 12 - 12 was a much more enjoyable game. the mark sidequest of 12 is very similar to 13's but it is strangely less boring than 13. weird.

retro please finish 13 asap and tell us what you think!!:D

dmcdante

This was for me the hardest final fantasy i finished not cause it was hard but it was so boring and it did not really feel like a final fantasy there was no evil dude in your face so that did not help the story along i miss the turn based action of old

Raze_them_all

dmcdante wrote: »

This was for me the hardest final fantasy i finished not cause it was hard but it was so boring and it did not really feel like a final fantasy there was no evil dude in your face so that did not help the story along i miss the turn based action of old

hey I found that owl to be quite menacing.......

dmcdante

god ya i forgot about that legend it did have a evil gaze

Retr0gamer

Halfway through Nautilus and liking it even more.

richymcdermott

I present to you Final Fantasy 13 the worlds most linear game this generation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeDQM_0DS34

Raze_them_all

I'd love to see if he did one after the 60 hours. He would completely and correctly rip it apart

GothPunk

richymcdermott wrote: »

I present to you Final Fantasy 13 the worlds most linear game this generation

That's kind of an embarrassing review regarding what he says about the battle system, although in fairness he says he was right at the start of the game. It becomes so much more than that - even early on in the game you can't 'L1+X' the summon battles as if you do you'll just fail. You have to figure out the strategy to beat the bosses and the later enemies in the game - in particular when you have mixes of enemies of different types/weaknesses etc.

I also find it unusual that he has White Knight Chronicles looping in the background. I really enjoyed White Knight Chronicles (in fact I finished it twice), but it's battle system is pretty boring. It's story is also pretty standard save the princess fare. However, it does have towns and NPCs that can spout endless nothings at you so clearly that means it's the superior game...

I can understand the hate that FFXIII got as clearly there's a very varied audience out there who like different things in particular about FF games, so they had so many hopes and dreams about it and then they didn't come true. However I think it's a stretch to say it's a bad game - I think it's one of the better JRPGs of this generation. It's fun, it tries something different story wise (although it fails some what in that it can get hard to follow and perhaps the characters weren't easy to connect with) and it creates a fantastic lore and world (if you've read the in-game encyclopedia I'm sure you know what I mean).

I really like that reviewers description of the story (in the review below), although I don't agree with all his points (Fang is a butch lesbian now?) it's pretty damn funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2z7vHsqq_Q

Mark Hamill

GothPunk wrote: »

That's kind of an embarrassing review regarding what he says about the battle system, although in fairness he says he was right at the start of the game. It becomes so much more than that - even early on in the game you can't 'L1+X' the summon battles as if you do you'll just fail. You have to figure out the strategy to beat the bosses and the later enemies in the game - in particular when you have mixes of enemies of different types/weaknesses etc.

But the summon battles are more like point and click adventure puzzles than actual intelligent battles, in that success is based on figuring the single random magic or ability that actually hurts them. There is only really one way to beat each one, and once you figure it out, there is zero challenge to them. And the reason that "L1 + X" doesn't work is because it, and the NPCs on your team, are not intelligent enought to support you properly. If it had the customisation of the gambit system from 12, you well could beat every boss with "L1+X".

GothPunk wrote: »

I can understand the hate that FFXIII got as clearly there's a very varied audience out there who like different things in particular about FF games, so they had so many hopes and dreams about it and then they didn't come true. However I think it's a stretch to say it's a bad game - I think it's one of the better JRPGs of this generation. It's fun, it tries something different story wise (although it fails some what in that it can get hard to follow and perhaps the characters weren't easy to connect with) and it creates a fantastic lore and world (if you've read the in-game encyclopedia I'm sure you know what I mean).

I think you are giving the writers and game makers far too much credit. They weren't "trying something different" with the story, they just phoned it in with horrible jrpg cliches and a story which literally makes no sense (I could follow it no problem, but the ending doesn't make any sense wrt to the characters motivations and aims). This, and what is, at least, a very boring battle and item system(I'll grant that its not exactly terrible, but it is boring) kills the fun for many people.
As for the lore and world? That doesn't count if its texts files hidden in the menu. You might as well be on the internet reading a fan wiki when reading the enemy profiles, for all they matter to the game play. It cant add to teh world of ff13 if it isn't actually in the world of ff13.