What is the way forward for domestic football ?

3hn2givr7mx1sc

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Would the music forum take someone who likes CD's but has never been to a gig's opinion seriously?

Yes, because you don't have to have seen a [articular act live tp know that they're recorded music is good.

dfx- wrote: »

Laois must be an hour from everywhere

Yeah, it can be handy for some things, but not for important things like having a local team.:P
Although, I seem to remember there being a team from Tullamore in one of the Championship Managers, possibly CM 4.

The way forward for domestic football is to let Rovers win everything.

I agree.:P

wexfordia

dsmythy wrote: »

The last 20 posts have not given us a single way forward for domestic football.

Any more ideas?

Yes the thread did go a fair bit off topic

bit of a bogey

CiaranC wrote: »

LOI clubs merging with existing local junior clubs to give the junior money machines a run for their moneyCommunity based initiatives
Fan owned and run clubs
Educational and scholarship based initiatives in the catchment areas
Advertising
Getting local authorities involved in clubs with a view to improving facilities
More rigorous enforcement of licensing

I like your way of thinking!

There needs to be a more structured approach to a childs footballing development. LOI clubs live in the present with all emphasis on getting the best players possible on available finances and then trying to survive from week to week. There is very little future development planning with shag all support from the FAI.

A massive problem is that many LOI clubs are congested together with people not having a club to support in close proximity. i.e. the lad from laois has no affinity to athlone town.

I'd like to see a new look FAI control the game from the grass roots up. The FAI should invest heavily in LOI centre of excellences with top coaches. These would be spread around the country and each local club and area would be associated with each centre of excellence.

eg. Shamrock Rovers would have a centre of excellence and would be allowed to poach players from all the small teams within a jurisdiction (just say South Dublin but only this area) from under 12’s upwards. And Longford Town would have a centre of excellence and would be allowed to poach players from all the small teams within a jurisdiction of just say Cavan, Leitrim, Roscommon.

These centres of excellences would then have highly qualified technical coaches which search all the teams in their jurisdiction for the best talent. Then as kids are playing football for their local small teams they would be aware of this mother club which they aspire to play for. This in turn will be a team which they will continue to support as they grow older. Especially as they may have managed to get trials with them or because their mate Johnny used to play for them and they started attending games. The “mother” LOI club would then offer school boy discounts to entice the all the managers and kids of small teams within that jurisdiction to attend their LOI level games.

This kind of approach may force the FAI to re-brand a few LOI clubs but it would get young players directly involved with the national league setup. I never really understood the likes of cherry orchard and belvedere which basically raped all small clubs of talent regardless of where they came from, sent all the best to England to perish away and provided no direct feed into the Irish League. This serves the Irish league in no way in terms of finance or of standard.

The aim would be to eventually get Irish players seeing that playing football in Ireland has a career path as such and is a sounder option that playing a lottery in England. Top coaches with badges should be running these centre’s of excellence. Keeping as many players in this country as possible around the best coaches will certainly improve the standard of our game.


This is actually kind of similar to the approach of rugby in this country. Although we would not have the same massive success in Europe as Munster, Leinster and Ulster as they only have 4 so-called centre of excellences when we would have maybe 12, I do think it would improve the chances of Irish teams progresing in Europe. Look at the state of professional rugby in Ireland now. No young Irish player automatically thinks of moving straight to England and Munster v Leinster matches have attendances of over 50,000 for a mickey mouse magners league game. That sort of thinking a few years ago would have been madness.


Athough I strongly disagree with merging leagues with NI and Scotland, I would think it would be very beneficial to share a cup. I like to see the setanta cup completely abandoned and an agreement made with England, Scotland and Northern Ireland. All their league cups would be replaced with a combined league cup. Obviously English premier league teams would enter the cup at a later knock out round to the Irish teams. An agreement like this may be difficult to achieve but I certainly don’t think it would be impossible??

Sorry for the long post but I do think these are only a fraction of the areas that should be reformed. Some ideas may be idealised but I don’t think any are on cuckoo land!

Jazzy

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I don't know. The biggest problem the LoI has is that people will list any old nonsense as why they won't catch a live game. These posts are illuminative of people who profess to be football mad, but don't watch it live, and will go through fantastic mental gymnastics to justify their choice. I don't care one way or the other, but it is fascinating to see what they will come up with next.

Would the music forum take someone who likes CD's but has never been to a gig's opinion seriously?

yeah and why shouldnt they?

i positively love your blame the fans approach. it solves nothing, attempts to elevate yourself in your own head, has no real depth or meaning to it and all adds up to this smug, bitter person trying to tell everyone how stupid they are all in the one little soundbyte.

