So I started playing FF13....

Mark Hamill

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Halfway through Nautilus and liking it even more.

You are at the best part, from what I remember. With Sazh and Vannille, right? Sazh was by far the best character in the game, and while Vannille is irritating, her journey, with him, was fairly interesting.

Pity, then, that Sazh became that horrible, racist, "Ah hell NO!" black character cliche and Vannille never surpassed her irritating little sh*t persona into something more interesting

.

Retr0gamer

Don't just don't get the hate that people have for this game. What were people expecting, a western non-linear RPG with dialogue choices?

Yes the game is linear but nearly every JRPG ever made is just as linear. FF13 is just as linear as the vast majority of the series it just doesn't bother hiding it with a constrained world map and some awful minigames to play.

What it does provide is one of the best battle systems ever devised for an RPG. It's got one of the best soundtracks of the series. It's gorgeous looking with great art even if there's a bit too many palette swaps, although just as many palette swaps as previous FF games. And I think the story is really interesting, the universe is great and I like the characters. Even Vanille, Snow and Hope have grown into very likeable characters at this stage. At this stage I'd say it's a better game than FFVII and it's supposedly going to get better once I get to Gran Pulse.

I have a feeling this game will be like FF9. People moaned about it when it came out how it wasn't exactly like FFVII but now in retrospect it was by far the best FF game of the PS1 games.

GothPunk

Mark Hamill wrote: »

But the summon battles are more like point and click adventure puzzles than actual intelligent battles, in that success is based on figuring the single random magic or ability that actually hurts them. There is only really one way to beat each one, and once you figure it out, there is zero challenge to them.

Isn’t this an interesting approach though? It works the same way as some of the bosses in Persona 3 and 4, as in, they are a little gimmicky but they do two things: they teach you more about the battle system and they mix things up a bit. They also teach you about how to boost those summons before you go into ‘gestalt mode’ by filling the gestalt gauge. It makes a change of pace in that it requires you to come up with the right strategy and not just get lucky or spam your most powerful magic attack.

Mark Hamill wrote: »

And the reason that "L1 + X" doesn't work is because it, and the NPCs on your team, are not intelligent enought to support you properly. If it had the customisation of the gambit system from 12, you well could beat every boss with "L1+X".

I don’t think that the NPC characters are stupid at all, if you use Libra they’ll attack with the right element. When you have them cast support magic they cast Haste first, then Protect/Elemental Defense and then attack boosters – that’s exactly what I do when I’m in control. I don’t think I ever lost a battle in FFXIII due to stupid AI, which is more than I can say for Persona 3 and 4 (I play those games without taking manual control of my party).

About the ‘L1 + X’ comment he makes. In fairness you can finish any FF game by holding A/X etc. Whether that would be any fun or a very successful strategy 100% of the time is another question. You may think this a silly example but I know someone who played large parts of FFVII and FFVIII doing just that. FFXIII is set up to reward you for doing better in battles, i.e. finishing them as quickly as possible. In order to do this you have to have the right paradigms set up, juggle them well, exploit weaknesses and build the stagger bar (although for some bosses building their stagger bar is the worst thing to do). For me, it’s a more engaging battle system and it’s more fun. I think most JRPGs are more focused on the grind and surviving multiple battles than they are about performing well in individual battles, which is what FFXIII is all about.

I think its crime is that it’s different and it has an over long tutorial. I think that some people were approaching the game with a particular play style in mind and not adapting to the play style the developers had in mind when creating the game. FFXIII is supposed to be fast paced and varied, whereas I’ve seen and read people use the same set of paradigms and the same attacks against many different types of enemies, and even using 2-3 healers in a paradigm. I think the giant tutorial stage is to blame for this, as people got used to using auto-attack and didn’t need to change paradigms early on. People who had finished the game before me told me that the final boss was really hard to get 5 stars in, and took them ages to get their strategy right. I thought it was easy as I was already finishing battles quickly, I think there are much harder battles (like the ones where staggering is a bad idea). Some people told me they spent 20-30 minutes fighting some of the later bosses – this is just wrong! They should never take you that long if you’re playing well. If you’re playing well you shouldn’t need 2 healers in a paradigm until the later part of the last chapter. The game is even set up to support this in that you are healed after every battle.

