Some basics of Living With Snow culture

parsi

I shuddered when I read a headline in the Berliner Morgenpostthe along the lines of

"winter service - will it work this time ?"

If the Germans can't get it right.....

clear_sky

parsi, the levels of problems differ For example last winter in Riga(Latvian capital city) we had a lots of snow... whole winter. And there were a lots of discussions in the newspapers and on TV about "Where should we place our snow?" So the traffic was Ok, pavements were clean, but in some places there were huge snowdrifts.. and politicians were discussing were to place it- drop in the river or place on some field(empty, not agricultural field, because a lots of salt in that snow may cause problems to agriculture..)
So problems exist... probably in Germany as well... but completely different level

Fortunately, there is no snow recent days...and I hope I will be able to fly away for my holiday. And when I'll be back, in a week, I'll see Ireland's usual "face"

Can't find the "Thanks" button on my screen.. anyway, Thank You to everyone!

AlekSmart

The levels of problems differ For example last winter in Riga(Latvian capital city) we had a lots of snow... whole winter.

Interesting Clear_Sky as you confirm a conversation I had with a young Latvian girl on my bus last Wednesday.

Her points were as yours are,with particular emphasis on why there are not far more people engaged in snow and ice clearance in a major city.

It`s all well and good to have lads sitin around in bars givin out to each other about how little the Gubbermint is doing,yet seeing no great reason to go out and start doing anything themselves.....this appears to b a particularly well developed trait in the modern Irish ?

The other aspect is the now totally obvious lack of any cohesive,agreed planning for this type of weather.

It should be a no-brainer to afford Public Transport some form of priority in terms of guaranteeing a level of Gritting or other treatment,such as keeping major stops free of ice and snow build up.

Yet if we take Donnybrook Bus Garage with over 220 vehicles leaving between 05.30 and 07.00 each weekday,this occurrs via a single gate and onto a short stretch of roadway which recieves no particular extra treatment from the Local Authority.

Whether or not any senior officials in Dublin City`s Administration considers there to be any merit in keeping Public Transport operating remains a moot point....:mad:

Capt'n Midnight

clear_sky wrote: »

By the way, on this picture woman is wearing not rubber but felt boots, it is hardly possible to get such in Ireland,

Felt in Ireland ?

what does one do if they get soaking wet ?


Yeah we need more joined up thinking on snow. Councils won't let farmers clear snow or spread grit because of liability claims of idiots that drive beyond their limits. (a legal problem ) In the big snow in the 1980's it took 3 days to allow the Tara mines excavators to clear roads

This sort of snow isn't an annual event, if you include January 2010 has been worse than a 1 in 10 year event, does gritting equipment last that long ?

Apparently there is a Dublin city by-law from 1899 that means business should clear the snow. In the past people used to use kettles to wash away the snow and then get sued by people slipping on ice so the culture here is to leave the snow because there is a potential downside to being a good Samaritan (again a legal problem ).


If you think it's cold now, wait until the thaw

foggy_lad

Just to follow on from what our esteemed leader Brian Cowan tells up about the advice from the Attorney General, we can clear snow without fear of being sued as long as it is done "so as not to leave any hazard"!

Now maybe others can enlighten me but whenever I have cleared snow in the past the ground below is wet and quickly freezes over leaving a more dangerous hazard than the soft snow. But also making our leaders statement about as useful as tits on a bull.

professore

Ghost Train wrote: »

Some years we get no snow though

rent it ?

Empire o de Sun

Clean your footpath when it snows. If it is done straight away ice doesn't form. I live in germany and there were no problems with footpaths. Everyone cleans the path infront of their property.

If I don't clean my path in germany and someone falls, I get sued and I can get fined for not cleaning it.

Polar101

I'm also from a country where the snowy winters last 5 months a year.. what I don't understand in Ireland, since the councils already have trucks doing the gritting, why can't they fit the same trucks with snow ploughs? (Or if that's not technically possible, then change the equipment)

Like clear_sky says, it wouldn't be too hard to get some know-how from other European cities - if snow costs 500 million a week to the Irish economy, surely it would be worth to make more of an effort? It seems ridiculous the whole country has to close down whenever there's a slight chill outside.

I don't mind working shorter days, but all my friends back home just laugh when I tell them we were let go earlier because it started snowing.

Davy

Polar101 wrote: »

I'm also from a country where the snowy winters last 5 months a year.. what I don't understand in Ireland, since the councils already have trucks doing the gritting, why can't they fit the same trucks with snow ploughs? (Or if that's not technically possible, then change the equipment)

Their is some of them around. All the M50 trucks have ploughs on front and spreaders at the back.

parsi

foggy_lad wrote: »

God help anyone that breaks down or goes a bit off their lane on this road as they will be a sitting duck for trucks busses and other cars because there is nowhere to pull in as the hard shoulder is snowbound, there is also the problem that this whole area is very frequently hit with heavy fog and even this afternoon the fog was very bad. I do hope nobody is killed over the weekend!

You do realise that there are many major roads in the country which don't have anywhere for people to pull up at any time of the year ?

Maybe a reduction of the histrionics is in order ?

Maybe we the public also have a role to play - by reducing un-needed driving, by driving cautiously etc ?

parsi

clear_sky wrote: »

parsi, the levels of problems differ For example last winter in Riga(Latvian capital city) we had a lots of snow... whole winter. And there were a lots of discussions in the newspapers and on TV about "Where should we place our snow?" So the traffic was Ok, pavements were clean, but in some places there were huge snowdrifts.. and politicians were discussing were to place it- drop in the river or place on some field(empty, not agricultural field, because a lots of salt in that snow may cause problems to agriculture..)
So problems exist... probably in Germany as well... but completely different level

That's my point. Riga gets snow every year but they don't have a plan for disposing of the snow.

Berlin's S-Bahn wil be down 200 carriages tomorrow due to a reduction in maintenance capacity following on from the poor weather. Couldn't they have planned for that ?

The City Council announced free grit/salt but it seems I'm the only person in my estate to avail of the offer. We're not frozen in but there's a bit of a hill which could benefit from grit and everyone goes up it but...

There does seem to be a mentality that "someone should do something, but not me ".

clear_sky

AlekSmart wrote: »

It should be a no-brainer to afford Public Transport some form of priority in terms of guaranteeing a level of Gritting or other treatment,such as keeping major stops free of ice and snow build up.
:

One of things about what I was positive surprised in Ireland is - special pavement surface near pedestrian crossing- kind of plates with bubbles.. I don't know what for are they, but suppose, probably for blind people, so they can feel on their sole the end of the pavement. Second - for all people, not to slip near the road... i thought - what a good idea! Because we don't have such in Latvia.. But now, all this "good idea" is covered with snow

Capt'n Midnight, there is a whole culture..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valenki
First of all in the frost they don't get wet, because there is now water on the ground in the frost( even clothes can be dried after washing) If snow starts melting(because of thaw or added salt) it is good idea to wear galoshi(rubber boots) over felt boots.. But don't think that all Latvia wears felt boots in winter It is very old fashioned.. but a real support for people who need to stay all day on the street.

One link about snow fun!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VL3IxGAnno&feature=player_embedded

clear_sky

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Councils won't let farmers clear snow or spread grit because of liability claims of idiots that drive beyond their limits. (a legal problem )

So, it is just not allowed??

Polar101

parsi wrote: »

That's my point. Riga gets snow every year but they don't have a plan for disposing of the snow.

Of course they do, but last year was a lot snowier than usually, so some special arrangements needed to be done.

Tabnabs

I was in Norway's second city (Bergen, about the same size as Cork) last winter when they had the longest and hardest winter for over 100 years there. They had all the same problems we have. Footpaths were impassible (in the city centre) and not cleared by authorities. The council was running out of sand/grit. There was so much snow that not all the roads could be cleared and some residents in the suburbs went out and bought their own snow blower type machines. The authorities couldn't find a good place to dispose of the excess snow and ended up dumping it into the sea which rightly pi$$ed off people due to the pollution it caused.

Despite having winter tyres and even studded tyres, bus services were curtailed at times as were the train services. The airport suffered delays when the runway had to be cleared time and again.

Due to cutbacks, they have gotten rid of many of the council run ploughing and gritting services and have contracts with garden centres and other business who have 4x4 pick up trucks and these are equipped with ploughs and grit spreaders. A lesson for us Irish with all our construction machinery lying idle maybe? You are contracted to do the work, if it's not done, you don't get paid.

They have snow boots (available in Ireland from the like of The Great Outdoors, 53 Degrees North etc) which are both waterproof and warm. Wellies will do nicely (I've been using a pair recently) but yes your toes do get cold. Get proper ski gloves, get those spikes for under your shoes, a good snow shovel will come in handy for the house and driveway etc. etc.

Bottom line, there is no magic wand or flawless example we can take from other countries, it's a steep learning curve and the more exposure we get to this type of weather, the better equipped we become to deal with it.

ClovenHoof

Super thread OP. You have to understand the people here in Ireland have been told by the media/government and "acedemics" that global warming was a dead cert and we should plant orange groves in the yard and build wooden decks as we would have a tropical lifestyle. See below:




There has been non stop bombardment of "warm winters coming for Ireland" for about 10 years now for the usual headcases and the morons who are currently knee deep in snow (mainly in D4) devoted to this crackpot religion that no one made any contingency just in case the "Ireland or the Tropics" never happened which they told us constantly it would of by now.

In fact, there were active witchhunts in the media, politics and especially Irish acedemic circles against anyone who said there was no hard science when you really looked. God help you if you told them Mars and even Pulto was warming up too.

Here we are.

Basically for 10 years in Ireland if you suggested we should be making contingency for all kinds of weather and not just hot weather based on a fraudulent slide show by a politician (the unspeakably vile Al Gore) who couldn't even beat a half chimp like George Bush, you were compared to a holocaust denier or some kind of conspiricy theory loon. This is what passed for debate.

There inner STAZI psychosis also came to the fore. Global Warming gave every chain smoking midget control freak with a need to prove their social enlightment to all an sundry. Remember how smugly they scewed their murcury filled lightbulbs into the socket to "stop global warming" while they looked around self-satisfied to see how many people were admiring their social and ecological responsibility?

Remember the guy from Sustainable Ireland taking the "DORT" to get married. When his wife's entire family were flown over from Australian...(just a minor detail). He also met his wife in Thailand while his organisation was telling Irish people to holiday at home? Irony means nothitng to these people.

Remember the armies of RTE corespondents, Civil Servants and Green Party members being flown at tax payers expense to Global Warming summits in Bali so they could come back and tell the rest of us it was immoral to fly... and on and on it went as the snow fell in larger numbers winter after winter... Yet you still were scared to point out how full of **** all these people were.

So people for fear of being ridiculed kept their mouths shuts. Hence what you are witnessing unfolding around you.

(Watch one of the MODS from Green Isuess will come over and declare me a "troll" and give me a lifetime banning)

Aidan1

And in other news, 2010 looks likely to be one of the warmest years on record;

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2010/20100915_globalstats.html

Clovenhoof, 'weather' is not the same thing as 'climate'.

markpb

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Super thread OP. You have to understand the people here in Ireland have been told by the media/government and "acedemics" that global warming was a dead cert and

You're wrong. They said that global warming would result in some parts of the world getting warmer (like areas around the poles which would cause melting) and other parts would get colder. They specifically said that Ireland would lose it's temperate climate.

-Chris-

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Super thread OP. You have to understand the people here in Ireland have been told

<SNIP RANT>

Wow, that's a mouthful, but can I remind you and everyone else that this is a forum for Commuting & Transport and related issues. This discussion is probably better suited to another forum.

ClovenHoof wrote: »

(Watch one of the MODS from Green Isuess will come over and declare me a "troll" and give me a lifetime banning)

The Green Issues mods (if there are such people) don't have any authority here, this is the Commuting & Transport forum. You have nothing to worry about, we'll protect you.

ClovenHoof

-Chris- wrote: »

The Green Issues mods (if there are such people) don't have any authority here, this is the Commuting & Transport forum. You have nothing to worry about, we'll protect you.

Wow! Thank you kind sir.

ClovenHoof

markpb wrote: »

You're wrong. They said that global warming would result in some parts of the world getting warmer (like areas around the poles which would cause melting) and other parts would get colder. They specifically said that Ireland would lose it's temperate climate.

But the graphic on the book above shows a leaf in the shape of Ireland being sorched by the sun and not a frozen one covered in snow.

And still, with Ireland covered in ice we wait for a ship full of sand from Egypt to save us based on no one ordering the stuff because we were told that Ireland would be getting warm winters and roasting summers.

Show me one book on climate change in Ireland which shows snow and ice on the cover? One DVD or even one single media programme with this as the main, or even balanced thrust of the content.

It was always about "Ireland of the Tropics" and not Arctic Eire.

and still we wait for the roads to be gritted...

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.sbpost.ie/news/only-one-s...ads-53299.html

05 December 2010 By Nicola Cooke

Only one snow plough is in use by Dublin City Council to clear the capital’s snow-covered roads - and this is being used only on a limited basis.

While snow ploughs were dispatched by other local authorities to clear primary routes last week, these were not used to clear snow and ice-covered streets in the capital.

A Dublin City Council spokesman said that nine gritting trucks had been treating 300 kilometres of road network between 3.30am and 6am every day last week, and that 700 council workers were redeployed to treat roads and footpaths.

Only one snowplough , there isn't a huge market for more

Capt'n Midnight

clear_sky wrote: »

First of all in the frost they don't get wet, because there is now water on the ground in the frost( even clothes can be dried after washing) If snow starts melting(because of thaw or added salt) it is good idea to wear galoshi(rubber boots) over felt boots..

Not getting felt boots wet is well nigh impossible in this county. there have only been a few days recently when there wasn't slush on the pavements, and it would have been difficult to predict with certainty if you wouldn't meet slush on any particular day.

Galoshes are rare in Dublin, doubly so when you consider that we get measurable amounts of rain most days. And by rare I mean they are something I don't remember seeing on sale anywhere even though I could have done with them when cycling

Tabnabs

A snow boat (or shoe) in Ireland that can't withstand slush, salt and water is completely impracticable.

Here's what a pair of standard snowboots look like http://shop.hellyhansen.com/item?sku=10524

and

http://www.sorel.com/Men%27s-Caribou%C2%AE/NM1000,default,pd.html

Waterproof and insulated are the key requirements.

ClovenHoof

Some stores are selling these little grip thingys which clip onto your shoes to spike into the ice when you walk. Going to get a pair later.

ClovenHoof

Another aspect of this problem is nearly all the TDs in this country not being from urban backgrounds and failing to understand that predestrians walking on pavement are also "traffic" of a kind and their pavements need gritting and scraping too.

Can't imagine they would of had to deal with this on the farm/ranch or from the back seat of a Merc Limo...

Tabnabs

In case they've sold out, get them through ebay. I got them for just over €8 from the states with a delivery time of 4 days.

They have been a godsend the since the thaw has started.

bladespin

Aidan1 wrote: »

Clovenhoof, 'weather' is not the same thing as 'climate'.

Weather becomes climate in time, this is our second record breaking winter in a row, there's a trend appearing :cool:

BTW unless I'm overly reminissing the winters we had when i was a child were quite cold (though not to this extreme), it's only in the past 20(ish) years they've been moderate in my experience.

Tabnabs

Some images from Berlin, which has just received 10cm of fresh snow. Quantities are reduced and removed, but even in the mighty capital of Germany you still have to overcome the obstacle of snow and ice and get used to living with it.

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/schnee-2-dapd/3584912/4.jpg

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/berliner-neuschnee-mann-schneepflug/3584974/3.jpg

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/friedelhain-rtr/3584672/2.jpg

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/schnee-dapd/3587764/4.jpg

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/winter-frau-afp/3588072/2.jpg

http://www.tagesspiegel.de/images/berlin-strassenbahn-dpa/3585156/7.jpg

source

-Chris-

@Diflyn - Any chance you could shrink those photos?