Lamper.sffc

Seen this on Foot.ie

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Plans+...d.-a0242823680

Is this the way forward? Personally I cant see the proposal for the Premier division being a good idea.

SantryRed

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

Seen this on Foot.ie

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Plans+...d.-a0242823680

Is this the way forward? Personally I cant see the proposal for the Premier division being a good idea.

It's an absolute fcuking farce. Jokeshop! A split after 22 games is ludicrous. I actually can't get over how stupid it is. Why we can't have a normal league with 16 teams with 30 games in a season is beyond me. We'd have no need for the fixture congestion near the start of the season too. I fcuking hate the FAI and the clubs for agreeing to this.

Gavin "shels"

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Thats different tbh. No, I support Ireland.

Always love this line!

CiaranC wrote: »

More rigorous enforcement of licensing

Hahahahaha!:D

OhNoYouDidn't

SantryRed wrote: »

It's an absolute fcuking farce. Jokeshop! A split after 22 games is ludicrous. I actually can't get over how stupid it is. Why we can't have a normal league with 16 teams with 30 games in a season is beyond me. We'd have no need for the fixture congestion near the start of the season too. I fcuking hate the FAI and the clubs for agreeing to this.

Calm down. Its a proposal. The FAI will no more pass a split than they will return to winter football.

wexfordia

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

Seen this on Foot.ie

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Plans+...d.-a0242823680

Is this the way forward? Personally I cant see the proposal for the Premier division being a good idea.

I think a workable format needs to be decided upon and stick with it.All this chopping and changing does the league's credibility no favours.I heard it said once that the LOI has more new formulas than a washing detergent. The final paragraph of Who Stole Our Game ? is an accurate description of the crossroads the league finds itself at.It reads,

'The reality now is that the League doesn't have time to mess around anymore,trying more half-baked ideas in the hope that a Paddy Abramovich will come riding over the hill with 20,000 spectators in tow. As the clubs and their officials finally cede power to John Delaney in the hope that miracles can be worked,one wonders if it is too little too late. Will the real legacy of the League of Ireland be the 'Sold' sign at Dalymount, just as the bulldozers move in ? '

pablomakaveli

I think these ideas of merging the LOI with the NI or scottish leagues are never realistic. They always seem to be thrown about as a way of saving domestic football but aside from the fact that it the relevant national associations would be extremely unlikely to want to do this, it probably would'nt solve anything in the long run as the problems that plague domestic football now would still be there.

Instead focusing on more realistic ideas like improving the youth structure and getting clubs to cop on with finances would prove more fruitful.

wexfordia

Just one question I want LOI fans to answer.If an Irish-Scottish league were to be formed would supporting a team competing in it hold any interest for you ? ?

fulhamfanincork

Stop losing all the young players to GAA.

Put more emphasis on technique when coaching kids. Don't bother with a 11 a side football till about 14.

Get proper, decent coaches instead of dads who think they are jose mourinho because they saw him on the tele.

Make all clubs have at least 5/6 youth players for development.

BOHtox

wexfordia wrote: »

Just one question I want LOI fans to answer.If an Irish-Scottish league were to be formed would supporting a team competing in it hold any interest for you ? ?

I'd continue to support Bohs if they were in it but, I would prefer an all island league. I'd like tehe setanta cup to be expanded to Wales or maybe scottish divison one

dsmythy

wexfordia wrote: »

Just one question I want LOI fans to answer.If an Irish-Scottish league were to be formed would supporting a team competing in it hold any interest for you ? ?

I'm sure they'll support their clubs whatever league they're in.

dreamers75

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

Stop losing all the young players to GAA.

That doesnt happen in Dublin quite the opposite.

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

Put more emphasis on technique when coaching kids. Don't bother with a 11 a side football till about 14.

Get proper, decent coaches instead of dads who think they are jose mourinho because they saw him on the tele.

Make all clubs have at least 5/6 youth players for development.

FAI dictate youth policy and its changing to 11 a side earlier from next season, small sided games are good but always dominated by the one great player that some teams have so playing matches doesnt help the kids only that one deadly 8 year old.

Pats and Rovers and Shels have decent fully qualified coaches dunno about bohs, i know one Rovers coach was offered 150 quid a week to coach an established DDSL sides under 12s.

The 3 main leagues here DDSL NDSL and SDFL have programs within themselves which gives coaches the ability to gain more qualifications. Pats ran a course for Kickstart 1 and 2 recently im sure the others do the same.

fulhamfanincork

dreamers75 wrote: »

That doesnt happen in Dublin quite the opposite.




FAI dictate youth policy and its changing to 11 a side earlier from next season, small sided games are good but always dominated by the one great player that some teams have so playing matches doesnt help the kids only that one deadly 8 year old.

Pats and Rovers and Shels have decent fully qualified coaches dunno about bohs, i know one Rovers coach was offered 150 quid a week to coach an established DDSL sides under 12s.

The 3 main leagues here DDSL NDSL and SDFL have programs within themselves which gives coaches the ability to gain more qualifications. Pats ran a course for Kickstart 1 and 2 recently im sure the others do the same.

That's all well and good, but there is more than one county in Ireland.

dreamers75

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

That's all well and good, but there is more than one county in Ireland.

Well obviously its working outside Dubland, look at the current irish internationals (all levels) and where they played junior football. Decent mix of counties but Dubland a bit ahead assume its due to population.

Do Cork City have a junior setup? I know Cobh do.

dsmythy

Just a general idea of the rough club catchment areas for new fans more than anything. Based on the highest populated in urban areas. Not exhaustive and probably not 100% accurate either but a general look. 2006 census figures. Includes suburbs and environs. Sections in bold indicates urban areas that has no stadium and/or club within their boundaries.

For Dublin I disregard Fingal because they are a recently established team and UCD because of their status as a university club. In Galway I disregard the micro teams Salthill and Mervue. Probably put up on the forum before but what the hey.

Dublin

---

1,045,769 (4 teams - 261,442 each)
Cork

---

186,239 (Cork City)
Derry

---

93,512 (Derry City)
Limerick ---- 86,998 (Limerick FC)
Galway

---

72,729 (Galway City)
Waterford -- 49,213 (Waterford City)
Drogheda -- 35,090 (Drogheda Utd)
Dundalk ---- 35,085 (Dundalk)
Swords ---- 33,998 (Fingal?)
Bray

---

31,901 (Bray Wanderers)
Navan

---

24,851
Ennis

---

24,851
Tralee

---

22,744 (Tralee Dynamos)
Kilkenny --- 22,179
Naas

---

20,044
Carlow

---

20,000 (FC Carlow)
Sligo

---

19,402 (Sligo Rovers)
Newbridge -- 18,520
Mullingar --- 18,416
Wexford ---- 18,163 (Wexford Youths very nearby)
Letterkenny - 17,586 (Finn Harps move?)
Athlone

---

17,544 (Athlone Town)
Celbridge ---- 17,262
Tullamore ---- 12,927 (Tullamore Town)
Carrigaline --- 12,835
Castlebar ---- 11,891 (Castlebar Celtic)
Arklow

---

11,759
Cobh

---

11,303 (Cobh Ramblers)
Skipping numerous towns to
Longford

---

8,836 (Longford Town)
Monaghan ---- 6,710 (Monaghan United)


Just a quick comparison to the 10 teams in Austria's Bundesliga. Austria has double the population of Ireland and are ahead in the UEFA co-efficients. Presumably there are other teams in Vienna for example taking away some of the potential fanbase of the big two in the city.

Vienna

---

1,996,885 (Austria Vienna/Rapid Vienna - 998,442 each)
Graz

---

258,605 (Sturm Graz)
Linz

---

189,284 (LASK Linz)
Salzburg

---

150,269 (Red Bull Salzburg)
Innsbruck

---

119,249 (Wacker Innsbruck)
Wiener Neustadt - 39,652 (SC Wiener Neustadt)
Kapfenburg

---

22,000 (Kapfenburg)
Ried im Innkreis -- 11,511 (SV Ried)
Mattersburg

---

7,125 (SV Mattersburg)

There's no reason Ireland's top league should be part time if there were to be an increase of interest in the league, or at the very least better governing.

pablomakaveli

dsmythy wrote: »

Just a general idea of the rough club catchment areas for new fans more than anything. Based on the highest populated in urban areas. Not exhaustive and probably not 100% accurate either but a general look. 2006 census figures. Includes suburbs and environs. Sections in bold indicates urban areas that has no stadium and/or club within their boundaries.

For Dublin I disregard Fingal because they are a recently established team and UCD because of their status as a university club. In Galway I disregard the micro teams Salthill and Mervue. Probably put up on the forum before but what the hey.