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I think you are giving the writers and game makers far too much credit. They weren't "trying something different" with the story, they just phoned it in with horrible jrpg cliches and a story which literally makes no sense (I could follow it no problem, but the ending doesn't make any sense wrt to the characters motivations and aims). This, and what is, at least, a very boring battle and item system(I'll grant that its not exactly terrible, but it is boring) kills the fun for many people.

I do think they were trying something different with the story. For one, you’re not heroes. Everyone in the game hates you and thinks you’re evil. The bad guys aren’t one distinct set of cronies, but a whole society essentially and a load of demi-gods who want you dead or fear you. What I mean about the game not making much sense to some people is that I think FFXIII suffers from the fact that the writers wanted to set up the whole ‘Fabula Nova Crystallis’ lore to be further explored in FFvXIII and FFagitoXIII. Some people didn’t get what a Fal’Cie or a L’Cie was, or didn’t care. I think that the game is directed towards (Japanese?) young people, it’s saying ‘don’t worry about what your parents, teachers or society have decided you’re going to be (your ‘fate’ as it were), aim high and go for what you want to do in life (make the impossible possible) - so perhaps not much more than the 'believe in yourself and follow your dreams' of every other piece of media aimed at young people in Japan.’ Whilst I agree about the ending (I do think it fell a little flat), I respect them for trying something different. Particularly when other JRPGs have disappointing stereotypical stories or just downright weird/non-sensical ones.

Mark Hamill wrote: »

As for the lore and world? That doesn't count if its texts files hidden in the menu. You might as well be on the internet reading a fan wiki when reading the enemy profiles, for all they matter to the game play. It cant add to teh world of ff13 if it isn't actually in the world of ff13.

I couldn’t disagree more. Some of my favourite parts of FFXIII, Lost Odyssey and Assassin’s Creed were the little stories that are there for you to read (and of course Lost Odyssey gets full marks for presentation of the dreams). It gives you backstory to people, details about places and enemies etc. This is the sort of stuff you get from random NPCs in other games, except in more detail. I much prefer this approach. As developers are creating more detailed worlds, it’s more difficult to have NPCs explain it. Otherwise you’re going to need many more NPCs to do so (or more cutscenes perhaps?), especially when typically they only have a few lines each and even worse when half of them spout off nonsense.

Retr0gamer

GothPunk wrote: »

About the ‘L1 + X’ comment he makes. In fairness you can finish any FF game by holding A/X etc. Whether that would be any fun or a very successful strategy 100% of the time is another question. You may think this a silly example but I know someone who played large parts of FFVII and FFVIII doing just that. FFXIII is set up to reward you for doing better in battles, i.e. finishing them as quickly as possible. In order to do this you have to have the right paradigms set up, juggle them well, exploit weaknesses and build the stagger bar (although for some bosses building their stagger bar is the worst thing to do). For me, it’s a more engaging battle system and it’s more fun. I think most JRPGs are more focused on the grind and surviving multiple battles than they are about performing well in individual battles, which is what FFXIII is all about.

Good point. I found a lot of FF games such as FFVII, FFVIII if you abused the system etc. were pretty much mash X to win with no strategy. FFXIII is far more strategic but is also fast paced. You really have to think about your battle strategy to win and for me I'm always striving to get 5 stars in the battles which is what I get the majority of the time. People playing the game slowly with one attacker and 2 healers aren't playing the game properly and of course they will get annoyed. I think the developers should have put more of an incentive to finish battles fast like Panzer Dragoon Saga does to prevent people from turtling up and being boring.

As for the story, I'm liking it and it really does move along at a brisk pace. It never gets bogged down in non-interactive cutscenes, they seem to be nicely paced and the game has a great brisk pace about it. Compare that to the awfulness of MGS4!

Mark Hamill

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Don't just don't get the hate that people have for this game. What were people expecting, a western non-linear RPG with dialogue choices?

No, just a half way decent game.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Yes the game is linear but nearly every JRPG ever made is just as linear. FF13 is just as linear as the vast majority of the series it just doesn't bother hiding it with a constrained world map and some awful minigames to play.

13 isn't just linear, its bloody well tubular. There is one big area, and the rest are tubes interconnected by cut scenes. Sure rpgs were linear, hell nearly every game is linear, but they at least give the attempt of creating a world around you, with many more open areas between the tubes and (in a lot rpgs) the ability to return to previously seen locations. FF13s linearity just hammered home the completely empty world you in, maybe by itself it wouldn't have been so bad, but coupled with the empty towns, it makes the game dead.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

What it does provide is one of the best battle systems ever devised for an RPG. It's got one of the best soundtracks of the series. It's gorgeous looking with great art even if there's a bit too many palette swaps, although just as many palette swaps as previous FF games. And I think the story is really interesting, the universe is great and I like the characters. Even Vanille, Snow and Hope have grown into very likeable characters at this stage. At this stage I'd say it's a better game than FFVII and it's supposedly going to get better once I get to Gran Pulse.

