Tenant wont move out!

odds_on

christina51 wrote: »

months to get the house back????:eek:

If the "tenant" refuses to move out (overholding) it could well drag on to six months or more, especially if the tenant decides to counter-claim, or only responds to the dispute arbitration at the last minute (but he will still owe you the rent for this period.
However, the PRTB "try" to give preference to overholding disputes!!!

adamski8

ztoical wrote: »

.

so to summarise, he has a valid contract with her but she has the right to renage on the contract also?

pcardin

christina51 wrote: »

just rang a solictor for advice,she basically said even though there is no written agreement in place,there is still a verbal agreement and i have to give him 2 months notice to leave but if he refuses then basically ill have to get a court order to get him out,sounds ridiculous to me being honest.cant believe this is happening!

Where did you get a solicitor with such a "brilliant" knowledge?! Is it one of the Bill Cullen ex-apprentices?

ztoical

adamski8 wrote: »

so to summarise, he has a valid contract with her but she has the right to renage on the contract also?

Yes the tenant has a part 4 tenancy. The OP has the right to ask him to leave for the reasons stated in my other post but must give the correct notice based on how long the tenant has been in the property. As he has been in it less then 6 months the OP needs to give notice of 28 days in writing and must include the reason in the notice.

Victor

I can't see the Garda getting involved.

Christina, there is a sample Notice of Termination here: http://public.prtb.ie/act.htm

jenny jinks wrote: »

That solicitor knows nothing! If it is residential it must go to the PRTB.

Evictions are handled by the courts, not the PRTB.

paky wrote: »

you need to give him at least 28 days notice whether he has paid rent or not. after that he can be removed by the police with the eviction notice you gave him of course

Courts issue Evictions Orders. Landlords can only issue a Notice of Termination.Only a Eviction Order can be acted on.

paky wrote: »

bluewolf wrote: »

as i said, it doesnt apply in this case

all OP has to do is give 28 days' notice NOW and kick them out at the end of Dec

why doesnt it apply?

No reason needs to given in the first 6 months of a Part 4 tenancy (which this appears to be).

Susie_Q wrote: »

paky wrote: »

this is basic contract law.
offer
consideration
acceptance

Again, please post links to Irish legislation that you believe gives this guy legal basis for a court case.

While I don't see how the tenant would be entitled to compensation, he would appear to have a Part 4 tenancy. the tenant offered to take hte property, the landlord accepted and the consideration is the rent that will be paid next month. Rent-free periods are not unheard of.

ztoical

Victor wrote: »

No reason needs to given in the first 6 months of a Part 4 tenancy (which this appears to be).

Nice to learn something new....so just written notice of 28 days and hope he doesn't decide to dig his heels in at the end otherwise it will drag on and on....

jenny jinks

Victor wrote: »

I can't see the Garda getting involved.

Evictions are handled by the courts, not the PRTB.
.

The courts only enforce determinations of the PRTB. The courts cannot deal with any matter capable of being referred to the PRTB.

RESIDENTIAL TENANCIES ACT 2004

182.—(1) On and from the commencement of Part 6, proceedings may not be instituted in any court in respect of a dispute that may be referred to the Board for resolution under that Part unless one or more of the following reliefs is being claimed in the proceedings—
(a) damages of an amount of more than €20,000,
(b) recovery of arrears of rent or other charges, or both, due under a tenancy of an amount, or an aggregate amount, of more than €60,000 or such lesser amount as would be applicable in the circumstances concerned by virtue of section 115 (3)(b) or (c)(ii).
(2) In this section “dispute” has the same meaning as it has in Part 6.

Victor

flutered wrote: »

unfortunatly tenants have more rights than landlords, as i found out last spring to my cost, the only way of getting rid of an unwelcome tenant is through unlawful means, i am in no way condoning the following, remove the main fuse on the metre, lift the manhole cover and block the pipe with an item of clothing shoved far back so as it will not show.

Advocating illegal evictions is not acceptable.

Flooding your own property with sewage is less than advisable also.

---

adamski8 wrote:

christina51 wrote: »

really?but i really tought a verbal agreement wouldnt stand up in court?

i presume thats only if you deny it?!!

Im not saying i know much about law but can someone tell me why the verbal agreement isn't valid?
He hasnt paid rent/deposit but that was agreed upon.