Dublin

---

1,045,769 (4 teams - 261,442 each)
Cork

---

186,239 (Cork City)
Derry

---

93,512 (Derry City)
Limerick ---- 86,998 (Limerick FC)
Galway

---

72,729 (Galway City)
Waterford -- 49,213 (Waterford City)
Drogheda -- 35,090 (Drogheda Utd)
Dundalk ---- 35,085 (Dundalk)
Swords ---- 33,998 (Fingal?)
Bray

---

31,901 (Bray Wanderers)
Navan

---

24,851
Ennis

---

24,851
Tralee

---

22,744 (Tralee Dynamos)
Kilkenny --- 22,179
Naas

---

20,044
Carlow

---

20,000 (FC Carlow)
Sligo

---

19,402 (Sligo Rovers)
Newbridge -- 18,520
Mullingar --- 18,416
Wexford ---- 18,163 (Wexford Youths very nearby)
Letterkenny - 17,586 (Finn Harps move?)
Athlone

---

17,544 (Athlone Town)
Celbridge ---- 17,262
Tullamore ---- 12,927 (Tullamore Town)
Carrigaline --- 12,835
Castlebar ---- 11,891 (Castlebar Celtic)
Arklow

---

11,759
Cobh

---

11,303 (Cobh Ramblers)
Skipping numerous towns to
Longford

---

8,836 (Longford Town)
Monaghan ---- 6,710 (Monaghan United)


Just a quick comparison to the 10 teams in Austria's Bundesliga. Austria has double the population of Ireland and are ahead in the UEFA co-efficients. Presumably there are other teams in Vienna for example taking away some of the potential fanbase of the big two in the city.

Vienna

---

1,996,885 (Austria Vienna/Rapid Vienna - 998,442 each)
Graz

---

258,605 (Sturm Graz)
Linz

---

189,284 (LASK Linz)
Salzburg

---

150,269 (Red Bull Salzburg)
Innsbruck

---

119,249 (Wacker Innsbruck)
Wiener Neustadt - 39,652 (SC Wiener Neustadt)
Kapfenburg

---

22,000 (Kapfenburg)
Ried im Innkreis -- 11,511 (SV Ried)
Mattersburg

---

7,125 (SV Mattersburg)

There's no reason Ireland's top league should be part time if there were to be an increase of interest in the league, or at the very least better governing.

The potential numbers would rise again when you consider areas outside but close to the cities and towns listed. For example with Cork City we'd have supporters from the county area as well. Carrigaline which is listed above is only about 20-25 min drive from Turners Cross and would be near enough to Cobh as well.

Pinturicchio

The teams from Galway and Waterford are both called United, not City.

orourkeda

wexfordia wrote: »

So would any of you actually like to see us form a league with Scotland ? It seems the issue of club mergers is the biggest issue with you.

The merger with the scottish league is a non runner on so many levels or NI. The first and most obvious is the travel. Another often cited is the fact it would probably mean having to merge football associations. Imagine the scottish and northern irish equivalent of John Delaney and other senior administrators competing for fewer positions

The primary reason LOI football is not successful is financial. Most clubs cant maintain an average attendance of over 2000 for a season and for this simple reason it will fail to improve in its current guise.

artanevilla

A merger with Scotland? You'd have more Irish lads supporting the likes of Celtic than any LOI teams.

OhNoYouDidn't

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

Stop losing all the young players to GAA.

But the opposite happens. I genuinely haven't heard of one promising footballer going to the dark side. The opposite is well documented.

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

Put more emphasis on technique when coaching kids. Don't bother with a 11 a side football till about 14.

Agreed and its something Koovermans is pushing had for.

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

Get proper, decent coaches instead of dads who think they are jose mourinho because they saw him on the tele.

This is happening, and those dads are being compelled to do Kickstart at least. the FAI spend a fortune on coaching.

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

Make all clubs have at least 5/6 youth players for development.

All clubs have to have an A team and an U 20 team. Thats plenty.

Neil3030

It really depends on what people want at the end of the day.

If people want to see better quality football, the merger makes sense.

If people are more emotionally invested in their club, to the point that they see it as part of their identity, then the merger would make no sense at all.

Fr Tod Umptious

orourkeda wrote: »

The merger with the scottish league is a non runner on so many levels or NI. The first and most obvious is the travel. Another often cited is the fact it would probably mean having to merge football associations. Imagine the scottish and northern irish equivalent of John Delaney and other senior administrators competing for fewer positions

The primary reason LOI football is not successful is financial. Most clubs cant maintain an average attendance of over 2000 for a season and for this simple reason it will fail to improve in its current guise.

Well it could not happen in isolation.

It would have to happen as part of an overall overhaul of European leagues.

There may be some way to keep associations relevant is a new format.

dsmythy

Pinturicchio wrote: »

The teams from Galway and Waterford are both called United, not City.

Oh yeah. I was kind of rushing it and that's what happens

stovelid

Neil3030 wrote: »

It really depends on what people want at the end of the day.

If people want to see better quality football, the merger makes sense.

If people are more emotionally invested in their club, to the point that they see it as part of their identity, then the merger would make no sense at all.

Outside of the top handful of teams, I'm not sure how much better the rest of the quality is than the top teams here.

Obviously though, the support, facilities, grounds and everything like that are miles ahead of here though.