Inner-city kids.

George83

Only mho but from what I've seen in my (numerous) visits to Dublin the youth are much more civilised than the little gits we seem to be producing here in England.

The bad weather is just after getting used as an excuse for antisocial behaviour, in the name of 'fun'

The other night for example when I'd finished my shift at work I got pelted with snowballs whilst walking through the carpark at work(11pm) but the little fukcers were hiding behind the parked cars so I couldn't see them until they were lobbing the snow ... It was the not seeing them that really scared the sh!t out of me.

JohnSherwin90

Relax, kids all over the world are a bit mouthy. Only a small percentage are bad enough to cause serious trouble, and that's the same all over the world. Don't confront them or you could end up getting stabbed by a little prick. Keep yourself to yourself unless they damage your property.

mrsdewinter

Dudess wrote: »

And in general, keep away from them/avoid passing them if you feel too intimidated.
Just whingeing about it won't achieve anything, and hate-filled "sterilisation ftw" type rhetoric won't either. Why not have a think about what else (sensible) can be done? If there's parental failure here, peer pressure, a lack of amenities for youngsters, well these are not justifications, but they are explanations. What would you suggest to remedy these things?

Dudess, why should I have to avoid certain parts of the city I live and work in? I hold down a job, pay my taxes... why the hell should I have to brace myself for attack when all I'm doing is walking to the train station.

By the way, thanks for implying that every person who has been subjected to these completely random incidents are sad sacks who don't know how to be down with the kids.

Still, amenities ftw, eh?

Babooshka

Dudess wrote: »

I don't think anyone's being a bleeding heart here - but there seems to be an orgasmic thrill derived from typing that phrase. All that's being said is: if you're getting lip, ignore/make a smart comment back. If you're being physically attacked or you see someone else being physically attacked, defend yourself/them or call the guards. And in general, keep away from them/avoid passing them if you feel too intimidated.
Just whingeing about it won't achieve anything, and hate-filled "sterilisation ftw" type rhetoric won't either. Why not have a think about what else (sensible) can be done? If there's parental failure here, peer pressure, a lack of amenities for youngsters, well these are not justifications, but they are explanations. What would you suggest to remedy these things?

In my personal experience, you cannot reason with the unreasonable.

I used to be followed around by a gang of gurriers (all male) when I was a teenager. They used to shout at me on the street and physically block my path and push me around, I was a very tomboyish weedy thin girl. I tried ignoring them. I then tried laughing with them to gain their acceptance. I tried being reasonable with the local wildlife. Somehow I don't think telling my Mammy to have a word with them would have worked either. It was intensely intimidating and extremely debilitating.

Eventually my nerves snapped and so did I. I chased one of them after they started following me one day and beat him hard until he bled.
Problem solved, never happened again.

I grew up with lack of amenities in a single parent home with little money and less parental guidance as that parent had a full time job, but I find I don't have to make explanations for myself, me and a lot of others at that, I'm not special by any means.

...Why not have a think about how come some people manage to still function as decent kids and grow into ok adults without screaming "mammy didn't love me and there was no youth club in my area, that's why I stabbed the victim!"

Dudess

mrsdewinter wrote: »

Dudess, why should I have to avoid certain parts of the city I live and work in? I hold down a job, pay my taxes... why the hell should I have to brace myself for attack when all I'm doing is walking to the train station.

It's sh1t that the more intimidating ones cause you to feel you can't take the route they're on, but what else would you suggest? There are some battles you can't win.

By the way, thanks for implying that every person who has been subjected to these completely random incidents are sad sacks who don't know how to be down with the kids.

I did no such thing. Ironic you were accusing others of being defensive.

Still, amenities ftw, eh?

I don't recall saying that either.

Babooshka wrote: »

I chased one of them after they started following me one day and beat him hard until he bled.
Problem solved, never happened again.

And I suggested defending yourself/others if you're able to.

I grew up with lack of amenities in a single parent home with little money and less parental guidance as that parent had a full time job, but I find I don't have to make explanations for myself, me and a lot of others at that, I'm not special by any means.

...Why not have a think about how come some people manage to still function as decent kids and grow into ok adults without screaming "mammy didn't love me and there was no youth club in my area, tha's why I stabbed the victim!"

I didn't say it excuses it, I didn't even say it explains it. I said it might be one of a number of explanations, and these are what need to be gotten to the bottom of in order to resolve this issue.
Yes of course I know people (probably the majority) who grow up in areas without amenities/opportunities don't necessarily go on to behave like these kids.

mrsdewinter

Babooshka wrote: »

In my personal experience, you cannot reason with the unreasonable.

