What is the way forward for domestic football ?

Mister men

Join up with the Scottish and North of Ireland leagues.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Athlone? Longford?

Longford is 2 hours away from me and Athlone is about an hour and a half, whereas Tallaght is about an hour.

bohsfan

I think that a complete overhaul of the youth structure would lead to a resurgence in the league. I'm not up to speed with exactly how the youth systems work at the moment, but it appears to me that you have local set-ups (of varying standards) at club level, then you have the FAI programmes, which are often accused of having a Dublin bias.

My idea would be this:

The FAI should administer the running of the youth teams of all league clubs. Full-time and part-time, fully accredited coaches, would coach the local youth teams on the ground. There would then be regular games scheduled between regional youth teams. This would provide a breeding ground for the actual international youth teams. Having dedicated FAI coaches embedded into each teams set-up would ensure that talented youth would not slip through the net, with more talented kids making the step up to the first team thus improving the standard up there.

Maybe something like this is already underway and I'm just not aware of it. Players will always move across the water if they are talented enough due to the money on offer, but the more kids that are seen to start their career playing locally, the more interest will be generated in the LOI

bohsman

People are upset that its practically a Dublin league but would refuse to support a team from outside their parish?

stovelid

the untitled user wrote: »

More like "I have no affinity with my nearest professional team because it has no connection with my community or locality, so I support the team of my family/friends/favourite player that just happen to be one of the biggest clubs in the world and win things"

fixed your post

wexfordia

TheBigLebowski wrote: »

Do you support any LOI clubs?

I don't support any LOI club as such but I do follow the league,ie the results/live games on tv/MNS etc.Why do you ask ??

dsmythy

I've always wished for a full league structure right to the very bottom of football in Ireland. I think I'll be wishing for a long time.

Since the whole 1 step forward and 10 steps back has failed over the last few years, taking 10 steps back and aiming for many more forward in the future seems the best option. Divert money into facilities and player/coaching development and take the pain of lower standards for the next few years in the hope that it pays off down the line.

bohsman

dsmythy wrote: »

I've always wished for a full league structure right to the very bottom of football in Ireland. I think I'll be wishing for a long time.

Since the whole 1 step forward and 10 steps back has failed over the last few years, taking 10 steps back and aiming for many more forward in the future seems the best option. Divert money into facilities and player/coaching development and take the pain of lower standards for the next few years in the hope that it pays off down the line.

Agreed, it has worked in Germany on a far larger scale

Gavin "shels"

wexfordia wrote: »

I don't support any LOI club as such but I do follow the league,ie the results/live games on tv/MNS etc.Why do you ask ??

Wexford Youths? I say he asked do you support a LoI as your mentality seems very off, scraping all teams and setting up regional franchises, etc...

stovelid

bohsman wrote: »

People are upset that its practically a Dublin league

The best teams end up in the premier.

If country teams can't get promoted on their own steam, what do they want; a bye into the premier division?

the untitled user

stovelid wrote: »

The best teams end up in the premier.

If country teams can't get promoted on their own steam, what do they want; a bye into the premier division?

a decent football pitch would be nice tbh.

Wolfe Tone

I dont see domestic football ever being at a decent level tbh, destined to be mickey mouse imo, unless English football collapses.

OhNoYouDidn't

bohsman wrote: »

People are upset that its practically a Dublin league but would refuse to support a team from outside their parish?

Exactly. The 'there is no club near me' line is yet another excuse from the consumers of foreign sport over why they refuse to be fans of Irish sport.

OhNoYouDidn't

Einhard wrote: »

I think it would be silly if it was the only reason for not supporting an Irish team. But most people, myself included, have various reasons for supporting English football teams, and like all such things, they're generally emotional, rather than logical. I really don't see how I, living in the south east, should have any more affinity with, say, Finn Harps than with Liverpool. Indeed, goven local rivalry etc, the idea of shouting for a Waterford or an Offaly team would be anathema to most people I know!

Do you want to look at that sentance rationally? Because it makes no logical sense whatsoever.

Could you imagine someone in the South East of England picking a Spanish side because there was no professional side in his town? Of course not, because its a bizarre idea

OhNoYouDidn't

the untitled user wrote: »

More like "I have no affinity with my nearest professional team because I would have to get off my arse, so I support the team that are winning the EPL at the moment from the comfort of my armchair / barstool"

Fixed part 2.

If you prefer to watch foreign football - fine, enjoy. But don't pretend its anything other than the easy option.

Wolfe Tone

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Fixed part 2.

If you prefer to watch foreign football - fine, enjoy. But don't pretend its anything other than the easy option.

This type of pure bollocks always pisses me off.

"Im a better fan than you because I support my local team" Its just stupid.

OhNoYouDidn't

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

This type of pure bollocks always pisses me off.

"Im a better fan than you because I support my local team" Its just stupid.

No its not. I'm a 'better fan' because I go week in week out, help fundraise and volunteer to help out. You cannot say your average EPL fan has the same attachment to whatever team they arbitraily picked when they were 10 and whose home city they are unlikely to have ever been to.

OhNoYouDidn't

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I dont see domestic football ever being at a decent level tbh, destined to be mickey mouse imo, unless English football collapses.

Aren't you a Celtic man? If the LoI is 'mickey mouse' what in the name of all that is holy is the Scottish League at the moment?

Einhard

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Do you want to look at that sentance rationally? Because it makes no logical sense whatsoever.

Could you imagine someone in the South East of England picking a Spanish side because there was no professional side in his town? Of course not, because its a bizarre idea

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Do you want to look at that sentance rationally? Because it makes no logical sense whatsoever.

Could you imagine someone in the South East of England picking a Spanish side because there was no professional side in his town? Of course not, because its a bizarre idea

What you're saying, that I should support a team with which I have absolutely no affinity, no connection, purely because it's Irish, doesn't make rational sense. The reason I support Liverpool is because I have family member swho do so, and they intorduced me. There's more rationale in that, than in supporting Finn Harps or Bohs because I happen to live in the country where they're based.
And as I said, support is far more local in Ireland than it is in England, partly because of the legacy of the GAA. I can't imagine being able to support a Waterford team in any meaningful way.

Incidentally, I did support my local club, Kilkenny City FC, went out to Buckley Park every weekend they were playing, travelled the country to support them etc. And what happened? They collapsed. Not because of a lack of support, but because of a complete failure on the part of club management. I played my part as a fan, they let us down. Were they to be resurrected though, I'd happily support them AND Liverpool.

You talk of support as if it's some logical phenomonen, when it's the complete antithesis of that. Grown men crying on the terraces when a team from a foreign city with which they have no affinity is knocked out; people defining themselves by who the colours they wear and in opposition to those who wear a different jersey...sport, and supporting teams, is crazy. It's not logical or rational at all. I can't deny that it's irrational that I support Liverpool, but I do. I can't help it. It's an emotional thing. And just as I can't help supporting them, I couldn't just switch support on for an Irish team, based purely on the fact of their Irishness. If you don't understand that then perhaps you really don't understand the reasons behind supporting a team in the first place.

stovelid

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

This type of pure bollocks always pisses me off.

"Im a better fan than you because I support my local team" Its just stupid.

Aren't you one of the more vocal republicans on boards?

Is it a case of burn everything British except their football teams..? :P

Einhard

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

This type of pure bollocks always pisses me off.

"Im a better fan than you because I support my local team" Its just stupid.

Agreed. I thought music fans were bad until I got to know some soccer snobs.

Einhard

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

No its not. I'm a 'better fan' because I go week in week out, help fundraise and volunteer to help out. You cannot say your average EPL fan has the same attachment to whatever team they arbitraily picked when they were 10 and whose home city they are unlikely to have ever been to.

Perhaps not, but there's no need to look down one's nose at those who support foreign clubs, as so many LOI partisans are wont to do. We might choose our clubs "arbitrarily" when we're young, but that doesn't denegrate the emotional bond that fans feel, for whatever reason, for their particular club.

stovelid

Einhard wrote: »

Agreed. I thought music fans were bad until I got to know some soccer snobs.

If you think Irish supporters are bad, you should hear some of the English supporters think of you.

Einhard wrote: »

Perhaps not, but there's no need to look down one's nose at those who support foreign clubs, as so many LOI partisans are wont to do. We might choose our clubs "arbitrarily" when we're young, but that doesn't denegrate the emotional bond that fans feel, for whatever reason, for their particular club.

I'd say a large proportion of LOI supporters also support a foreign team. Most of my friends who go to Rovers do and go to England for games.

Einhard

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Fixed part 2.

If you prefer to watch foreign football - fine, enjoy. But don't pretend its anything other than the easy option.

It's the only option for me since the local LOI team I supported collapsed through mismanagement.

Einhard

stovelid wrote: »

If you think Irish supporters are bad, you should hear some of the English supporters think of you.

*English fans in bad opinion of Irish shocker!!*:p

I'm sure they love me, deep down!

stovelid

Einhard wrote: »

*English fans in bad opinion of Irish shocker!!*:p

I'm sure they love me, deep down!

I don't mean it's an anti-Irish thing.

Einhard

stovelid wrote: »

I don't mean it's an anti-Irish thing.

Yeah I know, I was joking.

It's an anti-ginger thing isn't it?!:mad:

CiaranC

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

This type of pure bollocks always pisses me off.

"Im a better fan than you because I support my local team" Its just stupid.

We are better fans than you

OhNoYouDidn't

Einhard wrote: »

What you're saying, that I should support a team with which I have absolutely no affinity, no connection, purely because it's Irish, doesn't make rational sense. The reason I support Liverpool is because I have family member swho do so, and they intorduced me. There's more rationale in that, than in supporting Finn Harps or Bohs because I happen to live in the country where they're based.

But it makes a great deal more rational sense than chosing a team in another country that you have no link with at all.

Could you imagine an Englishman from Cornwall, with no professional side, deciding to follow Bayern Munich because Exeter was too inaccesible?

Einhard wrote: »

And as I said, support is far more local in Ireland than it is in England, partly because of the legacy of the GAA. I can't imagine being able to support a Waterford team in any meaningful way.

Well if you are that parochial, thats your lookout. But the idea that a Gah mentality drives people to follow sport in Perfidious Albion is peculiar.

Einhard wrote: »

Incidentally, I did support my local club, Kilkenny City FC, went out to Buckley Park every weekend they were playing, travelled the country to support them etc. And what happened? They collapsed. Not because of a lack of support, but because of a complete failure on the part of club management. I played my part as a fan, they let us down. Were they to be resurrected though, I'd happily support them AND Liverpool.

Fair enough - they still exist and still play in Buckley Park by the way.

Einhard wrote: »

You talk of support as if it's some logical phenomonen, when it's the complete antithesis of that. Grown men crying on the terraces when a team from a foreign city with which they have no affinity is knocked out; people defining themselves by who the colours they wear and in opposition to those who wear a different jersey...sport, and supporting teams, is crazy. It's not logical or rational at all. I can't deny that it's irrational that I support Liverpool, but I do. I can't help it. It's an emotional thing. And just as I can't help supporting them, I couldn't just switch support on for an Irish team, based purely on the fact of their Irishness. If you don't understand that then perhaps you really don't understand the reasons behind supporting a team in the first place.

Please.

Look, in your case, fair enough. You followed your local side and had a foreign side. Your local side are in the LSL and you have moved your support to a foreign side. Your wife died so you have moved in with the mistress. I'm talking about Irish folk who take the easy option in supporting Blackburn/Leeds/Man United/Chelsea/Man City/Whomever is in vogue this week and try and dress it up as anything but consuming a particluar soap opera side because its fundamentally easier than paying your €15 in to watch your local team. Where are all those Blackburn fans now? Its so much easier to just ditch a tv side and move onto the next one.

Wolfe Tone

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Aren't you a Celtic man? If the LoI is 'mickey mouse' what in the name of all that is holy is the Scottish League at the moment?

I dont like Celtic, or Rangers for that matter. I stay clear of that clusterfcuk.

Wolfe Tone

stovelid wrote: »

Aren't you one of the more vocal republicans on boards?

Is it a case of burn everything British except their football teams..? :P

The least they owe us is decent football!


No, politics has nothing to do with sport.

OhNoYouDidn't

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I dont like Celtic, or Rangers for that matter. I stay clear of that clusterfcuk.

My mistake, I thought I saw you on the Celtic thread before.

But how do you reconcile your Republican principals with supprting an English side over an Irish one?

OhNoYouDidn't

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

No, politics has nothing to do with sport.

Cop out....

stovelid

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

No, politics has nothing to do with sport.

True. You wouldn't want to get saddled with a bunch of Irish losers anyway.

Wolfe Tone

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Cop out....

How is it a cop out? Sure soccer is a foreign game anyways. Tell me, why should football be politicized? I don't think it should, hence I hate the whole celtic/rangers thing.


I like to watch good quality football. Hence I watch foreign football, which is better quality then what we get here.

stovelid

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I like to watch good quality football. Hence I watch foreign football, which is better quality then what we get here.

So you support Spain over Ireland in internationals?

herbieflowers

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I'm talking about Irish folk who take the easy option in supporting Blackburn/Leeds/Man United/Chelsea/Man City/Whomever is in vogue this week and try and dress it up as anything but consuming a particluar soap opera side because its fundamentally easier than paying your €15 in to watch your local team. Where are all those Blackburn fans now? Its so much easier to just ditch a tv side and move onto the next one.

It may be the "easy" option but tbh I think a lot of those people you mention simply aren't used to going to watch live football.

OhNoYouDidn't

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

How is it a cop out? Sure soccer is a foreign game anyways. Tell me, why should football be politicized? I don't think it should, hence I hate the whole celtic/rangers thing.

Rubbish. All sport is political, especially to someone as political as you.

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I like to watch good quality football. Hence I watch foreign football, which is better quality then what we get here.

Would you cheer for England over Ireland? They are better after all

You follow English football because of the hype, not Spanish footie for the quality.

And all the LoI heads follow foreign football too...

Wolfe Tone

stovelid wrote: »

So you support Spain over Ireland in internationals?

Thats different tbh. No, I support Ireland.

OhNoYouDidn't

herbieflowers wrote: »

It may be the "easy" option but tbh I think a lot of those people you mention simply aren't used to going to watch live football.

Bingo. And thats a concious decision, and one that is unique to Ireland.

OhNoYouDidn't

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Thats different tbh. No, I support Ireland.

So football IS political....

Wolfe Tone

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Rubbish. All sport is political, especially to someone as political as you.

I dont think it should be. For me, politics and sport are separate, the way it should be. Its a bunch of lads kicking around a football.

Would you cheer for England over Ireland? They are better after all

You follow English football because of the hype, not Spanish footie for the quality.

And all the LoI heads follow foreign football too...

Club football is a different beast to international is it not? I wouldn't have any major affinity for the national team anyways. It is just a game.

CiaranC

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

It is just a game.

I think you are confusing yourself with a football fan

dfx-

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Athlone? Longford?

Kilkenny would be ideal if there ever was a team from there I guess.

Though Kilkenny could've win the Champions League and World Club Championship and there'd be 4 dogs and 1 person at the home semi-final leg.

Wolfe Tone

CiaranC wrote: »

I think you are confusing yourself with a football fan

Cheers for the opinion.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

dfx- wrote: »

Kilkenny would be ideal if there ever was a team from there I guess.

Though Kilkenny could've win the Champions League and World Club Championship and there'd be 4 dogs and 1 person at the home semi-final leg.

Kilkenny is also around the hour mark from where I live in Laois. And again, with my 'GAA head' on, my Ma's from Clare so I've grown to despise Kilkenny because of how good they are at hurling and beating Clare.:P

dsmythy

The last 20 posts have not given us a single way forward for domestic football.

Any more ideas?

CiaranC

LOI clubs merging with existing local junior clubs to give the junior money machines a run for their money.
Community based initiatives
Fan owned and run clubs
Educational and scholarship based initiatives in the catchment areas
Advertising
Getting local authorities involved in clubs with a view to improving facilities
More rigorous enforcement of licensing

dfx-

baz2009 wrote: »

Kilkenny is also around the hour mark from where I live in Laois. And again, with my 'GAA head' on, my Ma's from Clare so I've grown to despise Kilkenny because of how good they are at hurling and beating Clare.:P

Laois must be an hour from everywhere

The way forward for domestic football is to let Rovers win everything.

OhNoYouDidn't

dsmythy wrote: »

The last 20 posts have not given us a single way forward for domestic football.

Any more ideas?

I don't know. The biggest problem the LoI has is that people will list any old nonsense as why they won't catch a live game. These posts are illuminative of people who profess to be football mad, but don't watch it live, and will go through fantastic mental gymnastics to justify their choice. I don't care one way or the other, but it is fascinating to see what they will come up with next.

Would the music forum take someone who likes CD's but has never been to a gig's opinion seriously?