Bellmullet community TV

Does anyone else use this service??

I have lost TV3, bbc1 , bbc2 and UTV. On tv3 a message appears stating that the annual subscription of 75 euro is now due and must be sent immediately due to lightening damage to a transmitter

After searching the net ive have have found similar messages in the local notes of the mayo news and western people archives for previous years. This is also a volutary payment.

So some people pay and some dont..how does this work?? and also if i pay tomorrow my tv3 and other channels wont come back on straight away.

Whats the point in paying when you could get a damn good digital package with lots of channels for that price

watty

It has to close soon too.

Currently for "free"
6 TV + 10 Radio on DTT
200+ free TV 70ish free Radio (maybe 20 to 30 usable TV and 15 decent radio ) on Freesat or Freesat HD (preferable even if no HDTV today).

watty

watty wrote: »

It has to close soon too.

Currently for "free"
6 TV + 10 Radio on DTT
200+ free TV 70ish free Radio (maybe 20 to 30 usable TV and 15 decent radio ) on Freesat or Freesat HD (preferable even if no HDTV today).

Do ye think this is abit of an unfair last ditch attempt to make money??

The Cush

Deleted User wrote: »

Do ye think this is abit of an unfair last ditch attempt to make money??

Deflectors are licenced until the end of 2012. Until then electricity has to be paid for and equipment has to be maintained, repaired or replaced.

If you aren't willing to pay for the limited service the UK channels are available for free with a satellite receiver and dish. TV3 on the other hand is only available from a limited number of analogue transmitters and maybe 24+ digital transmitters but you may not be covered by any of these so your only option for this may be Sky or UPC MMDS.

Sponge Bob

They are licenced until Digital Switch on not analogue switch off Cush ......surely. 2010 or 2011 .

There is no MMDS in the Mullet.

Get a satellite dish, all these deflected channels are free save the Irish ones.

Then plug in this box and you can have the sat channels in high def or normal def. Thats BBC and ITV sorted.

When RTE enable either Achill or Belmullet in 2011 you will get TV3 + 3e and RTE HD ....using the same box. If you can receive the Castlebar transmitter you can have them now.

This is only an attempt to get a last few quid out of you , that is all. If the mast was damaged how can they transmit the begging pictures did you ask yourself ???

The Cush

Sponge Bob wrote: »

They are licenced until Digital Switch on not analogue switch off Cush ......surely. 2010 or 2011 .

S.I. 445 of 2009 Wireless Telegraphy (UHF Television Programme Retransmission) Regulations, 2009

Sponge Bob

Not quite Cush, the licences went on a rolling one year basis in 2009 with the proviso that the last rolling one year licence will start latest 31 dec 2011.

If digital comes to your area that year then the licence will not be rolled over. You must shut down. You may have to shut down earlier if there is an interference problem and RTENL complain.

The Cush

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Not quite Cush, the licences went on a rolling one year basis in 2009 with the proviso that the last rolling one year licence will start latest 31 dec 2011.

Yes, ending 2012.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

If digital comes to your area that year then the licence will not be rolled over. You must shut down.

What is the specific reference to shutting down deflectors as digital rolls out other than interference or reserved spectrum?.

Sponge Bob

The licences were sort of open ended 2003-2009 and then went to one year terms. Section 6

Duration and Renewal of Licences
6. (1) A Licence that has been granted or renewed shall (unless it has been
or is revoked) remain in force for the period of one year from the date on
which it is expressed to come into operation and, unless renewed, shall then
expire completely.
(2) A Licence shall not be renewed by the Commission on the third anniversary
after the first grant of the licence but shall then expire completely.
(3) On application by or on behalf of a Licensee to the Commission before
the expiration of his or her Licence, the Commission may, renew the Licence
for a specified period from the day following the date of expiration of the previous
period during which the Licence was in force. The granting or renewal of
a Licence shall not be construed as warranting that the Licence shall be renewed
at any time in the future, and no Licence shall be renewed beyond the third
anniversary of the date upon which it was first granted.
(4) No Licence granted pursuant to these Regulations shall remain valid after
31 December 2012.

