Issues facing the Irish in Australia

duckygalway

I'm doing some research for a TV piece on the issues facing the Irish in Australia (and New Zealand) and trying to pull together a few stories...

What do you feel are the main issues around immigration, Visas and other things affecting the Irish while here?

It would be good to hear a variety of stories etc.

All input welcome!

hussey

I'm locking this for now, you can mail the mods and ask permission, and clarify what you mean 'getting around them'

This is sounds like a 'talk about illegal visa's' to me - You can clairify in a PM

hussey

Hi I'm opening this back up, but there is to be zero talk of any illegal visa options, any talk and this will be locked

The OP has mailed me an clairified what he is looking for ...

Diddler82

hussey wrote: »

The OP has mailed me an clairified what he is looking for ...

I think the OP needs to clarify to the rest of us exactly what they are looking for now though.

The first post seems really doesn't explain what they are looking for to quote:

What do you feel are the main issues around immigration, Visas and other things affecting the Irish while here?

The simple answer is getting the Visa and them not being long enough.

For someone looking to put some info together fora TV show, not much effort has gone into research considering all you have to do is read through the last 2/3 pages for stories of people here.

kdevitt

Getting the visa was a doddle for me, so didn't find it an issue. Price of rent is silly money, same goes for motoring.

Am going to find it awkward to get a passport for my kid when they're born - am on a 457 and they're not entitled to an aussie passport, so thats my main concern at the moment.

duckygalway

Apologies, when I posted the thread I had just got the brief and thought it best to leave it wide open. So, to add a bit more focus (and if there's anything I've left out feel free to mention it)

How do the Irish feel about their prospects at home? How tuned in they are
to what's going on.

What are the main difficulties they face in getting a visa. If there an issue discussing this maybe PM me? Just trying to find out what lengths people are going to.

Are there Irish here that feel exploited? Unfair conditions attached to a sponsorship?

With an upcoming election how do they feel about not having a vote/say in the country's future (particularly new arrivals and those that contributed to the boomtime).

Looking at life down under for Irish people;
-What makes it so much more appealing than home?
-How do they find they are treated by Australians?
-The Irish community... what's here (GAA, community groups, etc)

Again any suggestions welcome.

Thanks!

myhorse

duckygalway wrote: »

How do the Irish feel about their prospects at home? How tuned in they are
to what's going on.

I started a thread recently that touched on this. I am keeping very up to date with what is happening. While there will be exceptions I think that the majority of people will be facing a very uncertain, very tough and desheartening short to medium future in Ireland. I would not be returning anytime soon (I have duel citizenship) as I have employment and prospects here and none of that in Ireland.

duckygalway wrote: »

What are the main difficulties they face in getting a visa. If there an issue discussing this maybe PM me? Just trying to find out what lengths people are going to.

Way back in the day I applied for my independent residency from Ireland after doing a whv afew years previous to applying. It was and is the best visa to go for. From start to finish it took just north of two years. Reality is it is not too much different today with the exception of certain skills coming off the list. However times line from start to finish are not to far apart. It would have been easier to go for sponsorship etc but I knew the visa I wanted and went for it. Most I hear now adays seem to think they are entitled to a visa right now for no particular reason except that they want one and shouldnt have to wait etc. Suck it up kids we have all been there.

duckygalway wrote: »

Are there Irish here that feel exploited? Unfair conditions attached to a sponsorship?

You cannot feel exploited on a sponsored visa. You have to suck it up. You want to be in the country and thats the visa you went for and you have to roll with the punches. If you want security go for an independant visa. There can not be a sense of entitlement on sponsorship as the employer is doing YOU the favour by sponsoring you. they have a pool of thousands to choose from and you are bloody lucky they chose you. If your unhappy (a) dont accept sponsorship (b) resign and hop on the plane. Sorry if this is harsh but you can go back to Ireland whenever you want - if you are sponsored and sought sponsorship you are being done a massive turn. One of the things that p*ssed me off with the whole celtic tiger generation was this sense of entitlement. Our forefathers faced unbelievable harshship when they took the boat but they got on with the job.

duckygalway wrote: »

With an upcoming election how do they feel about not having a vote/say in the country's future (particularly new arrivals and those that contributed to the boomtime).

An absolute discrace. As also done recently prisoners can vote in Ireland but we cant as we are offshore. Dreadful.

duckygalway wrote: »

Looking at life down under for Irish people;
-How do they find they are treated by Australians?