I used to be followed around by a gang of gurriers (all male) when I was a teenager. They used to shout at me on the street and physically block my path and push me around, I was a very tomboyish weedy thin girl. I tried ignoring them. I then tried laughing with them to gain their acceptance. I tried being reasonable with the local wildlife. Somehow I don't think telling my Mammy to have a word with them would have worked either. It was intensely intimidating and extremely debilitating.

Eventually my nerves snapped and so did I. I chased one of them after they started following me one day and beat him hard until he bled.
Problem solved, never happened again.

I grew up with lack of amenities in a single parent home with little money and less parental guidance as that parent had a full time job, but I find I don't have to make explanations for myself, me and a lot of others at that, I'm not special by any means.

...Why not have a think about how come some people manage to still function as decent kids and grow into ok adults without screaming "mammy didn't love me and there was no youth club in my area, that's why I stabbed the victim!"

+1 times 100!

I take my hat off to the bravery of your teenage self!

Re your final point, it's spot-on.

Cavehill Red

Forgive me for suggesting the short-cut, but your scenic route isn't working, Dudess.

The way to resolve such behaviour is CONSEQUENCES. These bottom feeders need to face consequences for their actions, and I don't mean going to counselling, or a stint in 'baby crim' juvie school either.

Caught robbing? Twice the value taken from the clothes and items you're wearing, and the cost of the investigation taken from you and your parents' benefits.

Caught vandalising? Rent allowance cancelled in perpetuity. All your assets siezed and sold to pay for the damage. And the same goes for the parents.

Caught attacking people? You're in the army now, son. No wages, but you get food and board. Enjoy attacking people in Chad, sh1thead.

Consequences. Real ones.

Babooshka

Dudess wrote: »

.

I didn't say it excuses it, I didn't even say it explains it. I said it might be one of a number of explanations, and these are what need to be gotten to the bottom of in order to resolve this issue.
QUOTE]

Ha ha ha, do you split hairs much Dudess :D:D

You're dissecting it an awful lot. You think there's a logical answer if we all only think hard enough. I think sterilisation would work a lot quicker and that if us humans are so clever then someone would have worked out an answer before this. If you try to solve it with compassion or reason then there is no bottom to it. But, treat a animal like an animal while you're dealing with it, and only then will it understand.

And I don't advocate sterilisation as a hate filled rhetoric either, I honestly think it's a sensible solution (you asked us all for earlier) People will call me a nazi. I care little as I'd be more interested in curbing it, as there is no solution, some people are just scum bags and that's it. But they will throw every explanation/excuse/horror story at the judge they can to get off with good behaviour.

Anyway I am logging off cos I am finished making my points and I cannot dissect to your level...and I am freezin:eek:) fair play to ya though !
I normally agree with a good few of your posts but I found your post (that I originally replied to in here) very patronising in its tone.

Dudess

Er... I did absolutely no dissecting. I thought you picked me up wrongly and I elaborated further. Seems you're the one analysing stuff that's not even there. And lol at you accusing me of being patronising. The start and end of your post is passive-aggressive central. Whatever you want to resort to though...

Namlub

mrsdewinter wrote: »

Dudess, why should I have to avoid certain parts of the city I live and work in? I hold down a job, pay my taxes... why the hell should I have to brace myself for attack when all I'm doing is walking to the train station.

Because we don't live in a utopian society and, as with any major city, there are going to be dodgy parts of Dublin. Hate to state the obvious but this isn't a new phenemenon. I don't condone any sort of threatening behaviour and I agree that not enough is being done to tackle it, but some of these replies are ridiculous; by and large Dublin, and Ireland in general, is a safe place to live and you can generally venture outside your front door without being set upon by gangs of feral children with machetes...

Babooshka

Dudess wrote: »

Er... I did absolutely no dissecting. I thought you picked me up wrongly and I elaborated further. Seems you're the one analysing stuff that's not even there. And lol at you accusing me of being patronising. The start and end of your post is passive-aggressive central. Whatever you want to resort to though...

Night night Dudess.

Dudess

Not that puzzling - really.