( the ones left at the very end will be in Saorsat areas not Saorview areas, the Mullet will get a DTT transmitter, dunno if it goes into Dooncarton or Achill )

The Cush

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The licences were sort of open ended 2003-2009 and then went to one year terms. Section 6

Duration and Renewal of Licences
6. (1) A Licence that has been granted or renewed shall (unless it has been
or is revoked) remain in force for the period of one year from the date on
which it is expressed to come into operation and, unless renewed, shall then
expire completely.
(2) A Licence shall not be renewed by the Commission on the third anniversary
after the first grant of the licence but shall then expire completely.
(3) On application by or on behalf of a Licensee to the Commission before
the expiration of his or her Licence, the Commission may, renew the Licence
for a specified period from the day following the date of expiration of the previous
period during which the Licence was in force. The granting or renewal of
a Licence shall not be construed as warranting that the Licence shall be renewed
at any time in the future, and no Licence shall be renewed beyond the third
anniversary of the date upon which it was first granted.
(4) No Licence granted pursuant to these Regulations shall remain valid after
31 December 2012.

Nothing specific in that quote that requires deflectors to shut down as DTT rolls out.

The 2003 & 2006 licences were 1 year with annual renewal as with the 2009 licences.

The Cush

This from the Connaught Telegraph

Mayo Community TV stays on air

Wednesday, 01 December 2010 14:34
Written by Aiden Henry

The directors of Mayo Community TV (MCTV) have scotched rumours they are pulling the plug on the service now that the new free state digital service, Saorview, is to become available over the next two years.Mr. Padraig Cunnane a director MCTV said the company was committed to continue to provide the service.

He said: "The directors are committed to providing this service, which has been available in the west for over 30 years, provided the public continue to support the service. "The annual contribution of €70 will not be increased and will continue to be collected retrospectively. The collection for last year is now underway and the 2010 collection will not commence until the end of January. It is important people maintain their support if the service is to continue," said Padraig.

"There is no truth in the suggestion that MCTV is finished, now that the new free, state digital service, Saorview, is to become available over the next two years.

"Saorview will provide access to 12 television channels and digital radio channels but will not include the British channels.

"The channels to be provided are turned on as a trial digital service are RTÉ One, Network Two, TV3, TG4 and RTÉ News.

"No provision is being made for retransmission of the British television channels. For people who wish to receive the British channels the choice will be to continue with the service provided by MCTV or pay the much greater cost of the satellite or pay to view digital services. We are licensed to provide BBC1, BBC2, UTV, Channel 4 until December 31, 2012.

"We will continue for as long as the people, by their support, keep the service financially viable. The directors have to keep the finances under continual review to ensure that the company can meet all its outgoings, especially the very high electricity charges for the eight transmitters.

"People who wish to make their contributions direct can continue to send them to me, Padraig Cunnane, Balla or to Joe Gibbons, Westport, as many have done in the past," Padraig said.

http://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/latest-news/1794-mayo-community-tv-remains-on-air

Sponge Bob

They forgot to mention that Freesat also supplies BBC3/4/News ITV 2/3/4 More4/E4/Film4 and a scatter of +1 variants thereof so on the channel per buck measure it is not more expensive to get a dish and stb box....and that before one factors in picture quality.

Someone in Mayo really should email RTENL and get the live dates ( if any) for DTT transmitters in Dooncarton Achill and Westport.

watty

Freesat / FTA has about 40 useful TV and 20 useful radio out of the 200+ TV and 70ish Radio that are Free To Air.

Also 4 HD channels, soon 6 on satellite

MUCH, MUCH better picture quality

Real Widescreen

Folks would be better upgrading to "Freesat HD" + Saorview (or Saorsat next May) than feeding the Dinosaur.

Mayo Exile

From that Connaught Telegraph piece:

The collection for last year is now underway and the 2010 collection will not commence until the end of January.