The general problem is proving the verbal agreement. However, there is more than just verbal agreement here, as you also have behavious - the handing over of keys and the tenant moving in. Some specific contracts need to be in writing, e.g. the sale of land.

months to get the house back????

I think that might be overstating things, but it is a risk.

adamski8 wrote:

so to summarise, he has a valid contract with her but she has the right to renage on the contract also?

Yes, it would appear to be a valid contract, but renege might be the wrong word - ther eis an in-built mechanism for ending the contract by giving notice, just like you can end your contract with your phone company by giving notice.

pcardin wrote:

Where did you get a solicitor with such a "brilliant" knowledge?! Is it one of the Bill Cullen ex-apprentices?

Less hyperbole please - the solicitor was talking off the top of their head and no doubt would have checked the relevant legislation before taking any action.

yankinlk

christina51 wrote: »

months to get the house back????:eek:

Christina!
Please stop posting/reading this thread. You have your answer from threshold. Give the guy a registered letter stating the 28 days notice. Then sit back and wait for the 28 days to expire. NO FURTHER CONTACT NEEDED. Relax, enjoy Christmas, forget about your house.

You are stuck now, there is no shortcut, there is no easier alternative. You have done ALL the wrong things that a part-time landlord does, all in one go. This guy rightly sees a sucker, and will milk it for all its worth. Everytime you meet him and open your mouth you make it more obvious to him you have no idea what you are doing.

Dont imagine the worst case scenario that is being painted here - just act on the REALITY. If you have not given him a letter already then you are just extending the problem day by day by day. DO NOT THREATEN him in the letter. PM me if you want a sample letter. It should be matter of fact, clearly outlining the dates and issues. When he moved in, the lack of any rent payment/deposit and the 28 day notice to evict. That is all - no need to threaten next steps.

In an ideal situation if you had a deposit, you could offer it back to get him out earlier than 28 days - but since you dont, the ball is entirely in his court.

After you give the letter to him and after you wait 27 days - come back to this thread and let us know firstly what you got for xmas, and second what your next step should be IF he is still in the house.

(if you feel guilt about kicking him out and can afford a LONGER eviction notice period, that is OK)

40040D

christina51 wrote: »

i really dont want to throw him out on the street,...,but now hes threatening me with solictor

What an ungrateful person. Your tenant should have enough cop-on to either pay up or get out,

On the otherside of things this person is planning on having kids !? He can't even pay his rent ! :eek:

paky

yankinlk wrote: »

Christina!
Please stop posting/reading this thread. You have your answer from threshold. Give the guy a registered letter stating the 28 days notice. Then sit back and wait for the 28 days to expire. NO FURTHER CONTACT NEEDED. Relax, enjoy Christmas, forget about your house.

You are stuck now, there is no shortcut, there is no easier alternative. You have done ALL the wrong things that a part-time landlord does, all in one go. This guy rightly sees a sucker, and will milk it for all its worth. Everytime you meet him and open your mouth you make it more obvious to him you have no idea what you are doing.

Please tell me how you came to that conclusion?

yankinlk wrote: »

Dont imagine the worst case scenario that is being painted here - just act on the REALITY. If you have not given him a letter already then you are just extending the problem day by day by day. DO NOT THREATEN him in the letter. PM me if you want a sample letter. It should be matter of fact, clearly outlining the dates and issues. When he moved in, the lack of any rent payment/deposit and the 28 day notice to evict. That is all - no need to threaten next steps.

In an ideal situation if you had a deposit, you could offer it back to get him out earlier than 28 days - but since you dont, the ball is entirely in his court.

After you give the letter to him and after you wait 27 days - come back to this thread and let us know firstly what you got for xmas, and second what your next step should be IF he is still in the house.

(if you feel guilt about kicking him out and can afford a LONGER eviction notice period, that is OK)

listermint

paky wrote: »

whats a mentalist mate?

it doesnt matter who owns the house. there was a contract made between the landlord and tenant. thats the issue here not the ownership of the house.

A mentalist is a person who possesses or claims to posses higher mental ability generally in the physic domain. Also used for entertaining purposes. To answer your post. Appreciate the warning for 'inappropriate language though'. All my posts were constructive. Thank you.

paky

listermint wrote: »

A mentalist is a person who possesses or claims to posses higher mental ability generally in the physic domain. Also used for entertaining purposes. To answer your post. Appreciate the warning for 'inappropriate language though'. All my posts were constructive. Thank you.

whatever you think yourself

The_Conductor

Guys- blanket warning here. Next off-topic or post not pertinent to the OP's query, gets a posting holiday.