Cavehill Red

Namlub wrote: »

Because we don't live in a utopian society and, as with any major city, there are going to be dodgy parts of Dublin. Hate to state the obvious but this isn't a new phenemenon. I don't condone any sort of threatening behaviour and I agree that not enough is being done to tackle it, but some of these replies are ridiculous; by and large Dublin, and Ireland in general, is a safe place to live and you can generally venture outside your front door without being set upon by gangs of feral children with machetes...

If they stayed in their 'dodgy parts', there wouldn't be so much of a problem. But the incident I witnessed occurred in a commercial part of town, and the other places people have named are hardly Darndale either.
These ferals emerge from their welfare-dependent sh!tholes and inflict their concept of fun on other people. It costs money, in terms of burgling and vandalism, and it's cost some people on this thread physical pain. It nearly cost people their lives on the roads today, me being one of them.
The 'by and large' argument doesn't apply when these pr1cks swarm into areas that haven't been made into open sewers by the residents, and try to adapt them to their own squalid norm.

Dudess

I'm not being a bleeding heart but I really find the "Once it's restricted to their ghetto it's fine, but no riff-raff in the respectable commercial areas please" sentiment pretty disturbing. What about other people living in those "ghettos"? Is it acceptable to leave them put up with abuse as long as e.g. nice parts of Dublin 2 are ok?

MrChavcore

How appropriate that after I had started this topic yesterday that today I've managed to have my windows pelted with stones and snow and watch an Indian guy get beaten up for no apparent reason by about 10 teenagers. I think a lot of people have tried to justify this beaviour by means of circumstance. That simply cannot be an excuse. There should never be any sort of justification for this kind of behaviour.

In South Africa our problems run a lot deeper. You can blame our high murder and rape rates on the fact that people have grown up with absolutely nothing. No brick walls, no sanitation, no social hand outs, no money, no nothing. People turn to a life of crime as a means to an end and though they are completely out of hand in their brutality and actions it is because of the fact that they were socially destroyed and broken down by a far more unfair society than anything the Irish have ever had to live with.

When I'm a working member of society and my tax money funds the food that feeds these kids, the flat that houses them and the tracksuit that clothes them then I should have a right to vent my anger and frustration. I know it is comparing apples and oranges, and I know I certainly don't come from a land of milk and honey.. but surely if you aim to have a society you can be truely proud of you need to weed these kinds of people out of society. You cannot fix what is broken and I'm not idiot to the fact that these kids are born to people just as scummy as them who had kids at way to young an age and could hardly afford to feed themselves let alone a little one. I merely asked what can be done about these kids when even the police dont respond to your calls- no need for name calling or finger pointing. I'm glad I started a good debate.. Let it rage on!

Cavehill Red

Dudess wrote: »

I'm not being a bleeding heart but I really find the "Once it's restricted to their ghetto it's fine, but no riff-raff in the respectable commercial areas please" sentiment pretty disturbing. What about other people living in those "ghettos"? Is it acceptable to leave them put up with abuse as long as e.g. nice parts of Dublin 2 are ok?

The people in the ghettos need to clean up their ghettos!
It's not my fault they've made sh1t of their areas. Why should I suffer their feral kids making a sh1t of mine, when me and my neighbours strive hard to keep it in good order?
Put simply, this sort of anti-social behaviour is a doubleheaded cancer. It spreads as the kids get older into more serious criminal activity, and it spreads geographically as the kids range into areas other than their own.
You don't negotiate with that. You treat it surgically.

Dudess

Yeah but a "Let them eat cake" attitude of "Shove them all together and forget about them" isn't exactly sowing the seeds for harmonious co-existence either - especially when these are in a minority but they make life sh1t for everyone else. You're facing them on a casual encounter basis - at least you don't have to live next door to them.

Quentinkrisp

Dudess wrote: »

Er... I did absolutely no dissecting. I thought you picked me up wrongly and I elaborated further. Seems you're the one analysing stuff that's not even there. And lol at you accusing me of being patronising. The start and end of your post is passive-aggressive central. Whatever you want to resort to though...

Being a bit self contradictory, aren't we?:rolleyes:

Quentinkrisp

Dudess wrote: »

I don't recall saying that either

.

Dudess wrote: »

Why not have a think about what else (sensible) can be done? If there's parental failure here, peer pressure, a lack of amenities for youngsters, well these are not justifications, but they are explanations. What would you suggest to remedy these things?

