Some basics of Living With Snow culture

clear_sky

Dear Irish people! Now we all are waiting until snow will stop falling and will be back usual Irish weather. But no one can promise that it would be so, who knows, if snow will come back in some weeks!
I come from eastern European country, we have snow permanently or temporary from November to April, so our countries have some essential rules, how to behave in snow weather.


Cleaning roads with special machinery like snow ploughs



Cleaning pavements with light wooden or plastic spades. It is usually done by street sweepers, employed my government.

In specially bad weather conditions for cleaning pavements are bid unemployed people who get social welfare and armed forces.


Gritting roads and pavements with sand and salt mixture.





Use winter tyres for cars with spikes.



NO rubber boots – rubber it material which attracts cold, if you want to wear rubber boots, definitely wear thick wooden socks inside. Otherwise wearing rubber boot for a long time may cause some illnesses like rheumatism.

By the way, on this picture woman is wearing not rubber but felt boots, it is hardly possible to get such in Ireland, so good idea is to get boots with special GoreTex layer which is waterproof, I personally wear those.

Better to clean permanently, otherwise snow compresses and it will be difficulter to clean it later. If snow layer already is compressed, use special bat but don’t hit to strong, to not damage pavement surface.



Surfaces must be clean, otherwise in thaw time, when everything will start melting it will be terribly slippery.

When start melting – beware of icicles!


In northern countries buildings on the design stage are specially calculated on snow load, because snow layer on the roof(and specially compressed during some thaws snow) may cause 90 kg/m2 pressure(~20 cm layer). So in our countries we clean roofs, to beware its collapse, several times during the winter if layer of snow is too thick.
Also if you don’t clean the roof, a specially sloping one, snow may pile up on the roof’s edge, and in the thaw time huge blocks may start falling down(usually on the pedestrians heads).




I just want to live and enjoy winter time without terrible traffic jams and dangerous situations as you all!
Kind regards.

One more tip… about gardening, don’t be frightened that snow covers all your plants, actually snow is natural isolation, so without snow in a big frost plants would be frozen. There is nothing spare in the Nature

kenmc

clear_sky wrote: »

Use winter tyres for cars with spikes.

Wow, you guys sure have skinny car wheels - I have these tyres on my mountain bike!

Varkov

I am Qubec, please excuse my unexcellence typing.

clear_sky

kenmc, sure this tyre is for bike. Just picture of car tyre that I found was too big... but if you want

DDigital

Brilliant post OP. But Ireland has to undergo its fantastical love affair with snow before people will take this kind of advice on board. Advice that would actually make life an awful lot easier.

CIE

Hopefully Ireland won't suddenly get so cold as for cars to require engine block heaters. Cars, vans, trucks etc. do look a bit funny with plugs hanging out of their front grilles...

Heisenberg1

kenmc wrote: »

Wow, you guys sure have skinny car wheels - I have these tyres on my mountain bike!

Sweet:D

clear_sky

CIE, fortunately nor Ireland and Latvia don't have such problems These block heaters usually start using in temperature -25 C and lower, so it's common for Northern European countries- Finland etc..

dowlingm

Are studded tyres legal in Ireland? Pretty good chance they are not.

In Canada, most municipalities oblige home and business owners to clear the footpath outside their houses within 12 hours of snowfall ending, depending where you live this may be supplemented by miniploughs where the pavement is wide enough.

When applying salt try not to scatter it wildly - excess salt gets washed into the sewer system or your garden adjacent - neither is a good thing.

clear_sky

dowlingm, thanks, good advises.
I don't really know, is it oblige to clean part of pavement near your house in Ireland...but as I see, hardly someone cleans!:(

Transportuser09

The problem with investing in heavy snow ploughing equipment is that it is hard to justify considering we don't get prolonged periods of heavy snow(certainly not November to April!) in Ireland so I can't imagine local councils being able to justify the expenditure on having masses of equipment for something which normally doesn't last a few weeks, in some areas hardly ever.

Some good advice there all the same.

ardmacha

Cleaning roads with special machinery like snow ploughs

Like this, perhaps?

foggy_lad

How about they buy lighter ploughing equipment then instead of stuff that would clear the polar ice caps which is not needed here? This would probably store better during the summer and would require less servicing to get it into service each year. How about smaller ploughs that fit onto all council vehicles?

Just like in the picture above.

Ghost Train

Some years we get no snow though

foggy_lad

Ghost Train wrote: »

Some years we get no snow though

There is always snow in some areas especially mountainous areas and being prepared is always preferable to being caught with their pants around their ankles like all the councils have for a number of years.

