Best Keeper in the World

Degag

Pepe Reina

iregk wrote: »

I never said he was! I voted for Buffon. I simply said to one poster that was very good.

I know you didn't. I was saying it generally.

gosplan

VDS has undoubtedly been the best keeper in England over the last five years.

However, if people are particularly choosing to look at his form a couple of years back, then I don't see how you can ignore his failure at Juve.

He was replaced at Juve because they thought he wasn't good enough and a couple of years after making a move from Ajax to one of Europe's footballing powerhouses, he was on his way to Fulham.

I don't see how the 'world's best keeper' can have such a failure on his CV.

He was also replaced at Juve by Buffon so are people going for VDS saying that this was essentially a mistake?

#15

Pepe Reina

gosplan wrote: »

I don't see how the 'world's best keeper' can have such a failure on his CV.

I don't think VDS is the best keeper in the world, but I don't agree with your logic there.
I think it's entirely possible to fail at one club and go on to become 'the best' elsewhere.

cournioni

Victor Valdes

gosplan wrote: »

He was replaced at Juve because they thought he wasn't good
He was also replaced at Juve by Buffon so are people going for VDS saying that this was essentially a mistake?

If you're going on trophies won, then yes. Van der Sar has won more trophies in the 5 years that he's been at United than Buffon has in his 9 years Juve. Namely the Champions League and the World Club Championship along with three premierships and a league cup medal. Buffon has four Serie A titles and a Serie B title.

iregk

Pepe Reina

cournioni wrote: »

Namely the Champions League and the World Club Championship along with three premierships and a league cup medal. Buffon has four Serie A titles and a Serie B title.

How many world cups has VDS got?

cournioni

Victor Valdes

0.

How many World Cups do Holland have and how many do Italy have? Also, how many people are living in Holland compared to Italy?

Mister men

Julio Caesar

cournioni wrote: »

0.

How many World Cups do Holland have and how many do Italy have? Also, how many people are living in Holland compared to Italy?

OMG talk about missing the point. Woooosh.

gosplan

Victor Valdes

gosplan wrote: »

VDS has undoubtedly been the best keeper in England over the last five years.

Golden glove winners from last 5 years. Undoubtedly is a vast overstatement to say the least.

2005–06 Reina
2006-07 Reina
2007-08 Reina
2008-09 Van der Saar
2009-10 Cech

DOC09UNAM

Igor Akinfeev

32 Delusional people have voted in this thread.

Which skews the results a small bit.

Fuhrer

Pepe Reina

That 32 people would vote for Reina and the thread turns into mocking the 2/3 less people who voted for VDS shows how pointless this thread is.

Lloyderz

Victor Valdes

David de Gea!

Iago

Iker Casillas

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

32 Delusional people have voted in this thread.

Which skews the results a small bit.

Fuhrer wrote: »

That 32 people would vote for Reina and the thread turns into mocking the 2/3 less people who voted for VDS shows how pointless this thread is.

Either contribute to the thread or stay out of it, right now you're doing neither.

Given a choice right now I'd have Reina in net at United rather than VDS, sure that has a huge amount to do with the age difference, but anybody arguing that Reina isn't an exceptional keeper really has no place in a football forum in the first place.

Whether he's the best in the world is up for debate, for me personally he's not, but he's certainly up there and worthy of consideration.

cournioni

Victor Valdes

Iago wrote: »

Either contribute to the thread or stay out of it, right now you're doing neither.

Given a choice right now I'd have Reina in net at United rather than VDS, sure that has a huge amount to do with the age difference, but anybody arguing that Reina isn't an exceptional keeper really has no place in a football forum in the first place.

Whether he's the best in the world is up for debate, for me personally he's not, but he's certainly up there and worthy of consideration.

He's a good keeper, but very prone to mistakes. I wouldn't have him anywhere near the United nets. He would be another Howard/Bosnich in my opinion. Good all rounder, but not near the standard that a United keeper needs to be at (ie. World class like VDS or Schmeichel).