Give as good as you get - they will respect that. Also get out of your comfort zone, leave the gaa jersey at home (ie leave the small parish attitude at home) and talk up Aus and you wont go wrong

duckygalway wrote: »

-The Irish community... what's here (GAA, community groups, etc)

the Irish groups are out there big time. I keep away from them. Join a surf club, touch rugby team, sports club, local history group - what ever - you are in Aus be Aus. You will meet people who will be able to open more doors for you and respect you more than hanging around with other Irish far from home ever will. Dont get me wrong I am not bad mouthing my fellow country men and women but its the locals you want to be involved with. It can and will be tough at the start but long term the rewards are huge. The ones I know (and I have been around awhile) that really did well here are the ones who threw themselves in to Aus. Never forgot their roots but adapted to their new home and accepted that its no use trying to create a mini Ireland here (I think thats why poms dont get on as well here as the Irish - they are continually complaining ...but in england we etc etc and are trying to create a little engurrrrland).

Vorsprung

I'd like to think I'm fairly well up to date with things at home, I talk to the family most weeks, I'm still in regular contact with the lads at home and I read the paper at home every day. And After Hours - seems to capture the mood of the nation fairly well!

I've got got good prospects - I came over on a 457 visa and I'm eligible for PR now, though I'm going to hold off until February when myself and the GF have been living together for a year, so she can go defacto on it. Work has said that they'll sponsor the PR visa, which is pretty sweet/jammy. I have no conditions attached to my visa, my job is a good one and I'm already on a path that secures career progression and would allow me to get senior jobs at home. I do have the option of returning home at pretty much any time I choose, but the GF doesn't. In any case, I'm enjoying it and don't plan on going home for about 2-3 years at least.

I am disappointed that I won't get to vote in the election, but I don't pay taxes at home at the moment so I don't feel particularly entitled to vote.

Lifestyle wise here, I've got plenty of mates who are locals, and a lot of ex-pat mates, mostly from the UK. I'm not really in with the whole Irish scene here. There's an Irish pub 10 mins walk from where I live, I've been there once!

The Aussie

myhorse wrote: »

You cannot feel exploited on a sponsored visa. You have to suck it up. You want to be in the country and thats the visa you went for and you have to roll with the punches. If you want security go for an independant visa. There can not be a sense of entitlement on sponsorship as the employer is doing YOU the favour by sponsoring you. they have a pool of thousands to choose from and you are bloody lucky they chose you. If your unhappy (a) dont accept sponsorship (b) resign and hop on the plane. Sorry if this is harsh but you can go back to Ireland whenever you want - if you are sponsored and sought sponsorship you are being done a massive turn. One of the things that p*ssed me off with the whole celtic tiger generation was this sense of entitlement. Our forefathers faced unbelievable harshship when they took the boat but they got on with the job.

On a sidenote, That rates as one of the best answers ive seen on this forum.

csm

The Aussie wrote: »

On a sidenote, That rates as one of the best answers ive seen on this forum.

Couldn't agree less.

The employer is not necessarily doing you a favour and does not have thousands of applicants to choose from. If they did, why would they choose to employ someone living on the other side of the world rather than employ someone living in their area? Reasons as to why they sponsor you: 1) you have proven yourself as a good employee on another visa (eg WHV) 2) you have skills/experience that they have difficulty locating elsewhere 3) they get to pay you less than an Australian with equal skills/experience 4) they get to employ you on a more temporary basis than an Australian with equal skills/experience.

The latter two might be considered exploitation but I would agree that if you don't like it, work for someone else. Doesn't mean that all sponsored visas should come with obsequiance from the employee and gratitude every day purely for the opportunity to graft a few hours for the boss. The employee is also providing a service for the employer.

Father Damo

duckygalway wrote: »

How do the Irish feel about their prospects at home?

Ive been here 2 years now and have known 5 people who permanently returned home. Says it all really.

What are the main difficulties they face in getting a visa. If there an issue discussing this maybe PM me? Just trying to find out what lengths people are going to.

A choice between lying on their app or chancing their arm on dodgy unrelated work down the sticks would be the main one. The rule would be more fair if there was actually some degree of industry regulation or assistance available. (and that Harvest Trail line is a load of ****e, before anyone asks). It is completely unfair to ask people to risk losing an awful amount of money gambling on this work.

With an upcoming election how do they feel about not having a vote/say in the country's future (particularly new arrivals and those that contributed to the boomtime).

Dont really care. I dont even entirely blame the gov, from reading the After Hours forum there is a serious lack of self responsibility back home that people need to wake up to.

Looking at life down under for Irish people;
-What makes it so much more appealing than home?
-How do they find they are treated by Australians?
-The Irish community... what's here (GAA, community groups, etc)

Again any suggestions welcome.

Thanks!