They can't seem to get it right. One example was tonight in Prosperous a grit lorry went through spreading grit on a road clear of snow which was starting to get icy, surely they should have been using salt?

AlekSmart

How about they buy lighter ploughing equipment then instead of stuff that would clear the polar ice caps which is not needed here?

And that,Foggy_Lad,is exactly what Dept of the Environment specification and purchasing policy has been for some time now.

Virtually all of our Local Authorities are well equipped with fleets of Dual Purpose trucks from 4 to 38 Tonne capacity.

In addition many of these have additional fitments to take lightweight composite or plastic snowplough blades.

The Grtitting equipment is now generally a demountable self-contained unit powered by a donkey-engine.

This ensures that the vehicle is available for "ordinary" work during the non-snow season and is one of the few areas where we bothered to put a bit of thought into specification as opposed to buying the biggest shiniest yoke we could find.

However ,as is becoming increasingly evident this time around,our problem now is the lack of money to pay staff to work the necessary unsocial hours overtime to get the work done.

Instead we have seen many incidences this time of 0800 - 1700 weekday only gritting rather than the almost 24 hour rota`s of past years.

This "Office Hours" approach might work IF we had a similar ethic to what clear_sky describes in post #1 whereby much of the spadework is carried out by mass manual labour or even emergency military input.

We are still somewhat away from that level of response,but if things get much worse socially in Ireland it may well become a live issue yet.

My experiences over the past week has,I`m afraid merely reinforced my opinions of our current crop of "Yoof" as I bore the brunt of several "Snowball" attacks on my cab and on my passengers as they attempted to board or alight.

The preferred method of ambushing buses now appears to be sending one of their number to walk deliberately out in front of the Bus to stop it,then the rest of the savages open the rear emergency door and/or the other doors and attack the passengers inside the vehicle.

Even on my journey home as a Luas passenger I had to watch as the local bored,underpriveleged,and doubtlessly poor inner-city yoof`s attacked the Tram as it slowed to approach the Four-Courts,Smithfield,Rialto,Fatima and Bluebell stops...ah sure is`nt it great to see the chizzlers enjoying themselves.....

Nope it`s not great,but until we adapt and come to regard this type of abberant behavious for what it actually is then we`ll continue to swim along the bottom of our little pond !

DDigital

ardmacha wrote: »

Like this, perhaps?

Sums it up really. Its not hard. Very basic and adaptable equipment.

But I don't subscribe to all of the "man hours/staff shortages" argument put forward by Aleksmart. The N7 and M9 in Kildare are still down to 2 and 1 lanes respectively. Where are these snowploughs???? These roads could have been cleared today during normal hours.

DDigital

AlekSmart wrote: »

whereby much of the spadework is carried out by mass manual labour or even emergency military input.

The emergency military input was alive and well in Leixlip, Co. Kildare on Thursday and Friday of this week. They cleared Captains Hill of ice and were still on the ground by Friday afternoon clearing footpaths. Obviously nobody told the AA because up to Friday morning they were still reporting it as dangerous, which it wasn't.

This army presence in Leixlip begs the question as to why they weren't sent to, lets say Naas for example, which is in a deplorable condition. Add to that the fact that army input was used in a town, but some sections of motorways in the same county are diabolical.:rolleyes:

AlekSmart

DDigitals revelation that....

The emergency military input was alive and well in Leixlip, Co. Kildare on Thursday and Friday of this week. They cleared Captains Hill of ice and were still on the ground by Friday afternoon clearing footpaths.

...is very good news indeed,but begs the question as to why the Defence Forces capability was not bharnessed far earlier in proceedings,given that this weather event was one of the most accurately predicted for many years.

In my own area I was taken aback by the treacherous condition of the approach roads and roundabout leading to Tallaght Hospital.

Given it`s status as a significant National Medical Facility I would have expected that some effort would have been made to keep access to the National Primary network clear.

Again it comes down to manpower rather than mechanics.

A deployment of 50 soldiers to billet in the hospital grounds for the duration would have made a big contribution to improving things here but it appears to be regarded as a step-too-far in terms of responses to the emergency.

We have the equipment
We have the manpower

What we lack,even in small amounts,is forward sighted planning,management and response to allow the two elements to be fully utilized.

Maybe should ask the IMF to get more involved in running our little country ?