I can accept it looking and sounding well, the battle system bing a marmite thing and sure rpgs have been palette swapping the enemies for ages, to get their moneys worth from enemy designs, but if I didn't know better, I'd swear you were trolling with the rest! You really need to finish it before proclaiming it to better than 7. FF7 may have lost its way with its story after the first disc, but 13 just looses everything it had been incredibly slowly setting in the last 5 hrs of gameplay- the characters, the story, the gamplay all turn to absolute ****.

Raze_them_all

one of the best soundtracks?? Really retro? I can honestly say I don't remember one piece of music from it.


I really hated final fantasy 13....your hate of legend of dragoon(iirc) is a lovers tiff in comparison.

Retr0gamer

Mark Hamill wrote: »

13 isn't just linear, its bloody well tubular. There is one big area, and the rest are tubes interconnected by cut scenes. Sure rpgs were linear, hell nearly every game is linear, but they at least give the attempt of creating a world around you, with many more open areas between the tubes and (in a lot rpgs) the ability to return to previously seen locations. FF13s linearity just hammered home the completely empty world you in, maybe by itself it wouldn't have been so bad, but coupled with the empty towns, it makes the game dead.

FFXIII and in the same way FFX did the same thing, they trimmed off the fat. Sure you could go back to old places but there was absolutely no point in doing this in the old games, I know I never did. Also you could wander off the beaten track and find... wel absolutely nothing. These games were just as linear it's just that anything you could do outside of the beaten track was pointless. The sidequests were only opened up at the end of the game and it's the same in FFX and FFXIII it just does it in a more streamlined way. Can't comment on the rest because I've not finished it.

Raze_them_all wrote: »

one of the best soundtracks?? Really retro? I can honestly say I don't remember one piece of music from it.

It really is, listening to it right now actually!

Raze_them_all wrote: »

I really hated final fantasy 13....your hate of legend of dragoon(iirc) is a lovers tiff in comparison.

Legend of Dragoon is one of the worst most soulless RPGs ever made, a total exercise in corporate focus testing with no redeeming features. FF13 is certainly not as bad.

Raze_them_all

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Mark Hamill wrote: »

13 isn't just linear, its bloody well tubular. There is one big area, and the rest are tubes interconnected by cut scenes. Sure rpgs were linear, hell nearly every game is linear, but they at least give the attempt of creating a world around you, with many more open areas between the tubes and (in a lot rpgs) the ability to return to previously seen locations. FF13s linearity just hammered home the completely empty world you in, maybe by itself it wouldn't have been so bad, but coupled with the empty towns, it makes the game dead.

FFXIII and in the same way FFX did the same thing, they trimmed off the fat. Sure you could go back to old places but there was absolutely no point in doing this in the old games, I know I never did. Also you could wander off the beaten track and find... wel absolutely nothing. These games were just as linear it's just that anything you could do outside of the beaten track was pointless. The sidequests were only opened up at the end of the game and it's the same in FFX and FFXIII it just does it in a more streamlined way.



It really is, listening to it right now actually!



Legend of Dragoon is one of the worst most soulless RPGs ever made, a total exercise in corporate focus testing with no redeeming features. FF13 is certainly not as bad.

A 20 HOUR TUTORIAL FFS!!!!!!!!!!!

Retr0gamer

It's 20 hours to Gran Pulse. The tutorial is only about 5 hours which is still kind of ridiculous.

Raze_them_all

no it's not, it still sprouts up ****e all along the way. Grand pulse will let you down so much. so so much.

landsleaving

When you get to Gran Pulse, make the most of it, once you leave it's back to linearity and it becomes a lot worse once you taste freedom. The battles aren't as good anymore either, they get really tedious and drawn out.

I actually enjoyed it until Gran Pulse, then after an hour or two there it just fell apart. If it had ended at Gran Pulse it actually would have been an ok game, not great or anything, but enjoyable enough. Aside from the characters.

Edit: The soundtrack has some good songs, but Leona Lewis and Sarah's theme are godawful, and Sarah's theme seems to be on constantly in cut scenes.