Hmmm, your memory is clearly deteriorating. must be an early onset of alzheimers or something. Tbh I have never witnessed a more impressive display of backpedalling, self contradiction and general wooliness than when I'd read your last few posts dudess. I guess it's true when they say "live in cork once, but leave bfore it makes you wooly":D;)

Cavehill Red

Dudess wrote: »

Yeah but a "Let them eat cake" attitude of "Shove them all together and forget about them" isn't exactly sowing the seeds for harmonious co-existence either - especially when these are in a minority but they make life sh1t for everyone else. You're facing them on a casual encounter basis - at least you don't have to live next door to them.

I grew up in a proper ghetto - North Belfast, surrounded by Loyalist areas. We may have rioted for our rights on occasion. People were randomly targetted on the street and murdered on both sides by terrorists. But you know what there wasn't? There wasn't this feral disregard for the rest of humanity among urchins.

Our area was well maintained, and so was that of the nearby Loyalist areas. People wouldn't dream of assaulting someone at random on the street. The idea of burgling a house was beyond belief. The only thing I ever saw a stone thrown against was the RUC during a riot.

There is no excuse for the behaviour we see today. It simply doesn't wash. Other people in other times and places have had so much less (no hundreds of euro of benefits a week for them) and made so much more of it.

This is a product of feral kids, born to irresponsible and incapable parents, effectively raising themselves. You see similar behaviour among the sewer children of 80s Romania, the ones who basically had lived on the streets with no adult supervision for their entire lives.

The answer, as I said, is consequences. For both the parents and the kids. Real consequences that enforce them to reconsider their actions. The current system doesn't work. The Joy is a rite of passage for them. There has to be something different. Which is why I suggest hitting them in their pocket, hard.

WindSock

Fight poverty stricken people with...more poverty? Can't see that working too well.

Namlub

Cavehill Red wrote: »

If they stayed in their 'dodgy parts', there wouldn't be so much of a problem. But the incident I witnessed occurred in a commercial part of town, and the other places people have named are hardly Darndale either.
These ferals emerge from their welfare-dependent sh!tholes and inflict their concept of fun on other people. It costs money, in terms of burgling and vandalism, and it's cost some people on this thread physical pain. It nearly cost people their lives on the roads today, me being one of them.
The 'by and large' argument doesn't apply when these pr1cks swarm into areas that haven't been made into open sewers by the residents, and try to adapt them to their own squalid norm

It doesn't? You'd disagree that Dublin is a relatively safe place to live then?

Dudess

Points taken, Cavehill Red. I'm not defending extreme intimidating behaviour.

Quentinkrisp wrote: »

Being a bit self contradictory, aren't we?:rolleyes:

I realise it's a lot easier to just type a short sentence with the rolleyes symbol, but I find elaboration's a better approach.

Quentinkrisp wrote: »

Hmmm, your memory is clearly deteriorating. must be an early onset of alzheimers or something. Tbh I have never witnessed a more impressive display of backpedalling, self contradiction and general wooliness than when I'd read your last few posts dudess. I guess it's true when they say "live in cork once, but leave bfore it makes you wooly":D;)

Oh, resort to borderline personal abuse - what strength of character.

Now: "Amenities ftw" and "If there's... a lack of amenities for youngsters, well these are not justifications, but they are explanations"... these are two different phrases.

Cavehill Red

Namlub wrote: »

It doesn't? You'd disagree that Dublin is a relatively safe place to live then?

In 2007, some survey had it as the 2nd safest city on Earth. I still chuckle at that one. I've always felt safer in Belfast, despite the Troubles, and still do.

Part of the problem is the policing. The North is policed. The OP's point about cops not bothering to even investigate is very valid in Dublin. Loads of crime goes unreported because people KNOW that nothing will ever be done about it.

In my time in Dublin, I've seen crime, both in terms of severity and amount, increase exponentially. Some of these animals are running around with small arsenals of semiautomatic weaponry now.

You ask me about safe? I'd take Singapore or most Chinese cities anyday. Person on person crime is very low in those places, because the consequences of being caught are genuine deterrents.

Lollymcd

Is it time to point out that children do not make great parents? It's time the PC ideals of the past ended, being a single teenage mother (note I do not say "parent"... in my five years experience working in the inner city I've yet to meet a single father) is not the best situation in which to raise a kid, some do it well, most do not... In taking away the stigma of getting pregnant outside of marriage we've gone a bit far. To raise a child I think at least one competent mature parent is need, two if possible. We are failing certain sections of society, this needs to be addressed with education and much more.

Cavehill Red

WindSock wrote: »

Fight poverty stricken people with...more poverty? Can't see that working too well.