Regards,

SMcCarrick

angelfire9

Guys can I ask something here just PURELY out of curiousity
I have read the thread basically cos I was bored and I freely admit I know NOTHING about the law in relation to leases etc
BUT

Can the landlady move into the house while the tenant is there or does he have the right to stop her from doing that??
If there is no lease then surely she can do with as she wishes as regards the extra bedrooms in the house (hope that makes sense)

(not withstanding the fact that the tenant appears to be psycho)

The_Conductor

angelfire9 wrote: »

Can the landlady move into the house while the tenant is there or does he have the right to stop her from doing that??
If there is no lease then surely she can do with as she wishes as regards the extra bedrooms in the house (hope that makes sense)

(not withstanding the fact that the tenant appears to be psycho)

Depends on whether the 'tenant' is renting a room in the house, or the whole house. If the tenant is renting the house- then the landlord has no right to impose any other tenants (or his or herself) on the tenant. If the tenant is renting a bedroom in the property- then the landlord can add or remove other people from the property at will.

It all depends on whether the tenant has a reasonable expectation of sole occupancy, or not.

angelfire9

smccarrick wrote: »

Depends on whether the 'tenant' is renting a room in the house, or the whole house. If the tenant is renting the house- then the landlord has no right to impose any other tenants (or his or herself) on the tenant. If the tenant is renting a bedroom in the property- then the landlord can add or remove other people from the property at will.

It all depends on whether the tenant has a reasonable expectation of sole occupancy, or not.

I guess that makes sense
Thanks

The law really is an ass
:rolleyes:

hohojojo

sorry to hear

but surely the deposite you didn't take is the compensation he is looking for,

just give till the date you told and call the guards

hope thing go better

Graces7

Christina; you did such a generous thing letting this man move in rent free until the end of December. You knew he had no money and was in a fix; from the little you have said, it seems he has maybe been thrown out by his wife and had to leave his children?

A stressful time that you so kindly helped alleviate. He must have been so grateful to you for that safe place.

And then suddenly? You demand back what you had given?

If he has no money then he does risk being made totally homeless. Small wonder he is reacting as he is. He seems to have lost home, wife,kids and thought he had respite.

We had something similar done to us early this year; the owner of the house we were renting with a fixed term lease, suddenly demanded it back as his circumstances had changed. The stress of that time is something we will never forget.

Others have explained the legal situation clearly. That is the way for you to go.

Graces7

smccarrick wrote: »

Do this- and regardless of whether they are squatting, unlawful tenants, purveyors of weapons of mass destruction- whatever, you will find yourself on the end of a judgement far exceeding any rent that you may be due. Yes, its unfair as hell- but unless you stick to the letter of the law- you will be the one who gets dragged up in court and will be taken for a ride.

There is a growing problem with tenants who know they can act the maggot and get away with it for protracted periods of time. Even if they don't pay a red cent in rent- it can take over a year to exhaust all their options and get them out- meanwhile you've had 12k of mortgage payments- aside from the fact that it may be your only abode and you need it for personal use.......

Yes, there was a massive problem with cowboy landlords in the past- however the pendulum has now swung firmly in the opposite direction- and we are now blighted with numerous instances of cowboy tenants......

At the risk of being banned? As a tenant I find this offensive to say the least, and would like to see facts and figures. If you look at the dispute resolutions on the PTRB site? There is no favouritism shown to tenants over landlords.

( Not sure of the protocol of reporting a mod's; post either... )

lollipopcailin

Unfotuntely, I have to agree that the law can be in the wrong. We had a very bad experience several years back. We rented our house, with a legal rental agreement signed by both paries and solicitors. After a couple of months the tenants stopped paying the rent. We went back to our solicitor and on to other solicitors to no avail. Basically, even though we gave written notice of 28days, accepted via signed mail and per the law, they would not budge, unless we gave them back their deposit (by now they owed us four times their deposit.

After about six months we were told that to bring them to court would cost up to EUR 6000, which we could not afford and still they may refuse to leave and nothing could be done. The Garda will not / can not get involved, we tried this too. Eventually we took some 'good' advice and agreed a date to refund their deposit and they would move out the same day. I arrived at the door with a cheque for them which they took. They agreed to be out that evening by 6pm. We waited around the corner and the minute they were gone we went in and changed the locks. They had destroyed the inside of the house.