Losty Dublin

DDigital wrote: »

This army presence in Leixlip begs the question as to why they weren't sent to, lets say Naas for example, which is in a deplorable condition. Add to that the fact that army input was used in a town, but some sections of motorways in the same county are diabolical.:rolleyes:

RTE TV news on Thursday showed the Army shifting snow in Naas.

DDigital

Losty Dublin wrote: »

RTE TV news on Thursday showed the Army shifting snow in Naas.

Well they didn't shift much or else gave up. I was driving around the town all day and did not see the army. Of course they could've just cleared the area outside the courthouse.:D

DDigital

AlekSmart wrote: »

DDigitals revelation that....



...is very good news indeed,but begs the question as to why the Defence Forces capability was not bharnessed far earlier in proceedings,given that this weather event was one of the most accurately predicted for many years.

In my own area I was taken aback by the treacherous condition of the approach roads and roundabout leading to Tallaght Hospital.

Given it`s status as a significant National Medical Facility I would have expected that some effort would have been made to keep access to the National Primary network clear.

Again it comes down to manpower rather than mechanics.

A deployment of 50 soldiers to billet in the hospital grounds for the duration would have made a big contribution to improving things here but it appears to be regarded as a step-too-far in terms of responses to the emergency.

We have the equipment
We have the manpower

What we lack,even in small amounts,is forward sighted planning,management and response to allow the two elements to be fully utilized.

Maybe should ask the IMF to get more involved in running our little country ?

I concur and I promise not to feck a snowball at your bus again.:D

JOKE!:eek:

Davy

DDigital wrote: »

Sums it up really. Its not hard. Very basic and adaptable equipment.

But I don't subscribe to all of the "man hours/staff shortages" argument put forward by Aleksmart. The N7 and M9 in Kildare are still down to 2 and 1 lanes respectively. Where are these snowploughs???? These roads could have been cleared today during normal hours.

Their was 2 snow ploughs working like this on the N7 and during daylight hours.

DDigital wrote: »

This army presence in Leixlip begs the question as to why they weren't sent to, lets say Naas for example, which is in a deplorable condition. Add to that the fact that army input was used in a town, but some sections of motorways in the same county are diabolical.:rolleyes:

Their was two truck loads of men in naas cleaning footpaths along the town

ardmacha

Sums it up really. Its not hard. Very basic and adaptable equipment.

But I don't subscribe to all of the "man hours/staff shortages" argument put forward by Aleksmart. The N7 and M9 in Kildare are still down to 2 and 1 lanes respectively. Where are these snowploughs????

You do realise that the above picture was the M9? Perhaps the problem lies in Kildare.

Davy

DDigital wrote: »

The N7 and M9 in Kildare are still down to 2 and 1 lanes respectively.

This was the case on wednesday for awhile, but since then their has been at least 2fulllanes, and for half of it (at an estimate) three lanes are clear. Traffic was travelling at 80kph comfortably

Oh_Noes

clear_sky wrote: »

NO rubber boots – rubber it material which attracts cold, if you want to wear rubber boots, definitely wear thick wooden socks inside. Otherwise wearing rubber boot for a long time may cause some illnesses like rheumatism.

Very good advice. I never go anywhere without my thick wooden socks.

clear_sky

Unfortunately don't have time to read and understand everything properly.. but

AlekSmart wrote: »

We have the equipment
We have the manpower

What we lack,even in small amounts,is forward sighted planning,management and response to allow the two elements to be fully utilized.

Just visit any of Northern European Capital city's municipality, and ask - what they have, what they do, and in what order. Exchange of experience!

I am not really happy that country almost stops on 2 weeks, especially now because of economy we need to work hard.

The best time for snow ploughs to work is before main traffic jams, so- early morning and midday.

Oh_Noes, sure woolen Please be tolerant, it took be long time to make that post.

AlekSmart

Just visit any of Northern European Capital city's municipality, and ask - what they have, what they do, and in what order. Exchange of experience!

I agree 100% Clear_sky,in fact it was surely one of the prime reasons for this country joining the EEC back in the 1970`s.

However very few Irish politicians or administrators really understood the true meaning of our giving up the notion of an Independent wee statelet in order to become part of a greater Europe.

Worse still it was exactly these eejit`s we sent on fact-finding missions to European Capitals rather than the far more enthisiastic middle ranking foot-soldiers who would have relished the opportunities.

