Walking Conditions in City Centre

pegasus1

cosmic wrote: »

And what about the parts of the 'pavement' that are not outside people's property?

Poor argument is poor.

then that/they would fall under the same due responsibly of the local council to clear..such as the pavement surrounding any parks..etc.

those in a housing estate, the pavements not outside a house should be cleared by people living in the housing estate and ...our estate, a lot of us cleared the loose snow and salted the road ourselves, to allow cars to get up the hill and to brake safely at the entrance!

Polar101

Right now, the councils couldn't do a worse effort in maintaining footpaths - if they even made 1% of the effort they spent on roads, it would be an improvement. This is a complete disgrace at the moment. I haven't had any trouble getting to the bus stop in this "arctic weather" (tm) until today.

Gavin "shels"

Jesus the paths are lethal, walking from Donore Ave to Fatima Luas stopped and gave up on walking on the path and opted for the road. Then Tallaght isn't much better either, bit of grit thrown down by SDCC along the route from the Luas to ITT.

Frank Bullitt

Fell on my ass last night, have severe bruising in my hip now, 2 days off work and have to rest it, Nice one.

FreudianSlippers

pegasus1 wrote: »

so it seems you condone the walking on roads/slipping and breaking of bones on pavements, that should be responsibly cleaned of snow by each property owner whose boundary is surrounded by any pavement

I don't condone anything. I was merely saying that for people walking today (as I did into work this morning) to be VERY careful on any residual ice/snow as it is extraordinarily slick

the council's cannot possibly clean every pavement in this country..

I'm merely asking them to do an adequate job clearing major footpaths.

in a previous post you mention tort law...what is tort law? define it in layman's speak and not law speak please...this is not the legal forum

A tort arises in civil (as opposed to criminal) matters where one person breaches the civil duty owed to another person.
It is one of the 2 basic types of civil law (the other being contract law).

There are many categories of tort, but the major one (and consequently the one we're discussing) is negligence.
Negligence is based on 4 key aspects that must exist in any claim:
1) That the Defendant owed a duty of care to the Plaintiff
2) That duty of care was breached
3) Harm was caused as a result of that breach (damages)
4) It was the Defendant's breach that caused that harm

Now there are cross-rules and exceptions to that, but at its most basic that is the tort of negligence.

Now, as previously mentioned, in tort law one cannot be held liable for damages arising out of inaction.
The Defendant can be liable, however, if they take an act which assumes responsibility - misfeasance - that is, they take a positive action to clear ice but do a negligent job of doing so (e.g. using boiling water to clear snow which then freezes into sheet ice). In that case it is the action of the Defendant which caused the harm to the Plaintiff.

I hope that makes it more clear. I was not trying to throw around legalese

if one clears the pavement around their property within 1-2 hours of the snowfall it is easy and takes 2 minutes of ones life to do properly leaving no ice behind, and makes it easier for every single person to pass by safely till the next snowfall !
if this was done their would be far less falls and breaking of bones!

Agreed, and nobody is saying that people should not do this. However, what was being discussed was that the Council is more likely to take no action rather than risk doing a negligent (read: half-assed) job and assuming the responsibility (akin to a circumstance mentioned above).

NickDrake

A bit of grit on footpaths near the luas and dart etc would not have gone astray.

The council is a joke and the employees will not work a minute over time.

They should have been out there last week gritting the footpaths that are the busiest.

Simple as. Get up earlier and get it done. If they don't want to then there are plenty on the dole who will do it for half the pay.

Few mainland Europeans where I work and they cannot get over the state of the footpaths and why they are not gritted in the early mornings.

I tried to explain the situation we have here with the civil service and unions and the lazy lazy workers.

They couldn't understand it.

NickDrake

OisinT wrote: »

Individuals: sort of; the CoCo: no.

Actually, I think calling my post rubbish is a bit rich. You're wrong.

Firstly, to my knowledge, the AG never publicly stated anything. Cowen said that the AG said that 'If a pavement is cleared in a manner which disposes of snow so as not to create any obstacle or hazard, there is no issue of liability'.
This assumes that the pavement is cleared properly and not negligently. The duty of care is assumed if you go out and start clearing the ice/snow but fail to do so properly (that is, you do a negligent job).

I would be very weary of letting 'advice' like this remain up for the public to take on board.

It basically boils down to this (as we were discussing it in the LD forum last week):

The CoCo will be not be liable under tort. No way will a court rule against a local authority. The have certain immunity. That is BASIC tort law. 99% of cases are thrown out.

JuliusCaesar

NickDrake wrote: »

I tried to explain the situation we have here with the civil service and unions and the lazy lazy workers.

They couldn't understand it.

Not surprisingly. Council workers have been out from 4am.

Nurses have been staying in friends' houses so that they can go to work in the mornings. People have been keeping the public services going despite personal hardship, as they feel the public needs their services. I shovelled the footpath outside my house, and others did theirs (and did it for elderly people). Result- you could walk on our footpaths - except for the exceptions who are waiting for the council to cope with x2 miles of footpaths as well as x miles of roads in conditions which were completely unexpected. Nobody knew we'd get that freeze/thaw cycle for so long that we'd end up with ice/compacted snow everywhere for such a long period of time.