The one thing that always comes to my mind when I compare VDS with Reina was O'Shea's goal at anfield a few years back. Van der Sar would have dealt with that shot from Ronaldo without any problems, he would have either caught it or turned it round the post, Reina parried it straight into the path of O'Shea for a late winner. There have been a few other instances where Reina has dealt with situations similar to that very poorly and cost Liverpool goals. One against Arsenal (I think) and one against Steaua last week.

DOC09UNAM

Igor Akinfeev

Iago wrote: »

Either contribute to the thread or stay out of it, right now you're doing neither.

It was a contribution, it was me saying that anybody who thinks Reina is the best keeper in the world at the moment, is delusional.

Iago wrote:

Given a choice right now I'd have Reina in net at United rather than VDS, sure that has a huge amount to do with the age difference

I'd have to disagree with you there if I'm honest, VDS is a better keeper, and I would prefer him in the sticks at the moment, and for us to go find a replacement, which is exactly what we have done, and are still doing.

Iago wrote:

but anybody arguing that Reina isn't an exceptional keeper really has no place in a football forum in the first place.

I didn't realise we only had a place in the football forum if we all agreed on the same thing? doesn't leave much to discussion then really does it?

Iago wrote:

Whether he's the best in the world is up for debate, for me personally he's not, but he's certainly up there and worthy of consideration.

Then how is he exceptional?

Surely if he is exceptional, then he must be possibly the best goalkeeper in the world, unless Buffon or Casillas are more than exceptional?

Iago

Iker Casillas

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

It was a contribution, it was me saying that anybody who thinks Reina is the best keeper in the world at the moment, is delusional.

Well technically it's abuse (and we have had users banned from forums recently for that exact phrase) but we're more relaxed here

That aside, picking Reina doesn't make people any more delusional than those who picked VDS, Cech, or other, meh you could add Valdes to that list for that matter. They're all opinions, and each of them could make a plausible claim, it doesn't mean they're right.

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

I'd have to disagree with you there if I'm honest, VDS is a better keeper, and I would prefer him in the sticks at the moment, and for us to go find a replacement, which is exactly what we have done, and are still doing.

Disagree away, that's what makes a forum great. VDS is past his best, Reina is in the midst of his. Given a choice between bringing in Reina or another keeper I'd rather Reina over almost all other options.

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

I didn't realise we only had a place in the football forum if we all agreed on the same thing? doesn't leave much to discussion then really does it?

So if people are called delusional because of the way they vote that leaves room for discussion, but if people are pulled up on a perceived lack of knowledge then that doesn't?

Reina is an exceptional keeper, he's one of the top 3 in England and amongst the best keepers in the world. There are a handful of teams who might not snap him up tomorrow if he was available. I don't see any logical argument against that, so if anybody is trying to make one then it seems to me that their footballing knowledge is flawed at best.

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Then how is he exceptional?

Surely if he is exceptional, then he must be possibly the best goalkeeper in the world, unless Buffon or Casillas are more than exceptional?

I've answered that above, but he's comfortably in the Top 10 keepers in the world at the moment. In my view any player, in any position, who's in the Top 10 in the world for their position is exceptional. There will always be someone who's better than the rest, that makes them Number 1, but it doesn't mean the rest aren't exceptional.

WallyGUFC

Pepe Reina

cournioni wrote: »

He's a good keeper, but very prone to mistakes. I wouldn't have him anywhere near the United nets. He would be another Howard/Bosnich in my opinion. Good all rounder, but not near the standard that a United keeper needs to be at (ie. World class like VDS or Schmeichel).

The one thing that always comes to my mind when I compare VDS with Reina was O'Shea's goal at anfield a few years back. Van der Sar would have dealt with that shot from Ronaldo without any problems, he would have either caught it or turned it round the post, Reina parried it straight into the path of O'Shea for a late winner. There have been a few other instances where Reina has dealt with situations similar to that very poorly and cost Liverpool goals. One against Arsenal (I think) and one against Steaua last week.

