Man kills Pit-bull to save child....opinions?

DBCyc

thebullkf wrote: »

they're incomparable. i think you know this.

though i think to say PB's should be banned from homes is equally ridiculous.

Of course, I was just being ridiculously sarcastic to point out how stupid that comment was. It probably didn't even warrant a response to be fair.

ISDW

thebullkf wrote: »

do you only give your opinions on 'real' events,what about hypotheticals

You didn't post it as a hypothetical, and ask for opinions in that instance.

Why would I give the opinions you ask for when I don't think the events actually happened?

mbiking123

to the quetion of SF and killing dogs

First of all, apols about this but I was challenged as to how I knew it was bull the guy was spec training in killing dogs with bare hands

While with UN I got to know soldiers from Ukraine, one was spetsnaz and served in Afghanistan. They use a special unarmed combat called Systema. It is a cross of grappling like judo and strikes. They are big into this free flow of body movement which shows in their weapon handling. The guys told me a few war stories like SF units had german shepard in the unit for attack. The would attack taliban. They told me you would here cries of taliban gettin chewed up before they were killed. Kind of suicide dog. Only way to kill them was to shoot or bayonet. If you think a few thumps would stop them - forget it. If you dont have a gun then revert to malee weapon. knife, entrenching tool etc etc.

IDF use Krav Maga, and US also have there own unarmed combat. You can get official manuals on these combat methods. US marines train alot in grappling moves, submission moves. Knife fighting is also thought. Alot of this type of training also involves improvised weapons. This is all about unarmed combat, get an advantage over enemy. Avoid equal encounters, if you are then poke eyes etc etc. If I was attacked by a dog, I would hit it with anything to hand otherwise poke eyes out-nothing fancy. If it was a pitbull a short chew would do alot of damage

If anybody wants to do military style unarmed combat post a request in askthedirectory.com .

Sorry for changing the subject thread

Story is rubbish, SF are not trained to kill dogs with their hands. DO what SWAT/SRT units do-use a fire extinguisher and they run away as cold CO2 hurt them.

thebullkf

ISDW wrote: »

You didn't post it as a hypothetical, and ask for opinions in that instance.

Why would I give the opinions you ask for when I don't think the events actually happened?

jaysus-relax.:rolleyes:


why are you posting then? If you don't want to contribute. then don't.

thebullkf

mbiking123 wrote: »

to the quetion of SF and killing dogs

First of all, apols about this but I was challenged as to how I knew it was bull the guy was spec training in killing dogs with bare hands

where the hell did the OP say that????

he said

I am a ret. special operations veteran from the U.S. Army, and have been trained against attack dogs, although this was my first encounter in a windbreaker and shorts instead of a padded suit.

i assume the suit mentioned was a training suit .

Story is rubbish, SF are not trained to kill dogs with their hands. DO what SWAT/SRT units do-use a fire extinguisher and they run away as cold CO2 hurt them.

again who said they were??

on the Fire Ext. part....in a park??


i don't doubt your mates stories,een though {like the OP's} they are second hand.
I have no idea for certain whether its taught or not,neither do you.
for instance

Coming from a Marine Corps Background I've had the privilege of having some advanced H-H combat training and dogs had been covered...

taken from here- http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/martial-arts/defense-against-large-breed-dogs-409072.html

(literally 2 mins. searching so can't verify that post either.

you believe its BS,i've no issue with that the initial point i was making was the opinions of people to PB on both sides of the world.

ISDW

thebullkf wrote: »

jaysus-relax.:rolleyes:


why are you posting then? If you don't want to contribute. then don't.

You asked me a direct question, sorry I thought it would be rude not to reply to you. Apologies.

Cork24

their is some truth.. how likely a SF had to be in place at the right time at the right place..

I live in Cork as my name Stats

& about couple of months ago their was a child attack by a rottweiler it took 3 people to get the dog off, it was taken to the dogs home..

one of the police man called into the Dogs home, and basically said, IF this dog is not put down by the end of the day i will shot it my self!! 2 mins later the dog was put down.

this was on the Evening Echo about the Attack.

adser53

sdonn wrote: »

Pit bulls should not be allowed in domestic homes.

I know 99% of them are loveable things that never do anything wrong, but that 1% is what can kill people, especially small kids.

If you drive a car, you are forced by the law to wear a seatbelt so that in the 1% chance that you have a crash, you don;t go through the window. SHould be the same with these dogs. No domestic keeping of them. Anywhere. Ever. No exceptions.

