United Earth Government

KenSwee

Ok, so this is barley Star Trek related but I'm curious to see how others feel.

And it's an integral part of the ST background so I thought I bring it up.

Putting aside the obvious technical and administrative issues such as language barriers, what do you think of the idea of an United Earth Government or United Earth Federation?

With our financial problems causing ripple effects across Europe and the rest of the world, would it be a bad thing to move towards a more united political federation with a goal to have (yes the scary term!) a 'one world government'?

What amazes me is that the idea of a united government, apart from ST, is portrayed in such a negative way. With the likes of Jim Corr going around saying that there is a secret government in place already, the whole idea seems to have such negative connotations. Yes I know the UN is all screwed up but it came into being as a reaction to a world war and and has always been corrupt since it's inception. It's not a government and it has no teeth so it's is flawed.

Personally I think it's inevitable, if a long way away. I also have no problem with the idea. Modern politics are now either vaguely centre right or left with no real alternative, apart from the usual lunatics running pocket countries. Also most of the successful countries have been federal with local areas or states running day to day issues while the national government looks after such matters as finance, defence and international relations. You only have to go to Germany, Canada or even the USA to see that most cultures, ethnic groups and nationalities are still retained and still quite independent despite being part of a larger government administration. A one world government does not mean a one party government either and this is where I believe that the bad press incorrectly portrays the idea. Many federal based political systems have multiple options when it comes to parties in government. The federal system relies on this for it to be successful. Despite the fact that most of the parties in a democratic system are very alike, you still have an option to change who is in charge. A united earth government is a not a one party government. The world is much smaller place today and you can talk to somebody in Alaska, go to Brisbane in a day, do business with a vineyard in Chile or mobilise an army to travel 10000kms in two days. Most of us drink Cola, know about different foods, take the same medicine, want the same things and the majority of us accept different religions, customs and ethnic backgrounds.

So what is the general opinion here? Accepting that most of us who post here are keen ST fans, is the idea of a one world government a good idea?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_government

Apolloyon

I think it is in essence inevitable that a World Government will arise with this century. As to what form an EU style model or other remains to be seen. As for whether this will be a good thing or a bad thing is at this stage impossible to tell. The reality is that it will like any government be a bit of both hopefully the good outstripping the bad.

I think many people and by definition the governments that represent them have a hard time accepting the plain truth that no one country stands alone anymore. Economically we rely on other nations as they do on us. From the goods and services that are produced, to the entertainment we watch, read or download - we all depend on another like it or not.

As to what happens - erosion of individual cultures, the lost of sovereignty, currencies changing, this is not a new thing. Any history book will report this. It's how we cope with these changes that will set the tone for what future government emerges in my opinion.

AndrewS

I think its an admirable idea and something that should be worked towards. However, I don't think that its something that I will witness in my lifetime. And I also believe that there are a couple of issues and obstacles that could and probably will prevent such a thing from occurring.

1) Location: one must consider where such a global government will be based. One suggestion would be a place in continental United States, and thats something that a number of countries will object to. Because they will see it as a situation where the American people are exerting control, or too much control over policies and so on.

2) Fanaticism: sadly, this is still a huge part of modern life, no matter where you go. Fanaticism and extremism would need to be eliminated for the better before anything like this could become reality. And Im not suggesting that the global government simply eradicates all those responsible for such extremism.

3) Fairness: if such a government is to come into existence, then we are going to have to help to eliminate the extremes of wealth in modern society. This may enrich certain peoples and somewhat impoverish others. With the Federation, money is not used any more and to quote Jean-Luc Picard, humanity is no longer obsessed with the aquisition of wealth. Humanity needs to focus more on the betterment of society and providing for the needs of the population in terms of food and education.

4) Religion is still a major driving force in 21st Century politics, diplomacy and society. The OP suggests that the vast majority accept differing religions and philosophical viewpoints. With respect, I must disagree. Religion is a significant causal factor in most, if not all of the major conflicts that have occurred on the planet. And, its fair to say that religion could be held responsible for many of the extremes of poverty and wealth seen in the world today. IMO, we as citizens of the world need to stop talking about being understanding and accepting and actually practice what we preach.

This may seem overly cynical, but in all honesty, until the matters of conflict and mistrust are resolved by diplomatic means, then quite frankly the notion of a global government just wont work. Im all for it and think it would have a huge impact, but its going to take a very long time to bring about. You also need to remember that its not just governance and political systems that need to be put in place. You are talking about unified defence, healthcare, education and fiscal systems too. And with the state of the planet right now, I honestly think it will be well into the 22nd Century before its fully implemented. That doesnt mean that we shouldnt work towards it though.

nyarlothothep

Highly unlikely that humanity will ever have a one world government, I think most humans are still far too much in thrall to their primitive impulses.

Myrddin

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Highly unlikely that humanity will ever have a one world government, I think most humans are still far too much in thrall to their primitive impulses.

Agreed, the only driving force in most governments is economics & political gain. Exploration, is sadly not a factor. Besides, half the world is still blowing the cr@p out of the other half, despite what we've 'learned' from two world wars. We've a loooong way to go yet.

Manach

Unless there is an outside force that would effectively force co-operation between nations [the classic alien threat], in spite of the positive colleasing force of religious organisations, a world government is unlikely.

Myrddin

Manach wrote: »

Unless there is an outside force that would effectively force co-operation between nations [the classic alien threat], in spite of the positive colleasing force of religious organisations, a world government is unlikely.

Well it's possible, more likely trigger an arms race, heightened tensions, fingers on the button, cold war-esque stuff. Remember, it's humans we're talking about here :pac:

nyarlothothep

Well, lets start a world government here, we can all agree to agree can't we? I call president of the world.