Hmm. If the end date for MCTV is, say, 31 December 2012, is it in their interest to stay on air until then if they continue their current method of collecting money for the service? If it's off the air in January 2013, I can't see many stumping up cash for the previous year's viewing when people maybe looking at a blank screen by then...........

Mike 1972

Sponge Bob wrote: »

You may have to shut down earlier if there is an interference problem and RTENL complain.

Im suprised there hasnt been any issues (reportedly) with BBC2 from the Castlebar deflector being co channel (53 Horizontal) with DTT from Truskmore

I remember when UTV had to move off Ch 50 because of TG4 from Cairnhill.

Mayo Exile wrote: »

If the end date for MCTV is, say, 31 December 2012, is it in their interest to stay on air until then if they continue their current method of collecting money for the service? If it's off the air in January 2013, I can't see many stumping up cash for the previous year's viewing when people maybe looking at a blank screen by then...........

Its an odd one alright. Did they always use this model ? Where did they get the funds to set up the service originally what about people who move into/out of an area during the year ? Only argument I can can see for it is that if the service has to close prematurely they dont have to go around giving refunds to everyone.

And whats all this stuff about high electricity costs ? With the exception of the old SCTV Comeragh site (reportedly 800w per channel :eek:) I thought they were mostly pretty low powered affairs. Surely maintaining/replacing equipment and repairing storm damage would be their main costs (along with levies/fees/VAT etc)

Mayo Exile

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Its an odd one alright. Did they always use this model ? Where did they get the funds to set up the service originally what about people who move into/out of an area during the year ? Only argument I can can see for it is that if the service has to close prematurely they dont have to go around giving refunds to everyone.

We just had someone call around every year to collect. Was around €40 years ago. Haven't been living down there for a while now so I don't know when the last time people called to the folks house in Murrisk looking for money.

Quality and quantity wise, what watty suggests, the Saorview/Freesat route, is the best way to go. However in reality many people mightn't/dont want anything but the deflector method of getting the UK channels. I got a dish with a Twin LNB put up at the folks house, plus Saorview can be received from the Castlebar relay since August. However everytime I go home they are watching BBC etc via the deflector and the FTA satellite box is plugged out!:eek:.

People seem resistant to change even if it means an improvement of service!

However after 2012, people WILL (or will they) be forced to look alternatives as the deflector licenses officially end. But with us deep in recession now and for a few years to come, will politicians once again turn a blind eye to the operation of deflector systems, as they dont want to be further annoying an already angry electorate? FF politicians especially so!

Mayo Exile

Also in the Western People, 8 December:

Free TV has no BBC
By Cróna Esler

THE Western People has learned that the new free State digital service will not provide popular British channels like BBC1, BBC2, UTV and Channel 4.

Saorview will become available over the next two years and, while it will provide access to 12 television and digital radio stations, the British channels are not on the list.

The omission of these channels has prompted the existing community television provider – Mayo Community Television Ltd – to stress that it can only survive if it receives the support of homeowners across the county. The voluntary company has permission to broadcast the British channels.

Saorview, on the other hand, is currently running on a trial basis, providing RTÉ One, RTÉ Two, TV3, TG4 and RTÉ News Now. A number of radio services are also available.

According to the company’s website, more channels, services and enhancements will follow as part of the full launch of the Saorview service in spring 2011.

However, when contacted by the Western People, a spokesperson confirmed that there are currently no plans to carry the UK services on the Saorview platform.

Meanwhile, a spokesperson for Mayo Community Television Ltd has told this newspaper that many householders have wrong information and are choosing not to sign up with the company this year.

“The directors of Mayo Community Television Ltd are committed to providing this service, which has been available in the West for over 30 years, provided the public continued to support the service,” said the spokesperson.

“The annual contribution for the service of €75 will not be increased and will continue to be collected retrospectively. The collection for the year 2009 is now underway and it is important that people maintain their support, if the service is to continue. There is no truth in the suggestion that the company is finished,” he stressed.

