Best keeper of all time.

Mr.Nice Guy

I find it odd though that Schmeichel, who many would have seen and been impressed by in the nineties, is being dismissed now on the grounds of being in a poor era, whereas Yashin, who many probably only know from books and Youtube clips, is being hailed as the better keeper. Couldn't it be argued Yashin was in an era where poor keepers were more commonplace than in the modern game?

steelcityblues

karma_ wrote: »

To be fair Denmark never even qualified for that tournament.

Irrelevant - he stepped up to the plate against Europe's best once they were invited!

The fact that they saw off hosts Sweden, Holland and Germany along the way means it was no fluke.

peabutler

Lack of David Seaman is astounding.

steelcityblues

peabutler wrote: »

Lack of David Seaman is astounding.

Good keeper no doubt, but blessed with an immense back four in front of him for years!

peabutler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKjO4C6tbWw

flahavaj

Schmeichel is the greatest I've ever seen, awesome at every facet of goalkeeping. Not sure how anyone on here is qualified to vote for the likes of Yashin.

TonyD79

peabutler wrote: »

Lack of David Seaman is astounding.

.......Ronaldinho....... Nayim........

peabutler

TonyD79 wrote: »

.......Ronaldinho....... Nayim........

I think he should be an option is all.

karma_

flahavaj wrote: »

Schmeichel is the greatest I've ever seen, awesome at every facet of goalkeeping. Not sure how anyone on here is qualified to vote for the likes of Yashin.

It's because Yashin is a completely legendary keeper and widely acknowledged by a lot of pro's as teh greatest keeper of all time, it's hardly his fault he didn't play for MU. I'd imagine if he did he'd be winning this poll right now.

rossie1977

flahavaj wrote: »

Not sure how anyone on here is qualified to vote for the likes of Yashin.

they probably ain't but plenty of people did see him play in his prime and most agree that he was far and away the best, his stats/achievements bear this out
*only goalkeeper to ever win european footballer of the year
*480 clean sheets
*150 penalty saves
*voted best goalkeeper of the 20th century by the IFFHS

flahavaj

karma_ wrote: »

It's because Yashin is a completely legendary keeper and widely acknowledged by a lot of pro's as teh greatest keeper of all time, it's hardly his fault he didn't play for MU. I'd imagine if he did he'd be winning this poll right now.

No one on here has ever seen him play FFS. Don't turn this thread into yet another opportunity to peddle your lame and rather amusing obsesion with United, karma.

flahavaj

rossie1977 wrote: »

they probably ain't but plenty of people did see him play in his prime and most agree that he was far and away the best, his stats/achievements bear this out
*only goalkeeper to ever win european footballer of the year
*480 clean sheets
*150 penalty saves
*voted best goalkeeper of the 20th century by the IFFHS

Yes he must be the best because you heard he was.

Arguments like these never end well, all anyone can really give an opinion on is who they've seen themselves.

karma_

flahavaj wrote: »

Yes he must be the best because you heard he was.

Arguments like these never end well, all anyone can really give an opinion on is who they've seen themselves.

Ahh right so your the arbitrator of what peoples opinions should be now, sure why didn't you say so earlier?

I never seen Pele play but I know he was great, I never saw Best play but I know he was great, I never saw Cruyff nor Puskas play either but I know they were quality.

rossie1977

flahavaj wrote: »

Yes he must be the best because you heard he was.

Arguments like these never end well, all anyone can really give an opinion on is who they've seen themselves.

opinions are like a**holes in fairness

for me schmeichel wasn't the best i have seen, jennings was a far more reliable keeper, schmeichel made numerous huge errors in his career, most are forgotten now of course, schmeichel reminds me alot of reina, great keeper, makes amazing saves but prone to big lapses

flahavaj

karma_ wrote: »

Ahh right so your the arbitrator of what peoples opinions should be now, sure why didn't you say so earlier?

I never seen Pele play but I know he was great, I never saw Best play but I know he was great, I never saw Cruyff nor Puskas play either but I know they were quality.