Mark Hamill

GothPunk wrote: »

Isn’t this an interesting approach though? It works the same way as some of the bosses in Persona 3 and 4, as in, they are a little gimmicky but they do two things: they teach you more about the battle system and they mix things up a bit. They also teach you about how to boost those summons before you go into ‘gestalt mode’ by filling the gestalt gauge. It makes a change of pace in that it requires you to come up with the right strategy and not just get lucky or spam your most powerful magic attack.

But they are one off, the method you use to win isn't used anywhere else in the game, and it is mostly based on luck or just scanning the enemy. DOnt get me wrong, it did one thing great and that was make status magic actually relevent, but even with that, it got very boring. Bar the hunt bosses, the only single boss that game me any trouble was

the proudclad, just at the end, and that was just because it attacked so quickly.

GothPunk wrote: »

I don’t think that the NPC characters are stupid at all, if you use Libra they’ll attack with the right element. When you have them cast support magic they cast Haste first, then Protect/Elemental Defense and then attack boosters – that’s exactly what I do when I’m in control. I don’t think I ever lost a battle in FFXIII due to stupid AI, which is more than I can say for Persona 3 and 4 (I play those games without taking manual control of my party).

Its been a while since I played, but the one thing I specifically remember was how bad they were at healing. They would always stop healing for me if my party members above a certain point, but not necessarily at 100%. Even if they had no other abilities, they would sit there like idiots and not do anything, even if every character needed a heal to be at 100%.

GothPunk wrote: »

I think most JRPGs are more focused on the grind and surviving multiple battles than they are about performing well in individual battles, which is what FFXIII is all about.

You did see how much exp it takes to level up the crystal thing in the non standard paradigms for each character? Or how much money it costs to level up weapons? FF13 is as much about the gring as any other FF. Its a thing I hate about all of them, grinding is as boing as hell.

GothPunk wrote: »

I think its crime is that it’s different and it has an over long tutorial. I think that some people were approaching the game with a particular play style in mind and not adapting to the play style the developers had in mind when creating the game. FFXIII is supposed to be fast paced and varied, whereas I’ve seen and read people use the same set of paradigms and the same attacks against many different types of enemies, and even using 2-3 healers in a paradigm. I think the giant tutorial stage is to blame for this, as people got used to using auto-attack and didn’t need to change paradigms early on. People who had finished the game before me told me that the final boss was really hard to get 5 stars in, and took them ages to get their strategy right. I thought it was easy as I was already finishing battles quickly, I think there are much harder battles (like the ones where staggering is a bad idea). Some people told me they spent 20-30 minutes fighting some of the later bosses – this is just wrong! They should never take you that long if you’re playing well. If you’re playing well you shouldn’t need 2 healers in a paradigm until the later part of the last chapter. The game is even set up to support this in that you are healed after every battle.

But I didn't do any of that . I changed paradigms all the time, I never used the auto-attack, and I killed the end boss in one go. I wasn't expecting any type of battle system and open to them trying anything, but this one still was boring. Maybe it was because of the tutorial opening, it made everything very slow and because you were usually stuck with just 2/3 characters at a time, successful paradigms were very easy to find.

GothPunk wrote: »

I do think they were trying something different with the story. For one, you’re not heroes. Everyone in the game hates you and thinks you’re evil. The bad guys aren’t one distinct set of cronies, but a whole society essentially and a load of demi-gods who want you dead or fear you. What I mean about the game not making much sense to some people is that I think FFXIII suffers from the fact that the writers wanted to set up the whole ‘Fabula Nova Crystallis’ lore to be further explored in FFvXIII and FFagitoXIII. Some people didn’t get what a Fal’Cie or a L’Cie was, or didn’t care. I think that the game is directed towards (Japanese?) young people, it’s saying ‘don’t worry about what your parents, teachers or society have decided you’re going to be (your ‘fate’ as it were), aim high and go for what you want to do in life (make the impossible possible) - so perhaps not much more than the 'believe in yourself and follow your dreams' of every other piece of media aimed at young people in Japan.’ Whilst I agree about the ending (I do think it fell a little flat), I respect them for trying something different. Particularly when other JRPGs have disappointing stereotypical stories or just downright weird/non-sensical ones.