Appealing- weather, the fact the cost of living here is at most 70% of Ireland in the boom time. Always something to do. The fact you can go walk into a pub or club at 5am and drink til after the sun comes up.

the Irish groups are out there big time. I keep away from them. Join a surf club, touch rugby team, sports club, local history group - what ever - you are in Aus be Aus. You will meet people who will be able to open more doors for you and respect you more than hanging around with other Irish far from home ever will. Dont get me wrong I am not bad mouthing my fellow country men and women but its the locals you want to be involved with. It can and will be tough at the start but long term the rewards are huge. The ones I know (and I have been around awhile) that really did well here are the ones who threw themselves in to Aus. Never forgot their roots but adapted to their new home and accepted that its no use trying to create a mini Ireland here (I think thats why poms dont get on as well here as the Irish - they are continually complaining ...but in england we etc etc and are trying to create a little engurrrrland).

One thing that does annoy me is this crap about having to mix with Aussies. They just dont go to pubs outside their area, certainly not straight after work (most of them regard bars as too expensive), so how can you exactly? Its hard to find decent live bands outside of Irish bars anyway (apart from Newtown, apparently), and the only "Aussie" bars I can think of with decent atmosphere and crowds on a Sunday are in Coogee, most of the ones in the city are dead and have no music. They might be a bit pricey but on a Sunday theres sod all places interesting to drink in that arent Irish. Most Irish would work with relatively few Aussies anyway, so its hard to meet them.

myhorse

Father Damo wrote: »

One thing that does annoy me is this crap about having to mix with Aussies. They just dont go to pubs outside their area, certainly not straight after work (most of them regard bars as too expensive), so how can you exactly? Its hard to find decent live bands outside of Irish bars anyway (apart from Newtown, apparently), and the only "Aussie" bars I can think of with decent atmosphere and crowds on a Sunday are in Coogee, most of the ones in the city are dead and have no music. They might be a bit pricey but on a Sunday theres sod all places interesting to drink in that arent Irish. Most Irish would work with relatively few Aussies anyway, so its hard to meet them.

:rolleyes:
You are kidding right?
Seriously?

I say join a surf club, touch footy team, local group whatever and you are talking about pub, pub, pub?

Enjoy Australia there's always a pub open somewhere.....

But you were kidding right?
:rolleyes:

ballooba

Father Damo wrote: »

One thing that does annoy me is this crap about having to mix with Aussies. They just dont go to pubs...

An idea might be to expand your horizons in life beyond alcohol and pubs. I'm just saying like.;)

mandrake04

Father Damo wrote: »

One thing that does annoy me is this crap about having to mix with Aussies. They just dont go to pubs outside their area, certainly not straight after work

Where is your evidence to back this up? I go to the pub with a few of my Aussie work colleagues a couple of times a week after work and especially beer-o-clock on a Friday

We only have 1 or 2 schooners because we are all driving and outside our areas.

cormaclynch

Father Damo wrote: »

. Most Irish would work with relatively few Aussies anyway, so its hard to meet them.

...Couldn't agree less. Pretty much disagree with everything in that post

Rebel Boy

duckygalway wrote: »

Apologies, when I posted the thread I had just got the brief and thought it best to leave it wide open. So, to add a bit more focus (and if there's anything I've left out feel free to mention it)

How do the Irish feel about their prospects at home? How tuned in they are
to what's going on.

What are the main difficulties they face in getting a visa. If there an issue discussing this maybe PM me? Just trying to find out what lengths people are going to.

Are there Irish here that feel exploited? Unfair conditions attached to a sponsorship?

With an upcoming election how do they feel about not having a vote/say in the country's future (particularly new arrivals and those that contributed to the boomtime).

Looking at life down under for Irish people;
-What makes it so much more appealing than home?
-How do they find they are treated by Australians?
-The Irish community... what's here (GAA, community groups, etc)

Again any suggestions welcome.

Thanks!

In general I think thw Australians are grand to get on with. Some are rude, which you'll get in most countries anyways, some are very friendly. All depends tbh.

Number 5

kdevitt wrote: »

Getting the visa was a doddle for me, so didn't find it an issue. Price of rent is silly money, same goes for motoring.

Am going to find it awkward to get a passport for my kid when they're born - am on a 457 and they're not entitled to an aussie passport, so thats my main concern at the moment.

This isn't really a great concern to be honest. All you have to do is add them to your 457 Visa.

kdevitt

Number 5 wrote: »

This isn't really a great concern to be honest. All you have to do is add them to your 457 Visa.

My 457 isn't really much use when I'm travelling home with the child to Ireland though!

Number 5

Are you travelling back home to Ireland for good or just a holiday? Sorry it wasn't really clear in your post.

If on a holiday then there is no problem. But if permanent well then the baby will have an Irish Passport.

kdevitt

Holiday

I might be missing something, but a kid can't travel on their parents passport - so unless I do manage to get one sorted (which I will, it just seems to be a case of having to jump through several awkward hoops), they can't leave Australia or enter Ireland and vice versa.