This post actually made me shake my head in disbelief and made me realise the futility of defending any restricted breed against the blind ignorance facing them daily, both here on boards and in the real world. I don't know about the rest of yis but I'm getting very tired of saying the same things over and over!
And your argument is ludicrous at best and the "solution" to ban them from dwellings is equally daft. Why not ban all pets while your at it? Now forgive me while I tut and shake my head again!

thebullkf

ISDW wrote: »

You asked me a direct question, sorry I thought it would be rude not to reply to you. Apologies.

glad you changed your post,rudeness doesn't suit you

lrushe

I (DTI) am conducting this study to measure breed related behaviour.

We currently have a list of restricted breeds in Ireland and these breeds are subjected to extra control measures (muzzling and on lead). So by the very nature of these controls and the fact that we have the llist it is therefore being presumed that restricted breeds pose more of a threat to the public. Otherwise we would not have such controls and measures as per the control of dogs act.This presumption was made without consultation or any reference to any studies hence I am trying to determine whether this is the case or not.

At DTI we have no breed restrictions as our clients know and respect. This is a simple study to measure behaviour and whether or not there is a correlation between breed and behaviour because if there is no correlation between breed and aggression for example then the current restrictions placed on our restricted breeds must be revisited.

So if you are interested in helping me with this investigation I would very much appreciate your participation.

http://www.box.net/shared/08k2eenlyj

DonnchaMc

All i can think is I hope if ever faced with something remotely similar that i have the STONES to do what needs to be done, you saved the kids life "fact" and there can be no argument against anything you did.

Its a pity the dog had to be dealt with in that way but thats what had to be done end of story..

You sir are a hero and I tip my hat to you

pwd

Attack dogs aren't pets - they're attack dogs.

An owner of any dog needs to be able to control it, which usually includes being physically able to restrain it.

There's an ongoing experiment, which started decades ago, where they selectively breed two lines of foxes. From one line they bred the most docile, from the other they bred those showing the most aggression towards humans. Now the former line appear to be as gentle as most dogs, and the latter are like demons.

I find any sort of mistreatment of dogs abominable. They are hard-wired to communicate and cooperate with humans. They demonstrate emotion, and empathise with humans. For those reasons, I think mistreatment of dogs is worse than mistreatment of other animals...Nonetheless, I think a dog that would randomly attack a child should certainly be killed, and I would not feel sorry for it.

I think most people would try to fend off the dog in that situation, even if they didn't have the strength to break its neck. You'd have to be very afraid of dogs for that to outweigh the horror of what might otherwise have happened.

Sisko

liah wrote: »

I'd wager the stat is due to pitbulls typically being bought by irresponsible people for the flash/power image, especially in the States.

It's the same in Ireland. 9 times out of 10 when I see a pitbul there's a skanger at the other end of the lead.

Queen-Mise

Sisko wrote: »

It's the same in Ireland. 9 times out of 10 when I see a pitbul there's a skanger at the other end of the lead.

I love all the 'bull' type dogs - Staffs, american pit-bulls etc etc. I would love to get one in a few years time. For my own piece of mind I would like to get some dog handler training first; before I even brought the dog to dog training classes. I would also buy a pure breed with papers - as I have come across a lot of crosses that were inbred. Some of the inbred ones I have come across were so dangerous - shockingly so.


Incredible story OP - what is most striking to me, is the dog was killed in a humane way, bearing in mind the circumstances you were in.

Cork24

was it not only last year that the Irish Government were trying to ban some breeds

Bullseye1

I have to say that the good responsible owners of PB have a tough time. Unfortunately they are not being helped by those in society who keep PBs and use them as a form of intimidation and those irresponsible owners who do not keep them on leads and muzzled while in public.

mbiking123

The dog whisperer has a pitbull and it never attacks other dogs on the show. It is very restrained. Not everybody is as good with dogs as he is. Its the law that this breed along with others be muzzled and on a lead. Some people follow the law however most seem to flout it. If you want a pit bull you must put time and effort in, some people wont even walk a dog never mind train it (any breed of dog).

gav86

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I have to say that the good responsible owners of PB have a tough time. Unfortunately they are not being helped by those in society who keep PBs and use them as a form of intimidation and those irresponsible owners who do not keep them on leads and muzzled while in public.

True true, a lot of eejits have PB's and think they can manage them.. Should be more restrictions

DBCyc

gav86 wrote: »

True true, a lot of eejits have PB's and think they can manage them.. Should be more restrictions

More restrictions for the eejits to ignore and more punishment for the responsible owners?

In fairness, the amount of incidents of dog attacks, of any breed, here is low. They are way over-hyped by the media and this has created a general perception is that dogs are dangerous and pit-bulls are child eating beasts :rolleyes:

It would be interesting to compare the incidents of people getting injured by dog attacks to everyday general accidents such as falling down a stairs, or sports injuries to put the actual risk of a dog attack into perspective.

liah

From wiki:

It is estimated that two percent of the US population, 4.7 million people, are bitten each year.[3] In the 1980s and 1990s the US averaged 17 fatalities per year, while in the 2000s this has increased to 26.[4] 77% of dog bites are from the pet of family or friends, and 50% of attacks occur on the dog owner's property.[4]

The bit I bolded is very interesting.. and quite telling.