Darndale (to choose one commonly cited example of 'poverty stricken' Dublin) :



Actual poverty:



Spot the difference?

Citygirl1

BigDuffman wrote: »

But on the other hands..some posters need to lighten up...kids throwing snowballs...oh the humanity...where does their evil end?!?

I could understand if they were throwing stones or bricks. I was walking back from the cinema last night with the lads and we got ambushed by a group of kids throwing snowballs. We laughed and started pelting them back. Good times had by all. I'd hardly call that anti-social

I'm just taking this quote as example. It seems that the various posters who are taking this view have no understanding of the issues arising from the snowballing, or have not read the thread fully.

Certainly, a few kids having a snowball fight with their friends, or engaging with willing passers-by is no problem.

However, the reality seems to be that the snow is just providing another opportunity for the many groups of scum around the city to engage in threatening, intimidating, and sometimes dangerous behaviour.

Earlier this evening, on my way home from work, on leaving the Luas, I had to walk up a certain road, where a group of young adults, had stationed themselves where they knew that passers-by would have to walk reasonably close. On passing, I had a number of snowballs thrown at me, initally from around 10-15 feet. Then one particular piece of scum, knowing I couldn't get away quickly, walked right up, with the intent of intimidating me, before pelting a large snowball directly at my face, from around 3 feet. As I turned, most of it hit the side of my head - an hour later my cheek was still smarting from the part that got my face.

Further up the road I met a group of kids at the same game, though they weren't much of a problem. Clearly they are the "trainee" scum.

I would add that I am a girl, of small build, and could not hope to "defend" myself.

From reading other examples in this thread, it seems this type of behaviour is ramant throughout the city. The story of the old man being knocked down, and the driver who couldn't see with the snowballs on his windscreen, were particularly worrying. Surely this should be considered assault?

People are also stating that this behaviour arises because the "kids" are "bored" and don't have all the facilities, youth clubs etc that they need. Since when did not being fully entertained make it acceptable to engage in intimidation and assault? Many kids from both disadvantaged and better off areas do not have 24 hour entertainment, and yet don't behave like this.

Surely this behaviour is more a reflection of how they have been brought up. If it is considered acceptable, they will continue to behave this way on the way home from the supposed youth club, as a follow up to having wrecked the youth club premesis.

Namlub

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Part of the problem is the policing. The North is policed. The OP's point about cops not bothering to even investigate is very valid in Dublin. Loads of crime goes unreported because people KNOW that nothing will ever be done about it.

I agree with this tbf.

You ask me about safe? I'd take Singapore or most Chinese cities anyday. Person on person crime is very low in those places, because the consequences of being caught are genuine deterrents.

Surely that's down to differences in society as much as anything though? Which I know opens up a whole chicken-and-egg argument but still..

Nevyn

We have a generation who have been reared with out physical disapline in schools and at home but it wasn't replaced with any other sort of parenting disapline. They know that they can't be held accountable by the courts and they laugh it off. Thier parents don't care or can't manage which is why they are the way they are.

Due to the system there are certan parts of the city which are frankly lawless.

The break down in community where people dont' know thier neighbours means you don't know who's kids they are so it's impossible to find the parents never mind talk to them, and even then that might not make a difference.

I rang the local station to talk to one of the JLO as there was a gang pelting snowballs at the windows and when I went out I got pelted as well, two of them have juvie records, with socail workers involved and the JLO. I told the garda what as going on and if it kept up and if I got hit again, I would be pressing charges for assult.

The Garda came up and spoke to the parents about it and the consquences of what would happen if I was to do that.

Sick of how a few scumbags can get away with this. It used to be people stood up to it, these days people are too scared and the little bastards know it.

As for the two 'ladies' in scanners video, I would have poured a basin of cold water out the window on to them.

Nevyn

Lollymcd wrote: »

Is it time to point out that children do not make great parents? It's time the PC ideals of the past ended, being a single teenage mother (note I do not say "parent"... in my five years experience working in the inner city I've yet to meet a single father) is not the best situation in which to raise a kid, some do it well, most do not... In taking away the stigma of getting pregnant outside of marriage we've gone a bit far. To raise a child I think at least one competent mature parent is need, two if possible. We are failing certain sections of society, this needs to be addressed with education and much more.

It is not just the offspring of young mother, that can play a factor but one of the local undesirables was born to his mother when she was in her late 40s, so he's 15 and she's in her 60s and he does as he please after his father passed away 5 years ago.