The spokesperson pointed out that no provision is being made for retransmission of the British television channels by Saorview. “Therefore, people who wish to receive the British channels must continue with the service provided by the company or pay the much greater cost of the satellite or pay-per-view digital services.”

The spokesperson said Mayo Community TV will continue for as long as it is financially viable.

“The directors have to keep the finances under continual review to ensure that the company can meet all its outgoings, especially the very high electricity charges for its eight transmitters.”

People who wish to make their contributions directly can continue to send them to Padraig Cunnane, Balla, or Joe Gibbons, Westport

Link: http://www.westernpeople.ie/news/story/?trs=eyqlidsnau

Regarding this bit:

or pay the much greater cost of the satellite or pay-per-view digital services

Pay per view services, yes, an ongoing cost. But "much greater cost of the satellite" is a bit misleading especially if its only FTA stations you want. An initial cost for purchase and installation and thats it.

watty

I presume all the UK channels on the "deflector" are FTA on Satellite.
Once off cost.

Mayo Exile

Originally posted by Watty: I presume all the UK channels on the "deflector" are FTA on Satellite.
Once off cost.

Yes. In the Westport area they would be BBC 1/2, UTV and CH4. Use Sky boxes as source. Broadcast in 4:3. No teletext.

breathn

I know by asking 3 questions in 1 post it's likely that nobody will answer any of them but would love to know if someone could shed light on any of them:


Is it allowed for a deflector to use a source that's not from a FTA terrestrial signal? (I.e. using any sort of satellite stream like sky or freesat)

Is it allowed by Sky rules that their digibox or viewing-card protected channels like RTE are used for the rebroadcasting like is happening here?

Is it allowed that the spectrum [allocated for the deflector to carry the channels] is used to ever transmit anything OTHER than what they're supposed to? (e.g. displaying the Sky Guide for a week because of some fault, or a sky "Insert your viewing card" screen for a weekend, or "Sky welcome channel 999" for a fortnight instead of Channel4)

The Cush

breathn wrote: »

I know by asking 3 questions in 1 post it's likely that nobody will answer any of them but would love to know if someone could shed light on any of them:


Is it allowed for a deflector to use a source that's not from a FTA terrestrial signal? (I.e. using any sort of satellite stream like sky or freesat)

Is it allowed by Sky rules that their digibox or viewing-card protected channels like RTE are used for the rebroadcasting like is happening here?

Is it allowed that the spectrum [allocated for the deflector to carry the channels] is used to ever transmit anything OTHER than what they're supposed to? (e.g. displaying the Sky Guide for a week because of some fault, or a sky "Insert your viewing card" screen for a weekend, or "Sky welcome channel 999" for a fortnight instead of Channel4)

Don't know the specific answers to your questions but this is a link to the current deflector regulations, you may find an answer there - http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/SI445of2009.pdf.

If you have a problem with a local deflector operation why not install your own satellite dish and get the deflector channels plus many more for free.

breathn

The Cush wrote: »

Don't know the specific answers to your questions but this is a link to the current deflector regulations, you may find an answer there - http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/SI445of2009.pdf.

If you have a problem with a local deflector operation why not install your own satellite dish and get the deflector channels plus many more for free.

Thanks for the link!!!!! I'll have a good read of that.

We already have freesat which we got because this crowd were broadcasting sky guide for 3 weeks instead of channel 4. And we had no UTV for over a month with "insert viewing card".

Will get a DTT stick from the bargain alerts soon to see if I can pick up saorview.


I really want to see if what they are doing is legal though, those questions are my gut feeling on some things that don't feel right.

Antenna

breathn wrote: »

this crowd were broadcasting sky guide for 3 weeks instead of channel 4. And we had no UTV for over a month with "insert viewing card".

Did you not try contacting the operators when this happened, to bring it to their attention?

The same thing you described (Sky menus appearing due to a fault) has also happened on RTE relays that were either temporarily or ongoing, using satellite as signal source, though it was quickly fixed (within hours) in case I heard of.