Do you know enough from these stories you've heard to definitively say any of them was the greatest ever though?

karma_

flahavaj wrote: »

Do you know enough from these stories you've heard to definitively say any of them was the greatest ever though?

How can I definitely say? Sure isn't arguing over these very same issues what keeps a football fan occupied?

TonyD79

rossie1977 wrote: »

opinions are like a**holes in fairness

for me schmeichel wasn't the best i have seen, jennings was a far more reliable keeper, schmeichel made numerous huge errors in his career, most are forgotten now of course, schmeichel reminds me alot of reina, great keeper, makes amazing saves but prone to big lapses

Huge errors? Apart from one against Bayern in the group stages in his last season I cant remember many. The guy was a giant and looking at his youtube clips brings back the memories of what a great keeper he was. Looking at the clips of the Yashin I didnt see sight of bigger number 9 anywhere near him..steady eddie but not spectaclur.

Scuba Ste

eagle eye wrote: »

Yashin isn't even the best Russian, Dasayev was better than him.

Pffft he couldn't even save this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j1Z-0ZMM5Q

super_furry

Think I'd have David Seaman in there ahead of Shilton. Ray Clemence too.

hitman79

Keep checking the list above and think there is something wrong with my screen. No Neville Southall????

Yashin is known for being the greatest.

Dino Zoff and Bouffon after that.

Special mention for Ray Clemence - Legend.

JPA

Pro. F wrote: »

He was miles better than Casillas. There is no comparison.

I understand the admiration for Buffon. He is very special. But I can't agree with the dismissal of Schmeichel down to the ranks of Iker.

Personally I would have Schmeichel and Buffon at the top and I could see an argument for either of them. Lev Yeshin was supposedly great but there's no real way of knowing at this stage.

What kind of post is this?!

mono627

JPA wrote: »

What kind of post is this?!

A correct one.

Also went for Schmeichel.

Iron Hide

People seem to be basing their vote for Yashin on what they've heard or read in other polls or top 10 lists, i.e. "some professional sports writers/ranking bodies say he's number 1, he must be".

Schmeichel leads 56-17 btw, even Buffon is 1 up on Yashin.

BERBA

Rinat Dasaev imo , why isnt he included in poll?

flahavaj

rossie1977 wrote: »

schmeichel made numerous huge errors in his career, most are forgotten now of course, schmeichel reminds me alot of reina, great keeper, makes amazing saves but prone to big lapses

Just spotted this, what a dreadful post.:eek:

Degag

rossie1977 wrote: »

they probably ain't but plenty of people did see him play in his prime and most agree that he was far and away the best, his stats/achievements bear this out
*only goalkeeper to ever win european footballer of the year
*480 clean sheets
*150 penalty saves
*voted best goalkeeper of the 20th century by the IFFHS

You're not the only person to mention the highlighted facts, however it's interesting to note that on Wikipedia - where you and the others got the facts i presume - it notes that those facts need a citation. Those "facts" therefore are open to scutiny, even if they are on Wikipedia!!!!!!

iregk

For me it would have to be Rinat Dasaev but he isn't in the poll!!!!

rednik

Schmeichel all the way. I saw him play several times, he was without doubt a truly remarkable giant in the goal.

eagle eye

TonyD79 wrote: »

.......Ronaldinho....... Nayim........

Firstly the Nayim goal. If my memory serves me, David Seaman had badly damaged ribs and was wearing a protective vest in that game. This may have been responsible for him not being able to get to Nayim's shot. Its actually amazing he even played in that game.

He was 39 when Ronaldinho did that to him. He certainly deserves to be in the discussion and his name should be on that list.

Anybody who is saying that Peter Schmeichel shouldn't be on that list is just crazy. He is certainly in the conversation also.