You are giving the writers far too much credit. It was 6 cliched characters, rebelling against tyrannical rulers who control their homes. Nearly every FF has that. The only reason this game didn't have you go to places where you where liked (most anywhere outside of midgar/junon in 7/ Lindblum in 9 etc) is because they didn't make any towns outside of cocoon and all those inside of cocoon were empty. In FF7 you were terrorists, in FF9 your were pirates, in FF12 you were outlaws. I dont think there is any FF were you dont end up going against some ruling overlord.
And for a story that supposedly is telling people that they should ignore what other people are saying their fate is why

do the characters, after 20 odd hours of raging against their fate and detailing why they shouldn't fulfil it, change their minds right at the very end, follow through on the fate that everyone else was telling them to do? How did they know that killing the fal cie in cocoon wouldn't destroy it? answer: they didn't. So why did they do it? Since when can people just turn back from Cieth? Since when can Fang and Vanille turn into Ragnarok at will (at all)?

The ending doesn't fall flat, its never gets up to fall flat, its just ****.

GothPunk wrote: »

I couldn’t disagree more. Some of my favourite parts of FFXIII, Lost Odyssey and Assassin’s Creed were the little stories that are there for you to read (and of course Lost Odyssey gets full marks for presentation of the dreams). It gives you backstory to people, details about places and enemies etc. This is the sort of stuff you get from random NPCs in other games, except in more detail. I much prefer this approach. As developers are creating more detailed worlds, it’s more difficult to have NPCs explain it. Otherwise you’re going to need many more NPCs to do so (or more cutscenes perhaps?), especially when typically they only have a few lines each and even worse when half of them spout off nonsense.

But then they might as well not tell you anything through actual gameplay and have it all as text files in the menu. It might be hard to integrate it into the game properly, but its the game makers job to do that, its what makes the world real. That they might do it badly is no reason for them not to try, might as well not even make the game if you are afarid they might do it badly.

Mark Hamill

Retr0gamer wrote: »

FFXIII and in the same way FFX did the same thing, they trimmed off the fat. Sure you could go back to old places but there was absolutely no point in doing this in the old games, I know I never did. Also you could wander off the beaten track and find... wel absolutely nothing. These games were just as linear it's just that anything you could do outside of the beaten track was pointless. The sidequests were only opened up at the end of the game and it's the same in FFX and FFXIII it just does it in a more streamlined way. Can't comment on the rest because I've not finished it.

Pointless as it was, it opened up the world, it made it seem like a real place. With bits and places that existed outside of your own little adventure. It ruins the fantasy without them. You might as well remove exploration altogether, just have battle-menu management-battle-menu management-cutscene-battle-cutscene-menu-battle etc and remove the player controled walking between battles and cutscenes altogether.

noodler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Yes the game is linear but nearly every JRPG ever made is just as linear. FF13 is just as linear as the vast majority of the series it just doesn't bother hiding it with a constrained world map and some awful minigames to play.

Now I haven't played 13 yet but you know, playing video games is actually quite linear! You never leave the room, never actually enter another location etc!

I mean you'll be telling me next that Fallout just has you doing fetch quests and killing enemies with different skins - the illusion of non-linearity etc!

Retr0gamer

Totally different type of game. JRPGs are nearly always totally linear affairs where the concentration is on telling a story and the battle system. Western RPGS are always more non-linear where the player has an active role in the story and choices that make a difference.

Mindkiller

So where are you retrogamerguy? Have you got to the extremely brief 'good' bit yet?

Perhaps the game gets better after chapter 11, I don't know. I just felt really jaded from running through that sewer for 2 hours fighting slugs over and over.

It's a really horrible, stultifying game. You can't justifiably compare it to any of the other games other than X. FFVII had a cool little RTS game near the beginning that reaped great rewards and VIII had Triple Triad. In FFVII and FVIII you could explore non-essential places like Gongaga and Dollet and return to earlier locations to learn enemy skills. VIII, for me at least, was a very open experience with a ton of customisation. Far from being restrictive.

XIII is a game which offers the player next to no agency. You might as well just watch Advent Children 15 hundred times and get the same experience.

One of the most annoying things about XIII for me is the level caps at every chapter. You never feel like you are nurturing your abilities. Rather you're unlocking powers the same way you would in Prince of Persia or Assassin's Creed. It's even more restrictive than the key spheres in X.
Lost Odyssey had this problem as well I recall, though it made the boss fights a lot of fun.

seraphimvc

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Don't just don't get the hate that people have for this game. What were people expecting, a western non-linear RPG with dialogue choices?