Mayo Exile wrote: »

.. No teletext.

C4 should have teletext (it has a 'VBI' teletext service on satellite, though just seems to be horseracing etc) , whilst the other 3 should have P888 subtitles? do they?

watty

Bargain alerts is Not best place for a DTT stick.

Either high street shop or eBay. But do some research.

Dual Tuner DTT stick recommended. as there will be more than one Multiplex soon.

Make sure it has a normal aerial socket. Like this has http://www.techtir.ie/reviews/mobidtv-dual-usb-dtt

Most have a miniature connector.

If Apple OS X or Linux read
http://www.techtir.ie/node/1003625
http://www.mpeg4ireland.com/saorview-dtt-on-a-pc

watty

breathn wrote: »

I know by asking 3 questions in 1 post it's likely that nobody will answer any of them but would love to know if someone could shed light on any of them:


(1) Is it allowed for a deflector to use a source that's not from a FTA terrestrial signal? (I.e. using any sort of satellite stream like sky or freesat)

(2) Is it allowed by Sky rules that their digibox or viewing-card protected channels like RTE are used for the rebroadcasting like is happening here?

(3) Is it allowed that the spectrum [allocated for the deflector to carry the channels] is used to ever transmit anything OTHER than what they're supposed to? (e.g. displaying the Sky Guide for a week because of some fault, or a sky "Insert your viewing card" screen for a weekend, or "Sky welcome channel 999" for a fortnight instead of Channel4)

(1) Yes. As long as they have the agreement of the channel. They are legally obliged to pay a royalty. Most FTA channels are NOT FTC (Free To Carry). Even with FTC channels (DW TV, BBC World News TV) you need permission in writing. BBC1, 2, 3, 4, ITV, C4 etc are NOT FTC.

(2) Only if you pay a special commercial (expensive) rate. It's against T&C on a domestic account. It's Theft of Service if you use Domestic Sub for Re-broadcast, Hotel, Guest House or Pub.

(3) No. You may only carry the designated content/Channels. RLO TV lost Deflector licence for doing "opt outs" from C5 (Five).

breathn

Antenna wrote: »

Did you not try contacting the operators when this happened, to bring it to their attention?

They told me to my face at the front door that "Sky were always up to tricks like this by canceling their cards as a way of driving up their own sales "

They had to wait for new cards.

I possibly should have stated in my first post: The reason I'm trying to understand their business is because I do not trust a single thing they tell me.

breathn

watty wrote: »

(1) Yes. As long as they have the agreement of the channel. They are legally obliged to pay a royalty. Most FTA channels are NOT FTC (Free To Carry). Even with FTC channels (DW TV, BBC World News TV) you need permission in writing. BBC1, 2, 3, 4, ITV, C4 etc are NOT FTC.

(2) Only if you pay a special commercial (expensive) rate. It's against T&C on a domestic account. It's Theft of Service if you use Domestic Sub for Re-broadcast, Hotel, Guest House or Pub.

(3) No. You may only carry the designated content/Channels. RLO TV lost Deflector licence for doing "opt outs" from C5 (Five).

Big big big thanks for that information!

3 is really interesting to me, because for weeks we had the welcome to sky 999 (or 888 or something) channel broadcasting something on a loop. It was telling me about movie channels and other stuff non stop. I figured comreg allocated their spectrum for some content and by not showing it it was dodgy.

Sky Guide was just there playing music at me for a few weeks. UTV had been missing for weeks too with insert viewing card.

Literally months of sky material had been broadcast on several frequencies designated for the licensed content. This has been over the last 18 months.


Also, I'm not in The Mullet but I think it's "Mayo community television" that we pay

Antenna

breathn wrote: »

viewing-card protected channels like RTE are used for the rebroadcasting like is happening here?

The only people that I know of doing this anytime recently were RTE themselves, with SKy having been used as a source at UHF relays.

breathn wrote: »

Big big big thanks for that information!