For me Dasayev was better than both of them. He is not on that list either.

jaykay74

rossie1977 wrote: »

they probably ain't but plenty of people did see him play in his prime and most agree that he was far and away the best, his stats/achievements bear this out
*only goalkeeper to ever win european footballer of the year
*480 clean sheets
*150 penalty saves
*voted best goalkeeper of the 20th century by the IFFHS

I think a lot of the clean sheets were in 5 a side though.


http://www.talkfootball.co.uk/guides/football_legends_lev_yashin.html

Yashin concluded his career with the national side in 1967, having won 78 caps. He continued to play for Moscow, though, eventually retiring in 1971 with 326 appearances to his name. In honour of his incredible service to the game, FIFA reward him with a testimonial match in 1971 at Lenin Stadium in Moscow, between Dynamo and a European XI, in front of roughly 100,000 fans and fellow greats like Pele and Beckenbauer. When he eventually called time on his career proper, he had kept an astonishing 270 clean sheets, saving approximately 150 penalties in the process.

jaykay74

eagle eye wrote: »

For me Dasayev was better than both of them. He is not on that list either.

I'm curious how many games you have seen him play. I remember him from WC 86 and euro 88. Never saw him play a club match that I remember. Apparently he played in wc82 and 90 according to wiki anyway but 82 is too long ago for me and don't particularly remember him from italia 90. seemed decent in 86 and 88 anyway but thats not enough to tell me he is the best keeper of all time obviously. Maybe others have seen more of him ?

Bubs101

For me it's Gigi but apart from recent years he has always played behind an absolutely phenomenal defence.At international level you couldn't ask for one better and even at Parma he had a great one. Still, he came into the team and never lost his place after that and even after Toldo had the best tournament I've seen a keeper have Buffon still went back into the firts XI almost immediately

karma_

jaykay74 wrote: »

I'm curious how many games you have seen him play. I remember him from WC 86 and euro 88. Never saw him play a club match that I remember. Apparently he played in wc82 and 90 according to wiki anyway but 82 is too long ago for me and don't particularly remember him from italia 90. seemed decent in 86 and 88 anyway but thats not enough to tell me he is the best keeper of all time obviously. Maybe others have seen more of him ?

Does it really matter how much we have seen someone play to have a discussion on a 'Greatest player of all time' thread? It really shouldn't otherwise the debate should be titled 'Best player of your generation.'

jaykay74

karma_ wrote: »

Does it really matter how much we have seen someone play to have a discussion on a 'Greatest player of all time' thread? It really shouldn't otherwise the debate should be titled 'Best player of your generation.'

wut

I am just wondering what he is basing it on. Maybe he will come back and say he read his autobio or something who knows. is that ok with you

karma_

jaykay74 wrote: »

wut

I am just wondering what he is basing it on. Maybe he will come back and say he read his autobio or something who knows. is that ok with you

Jaysus, I wasn't even having a go, it's just that that old chestnut about having seen someone play has been mentioned a fair number of times in this thread now, needs to be put to bed.

Boskowski

Who in gods name voted for Zubi?
He was the personification of the Spanish goalie problem for years...

Johnny Utah

The Invincible Pat Jennings. Pair of hands like shovels and he didn't even bother to wear gloves like some of the pansies of today!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjbe6AMMsyI

cournioni

Very hard to say to be honest, I'm sure there have been some outstanding goalkeepers before my generation. The best ones I've ever seen have been Van Der Sar, Schmeichel, Seaman, Kahn, Cech, Buffon, Julio Cesar and Casillas. Being a keeper myself, my personal favourite is Van der Sar for his all round game. His concentration, positioning, footwork, shot stopping, cross claiming etc is second to none. Most keepers fail on the very basic parts of their game, Van der Sar doesn't.

orourkeda

Packie Bonner

pickarooney

Probably not the best keeper ever but Angelo Peruzzi was my favourite keeper, even ahead of Buffon.

Mr Posh

I’m surprised Oli Kahn as so few votes, he was a rock with amazing presences around the box, as he played most of his carrier for Bayern in the Bundesliga I suppose there would be less exposure to him in Ireland than Peter Schmeichel.

parker kent

Seaneh wrote: »

Buffon or Yashin, flip a fu*king coin, it's those two miles ahead of the rest.

