Paul Scholes(in prime) vs. Xavi

DOC09UNAM

Dcully wrote: »

idiotic results?

The vastly better player got more votes, seems far from idiotic to me.

Should have elaborated further, I also voted for Xavi as it is undeniable, he is definitely the best midfielder I have ever seen in my lifetime.

I meant moreso some of the idiotic posts that have been made, not the actual poll result.

neil.p.b

I'd like to see Xavi do what he does in the premier league, he wouldn't get half as much time on the ball. Having said that i do think Xavi is better technically, better passer and better controller of a game, but having said that i'd have scholes, he does more for the team

krankykitty

It doesn't matter which one is better. It's been a privilege to watch both in action

Plus it's hard to pick at this stage, both at different stages and surrounded by different types of player.

SlickRic

neil.p.b wrote: »

I'd like to see Xavi do what he does in the premier league, he wouldn't get half as much time on the ball.

he'd just get fouled a lot more.

neil.p.b wrote: »

Having said that i do think Xavi is better technically, better passer and better controller of a game, but having said that i'd have scholes, he does more for the team

if the only thing Scholes is better at is shooting (which is the only thing i can think you have him ahead on if Xavi's better at all those things), then how does he do more for the team?

do you just like gingers or something?

gosplan

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Should have elaborated further, I also voted for Xavi as it is undeniable, he is definitely the best midfielder I have ever seen in my lifetime.

I meant moreso some of the idiotic posts that have been made, not the actual poll result.

Scholes getting 30% is pretty idiotic IMO.

neil.p.b

SlickRic wrote: »

he'd just get fouled a lot more.

True. But he would also have far less time than he does in la liga, if someone wasn't already marking him the second he got the ball someone would be running towards him, watch any la liga match, the opposition might slowly jog towards him. But again, i'm not putting him down, put him in the premier league and he'd be awesome, but i just don't think he'd be as good at doing what he does.

SlickRic wrote: »

if the only thing Scholes is better at is shooting (which is the only thing i can think you have him ahead on if Xavi's better at all those things), then how does he do more for the team?

Shooting, heading, and obviously because of that better goal scorer as a whole, and it's not just the number of goals it's the goals he got over they years, how important they were. Better work rate, he was box to box in his prime, got so many more tackles in (good or bad!) than xavi.


But let me rephrase my original statement and sit on the fence a bit here! If i was making a dream team with 2 CM's i'd have scholes. If it was with 3 CM's i'd have Xavi

Blatter

Will dig this thread up in a couple of years and see what people think then.
It's amazing how alot of fans' opinons are influenced by the last 2 years and they seem to just conventially seem to forget about the years before that. Scholes has been consistently great for the last 10+ years. Xavi has been less so, don't forget it wasn't that long ago when the likes of Baraja, Albelda, Valeron and Mendieta were ahead of Xavi in the national pecking order.

DOC09UNAM

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

Will dig this thread up in a couple of years and see what people think then.
It's amazing how alot of fans' opinons are influenced by the last 2 years and they seem to just conventially seem to forget about the years before that. Scholes has been consistently great for the last 10+ years. Xavi has been less so, don't forget it wasn't that long ago when the likes of Baraja, Albelda, Valeron and Mendieta were ahead of Xavi in the national pecking order.

What point are you making?

That xavi has improved greatly recently and that goes against him?

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

DOC09UNAM

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The international route is the stupidest route that comes up all the time in these threads, it is ridiculous.

SantryRed

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Regardless of what you say about Xavi he is clearly a Scholes fan boy and he won't take anything on board. Obvious since the first post. Ridiculous thread.

SantryRed

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

Will dig this thread up in a couple of years and see what people think then.
It's amazing how alot of fans' opinons are influenced by the last 2 years and they seem to just conventially seem to forget about the years before that. Scholes has been consistently great for the last 10+ years. Xavi has been less so, don't forget it wasn't that long ago when the likes of Baraja, Albelda, Valeron and Mendieta were ahead of Xavi in the national pecking order.

Well tbh you can only compare Xavi and Scholes in the last few years as it's only now that they're the same type of player.

Dolph Starbeam

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

Will dig this thread up in a couple of years and see what people think then.
It's amazing how alot of fans' opinons are influenced by the last 2 years and they seem to just conventially seem to forget about the years before that. Scholes has been consistently great for the last 10+ years. Xavi has been less so, don't forget it wasn't that long ago when the likes of Baraja, Albelda, Valeron and Mendieta were ahead of Xavi in the national pecking order.

Since he was about 22 he has a Spain regular and has played in or around 100 caps compared to the 60 odd Scholes has played. Scholes was brilliant and is one of the very few Man U or England players i actually really like but Xavi is pure class. I'm sure you're right and a lot of people on here have been influenced by the last 2 years and rightly so because the last 2 years he has been phenomenal, but he has been brilliant for a long time before that which anyone who followed La Liga will know.

eZe^

The fact that all you people and the British media are only recognising Xavi's genius now, that's a fault that lies with yourselves and not Xavi. Xavi has been consistently breathtaking for the best part of a decade.

Lukker-

This thread is a load of sh*te, Scholes in his prime was an attacking midfielder, only as he has gotten older and lost some of his fitness has he played deeper so the comparison is complete load of ****e.

DOC09UNAM

Lukker- wrote: »

This thread is a load of sh*te, Scholes in his prime was an attacking midfielder, only as he has gotten older and lost some of his fitness has he played deeper so the comparison is complete load of ****e.

Perfectly unbiased view of this thread.

Warper

Zidane was the best midfielder up to when he retired, since then Xavi has been the best. Xavi will go down as one of the greats of World Football. Scholes will go down as one of the greats of Man Utd. - BIG difference.

Davaeo09

Xavi, a class apart.

Blatter

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

What point are you making?

That xavi has improved greatly recently and that goes against him?

If this thread had been held two years ago, the results would be completely different, IMO.

Just making the point that all to often players are judged over the short term, and people forget about the past, or the past becomes somewhat irrelevant.

eZe^

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

If this thread had been held two years ago, the results would be completely different, IMO.

Just making the point that all to often players are judged over the short term, and people forget about the past, or the past becomes somewhat irrelevant.

And again, I'll say that the results being different would be because of ignorance in the voters, not because Xavi has only magically become world class in the past 2 years. He has been one of the best midfielders in the game for the past decade ffs. Just because you and sky didn't acknowledge it doesn't make it untrue.

gosplan

Warper wrote: »

Zidane was the best midfielder up to when he retired, since then Xavi has been the best. Xavi will go down as one of the greats of World Football. Scholes will go down as one of the greats of Man Utd. - BIG difference.

Out of curiosity, has Scholes ever been recognised for anything outside England?

gosplan

eZe^ wrote: »

And again, I'll say that the results being different would be because of ignorance in the voters, not because Xavi has only magically become world class in the past 2 years. He has been one of the best midfielders in the game for the past decade ffs. Just because you and sky didn't acknowledge it doesn't make it untrue.

Xavi was voted Spanish player of the year in La Liga six years ago.

Blatter

eZe^ wrote: »

The fact that all you people and the British media are only recognising Xavi's genius now, that's a fault that lies with yourselves and not Xavi. Xavi has been consistently breathtaking for the best part of a decade.

Scholes has been equally breathtaking for the best part of a decade, if people can't recognise that, then that's a fault that lies with themselves and not Scholes.

eZe^

gosplan wrote: »

Xavi was voted Spanish player of the year in La Liga six years ago.

Eh? What has Xavi winning a Spanish award from a Spanish magazine for being the best Spanish player in the Spanish league have anything to do with my point about people from the British Isles and the British media underrating him massively up until 2 years ago?

Out of curiosity, has Scholes ever been recognised for anything outside England?

Yes, he's probably universally recognised as the most gifted midfielder England has ever produced by most foreign supporters of the game.

Blatter

gosplan wrote: »

Out of curiosity, has Scholes ever been recognised for anything outside England?

To the best of my knowledge, he has never been even been nominated for the Ballon d'Or or European player of the year..

I remember a few years ago FIFA released a list of the top 50 players in europe and Scholes didn't get in it. Ferguson and Keane said at the time it was an absolute disgrace.

Scholes has been consistently overlooked by FIFA and UEFA over the years, only because he lives his life the complete opposite of the modern day footballer. He stays out of the media spotlight and dosen't even have an agent.

The Floyd p

Xavi every day of the week. Don't get me wrong, Scholes was/is a great player and his praise is just but Xavi is on another level!

I love Barcelona so my vote is biased but Xavi just oozes quality.
IMO the 2nd best midfielder ever after Zizou.

Blatter

Here's a few quotes just to show how highly regarded Scholes is by his peers.

Eidur Gudjohnsen : "I'm more an admirer of Paul Scholes than I am of Ronaldo. Ronaldo is a fantastic player, but he has 10 other great players around him every week...Scholes is one of the most complete footballers I've ever seen. His one-touch play is phenomenal. Whenever I have played against him, I never felt I could get close to him."

Edgar Davids : ""Every one of us (midfielders) is just trying to become as good as him. Everyone can learn from Paul Scholes."

Thierry Henry : "I can't understand why Scholes has never won the player of the year award. He should have won it long ago. Maybe it's because he doesn't seek the limelight like some of the other 'stars'."

Zinedine Zidane : "My toughest opponent? Scholes of Manchester. He is the complete midfielder. He was an extremely tough opponent to play against," Zizou continued. "You didn’t get any time on the ball when he was around. He would close you down and make your life terribly uncomfortable.''

Zinedine Zidane : "Scholes is undoubtedly the best midfielder of his generation. He’s almost untouchable in what he does. I never tire of watching him play. You rarely come across the complete footballer, but Scholes is as close to it as you can get.
“One of my regrets is that the opportunity to play alongside him never presented itself during my career.”

Marcello Lippi : "Paul Scholes would have been one of my first choices for putting together a great team - that goes to show how highly I have always rated him. Scholes is a player I have always liked, because he combines great talent and technical ability with mobility, determination and a superb shot. He is an all-round midfielder who possesses character and quality in abundance. In my opinion, he's been one of the most important players for United under Sir Alex."

David Beckham said that, among his teammates at Real Madrid, which included Zinedine Zidane, Raúl, Ronaldo, Luís Figo and Roberto Carlos, Scholes was the most admired opponent : "He's always one of those people others talk about. Even playing at Real Madrid, the players always say to me 'what's he like'?

I think the bit I highlighted in bold is highly underestimated.

#15

gosplan wrote: »

Out of curiosity, has Scholes ever been recognised for anything outside England?

Yes. Widely.

Don't assume that the lack of awareness in these Isles is replicated throughout Europe.

Degag

Xavi6 wrote: »

No he isn't, don't be silly.

It's not a silly notion though is it? While not exactly the same type of player, Xavi and Iniesta share alot of similar traits. Both absolutely suberb players.

Blatter

Degag wrote: »

It's not a silly notion though is it? While not exactly the same type of player, Xavi and Iniesta share alot of similar traits. Both absolutely suberb players.

Nope not a silly notion at all.

It's worth pointing out that Iniesta is only 26.

It's fair to say that when Xavi was 26, he wasn't as good as Iniesta is now.

Will be interesting to see how he develops over the next few years...

Hulk Hands

Scholes for me. Easily. Scholes has consistently been the Premier league's best player for the past 12 years. His way of controlling the tempo of the game, bringing others into play is phenomenal. At age 36, he is still one of the best passers of the ball in the world.

Scholes has been completely underrated throughout his career, probably down to his shy nature. Another reason has been the players around him such as Keane, Beckham, Ronaldo. Big characters demanding the limelight. What people fail to realise is that it was Scholes who made United tick.

His best year was 2006-2007 imo. At age 32, with Chelsea seeming an unstoppable force in the Premier League, Scholes was sensational. Completely ran every game he played. Ronaldo grabbed the headlines that year, but it was Scholes who constantly found him in space, who constantly made interceptions to launch United onto another counter.

A completely underrated part of Scholes game is his defensive side. People see rash tackles and assume he can't tackle for s***. Wrong. Im convinced, as are many professional's, that he does this on purpose. It is his way of getting in players heads, and showing that he, as the small guy, isn't going to be pushed around.

People fail to see how many times Scholes wins the ball back, through tackles and interceptions. An example would be the 1st leg of the champions league semi final in 2008. Barcelona were attempting to play their tippy-tappy pass pass pass game that serves them so well. Scholes was phenomenal. I lost count of how many times he intercepted them. It was a major mistake of Fergie's not to play Scholes in the CL final in 2009. In the end, Scholes sealed that semi final with a wonder goal in the 2nd leg. His opponent over them 2 legs...oh yeah, Xavi.

This is the same Xavi that couldn't make the Barcelona side in 2006 right? At age 26? Dont get me wrong, he is a superb player, the best CM in the world at the moment. But he has been great for what, 2-3 years? He has some way to go to match Scholes 12 years of being great. Xavi is becoming excellent in the latter stages of his career. Scholes has been excellent throughout his career. And noone can convince that Xavi at his very best will ever be as good as Scholes in his best season (2006).

Also, I can only imagine what Scholes would do if he has the chance to play with Messi, Iniesta and Villa. The list of quotes above make great reading.

The Floyd p

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Scholes for me. Easily. Scholes has consistently been the Premier league's best player for the past 12 years. His way of controlling the tempo of the game, bringing others into play is phenomenal. At age 36, he is still one of the best passers of the ball in the world.

Scholes has been completely underrated throughout his career, probably down to his shy nature. Another reason has been the players around him such as Keane, Beckham, Ronaldo. Big characters demanding the limelight. What people fail to realise is that it was Scholes who made United tick.

His best year was 2006-2007 imo. At age 32, with Chelsea seeming an unstoppable force in the Premier League, Scholes was sensational. Completely ran every game he played. Ronaldo grabbed the headlines that year, but it was Scholes who constantly found him in space, who constantly made interceptions to launch United onto another counter.

A completely underrated part of Scholes game is his defensive side. People see rash tackles and assume he can't tackle for s***. Wrong. Im convinced, as are many professional's, that he does this on purpose. It is his way of getting in players heads, and showing that he, as the small guy, isn't going to be pushed around.

People fail to see how many times Scholes wins the ball back, through tackles and interceptions. An example would be the 1st leg of the champions league semi final in 2008. Barcelona were attempting to play their tippy-tappy pass pass pass game that serves them so well. Scholes was phenomenal. I lost count of how many times he intercepted them. It was a major mistake of Fergie's not to play Scholes in the CL final in 2009. In the end, Scholes sealed that semi final with a wonder goal in the 2nd leg. His opponent over them 2 legs...oh yeah, Xavi.

This is the same Xavi that couldn't make the Barcelona side in 2006 right? At age 26? Dont get me wrong, he is a superb player, the best CM in the world at the moment. But he has been great for what, 2-3 years? He has some way to go to match Scholes 12 years of being great. Xavi is becoming excellent in the latter stages of his career. Scholes has been excellent throughout his career. And noone can convince that Xavi at his very best will ever be as good as Scholes in his best season (2006).

Also, I can only imagine what Scholes would do if he has the chance to play with Messi, Iniesta and Villa. The list of quotes above make great reading.

1.When Xavi's 36 I'm sure he'll still be a fantastic passer of the ball.

2. Xavi played 22 games that season because he suffered a serious injury which kept him out for 5 months. So you're wrong there.

3. Last season and the season before.

Nalz

neil.p.b wrote: »

I'd like to see Xavi do what he does in the premier league, he wouldn't get half as much time on the ball. Having said that i do think Xavi is better technically, better passer and better controller of a game, but having said that i'd have scholes, he does more for the team

Exactly, put him in a two man midfield in the premiership...see how he does. He's a great player. I've always loved Iniesta though, and Scholesy has had his poor games, injuries and late tackles.

Blatter

The Floyd p wrote: »

1.When Xavi's 36 I'm sure he'll still be a fantastic passer of the ball. It remains to be seen if Xavi will be playing at the highest level at 36.

2. Xavi played 22 games that season because he suffered a serious injury which kept him out for 5 months. So you're wrong there. Fair enough

3. Last season and the season before. That's Debateable.

Do you accept that Scholes' defensive side of the game is vastly superior to Xavis?

Hulk Hands

The Floyd p wrote: »

1.When Xavi's 36 I'm sure he'll still be a fantastic passer of the ball.

2. Xavi played 22 games that season because he suffered a serious injury which kept him out for 5 months. So you're wrong there.

3. Last season and the season before.

Probably, so we'll have to see if he can still retain a place in one of Europe's premier sides at age 36 though.

Fair enough on point 2. But can you honestly say that Xavi was a World class CM until 2007 at the earliest? I dont think so. Also to the numerous people saying Xavi was player of the tournament at Euro 2008, was that not Senna? I seem to remember Senna being by far and away Spain's best midfielder during that tournament.

That's your own opinion. While he has been great, I dont think it matches up to Scholes in 06-07. Tbh, I think Iniesta was as good as Xavi over them 2 seasons.

Xavi6

Trilla wrote: »

Exactly, put him in a two man midfield in the premiership...see how he does. He's a great player. I've always loved Iniesta though, and Scholesy has had his poor games, injuries and late tackles.

Why does the Premier League have to be the measure of how good a player is?

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Probably, so we'll have to see if he can still retain a place in one of Europe's premier sides at age 36 though.

Fair enough on point 2. But can you honestly say that Xavi was a World class CM until 2007 at the earliest? I dont think so. Also to the numerous people saying Xavi was player of the tournament at Euro 2008, was that not Senna? I seem to remember Senna being by far and away Spain's best midfielder during that tournament.

Yes I can, quite comfortabl. Just because the collective football world didn't bother to take notice before then doesn't mean it wasn't happening.

That's your own opinion. While he has been great, I dont think it matches up to Scholes in 06-07. Tbh, I think Iniesta was as good as Xavi over them 2 seasons.

He doesn't just measure Scholes for that season, he betters it.

Scholes has been a superb player and deserves all the plaudits but his over exposure due to playing for United in the Premier League means people rate him higher than they should, i.e. better than Xavi.

DOC09UNAM

Xavi6 wrote: »

Why does the Premier League have to be the measure of how good a player is?



Yes I can, quite comfortabl. Just because the collective football world didn't bother to take notice before then doesn't mean it wasn't happening.



He doesn't just measure Scholes for that season, he betters it.

Scholes has been a superb player and deserves all the plaudits but his over exposure due to playing for United in the Premier League means people rate him higher than they should, i.e. better than Xavi.

How is it over exposure?

Hulk Hands

Xavi6 wrote: »

Scholes has been a superb player and deserves all the plaudits but his over exposure due to playing for United in the Premier League means people rate him higher than they should, i.e. better than Xavi.

Ah look, I respect your opinions on the matter but thats complete b******S.

Due to Scholes aversion to the media it means he has never been rated as highly as he should. i.e. He has never won the domestic or World awards he deserves. The Keane's, Ronaldo's, Beckham's, even Giggs have always taken the plaudits for United, but the mature fans that watch United week in week out always come back to Scholes as being our greatest.

Here is your quote with a few words swapped around and it makes just as much sense.


"Xavi has been a superb player and deserves all the plaudits but his over exposure due to playing for Barca in La Liga means people rate him higher than they should"

Nalz

Xavi6 wrote: »

Why does the Premier League have to be the measure of how good a player is?

Its not, its the type of player he is and the point being made before me about time etc...

I dont know where I stand on whether its the best league in the world or not. I would say its faster and tougher physically.

Take the game on the tv right now, Everton and Chelsea. 90miles an hour. I've never seen Spain or Barca play in a game like that.

I'm not saying he'd fail miserably it would be very interesting to see Xavi in a 4-4-2 on a wet evening against Millwall in the cup

Xavi6

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

How is it over exposure?

Because people in the UK/Ireland see more of Scholes. I'd have thought that was fairly self explanatory and hardly a revolutionary suggestion.

Warper

Trilla wrote: »

Its not, its the type of player he is and the point being made before me about time etc...

I dont know where I stand on whether its the best league in the world or not. I would say its faster and tougher physically.

Take the game on the tv right now, Everton and Chelsea. 90miles an hour. I've never seen Spain or Barca play in a game like that.

I'm not saying he'd fail miserably it would be very interesting to see Xavi in a 4-4-2 on a wet evening against Millwall in the cup

What absolute crap

Warper

gosplan wrote: »

Out of curiosity, has Scholes ever been recognised for anything outside England?

No he hasnt. Never nominated for European player of the year or World player of the year, I wonder why?

Warper

Scholes has been a bit part player for the last couple of seasons. The fact he plays every now and again at 36 illustrates what an average midfield Utd has more than anything else. Scholes might be worshipped at Utd but Xavi is worshipped by the World.

Blatter

Warper wrote: »

No he hasnt. Never nominated for European player of the year or World player of the year, I wonder why?

This.

Thierry Henry : "I can't understand why Scholes has never won the player of the year award. He should have won it long ago. Maybe it's because he doesn't seek the limelight like some of the other 'stars'."

DOC09UNAM

Xavi6 wrote: »

Because people in the UK/Ireland see more of Scholes. I'd have thought that was fairly self explanatory and hardly a revolutionary suggestion.

I'm not picking at the suggestion, i'm just wondering why you consider it over exposure, most of the people can see the same amount of xavi if they wish, surely he's earned the exposure by being the fantastic player he is?

Same with xavi imo.

Nalz

Warper wrote: »

What absolute crap

Explain. What do others think of my points out of interest?

Do people agree the game is faster paced and more physical in England?
Would people like to see Xavi in a 4-4-2 against a CHampionship side for a poorer side?

Hardly crap. Sign of boards lately. People who arent trolling make a point/opinion and get one line replies like "absolute crap".

Xavi6

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

I'm not picking at the suggestion, i'm just wondering why you consider it over exposure, most of the people can see the same amount of xavi if they wish, surely he's earned the exposure by being the fantastic player he is?

Same with xavi imo.

I agree, most of the people can see the same amount. How many actually do though? How many posters here do you think watch as much La Liga as they do Premier League? I certainly don't, but I have watched Xavi closely for over a decade.

Barcelona weren't a dominant force really prior to 2006 or so, hence people questioning Xavi was that good before that time.

He was though, people just didn't see enough of him regularly to notice.

DOC09UNAM

Xavi6 wrote: »

I agree, most of the people can see the same amount. How many actually do though? How many posters here do you think watch as much La Liga as they do Premier League? I certainly don't, but I have watched Xavi closely for over a decade.

Barcelona weren't a dominant force really prior to 2006 or so, hence people questioning Xavi was that good before that time.

He was though, people just didn't see enough of him regularly to notice.

True point I Guess, but shouldn't that be labelled more to peoples ignorance to talk about things they don't know, rather than over exposure?

Xavi6

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

True point I Guess, but shouldn't that be labelled more to peoples ignorance to talk about things they don't know, rather than over exposure?

It's much of a muchness really. If something's on your doorstep chances are you will see more of it and may even be an 'expert', hence the waxing lyrical about Scholes (most of it justified of course).

When someone outside your knowledge bubble comes along then he's not going to be held in as high regard for obvious reasons, i.e. lack of exposure.

DOC09UNAM

Xavi6 wrote: »

It's much of a muchness really. If something's on your doorstep chances are you will see more of it and may even be an 'expert', hence the waxing lyrical about Scholes (most of it justified of course).

When someone outside your knowledge bubble comes along then he's not going to be held in as high regard for obvious reasons, i.e. lack of exposure.

I know what you're saying, and I'd tend t agree to a point.

But if there is a discussion between who is the better player, i'd prefer to listen to people who have paid attention to both, instead of just the one.