3 is really interesting to me, because for weeks we had the welcome to sky 999 (or 888 or something) channel broadcasting something on a loop. It was telling me about movie channels and other stuff non stop. I figured comreg allocated their spectrum for some content and by not showing it it was dodgy.

Sky Guide was just there playing music at me for a few weeks. UTV had been missing for weeks too with insert viewing card.

Literally months of sky material had been broadcast on several frequencies designated for the licensed content. This has been over the last 18 months.


Also, I'm not in The Mullet but I think it's "Mayo community television" that we pay

There is no one forcing you to pay them anything, (if you really did) if you feel this bad about them, or otherwise!

The deflector licenses don't specify what specific channels are relayed? They don't have to be of the traditional 4 UK ones, could be from anywhere in the EU if there is agreement.


BBc1,2,itv,c4 are all FTA for ages, so a skybox is not required to receive them anymore.
What is described above must have happened years ago?
A FTA box uses less electricity than a skybox, and many/most can be set to start up on a particular channel after a powercut.


What deflector are you receiving from if its not 'Belmullet' or where is your aerial aimed at?

breathn

Antenna wrote: »

The only people that I know of doing this anytime recently were RTE themselves, with SKy having been used as a source at UHF relays.



There is no one forcing you to pay them anything, (if you really did) if you feel this bad about them, or otherwise!

The deflector licenses don't specify what specific channels are relayed?

BBc1,2,itv,c4 are all FTA, so a skybox is not required to receive them anymore.
What is described above must have happened years ago?
A FTA box uses less electricity than a skybox, and many/most can be set to start up on a particular channel after a powercut.

Hey Antenna,
Interesting tone you're using there.

Yes, yes I REALLY did pay them. I'm not sure what was in my previous posts to lead you to find my post suspicious.

I don't know if the deflector licenses specify what specific channels are relayed. I would have thought comreg regulate that. Can anyone provide any insight into this? Watty?

I also did not know RTE were using SKY as UHF relays. I don't know where in the UHF/VHF world their frequencies lie. In fact this really does surprise me. It could be possible MCTV were using the RTE-via-sky upstream. But there was a watermark in some (all?) of the channels that I should post in a chque or something. But they told me to my face it was Sky canceling their cards. Again you don't have to believe I was told that. I also don't have to believe what you say about RTE broadcasting using Sky equipment.


What happened above did not happen years ago. UTV was telling me to insert a Sky viewing card just a few months ago too.

Antenna

breathn , do you know the loaction of the deflector transmitter you are receiveing from, or if not, where is your aerial for it aimed?

breathn wrote: »

I also don't have to believe what you say about RTE broadcasting using Sky equipment.

This has been the case at dozens of RTE relay transmitters in the South/South West and Northwest of the country where sky were used to fed the transmitters. this was to maintain reception to as many people as possible during low power and outages at major 'parent' transmitters due to replacement mast works. Some RTE/Tg4transmitters have this permanently.

It is not just me saying it, there has been many other posts here from others on this board about this as well

breathn wrote: »

.

I don't know if the deflector licenses specify what specific channels are relayed.

There are no 'must carry' stations on deflectors. They could have had TVE1 instead of BBC1 if there was agreement or any other EU TV stations.
On cable and digital MMD- there are must carry stations which are RTE1,2,TG4,TV3. The 4 traditional UK ones aren't included. Analogue MMDs had just one 'must-carry' station - TV3

I fully agree the demand for 'deflectors' nowadays is not what it once was - but it has to be said that elderly people and the poor would be still big users of these services.

watty

Deflectors can carry any channel
With prior agreement of Comreg & The Channel. Possibly if Community DTT in the future, BAI. But BAI didn't exist.

Anyone can use Sky boxes and RTE, UPC (chorus and NTL in past) and other deflector operators have. But NOT using viewing card without special commercial payment & agreement with Sky.

Likely the ITV / BBC sky boxes put in proir to FTA and never replaced.

Elderly and poor people can manage DTT/Satellite fine. I know plenty people in 80s with Freesat or Sky.

There is going to be DTT box subsidies.