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Worst Irish person in history

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Comments

  • #452
    Cody Pomeray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,648 ✭✭✭Cody Pomeray


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    Collins himself from accounts of Birkenhead and Churchill acquitted himself quite well over there, they were impressed by him.
    Impressed by him, or delighted with what they saw coming, I wonder.


  • #453
    Riddle101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,456 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    But no, I don't think it's accurate to say there was an inevitability that the negotiations would end in tears, much less to say it would end in civil war.

    Like I said before, the whole thing was just messed up. They went at it the wrong way at the time, and in the end did end in tears. Looking back on it from a revisionist point of view, it was inevitable when you see what Collins had to deal with.

    Looking at it from that time though. You have to wonder what Collins went through in those negotiations. The whole country's faith in his hands, and he had to make a tough decision. But as I said, if they had a better negotiation team with DeValera in it, maybe things would be better.
    In the heat of the moment, in 1923, Collins was forgiven. I wouldn't exactly hold that against anyone who supported him at that time. Today, with the benefit of looking at the negotiations rationally, it's clear that Collins behaved either improperly or irresponsibly.

    A tough call he had to make, one that no one should have to bare. But he was pressured to make a decision by Britain, and he made it. It was believed that Northern Ireland would also become part of Ireland as well, or at least the nationalist areas and the remaining counties would eventually join us again, but it never came to be. But that has more to do with Northern Ireland, and the Unionist down there.


  • #454
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    The Boundary Commission was what the British delegation tried to sell. Once conducted and implemented the Unionist counties would eventually fall into the free state for economic reasons. (Gov of Ireland Act 1920 and the two parliaments would merge)

    As we know now it was a complete disaster and it's proposals were abandoned. However even at the time I don't think anyone at the table actually believed this would ever happen. Britain's hands were tied, there had to be a compromise, the Unionists in the North weren't going to stand for being ruled from Dublin and the Catholic south.


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