Myrddin

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Well, lets start a world government here, we can all agree to agree can't we? I call president of the world.

I call Vice.

ChocolateSauce

Is it desirable? Given the right conditions- a liberal, secular, multi-party, transparent, democratic government - yes, it is desirable.

The devil is in the detail though.

Although I have a somewhat simple way of getting around the location problem- don't have a capital of Earth. There is no single location, city or country on Earth which deserves to be called the capital. Rather, have maybe 6 locations (one each in N, S America, Europe, Middle East, Africa, Asia) where the government could sit, and move the seat of government every time there is an election.

Johnny Storm

A world govt would be a necessity if we ever make First Contact (I mean when....)

nyarlothothep

Johnny Storm wrote: »

A world govt would be a necessity if we ever make First Contact (I mean when....)

I could well imagine the most powerful nations walking over smaller ones to do commercial deals with the aliens. The Americans and Chinese would compete to sell their resources, probably their citizens as slaves to the aliens in exchange for advanced weapons tech or a free ride across the galaxy. The aliens would either regard this as silly and primitive behaviour or would be totally indifferent to the ethical dilemmas presented therein and would happily accept human slaves to do the hard work of scrubbing ships etc.

Myrddin

nyarlothothep wrote: »

human slaves to do the hard work of scrubbing ships etc.

Beats the dole. Where do I sign up?

norrie rugger

EnterNow wrote: »

I call Vice.

Vice president or dept of vice?

Myrddin

norrie rugger wrote: »

Vice president or dept of vice?

Nylars copy of vice city, he won't be needing that as prez

PeterIanStaker

I call junior vice president

goose2005

EnterNow wrote: »

Agreed, the only driving force in most governments is economics & political gain. Exploration, is sadly not a factor. Besides, half the world is still blowing the cr@p out of the other half, despite what we've 'learned' from two world wars. We've a loooong way to go yet.

That's not really true, most powerful countries are either allies or mild economic rivals. Can you foresee an EU-China war?

Myrddin

goose2005 wrote: »

That's not really true, most powerful countries are either allies or mild economic rivals. Can you foresee an EU-China war?

Could you have seen a US-German war in 1938? Political alliances are very delicate, solidified with economic alliances. Ironically, MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) has probably prevented more wars than anything else.

hogflem

I recall captain Picard ,telling a visitor to the Enterprise something along the lines ,that money and material possessions were obsolete on earth,and that they were able to build a better world as a result,so,how do we go about making money and material possessions obsolete??????

Myrddin

hogflem wrote: »

I recall captain Picard ,telling a visitor to the Enterprise something along the lines ,that money and material possessions were obsolete on earth,and that they were able to build a better world as a result,so,how do we go about making money and material possessions obsolete??????

Of all things Star Trek, humans leaving their own greed behind is probably the most fictional element of the whole show.

hogflem

Don't forget,those humans left they're greed behind in exchange for,replicators,holo-suites and the like.If it were actually possible for such machines to exist,money would'nt be such a big issue,anything you could possibly need, would be there for the asking!!!

Myrddin

hogflem wrote: »

Don't forget,those humans left they're greed behind in exchange for,replicators,holo-suites and the like.If it were actually possible for such machines to exist,money would'nt be such a big issue,anything you could possibly need, would be there for the asking!!!

But who would build a holodeck without getting paid, and who would install a replicator for free? There's personal gain behind everything we do, I can't see that ever changing.

hogflem

Im finding it hard to disagree with you,but,human natures a funny thing,lets keep our fingers crossed!!

Myrddin

hogflem wrote: »

Im finding it hard to disagree with you,but,human natures a funny thing,lets keep our fingers crossed!!

By all means, & lets hope things move in the right direction...but to be honest I don't have a lot of faith in human nature these days. Maybe thats what happens when living in Dublin :rolleyes::p

Cookie_Monster

The Good That Men Do mentions that Australia is the last country to join up to the world government. Thought it was an odd one, that one of the more backward dictatorships like North Korea didn't hold out longer

Jaafa

hogflem wrote: »

I recall captain Picard ,telling a visitor to the Enterprise something along the lines ,that money and material possessions were obsolete on earth,and that they were able to build a better world as a result,so,how do we go about making money and material possessions obsolete??????

I believe that was because they had mastered the making of nano machine factory's which can make anything out of anything. Thus removing the need for money or material gain.

Denerick

Long way off, and far from inevitable. A united Earth government could only come about when technology becomes so advanced that it makes independent nation states become infeasible.

hogflem

Jaafa wrote: »

I believe that was because they had mastered the making of nano machine factory's which can make anything out of anything. Thus removing the need for money or material gain.

Sounds good to me,as long as nano technology is used for the greater good,otherwise you end up with thing's like the Borg!!:eek:

onion rings

i know its an old thread but i alwalys thought global communism...

i typed it into google and got this, tis interesting reading
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Trek-Marxism.html

constantg

But who would build a holodeck without getting paid, and who would install a replicator for free? There's personal gain behind everything we do, I can't see that ever changing.

People (myself included) often derive great satisfaction from doing something or building something for no reason related to personal gain or ambition. Surely we've all done some deed and stood back and said to ourselves 'a job well done is praise enough'

We need to get to that level. And more importantly we need to bring others. If i say that after a day's work, then i still need to eat, i need to sleep somewhere, i need to socialise and interact. So the person cooking or preparing food for me needs to feel that their effort is valued also. The person serving the drink needs to feel satisfied also.



Also I call Chief of Secret Police....:D

Kiith

It'll never happen as long as there's Religion in the world.

constantg wrote: »

Also I call Chief of Secret Police....:D

You mean Chief of Section 31 don't you :pac: