IS AWD car good enough for these conditions

frank gooding

Just wondering would the likes of a Legacy hold up well in the snowy conditions as well as the like sof the 4x4

I guess AWD may be better on the likes of clear looking roads where unseen black ice is an issue

Whereas the 4x4 would potentially be in 2 wheeel high range at this stage.

I know 4x4 will pull well up hils and potentially tow people out of trouble better.

tonedef

It'll be better than a 2wd car but it won't be as good as a 4x4 as it'll just have regular road tyres.

Bigus

My Son Just Put winter tyres on a Legacy . Fantastic on ice and snow , only issue would have been ground clearance if it kept snowing to 3 ft. More fun than a Landcruiser etc.

Anan1

You won't get much better than a Legacy on snow & ice, Subaru and Audi are generally accepted to have the best awd systems in the business.

tony l

i drive an impreza and my brother drives a forerster..
both obv 4x4 an both of us have had no bother at all.

an both have been driving non stop.

Slogger Jogger

I've an octavia 4x4 which has higher than the standard ground clearance. Pretty good on Monday but I haven't chanced my local roads since. Just regular road tires.

Pkiernan

My AWD Lambo Super Murcielago has had some issues with ground clearance trying to get over the Wicklow pass this week

corktina

correct me if I'm wrong but isn't AWD the same as 4x4 on a four wheel vehicle? Is it not a defintion to include 6x6 vehicles (etc) and not include 4x6 etc.... (or is it 6x4?)

Tea 1000

Providing ground clearence isn't an issue, I'd wager that a Legacy on winter tyres would be better than a 4x4 like a Land Cruiser in these conditions by virtue of the fact that the 4 wheel traction would be as good and the Legacy would be a lighter car to brake going down hills etc. and easier to handle if traction was lost.

JimmyCrackCorn

Tyres make a world of difference. 4wd is great but tyres make a world fo difference across the board.

tony l

JimmyCrackCorn wrote: »

Tyres make a world of difference. 4wd is great but tyres make a world fo difference across the board.

agreed.

Anan1

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Providing ground clearence isn't an issue, I'd wager that a Legacy on winter tyres would be better than a 4x4 like a Land Cruiser in these conditions by virtue of the fact that the 4 wheel traction would be as good and the Legacy would be a lighter car to brake going down hills etc. and easier to handle if traction was lost.

+1. I'm driving a Forester on winter tyres, and it's so good it literally has me shaking my head in amazement every time I go out in it.

peasant

corktina wrote: »

correct me if I'm wrong but isn't AWD the same as 4x4 on a four wheel vehicle?

There are many labels and names out there.
Proper AWD (a torsen quattro or a Subaru ) where all wheels are permanently driven (and not just when you get slip) is absolute king in these conditions.
Put the right tyres on it and only (high) snow drifts will beat it.

On the opposite side you might have your selectable 4WD Mitsubishi L200 type pickup which on a normal road is only RWD (with a live axle and no weight over it) that will see you into a ditch quicker than you can say icy! And if you do engage 4WD on this type of vehicle, the fact that it has no centre diff will either wind up the drivetrain after a while or it might cause issues on slippery roads with rubbing tyres loosing traction.


For going off road things are reversed as an open centre diff might get you stuck pretty quickly on ondulating ground

Spudzzmurphy

peasant wrote: »

There are many labels and names out there.
Proper AWD (a torsen quattro or a Subaru ) where all wheels are permanently driven (and not just when you get slip) is absolute king in these conditions.
Put the right tyres on it and only (high) snow drifts will beat it.

On the opposite side you might have your selectable 4WD Mitsubishi L200 type pickup which on a normal road is only RWD (with a live axle and no weight over it) that will see you into a ditch quicker than you can say icy! And if you do engage 4WD on this type of vehicle, the fact that it has no centre diff will either wind up the drivetrain after a while or it might cause issues on slippery roads with rubbing tyres loosing traction.


For going off road things are reversed as an open centre diff might get you stuck pretty quickly on ondulating ground

I have, as you say "Proper AWD" on my Mazda6 MPS and I find it makes a hell of a difference in these bad conditions.

peasant

Spudzzmurphy wrote: »

I have, as you say "Proper AWD" on my Mazda6 MPS and I find it makes a hell of a difference in these bad conditions.

Same here with the Syncro. Now that I have winter tyres on, driving has become an absolute "no sweat" occasion. It was good last year on summer tyres, with the winters now it has become boringly uneventful. The only challenge now is to stay sensible and not overcook it with sheer cockiness

(because when it comes to braking, all cars are AWD)

Bigus

Earlier this year the biggest supprise to me was how much better a Landcruiser would STOP on ice with the ceter diff locked to permanent 4wd (4H). did some experiment on ice and stopping distances seemed about a 1/4 of no diff locked, at the same speed/surface.

AWD legacy in winter tyres even better stopping then Cruiser and like Peasant says way more stable than Jeep. Very easy to drift controllably aswell. Best fun ever !

Only issue would be ground clearance in deep deep snow

MarkoC

Bigus wrote: »

Only issue would be ground clearance in deep deep snow

Thats why Audi Quattros are the best cars for snow :cool:

the mucker

peasant wrote: »

Same here with the Syncro. Now that I have winter tyres on, driving has become an absolute "no sweat" occasion. It was good last year on summer tyres, with the winters now it has become boringly uneventful. The only challenge now is to stay sensible and not overcook it with sheer cockiness

(because when it comes to braking, all cars are AWD)

Learned this to my detriment in a legacy the other day:eek:. Bent wishbone and shock as a result:mad:. low profile summer tyres didnt help either. Currently driving a live rear axle grand vitara in 4l and feel much safer

Matt Simis

Spudzzmurphy wrote: »

I have, as you say "Proper AWD" on my Mazda6 MPS and I find it makes a hell of a difference in these bad conditions.

I dont think you do. The Maxda Active Torque Split system is a computer sensor affair with a heavy FWD bias. Its very similar to a Haldex system, ie its not a true mechanical, permanent AWD Torsen system as in Torsen quattro. Its designed as a part time system with economy in mind (FWD is better economy). Its usage of Sensors means slip has to occur first, then the computer sends torque to the appropriate axis.
http://www.ehow.com/how-does_5306390_mazdas-split-wheel-drive-work.html

It likely is quite good in this weather (my father has it in his CX7) but it is not up to quattro (or Scooby) level and is not permanent ("proper" if you will) AWD.

Most basically:
MATS = 100:0 (ie FWD 100%) to 50:50
Torsen quattro 4 = 50:50 or 25:75 or 75:25 (and variable)
Torsen quattro 5 = 40:60 with similar other splits but upto 80%
Also as noted, Torsen doesnt require computer sensors and wait doing nothing but powering FWD till slippage occurs, the Mazda system does.

I might take the CX7 on its big fat All Seasons and the Audi S8 on Winters to a carpark tomorrow for some "field testing".


PS: One other drawback vs quattro and other mechanical systems, is it only realistically engine brakes with 2 wheels, a quattro engine brakes 4 wheels as it is of course permanent AWD.

Pastafarian

I'm driving an A3 quattro (haldex). Its been amazing in these conditions.
Highly recommend it!

tossy

Last winter i was driving a 4motion bora (haldex on low profile goodyear F1s) it was good in terms of getting up hills and pulling off from my house which is on a slope but in terms of braking or turning corners while it might have been slightly more stable than a 2wd car it wasn't amazing.also driving along on a really icey road i could constantly feel the car twitch (slightly but i noticed it) as the haldex and EBD tried to figure out where to send or reduce the power.

This winter i have a quattro car with winter tyres on,there is simply no comparison - as was said if ground clearance wasn't an issue it would take any jeep on and probably come out on top,i was driving some really bad country roads recently with a friends dad behind me in a rangerover (non winter tyres)and he simply couldn't keep my pace (of course we weren't racing but he just couldn't take corners with the confidence i could)

Biglad

During the 08/09 winter I drove a new model Santa Fe. Once i got used to driving something with the Hyundai badge I must say I enjoyed every single of the 160K kilometers I drove in it, especially in the snow. What a fantastic vehicle that was (still is as current owner is still very happy, has over 200K up now).
My SAAB 93 is useless in the current conditions and I am kicking myself now that I didn't order my winter tyres sooner.

The AWD system in the Hyundai was an "on demand" job, 2 wheel drive most of the time untill wheel slip was detected and then the rears would kick in. You could also push a button which made it constant 4wd but only up till speeds of 30mls/hr. I know what my next car is going to be...

redcube

A Ford Transit mk5 is no good in the snow though I'd let you know rwd no wight over the back wheels you do the maths

bmw535d

get your self a pajero or shogun, rwd on normal roads then you just have to clutch and shift into 4wd wile moving up to 60mph,unlike most 2wd/4wd systems where you have to stop dead which is a b*lls if your trying to get up a hill as you loose all your momentum. you can also lock the center diff 50/50 and they have a limited slip at the back or an electronically locking read diff if your in 2+ feet of snow etc,youd get a nice 7 seater now for 3k.

pburns

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Providing ground clearence isn't an issue, I'd wager that a Legacy on winter tyres would be better than a 4x4 like a Land Cruiser in these conditions by virtue of the fact that the 4 wheel traction would be as good and the Legacy would be a lighter car to brake going down hills etc. and easier to handle if traction was lost.

JimmyCrackCorn wrote: »

Tyres make a world of difference. 4wd is great but tyres make a world fo difference across the board.

I put Goodyear F1s on my Legacy this year and I've found out they are quite weak on snow. It's not as planted as last year (on Potanzas) but still better than a FWD car I drove today. Wheels spun going up an incline the Subaru hasn't even noticed all week.

I have a Navara as well. Big rugged tyres definitely an advantage for grip but that's off-set by extra weight, lightness over rear-axle and most crucially, high c of g. A Legacy/Quattro or Outback/All-Road with good all-round tyres would be better than any off-roader...

BTW - I've noticed so many MUPPETS (usually complacent 4wd drivers) coming towards me this week using a mobile:mad::mad::mad:...