Yes the game is linear but nearly every JRPG ever made is just as linear. FF13 is just as linear as the vast majority of the series it just doesn't bother hiding it with a constrained world map and some awful minigames to play.

What it does provide is one of the best battle systems ever devised for an RPG. It's got one of the best soundtracks of the series. It's gorgeous looking with great art even if there's a bit too many palette swaps, although just as many palette swaps as previous FF games. And I think the story is really interesting, the universe is great and I like the characters. Even Vanille, Snow and Hope have grown into very likeable characters at this stage. At this stage I'd say it's a better game than FFVII and it's supposedly going to get better once I get to Gran Pulse.

I have a feeling this game will be like FF9. People moaned about it when it came out how it wasn't exactly like FFVII but now in retrospect it was by far the best FF game of the PS1 games.

are we playing the same game ?? :pac:

i was shocked when you say you are enjoying Nautilus.

quick hint: every FF lover from ps1 era, when the first time they look at Nautilus, what is the first thing will spring out the mind?? GOLD SAUCER. and what have ff13 done to us?????

gave us a FCKING disgraceful 1 hour play in Nautilus with some MINICHOCOFCKINGBO catching game??? that chocobo is not even a real size chocobo.

(sorry for the caps i have this outburst nerdy angst when i think of that sh!t)

as i said FF13 is still a good JRPG but it is no way near the quality of my beloved 4-X (12 was a half-product, so it doesnt count). FF13 is a big disappointment to me. It sucks so hard caused' i have so much expection for this game.

and i still dont get it how did you spend 20hours till nautilus, and fyi, the '20hr tutorial' that people have been talking about is actually about the period of time you reach the Gran pulse.

and the battle system is broken(it clearly has so much potential but SE didnt put enough testing in it), you can abuse it by chaining with lightning spell (spell animation fault design). i'd love to see what do you think when you are in the battle in Vanille's summon. alexander battle was retarded and this vanille's summon is pure gayness (:P hope someone get the 'gayness' part). obviously under the condition that you didnt mass grinding before that point.


all in all, retro please finish the game before you put ff9 in your post....i feel sad to see you mention ff9....

seraphimvc

about the singularity of ff13, i am one of those people who can clearly differentiate and appreciate the uniqueness of wrpg or jrpg. but ff13 sucks big time.

there is no epicness in the story. there is no 'fight for our country' story in it. there is no 'save the world' story in it. the characters dont even fcking know each other and those are supposed to know each other fcking memory lost....

if ff7 is about 'emo mama boy wanna destroy the world so lets go kill him!' , ff13 is about nothing. the characters dont even know what they want in the whole game, they just 'heyyyyy, lets just keep going and kill anything stand in our way', which fcking destroy the ('fake') peaceful cocoon people's lives.

and i am disgusted by snow. some cheeky bastard who killed hope's mother and many people but still dare to stand out with no shame to the public. wtf?

ff7 story maybe sucky (and linear) but i guarantee no 1st time player on earth will say this game is 'linear'. why? it is about the story telling. it is about the effort you put in the game to make people not to think 'this game is linear'. it is notable ff13 is missing the maze-like dungeon, towns and minigames. oh and every word from the NPC characters are rubbish. all of these make player cannot get immersed into the game.

and they want us to read the story in the menu. what a shame.

Mr. K

I enjoyed FFXIII, I have yet to go back and complete the sidequests though. The story was decent and Lightning has pretty hair. What more do can we ask for?

I do think it's overly linear, being able to wander a bit in more locations would have been nice.

Retr0gamer

Mindkiller wrote: »

So where are you retrogamerguy? Have you got to the extremely brief 'good' bit yet?XIII is a game which offers the player next to no agency.

Just started the chapter before it. Almost there.

Mindkiller wrote: »

You might as well just watch Advent Children 15 hundred times and get the same experience.

Ah now it's not that bad!

Mindkiller wrote: »

One of the most annoying things about XIII for me is the level caps at every chapter. You never feel like you are nurturing your abilities. Rather you're unlocking powers the same way you would in Prince of Persia or Assassin's Creed. It's even more restrictive than the key spheres in X.

Don't really have a problem with it since Suikoden and a few other games have it as well. It opens up completely at chapter 10 which I'm at now.

seraphimvc wrote: »

i was shocked when you say you are enjoying Nautilus.

quick hint: every FF lover from ps1 era, when the first time they look at Nautilus, what is the first thing will spring out the mind?? GOLD SAUCER. and what have ff13 done to us?????

gave us a FCKING disgraceful 1 hour play in Nautilus with some MINICHOCOFCKINGBO catching game??? that chocobo is not even a real size chocobo.

Always hated golden saucer and its crap minigames, awful music and terrible terrible chocobo racing game you spend hours doing to get knights of the round. Nautilus was much better.

seraphimvc wrote: »

and i still dont get it how did you spend 20hours till nautilus, and fyi, the '20hr tutorial' that people have been talking about is actually about the period of time you reach the Gran pulse.

It didn't take me 20 hours you picked me up wrong. Probably only closing in on 20 hours now just before gran pulse.

Xluna

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Pointless as it was, it opened up the world, it made it seem like a real place. With bits and places that existed outside of your own little adventure. It ruins the fantasy without them. You might as well remove exploration altogether, just have battle-menu management-battle-menu management-cutscene-battle-cutscene-menu-battle etc and remove the player controled walking between battles and cutscenes altogether.

I have many gripes with XIII but this is the main one. It destroys the illusion of being immersed in a fantasy world. I mean, I know in previous FF games you had the illusion of freedom but it was a pretty nice illusion. And that's what video games, and especially RPGs are, illusions/fantasy.

I just can't understand how anyone can say this is a very good game or the changes were for the best.

seraphimvc

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Always hated golden saucer and its crap minigames, awful music and terrible terrible chocobo racing game you spend hours doing to get knights of the round. Nautilus was much better.



It didn't take me 20 hours you picked me up wrong. Probably only closing in on 20 hours now just before gran pulse.

ah:o retro didnt like the theme park? *cry and run to watch ff7 snow boarding mini game*

i had so much fun in breeding and racing chocobos too:( the black chocobo knight was such a nightmare but they are fun experience altogether. FFX's chocobo racing on the other hand.........

if you are closing to gran pulse and still liking it, well then maybe ff13 goes right into your taste.:o

have you beat the vanille's summon yet?? :eek: no complain from it?

Retr0gamer

Got to Gran Pulse at last. It's pretty. Also the marks are way more fun than the boring ones in FF12.

carbonkid

I preferred the marks in XII because it felt more of a challenge to get to where they are. That and it was a job on a job board rather than some floaty thing in the middle of no where. lol...thinking about it now its kinda funny!

seraphimvc

i like ff12's marks better because their special monsters design are pretty cool, while altho ff13 is on 1080p but that really doesnt help the laziness of the design team =_= and when i nearly finish the 40+ marks (40+ above marks are the real tough ones), i suddenly realise that 'wtf i spent many hours on this monster hunter???where is my FF???'.

you get to know more stories of the FF12 world when you are doing the Ff12's marks.

again is really down to personal taste. i said ff13 still is a top jrpg but it lacks of ff's spirit. maybe ill like it more if SE called it 'Legend of a Turtle Killer' <--the only fcking thing i can recall from my near 50hours game time.

btw, enjoy the non-static map in 13, marks in ff12 are so damn less frustrated to find :pac:

Retr0gamer

So I finally finished the game last night. Sorry to say but I really enjoyed it. The ending was a bit limp and the final bosses a complete push over. Still I really liked the characters and the battle system was so damn good.

chopperbyrne

I hated this game.

The battle system was even worse than in XII, but sadly that is the way the main FF series is going.

Doubt we'll ever see a turn based FF game that gives you full control of all characters during battles in the main series again.

noodler

I watched someone playe the first 25 minutes of the game yesterday.

First impression was it looked amazing and the battle music was very catchy.

However, in that 25 mins, I even got bored with the amount of pointless fights on that city motorway thing.

Still gonna buy it of course, once I finish New Vegas and possibly start Bioshock 2.

Raze_them_all

noodler wrote: »

I watched someone playe the first 25 minutes of the game yesterday.

First impression was it looked amazing and the battle music was very catchy.

However, in that 25 mins, I even got bored with the amount of pointless fights on that city motorway thing.

Still gonna buy it of course, once I finish New Vegas and possibly start Bioshock 2.

Don't. Seriously. It is that bad.

seraphimvc

i am still trying to understand how could retro likes ff13 lol. maybe it is suitable for working people who can only spend a couple hours a day to play?? i found the millions of save point all over the maps (very) annoying but it could be convenience for some people. and maybe not finishing the game in a short period of time(i finished it in 3 days) debuffs the hatred to some annoying characters.....hmmm...