Number 5

Ok Crossed wires there for a second. You have to apply for an irish passport, no dramas there but you also need to put your child on our 457 Visa as if applying for residency down the line (which I assume you may) it makes things so much easier and little or no paperwork involved.

Friends of ours were in the same situation as you and getting their child organised with the passport (irish) was hassle free.

Good luck with it

ambasite

kdevitt wrote: »

Holiday

I might be missing something, but a kid can't travel on their parents passport - so unless I do manage to get one sorted (which I will, it just seems to be a case of having to jump through several awkward hoops), they can't leave Australia or enter Ireland and vice versa.

it took 10 weeks to process Irish passport for our kid born here in June.

ambasite

myhorse wrote: »

leave the gaa jersey at home (ie leave the small parish attitude at home)....


(I think thats why poms dont get on as well here as the Irish - they are continually complaining ...but in england we etc etc and are trying to create a little engurrrrland).....

so what is it Horse? leave the GAA at home but make sure to bring that anti-British vibe? lol.

Father Damo

mandrake04 wrote: »

Where is your evidence to back this up? I go to the pub with a few of my Aussie work colleagues a couple of times a week after work and especially beer-o-clock on a Friday

We only have 1 or 2 schooners because we are all driving and outside our areas.

Most Aussies love a moan about the cost of going to the pub, whyich, of course, is a pittance compared to back home in most cases.

Couldn't agree less

You disagree that most Irish people here work primarily in the company of a heavily Irish workforce?
Really?

ambasite

Father Damo wrote: »

Most Aussies love a moan about the cost of going to the pub, whyich, of course, is a pittance compared to back home in most cases.



You disagree that most Irish people here work primarily in the company of a heavily Irish workforce?
Really?

i think the price of beer here is more expensive than at home, 500ml (pint) $10 about 7.50EUR in Chatswood, north Sydney - feel free to point me in the direction of cheaper establishments!

kdevitt

ambasite wrote: »

it took 10 weeks to process Irish passport for our kid born here in June.

I was 'reliably' informed that the forms needed to be witnessed by someone in Ireland before being processed?

ambasite wrote: »

i think the price of beer here is more expensive than at home, 500ml (pint) $10 about 7.50EUR in Chatswood, north Sydney - feel free to point me in the direction of cheaper establishments!

Agreed - drink is definitely expensive here in comparison to home. The likes of O'Reillys in Dublin were selling pints every weekday for 4EUR. Schooner of slop across the road from me here is $5.50.

ambasite

kdevitt wrote: »

I was 'reliably' informed that the forms needed to be witnessed by someone in Ireland before being processed?



Agreed - drink is definitely expensive here in comparison to home. The likes of O'Reillys in Dublin were selling pints every weekday for 4EUR. Schooner of slop across the road from me here is $5.50.

we got the forms witnessed by bank manager at local ANZ branch where we have our account, processing times might be quicker now, think there was some strike at passport office when we applied.

Mellor

ambasite wrote: »

i think the price of beer here is more expensive than at home, 500ml (pint) $10 about 7.50EUR in Chatswood, north Sydney - feel free to point me in the direction of cheaper establishments!

$10 for a pint, have you even looked in any other pub?
I think I pay like $7 in dirty's (someone can confirm after the 12 pubs of xmas)
A scooner is $4.80 in my local

kdevitt wrote: »

Agreed - drink is definitely expensive here in comparison to home. The likes of O'Reillys in Dublin were selling pints every weekday for 4EUR. Schooner of slop across the road from me here is $5.50.

But you are comparing aussie dollars with a failing euro. it makes no sense to do this and people do it all the time. You are also comparing one of the cheapest pubs in dublin.


My local is $4.80 for a scooner. Convert it to euro and then scale up to a pint it comes to about 4.40 euro, not bad imo.

If you use the exchange rate when I got here it works out as 3 euro, which is great value (and I thought it was when I got here). The prices haven't changed it either country, yet the so called value has.


Basically, Judging the value of something by converting it back to euro is retarded. Drink here is not expensive generally.

ballooba

ambasite wrote: »

it took 10 weeks to process Irish passport for our kid born here in June.

It can be quicker to get passports for other countries, so think laterally about what other possible countries (if any) yourself or the child would be eligible for a passport from.

Father Damo wrote: »

You disagree that most Irish people here work primarily in the company of a heavily Irish workforce?
Really?

From my peer group, of which none work in construction, all work predominately if not exclusively with non-Irish. I personally usually don't meet Irish people in Brisbane.

mandrake04

Father Damo wrote: »

Most Aussies love a moan about the cost of going to the pub, whyich, of course, is a pittance compared to back home in most cases

Never heard any complaints yet, I was supposed to go to the pub this afternoon after work but had to decline.... Job interview instead.

Zambia

In my office there are 770 + people and so far I have not met another Irish Person.

Maybe Im just not looking