splat

seve65

Was pole-axed on Tueday (nothing to with the poor conditions!) by a car door opening as a passenger got out of car in traffic at the second I went past. I didnt see a thing, was on the tarmac before I knew it. Just cuts, grazes and bruises, so good news there. Front wheel was buckled, several hours later I havent completely trued the wheel, so yet more bike expenditure on the way there.I sheepishly waved the offender on, being more embarrased at being pole-axed and not having seen it coming, and said not too worry, the mother driving told the teeenager she was a stupid girl. Who is most at fault, given its not legal in Ireland or at least its ambiguous as to whether its legal in Ireland to cycle on the inside (i think it maybe legal in some countries), neither is it strictly speaking legal to hop out of a car though in traffic, stationary or not ??

youcancallmeal

Madness, you should of gotten their details. I found this out the hard way, exact same situation where someone opened a door on me while I was cycling through traffic. Front wheel was messed up and my chest had taken most of the force of the impact. Passenger who opened the door apologised and I went on my way. I started having really bad chest pains later that day so went to the hospital and found out I had cracked a rib. Between my hospital bill and new front wheel if cost me a good bit of money.

So in hindsight I really wish I had gotten their details and had them pay for it!

07Lapierre

AFAIK it's illegal to cycle up along a line of stopped traffic on a bicycle in Ireland. Yes / no ?

snubbleste

Same happened to me earlier in the year except I managed to stay upright.
Cycling in stopped traffic on the white line in the centre of a two lane one-way street, driver door opens to my right and passenger emerges, and I get hit. It was a foreign car. Apologies follow, no major damage done.

Lumen

07Lapierre wrote: »

AFAIK it's illegal to cycle up along a line of stopped traffic on a bicycle in Ireland. Yes / no ?

I think this falls under the category of "things which are not specifically prohibited by law but which may go against common sense and duty of care to other road users".

funkyjebus

afaik it i perfectly legal to go up thwe inside of slow moving traffic while on a bike. the law makes specific mention to this. i does state that the bike should be slow and cautious or somthing similar. always get their details, always at worst you can just throw them away.

paddyob

this exact thing happened to me recently while cars were stopped at traffic lights (passenger opened door, splat, smash, cut, crack, buckle etc).

Can't quote you any laws, but i can say that the driver admitted full liability through her insurance company and they're paying medical bills and bike repairs

seve65

paddyob wrote: »

this exact thing happened to me recently while cars were stopped at traffic lights (passenger opened door, splat, smash, cut, crack, buckle etc).

Can't quote you any laws, but i can say that the driver admitted full liability through her insurance company and they're paying medical bills and bike repairs

interesting, thanks, anyway water under the bridge for me now. Will just try to increase my observation level of passenger movements as I approach (I am pretty sure I was going slow enough after all we all know how icy its been !) to add to the many other things to not take for granted.

BostonB

Kinda have to slow down going up queues of cars. This can happen any time.

Alanstrainor

The rules of the road state that you may only pass cars on the left if traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.
I presume this applies for cycle lanes V. driving lanes.

el tel

Regardless of the law, I think if I were to be hit by a car door being opened as I rode on the inside (i.e. kerbside, where no bike lane) then tough **** on me, I was riding up the inside of traffic after all, what did I expect? I would feel on the large part to blame, just for being there. If I did some damage to a car in such an event I would also feel responsible for that too. Have to say when I'm driving in heavy traffic cyclists squeezing by in the inside gives me the heebiejeebies - I hate seeing people put life and limb in danger but I especially don't like the thoughts of a wobbly cyclist touching my mirrors or paintwork.

BostonB

If you ride on the outside the odds are a door opening would fling you into oncoming traffic. Cars don't expect you there either.

Civilian_Target

OP - you should have taken their details. Regardless of your road status, unless you're travelling at undue speed it's negligence on their part: drivers are obliged to check their mirrors before opening the door. I wouldn't worry about bike repairs, but if I hit the dirt I want to make sure someone's covering any medical bill.

BTW, unless you are crawling along, you should always overtake on the inside, not the kerbside. The risk of being doored, turned upon or otherwise injured is much reduced. You are also where drivers expected overtaking vehicles to be, and in full view of oncoming traffic.