DBCyc

liah wrote: »

From wiki:

It is estimated that two percent of the US population, 4.7 million people, are bitten each year.[3] In the 1980s and 1990s the US averaged 17 fatalities per year, while in the 2000s this has increased to 26.[4] 77% of dog bites are from the pet of family or friends, and 50% of attacks occur on the dog owner's property.[4]

The bit I bolded is very interesting.. and quite telling.

There is an interesting link on that wiki page:

http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DTB859

mbiking123

If anybody is able to train dogs please post to askthedirectory.com It wont cost anything and anybody looking for obedience classes can track you down

Raffo69

Fair play to him. I would like to think I'd be brave enough to do the same myself. The dog should have been muzzled

thebullkf

mbiking123 wrote: »

If anybody is able to train dogs please post to askthedirectory.com It wont cost anything and anybody looking for obedience classes can track you down

do you have affiliations with this site?
i ask because its the second time you've mentioned it in as many days.....

mbiking123

No I dont, someone gave me URL on boards.ie and I think opposite to ebay is a good idea. I have make a good few postings this evening, if you take a look you will see I have not mentioned this URL. I see alot of URL's being given in posts, is there something wrong with this site fake etc etc ? Why do you ask ?

thebullkf

mbiking123 wrote: »

No I dont, someone gave me URL on boards.ie and I think opposite to ebay is a good idea. I have make a good few postings this evening, if you take a look you will see I have not mentioned this URL. I see alot of URL's being given in posts, is there something wrong with this site fake etc etc ? Why do you ask ?

mbiking123;69326543]
If anybody wants to do military style unarmed combat post a request in askthedirectory.com .

that was yesterday...another today, i dunnno anything about the site tbh.
first page requires subscription.

just asking

thebullkf

liah wrote: »

From wiki:

It is estimated that two percent of the US population, 4.7 million people, are bitten each year.[3] In the 1980s and 1990s the US averaged 17 fatalities per year, while in the 2000s this has increased to 26.[4] 77% of dog bites are from the pet of family or friends, and 50% of attacks occur on the dog owner's property.[4]

The bit I bolded is very interesting.. and quite telling.

interesting is right.

Some more stats.

there were 33 deaths in 2007, 23 in 2008, and 30 in 2009

Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, has conducted an unusually detailed study of dog bites from 1982 to the present. (Clifton, Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006; click here to read it.) The Clifton study show the number of serious canine-inflicted injuries by breed. The author's observations about the breeds and generally how to deal with the dangerous dog problem are enlightening.
According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. Clifton states:

If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price.

Clifton's opinions are as interesting as his statistics. For example, he says, "Pit bulls and Rottweilers are accordingly dogs who not only must be handled with special precautions, but also must be regulated with special requirements appropriate to the risk they may pose to the public and other animals, if they are to be kept at all."

so over a 20 year period (almost) the top 3 dog offenders were pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes... responsible for 74% of attacks

never thought it was that high....


Source: http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

thebullkf

conversely none of the breeds mentioned above make it onto any list of
"best family dog" etc... {that i could find.}

mbiking123

Anyone looking for a nice dog, check out http://www.dogrescueireland.com/index.htm
But I heard you have to be careful mixing a home with a dog and a baby, any dog.

I came across this website on Pitbulls, Irish website that is trying to promote the breed
http://irelandspitbulls.friendhood.net/breed-specific-legislation-f10/injustice-to-victims-equality-and-justice-for-all-victims-not-with-bsl-breed-bans-serving-only-a-few-t631.htm

lrushe

thebullkf wrote: »

so over a 20 year period (almost) the top 3 dog offenders were pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes... responsible for 74% of attacks

never thought it was that high....

Of these 74%:

* Where the breeds identified correctly?
* How were these dogs bred?
* How old were they when they left their mother?
* How were they socialised?
* How were they treated ie. lack of food, teased, abused etc.?
* What type of people owned the dogs, people would integrated them into their families or people who used them as a status symbol or merely for guarding purposes?
* Of the children involved in the incidents, were they alone with the dogs or supervised?

From what I have read from this link the information is far too vauge to draw too many conclusions from it. No doubt the above mentioned dogs shouldn't be owned by just anybody but that is no reason to black list a particular breed of dog. People are always the problem, it's only once in a blue moon that it is the dog and of those cases it could be any breed of dog and is usually due to some neurolgical reasons.