Surprise, surprise they had organised to rent another property through a local agent. I found this out and contacted this agent and told him what they had done. He said it wasn't his problem and still rented someones else's home to them and did not tell them poor owners. The only good thing that came from this was the phone call I got from them 'complaining' that the cheque I had given them had bounced. Oh dear. The moral of the story is, it's very tough being a land lord. Legal document or not, you cannot put tenants out. So Good Luck OP and I really hope you get a good ending.

stephendevlin

smccarrick wrote: »

Next person who decides they're being smart getting digs in at other posters under the radar, gets a posting holiday from the forum.

Somewhere hot I hope ha ha

D3PO

Graces7 wrote: »

At the risk of being banned? As a tenant I find this offensive to say the least,

yeah because the post was directed at you specifically :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

djimi

Graces7 wrote: »

Christina; you did such a generous thing letting this man move in rent free until the end of December. You knew he had no money and was in a fix; from the little you have said, it seems he has maybe been thrown out by his wife and had to leave his children?

A stressful time that you so kindly helped alleviate. He must have been so grateful to you for that safe place.

And then suddenly? You demand back what you had given?

If he has no money then he does risk being made totally homeless. Small wonder he is reacting as he is. He seems to have lost home, wife,kids and thought he had respite.

We had something similar done to us early this year; the owner of the house we were renting with a fixed term lease, suddenly demanded it back as his circumstances had changed. The stress of that time is something we will never forget.

Others have explained the legal situation clearly. That is the way for you to go.

He really doesnt tho. She has said that he can stay until mid January, and if he could afford to pay her the rent in December like he said then he can afford to get somewhere else in January. Unless he cant afford to pay in December in which case she is as well shut of him now. The longer he stays the harder he will be to get rid of, and while charity and compasion may be noble, neither pay the mortgage which is the harsh reality of the situation.

the_syco

christina51 wrote: »

now hes threatening me with solictor saying he has to be compensated because he has nowhere else to go.

So... he has no money to rent, but money for a solicitor? Also, I'd wonder why he got kicked out of his last place. Try to find out from your mutual friend why he needed the house in the first place?

christina51 wrote: »

part of me just feels so guilty what with it coming up to xmas,he had planned to have his kids over

Check with your mate to see if he even has kids. Starting to think he doesn't. Sounds like he's using this as emotional blackmail.

christina51 wrote: »

he would be going to his solicitor today and would be looking for compensation,he called me a hundred different names before hanging up the phone

You are within your rights to pop over, once you give notice, to check on the upkeep of the house. I say this, as it sounds like the tenant is a prat. Prats often sell they don't ow, to make money to buy presents for others.

christina51 wrote: »

tbh i had to rent out the house originally as like half of the country i was out of work and couldnt afford mortgage repayments so i moved back with my parents,i have a new job now so i can now afford my mortgage again but i had intended to keep the house rented out and stay with my parents but now my brother has split up from his wife and he will be moving back with my parents with his 4 children!i know my poor parents,they will never get rid of us lol so i cant stay there with my daughter as there isnt any room

So you intend on moving back into the house? Pretty sure there's a clause saying that you can boot people out should you need to live in the house again.

=-=

Did you specify how much rent rent would be? I ask as you can let the tenant know that once the "free" time is over, they'll need to pay X amount per month. X being the highest amount that you can find for any sort of abode within 10 miles of your house. €9,000 a month sounds about right :pac:

DOC09UNAM

What happened with christina? Has it been 28 days yet?!

sesna

Really low quality, stupid contributions on the first 5 pages of this thread, such as getting the guards involved in a civil matter, to ignoring the law and "just telling the tenant to get the f*ck out".

Victor

Thread split.

Constructive posts only please.

mufcboy1999

sesna wrote: »

Really low quality, stupid contributions on the first 5 pages of this thread, such as getting the guards involved in a civil matter, to ignoring the law and "just telling the tenant to get the f*ck out".

better than what you have to say anyway mate

delllat

sit outside in your car ,wait til he leaves and then change the locks and leave his stuff in binbags outside the property

if he does any damage when he comes back ,ring the guards and report an attempted break in

he has no lease ,no rent reciepts ,no keys

you have deeds ,keys and are the rightful owner

who are they gonna believe ?