BostonB

Isn't the inside lane and the kerbside the same lane?

In British/Irish terminology, the passing lane is termed an outer lane or outside lane, while a normal lane nearer the hard shoulder is termed an inner lane (or inside lane)

People exit from both sides of a car, which is why you give parked cars a wide berth. Drivers don't really expect to be overtaken when they sitting in a queue. The sudden 180 is likely from cars in queues or a sudden launch across the road to a side street. So its not my experience that its any safer. Other then odds of being thrown into the path of oncoming cars are higher. Perhaps far rarer than being doored on the kerbside. I dunno.

I love to see some stats on it. Not that I think the answer is black an white, I think a lot depends on the situation at that moment, and the specific junction.

thebouldwhacker

Sorry to hear about your incident but I have always wondered about this, passing on the left is often the easiest, ie not taking on approaching traffic but def always a concern about opening doors etc..... but is it legal?

I hope your back on the bike soon, good to hear there were no broken bones.

tomasrojo

BostonB wrote: »

People exit from both sides of a car, which is why you give parked cars a wide berth. Drivers don't really expect to be overtaken when they sitting in a queue. The sudden 180 is likely from cars in queues or a sudden launch across the road to a side street. So its not my experience that its any safer.

The safest option, I find, it to pass on the left slowly and carefully. But I often pass on the right as well, also slowly and in the middle of the oncoming-traffic lane (if it's a street with one lane in both directions). If I see traffic coming, I pull in and then back out when it's passed. If traffic is stalled, as you say, sudden 180s are quite common and potentially very, very harmful.

I'm not sure about apportioning blame in the event that you're doored passing on the left. Is anyone familiar with any court cases? That's probably the best way to see how the law apportions blame in a system based on common law.

tomasrojo

In the matter of a bike lane being legally a separate traffic lane, I'm not sure whether this has been adequately defined by law in Ireland. Many of them clearly are not fit to be classed as separate traffic lanes, being just subsections of a normal-width traffic lane. The lack of any court cases (that I'm aware of) where a cyclist or a cyclist's relatives have successfully sued for dangerous driving in the event of a left-turning HGV or bus colliding with a cyclist on a cycle lane suggests to me that in law a cycle lane is not treated as a separate traffic lane.

I read somewhere that in the Netherlands motorists are encouraged to merge with on-road cycle lanes before turning, with the implication that they are separate traffic lanes and you can't just swing across them.

EDIT: This suggests that merging into on-road bike lanes is correct behaviour in the USA too.
http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/6528/drivers-must-merge-into-bike-lanes-before-turning-right/

Not an area in which I profess to have any expertise, I hasten to add.

EDIT: This has information (not sure how reliable) on the Dutch situation:
http://www.truewheelers.org/cases/vassarst/insurrection.htm

Though proponents of the Vassar Street project frequently refer to Dutch standards, this is also the law in the Netherlands. Here are a quote and graphic from a Web page about Dutch traffic law addressed to motorists:
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/lavw/bicycles_s.htm

[W]hen you share the road with the bicycles even if there is a different colored small lane [i.e., a bike lane] separated from your lane with a dashed white line, the right way of taking a right turn is cutting in with the bicycles on their lane at their speed, such they can't pass on your right. Then you can safely take the turn.

BostonB

Take it handy past traffic.

thebouldwhacker

The sound of a car door opening in front of you is similar to the sound of a gun being cocked. ~Amy Webster

seve65

thebouldwhacker wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your incident but I have always wondered about this, passing on the left is often the easiest, ie not taking on approaching traffic but def always a concern about opening doors etc..... but is it legal?

I hope your back on the bike soon, good to hear there were no broken bones.

Thanks, yes have been back on the bike. Small grazes wearing off now. Slight niggle on the same knee where I had a meniscus tear trimmed recently.... it wasnt perfect beforehand so could be a touch of paranoia going on there, we'll see how that pans out over the next few months.

As for legality, I am going to do a bit more research. I have crashed into drivers suddenly turning to the left and the right to take a side road unexpectedly, so whatever side you go on, caution and looking for potential side road manoeveurs and fidgety passengers is the best you can do I think.