For most of our gang it was and remains all about how much money we could score from Europe...having to adopt to sensible efficient European practices and lifestyles never entered our minds.....jeepers just contrast a late evening journey through rural Belgium or Holland to a similar exursion in Ireland.....going to bed early and getting up early is a good example to begin with ! :eek:

Maybe this weather will give us the collective kick-in-the-arse to actually regain the ability to do stuff for ourselves again ?

foggy_lad

"and ask - what they have, what they do, and in what order. Exchange of experience!"

There have been hundreds if not thousands of County Council junkets to countries with months of snow since joining the E.E.C. years ago and they learned nothing from them!

Also to update, the M7/M9 is barely open with only one lane clear in each direction. Poor show by those councils responsible!

markpb

foggy_lad wrote: »

Also to update, the M7/M9 is barely open with only one lane clear in each direction. Poor show by those councils responsible!

Is there so much traffic at 6pm on a tail end of a freezing week to necessitate gritting all four lanes?

foggy_lad

markpb wrote: »

Is there so much traffic at 6pm on a tail end of a freezing week to necessitate gritting all four lanes?

God help anyone that breaks down or goes a bit off their lane on this road as they will be a sitting duck for trucks busses and other cars because there is nowhere to pull in as the hard shoulder is snowbound, there is also the problem that this whole area is very frequently hit with heavy fog and even this afternoon the fog was very bad. I do hope nobody is killed over the weekend!

parsi

I shuddered when I read a headline in the Berliner Morgenpostthe along the lines of

"winter service - will it work this time ?"

If the Germans can't get it right.....

clear_sky

parsi, the levels of problems differ For example last winter in Riga(Latvian capital city) we had a lots of snow... whole winter. And there were a lots of discussions in the newspapers and on TV about "Where should we place our snow?" So the traffic was Ok, pavements were clean, but in some places there were huge snowdrifts.. and politicians were discussing were to place it- drop in the river or place on some field(empty, not agricultural field, because a lots of salt in that snow may cause problems to agriculture..)
So problems exist... probably in Germany as well... but completely different level

Fortunately, there is no snow recent days...and I hope I will be able to fly away for my holiday. And when I'll be back, in a week, I'll see Ireland's usual "face"

Can't find the "Thanks" button on my screen.. anyway, Thank You to everyone!

AlekSmart

The levels of problems differ For example last winter in Riga(Latvian capital city) we had a lots of snow... whole winter.

Interesting Clear_Sky as you confirm a conversation I had with a young Latvian girl on my bus last Wednesday.

Her points were as yours are,with particular emphasis on why there are not far more people engaged in snow and ice clearance in a major city.

It`s all well and good to have lads sitin around in bars givin out to each other about how little the Gubbermint is doing,yet seeing no great reason to go out and start doing anything themselves.....this appears to b a particularly well developed trait in the modern Irish ?

The other aspect is the now totally obvious lack of any cohesive,agreed planning for this type of weather.

It should be a no-brainer to afford Public Transport some form of priority in terms of guaranteeing a level of Gritting or other treatment,such as keeping major stops free of ice and snow build up.

Yet if we take Donnybrook Bus Garage with over 220 vehicles leaving between 05.30 and 07.00 each weekday,this occurrs via a single gate and onto a short stretch of roadway which recieves no particular extra treatment from the Local Authority.

Whether or not any senior officials in Dublin City`s Administration considers there to be any merit in keeping Public Transport operating remains a moot point....:mad:

Capt'n Midnight

clear_sky wrote: »

By the way, on this picture woman is wearing not rubber but felt boots, it is hardly possible to get such in Ireland,

Felt in Ireland ?

what does one do if they get soaking wet ?


Yeah we need more joined up thinking on snow. Councils won't let farmers clear snow or spread grit because of liability claims of idiots that drive beyond their limits. (a legal problem ) In the big snow in the 1980's it took 3 days to allow the Tara mines excavators to clear roads

This sort of snow isn't an annual event, if you include January 2010 has been worse than a 1 in 10 year event, does gritting equipment last that long ?

Apparently there is a Dublin city by-law from 1899 that means business should clear the snow. In the past people used to use kettles to wash away the snow and then get sued by people slipping on ice so the culture here is to leave the snow because there is a potential downside to being a good Samaritan (again a legal problem ).


If you think it's cold now, wait until the thaw

foggy_lad

Just to follow on from what our esteemed leader Brian Cowan tells up about the advice from the Attorney General, we can clear snow without fear of being sued as long as it is done "so as not to leave any hazard"!

Now maybe others can enlighten me but whenever I have cleared snow in the past the ground below is wet and quickly freezes over leaving a more dangerous hazard than the soft snow. But also making our leaders statement about as useful as tits on a bull.

professore

Ghost Train wrote: »

Some years we get no snow though

rent it ?

Empire o de Sun

Clean your footpath when it snows. If it is done straight away ice doesn't form. I live in germany and there were no problems with footpaths. Everyone cleans the path infront of their property.

If I don't clean my path in germany and someone falls, I get sued and I can get fined for not cleaning it.

Polar101

I'm also from a country where the snowy winters last 5 months a year.. what I don't understand in Ireland, since the councils already have trucks doing the gritting, why can't they fit the same trucks with snow ploughs? (Or if that's not technically possible, then change the equipment)

Like clear_sky says, it wouldn't be too hard to get some know-how from other European cities - if snow costs 500 million a week to the Irish economy, surely it would be worth to make more of an effort? It seems ridiculous the whole country has to close down whenever there's a slight chill outside.

I don't mind working shorter days, but all my friends back home just laugh when I tell them we were let go earlier because it started snowing.

Davy

Polar101 wrote: »

I'm also from a country where the snowy winters last 5 months a year.. what I don't understand in Ireland, since the councils already have trucks doing the gritting, why can't they fit the same trucks with snow ploughs? (Or if that's not technically possible, then change the equipment)

Their is some of them around. All the M50 trucks have ploughs on front and spreaders at the back.

parsi

foggy_lad wrote: »

God help anyone that breaks down or goes a bit off their lane on this road as they will be a sitting duck for trucks busses and other cars because there is nowhere to pull in as the hard shoulder is snowbound, there is also the problem that this whole area is very frequently hit with heavy fog and even this afternoon the fog was very bad. I do hope nobody is killed over the weekend!

You do realise that there are many major roads in the country which don't have anywhere for people to pull up at any time of the year ?

Maybe a reduction of the histrionics is in order ?

Maybe we the public also have a role to play - by reducing un-needed driving, by driving cautiously etc ?

parsi

clear_sky wrote: »

parsi, the levels of problems differ For example last winter in Riga(Latvian capital city) we had a lots of snow... whole winter. And there were a lots of discussions in the newspapers and on TV about "Where should we place our snow?" So the traffic was Ok, pavements were clean, but in some places there were huge snowdrifts.. and politicians were discussing were to place it- drop in the river or place on some field(empty, not agricultural field, because a lots of salt in that snow may cause problems to agriculture..)
So problems exist... probably in Germany as well... but completely different level

That's my point. Riga gets snow every year but they don't have a plan for disposing of the snow.

Berlin's S-Bahn wil be down 200 carriages tomorrow due to a reduction in maintenance capacity following on from the poor weather. Couldn't they have planned for that ?

The City Council announced free grit/salt but it seems I'm the only person in my estate to avail of the offer. We're not frozen in but there's a bit of a hill which could benefit from grit and everyone goes up it but...

There does seem to be a mentality that "someone should do something, but not me ".

clear_sky

AlekSmart wrote: »

It should be a no-brainer to afford Public Transport some form of priority in terms of guaranteeing a level of Gritting or other treatment,such as keeping major stops free of ice and snow build up.
:

One of things about what I was positive surprised in Ireland is - special pavement surface near pedestrian crossing- kind of plates with bubbles.. I don't know what for are they, but suppose, probably for blind people, so they can feel on their sole the end of the pavement. Second - for all people, not to slip near the road... i thought - what a good idea! Because we don't have such in Latvia.. But now, all this "good idea" is covered with snow

Capt'n Midnight, there is a whole culture..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valenki
First of all in the frost they don't get wet, because there is now water on the ground in the frost( even clothes can be dried after washing) If snow starts melting(because of thaw or added salt) it is good idea to wear galoshi(rubber boots) over felt boots.. But don't think that all Latvia wears felt boots in winter It is very old fashioned.. but a real support for people who need to stay all day on the street.

One link about snow fun!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VL3IxGAnno&feature=player_embedded

clear_sky

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Councils won't let farmers clear snow or spread grit because of liability claims of idiots that drive beyond their limits. (a legal problem )

So, it is just not allowed??

Polar101

parsi wrote: »

That's my point. Riga gets snow every year but they don't have a plan for disposing of the snow.

Of course they do, but last year was a lot snowier than usually, so some special arrangements needed to be done.

Tabnabs

I was in Norway's second city (Bergen, about the same size as Cork) last winter when they had the longest and hardest winter for over 100 years there. They had all the same problems we have. Footpaths were impassible (in the city centre) and not cleared by authorities. The council was running out of sand/grit. There was so much snow that not all the roads could be cleared and some residents in the suburbs went out and bought their own snow blower type machines. The authorities couldn't find a good place to dispose of the excess snow and ended up dumping it into the sea which rightly pi$$ed off people due to the pollution it caused.