Et tu, Brute? :rolleyes:

Gavin "shels"

If it was the council or a local thanks to whoever cleared a narrow pathway free of ice from Blackhorse Luas down Tyrconnell Rd, made my journey to and from work a lot easier, cheers.

mikemac

NickDrake wrote: »

The council is a joke and the employees will not work a minute over time.

They should have been out there last week gritting the footpaths that are the busiest.

Simple as. Get up earlier and get it done. If they don't want to then there are plenty on the dole who will do it for half the pay.

Few mainland Europeans where I work and they cannot get over the state of the footpaths and why they are not gritted in the early mornings.

I tried to explain the situation we have here with the civil service and unions and the lazy lazy workers.

Dublin City Council are in massive debt. In the run up to Christmas lots of staff would love overtime to make some extra money.

It's not that staff are refusing to work overtime, it's that the council doesn't have the money to pay overtime rates to hundreds of staff.
And only a fool works extra time for no pay.

As said already, they are out at 4am working so fair play. Roads are fine but footpaths are getting neglected

doctor evil

Perhaps peeps could put up tips on snow/ice removal.

I found prising the compacted ice up with the showel was handy after giving it a few digs with the tip of the blade. I did this to clear the path outside my home. I used a metal shovel, how would a metal pitchfork do to weaken the ice?

I have some coal ash from the fire that I hope will give some grip on the path on the driveway.

I found some videos on youtube, maybe they will be helpful. Perhaps boardsies should email these to community groups/residential associations etc

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=04168061B30E5B20

http://www.videojug.com/webvideo/how-to-use-road-salt-to-de-ice-your-roadway

No idea if this range of rock salts are available in Ireland but if this winter returns in the future than they could be.

NickDrake

feelingstressed wrote: »

Dublin City Council are in massive debt. In the run up to Christmas lots of staff would love overtime to make some extra money.

It's not that staff are refusing to work overtime, it's that the council doesn't have the money to pay overtime rates to hundreds of staff.
And only a fool works extra time for no pay.

As said already, they are out at 4am working so fair play. Roads are fine but footpaths are getting neglected

4.am where? They should be up early. It is their job. There barely work for 9 months of the year.

If there are doing any extra time I can guarantee you they are getting over time or flexy time. This guys are so protected by the Unions, they would not do a second more work or even an ounce extra than they are meant to do

FreudianSlippers

NickDrake wrote: »

The CoCo will be not be liable under tort. No way will a court rule against a local authority. The have certain immunity. That is BASIC tort law. 99% of cases are thrown out.

I disagree with this completely on many levels and from experience acting on behalf of the Council and because the Courts are not a tool of the Councils.
But it's off topic for this thread at this point.

mikemac

NickDrake wrote: »

If there are doing any extra time I can guarantee you they are getting over time or flexy time.

Of course, why would you work extra time without overtime? Why would anyone unless you are self employed or have a share in the business you work

I'm guessing you don't have overtime where you work. Instead of giving out about their terms and conditions, maybe aim to have the same
It's reasonable to get overtime when called upon to work extra hours in exceptional circumstances, like the past few weeks.

If they were normally rostered for those hours then no, then they get the standard salary.

So much outrage Nickdrake.
All I can say is contact your local councillor and you'll get more satisfaction then on boards.ie

NickDrake

feelingstressed wrote: »

Of course, why would you work extra time without overtime? Why would anyone unless you are self employed or have a share in the business you work

I'm guessing you don't have overtime where you work. Instead of giving out about their terms and conditions, maybe aim to have the same
It's reasonable to get overtime when called upon to work extra hours in exceptional circumstances, like the past few weeks.

If they were normally rostered for those hours then no, then they get the standard salary.

So much outrage Nickdrake.
All I can say is contact your local councillor and you'll get more satisfaction then on boards.ie

You must work in the public service.

Where I work I get paid for 35 hours and I easily work 45 hours. I do not get paid overtime. I work the extra hours because I have to and I am expected to.

This is the norm in any corporation in the IFSC , big 4 law firms, accountancy firms etc.

People are working a lot more hours than they are paid for at the moment. People want to keep their jobs.

Your statement is idiotic

John_Rambo

feelingstressed wrote: »

Of course, why would you work extra time without overtime?

To get the job done, as promised.

To get the job done properly.

Because we ran in to unseen difficulties and felt obliged to work late.

The client had an early deadline and he/she's a good client, pays her/his bills.

I will be satisfied going home knowing the job is done.

I respect my clients.

I don't want to leave someone short.

I have a good name in my industry and people respect that.

I take pride in my work.

I am not a business owner, I don't have a stake in the company I am presently with, but, I am a professional. I am very good at what I do, I have to be, and I like it.

You should look at the bolded text feelingstressed.

Sorry, maybe I picked you up wrong. But you are sounding like a "morethanmejobsworth" person!

arybvtcw0eolkf

NickDrake wrote: »

Your statement is idiotic

And your tone is confrontational, and the footpaths are clear now. Walking conditions are fine and before anyone has a falling out with anyone, particularly this public servant, the thread is locked.