How do you know that for certain though? You don't.

Also, how much better are United than Juve? How much better is United's defence? There's a big difference between Vidic-Ferdinand and Chiellini-Legrotaglie. Which partly explains why VDS has won more at club level recently. He didn't exactly need a trophy cabinet when he went to Fulham. But amount of trophies is a stupid argument.
It's hard to judge the best keeper unless they're put in the exact same situations repeatedly. I think Buffon has it all. I think VDS almost has it all. I think Buffon is the best keeper in the world, not based on trophies won.

Iago

Iker Casillas

cournioni wrote: »

He's a good keeper, but very prone to mistakes. I wouldn't have him anywhere near the United nets. He would be another Howard/Bosnich in my opinion. Good all rounder, but not near the standard that a United keeper needs to be at (ie. World class like VDS or Schmeichel).

The one thing that always comes to my mind when I compare VDS with Reina was O'Shea's goal at anfield a few years back. Van der Sar would have dealt with that shot from Ronaldo without any problems, he would have either caught it or turned it round the post, Reina parried it straight into the path of O'Shea for a late winner. There have been a few other instances where Reina has dealt with situations similar to that very poorly and cost Liverpool goals. One against Arsenal (I think) and one against Steaua last week.

Individual mistakes really don't add up to much though

Did you see the West Brom game this season?

How about his mistake against Arsenal when playing for Fulham?

Neither of the above matter, but he's been shaky and nervous at times during his career with United never mind anywhere else. He has definitely conceded goals that I think he should have done better with, where he looked like he was caught unawares.

Anyway I rate VDS, but given the relative stage of their careers I'd rather have Reina in net than him right now.

cournioni

Victor Valdes

WallyGUFC wrote: »

How do you know that for certain though? You don't.

Also, how much better are United than Juve? How much better is United's defence? There's a big difference between Vidic-Ferdinand and Chiellini-Legrotaglie. Which partly explains why VDS has won more at club level recently. He didn't exactly need a trophy cabinet when he went to Fulham. But amount of trophies is a stupid argument.
It's hard to judge the best keeper unless they're put in the exact same situations repeatedly. I think Buffon has it all. I think VDS almost has it all. I think Buffon is the best keeper in the world, not based on trophies won.

I don't know for certain, but I'd bet my house on VDS dealing with it alot better than Reina in that situation.

United are probably a good bit better at this stage than Juve are, but around 2005 when VDS signed for United, United were very very poor and it is only with his signing that United started to gain some stability in the defence. United then went on to win the Premiership in 07, 08, and 09. Van Der Sar playing a huge part in all.

He didn't exactly do bad at Fulham either. They reached the UEFA Cup for the first time ever with VDS in goal for them after getting through the inter toto cup. Quite a big achievement for them at the time and the reason why United went in for him.

gosplan

#15 wrote: »

I don't think VDS is the best keeper in the world, but I don't agree with your logic there.
I think it's entirely possible to fail at one club and go on to become 'the best' elsewhere.

I take your point but surely the thread has to be 'best keeper in the world right now' or 'best keeper in the world over their career'.

VDS is neither IMO.

gosplan

rarnes1 wrote: »

Golden glove winners from last 5 years. Undoubtedly is a vast overstatement to say the least.

2005–06 Reina
2006-07 Reina
2007-08 Reina
2008-09 Van der Saar
2009-10 Cech

Grand. that was just my opinion (probably enhanced by trophies won) but I stand corrected.

Warper

Iker Casillas

When you talk about best keeper you have to bear in mind what they have in front of them as well. Buffon is generally recognised as the best keeper of the past decade and still probably is. I voted Cesar as he was brilliant last season but overall, when you consider everything Buffon is probably the No. 1.