Despite having winter tyres and even studded tyres, bus services were curtailed at times as were the train services. The airport suffered delays when the runway had to be cleared time and again.

Due to cutbacks, they have gotten rid of many of the council run ploughing and gritting services and have contracts with garden centres and other business who have 4x4 pick up trucks and these are equipped with ploughs and grit spreaders. A lesson for us Irish with all our construction machinery lying idle maybe? You are contracted to do the work, if it's not done, you don't get paid.

They have snow boots (available in Ireland from the like of The Great Outdoors, 53 Degrees North etc) which are both waterproof and warm. Wellies will do nicely (I've been using a pair recently) but yes your toes do get cold. Get proper ski gloves, get those spikes for under your shoes, a good snow shovel will come in handy for the house and driveway etc. etc.

Bottom line, there is no magic wand or flawless example we can take from other countries, it's a steep learning curve and the more exposure we get to this type of weather, the better equipped we become to deal with it.

ClovenHoof

Super thread OP. You have to understand the people here in Ireland have been told by the media/government and "acedemics" that global warming was a dead cert and we should plant orange groves in the yard and build wooden decks as we would have a tropical lifestyle. See below:




There has been non stop bombardment of "warm winters coming for Ireland" for about 10 years now for the usual headcases and the morons who are currently knee deep in snow (mainly in D4) devoted to this crackpot religion that no one made any contingency just in case the "Ireland or the Tropics" never happened which they told us constantly it would of by now.

In fact, there were active witchhunts in the media, politics and especially Irish acedemic circles against anyone who said there was no hard science when you really looked. God help you if you told them Mars and even Pulto was warming up too.

Here we are.

Basically for 10 years in Ireland if you suggested we should be making contingency for all kinds of weather and not just hot weather based on a fraudulent slide show by a politician (the unspeakably vile Al Gore) who couldn't even beat a half chimp like George Bush, you were compared to a holocaust denier or some kind of conspiricy theory loon. This is what passed for debate.

There inner STAZI psychosis also came to the fore. Global Warming gave every chain smoking midget control freak with a need to prove their social enlightment to all an sundry. Remember how smugly they scewed their murcury filled lightbulbs into the socket to "stop global warming" while they looked around self-satisfied to see how many people were admiring their social and ecological responsibility?

Remember the guy from Sustainable Ireland taking the "DORT" to get married. When his wife's entire family were flown over from Australian...(just a minor detail). He also met his wife in Thailand while his organisation was telling Irish people to holiday at home? Irony means nothitng to these people.

Remember the armies of RTE corespondents, Civil Servants and Green Party members being flown at tax payers expense to Global Warming summits in Bali so they could come back and tell the rest of us it was immoral to fly... and on and on it went as the snow fell in larger numbers winter after winter... Yet you still were scared to point out how full of **** all these people were.

So people for fear of being ridiculed kept their mouths shuts. Hence what you are witnessing unfolding around you.

(Watch one of the MODS from Green Isuess will come over and declare me a "troll" and give me a lifetime banning)

Aidan1

And in other news, 2010 looks likely to be one of the warmest years on record;

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2010/20100915_globalstats.html

Clovenhoof, 'weather' is not the same thing as 'climate'.

markpb

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Super thread OP. You have to understand the people here in Ireland have been told by the media/government and "acedemics" that global warming was a dead cert and

You're wrong. They said that global warming would result in some parts of the world getting warmer (like areas around the poles which would cause melting) and other parts would get colder. They specifically said that Ireland would lose it's temperate climate.

-Chris-

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Super thread OP. You have to understand the people here in Ireland have been told

<SNIP RANT>

Wow, that's a mouthful, but can I remind you and everyone else that this is a forum for Commuting & Transport and related issues. This discussion is probably better suited to another forum.

ClovenHoof wrote: »

(Watch one of the MODS from Green Isuess will come over and declare me a "troll" and give me a lifetime banning)

The Green Issues mods (if there are such people) don't have any authority here, this is the Commuting & Transport forum. You have nothing to worry about, we'll protect you.

ClovenHoof

-Chris- wrote: »

The Green Issues mods (if there are such people) don't have any authority here, this is the Commuting & Transport forum. You have nothing to worry about, we'll protect you.

Wow! Thank you kind sir.