I'd pick Buffon because I actually seen him play a lot where as Yashin I only know by records/reputation.

Not picking on you in particular, but how can anybody decide that somebody is the best when they have actually rarely watched them, if ever? Surely all we can do is the pick the best we have witnessed. Allowances can be made for international players in the 1980s if posters were not old enough or alive at the time (as plenty of video exists to watch full length games).

But how many people here have ever actually watched Lev Yashin? It is possible to watch certain games from the 1960s (especially England's games at 1966 or United) but it is not the same as viewing them week-in, week-out. Yashin's games are particularly difficult to track down as he played in the Soviet Union. Records are one method, but statistics do not always tell the full story. I feel you must have watched the player at length to make decisions like in the poll.

So it is Buffon for me as he is the best keeper in my lifetime. Followed by Schmeichel, Kahn and Zenga.

parker kent

Seaneh wrote: »

Exactly.
It's the same as the Cantona argument.
Big fish, small pond.
The English league in the 90's was muck. United didn't even start progressing in Europe until 1999. Before that season nobody in Europe considered them a threat!

Semi-finalists in 1997 in a year they beat Juventus, beat the heavily fancied Porto 4-0 in the quarter final and were extremely unlucky to lost the semi-final against Dortmund, the eventual winners. A severe injury crisis hampered them in the quarter-final the following season against Monaco when they were eliminated on away goals. Otherwise it is generally believed they would have reached the semi-finals. That is slightly different to what you suggest.

Don't forget Schmeichel was key in winning the European Championships with Denmark too. In 1992 and 1993 he won the prestigious IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper award.

peabutler

You do know the last winner of the IFFHS award was none other than Chelsea's Hilario !!!!! Not so prestigous Aye

parker kent

peabutler wrote: »

You do know the last winner of the IFFHS award was none other than Chelsea's Hilario !!!!! Not so prestigous Aye

Iker Casillas has won the last two.

peabutler

Wikipedia fail.

EDIT: But Gigi Buffon has one the award 4 times so if anyone is using that as some sort of measure !

efb

parker kent wrote: »

Not picking on you in particular, but how can anybody decide that somebody is the best when they have actually rarely watched them, if ever? Surely all we can do is the pick the best we have witnessed. Allowances can be made for international players in the 1980s if posters were not old enough or alive at the time (as plenty of video exists to watch full length games).

But how many people here have ever actually watched Lev Yashin? It is possible to watch certain games from the 1960s (especially England's games at 1966 or United) but it is not the same as viewing them week-in, week-out. Yashin's games are particularly difficult to track down as he played in the Soviet Union. Records are one method, but statistics do not always tell the full story. I feel you must have watched the player at length to make decisions like in the poll.

So it is Buffon for me as he is the best keeper in my lifetime. Followed by Schmeichel, Kahn and Zenga.

Then change the name of the thread to Best Keeper since 1992

Seaneh

peabutler wrote: »

Wikipedia fail.

EDIT: But Gigi Buffon has one the award 4 times so if anyone is using that as some sort of measure !

He is also officially, according to FIFA statistics, the best keeper of all time. Shots saved, clean sheets, penalty saves etc.

parker kent

karma_ wrote: »

Does it really matter how much we have seen someone play to have a discussion on a 'Greatest player of all time' thread? It really shouldn't otherwise the debate should be titled 'Best player of your generation.'

Of course it matters. What about pre-war players who have nobody around the discuss their merits? The likes of Billy Merideth etc are never mentioned in great player threads because nobody was around to see them and nobody on the media was around to see them.

Then add in that most books on great players are written from the 1970s onwards, it is clear that discussing players you actually saw plays a role in who wins these polls. You must also take into account that references to Yashin, Duncan Edwards etc may not necessarily be accurate. Just because somebody who saw them in the 1950s or 1960s says they were the best, does not make them the best.

You have to take many things into account when reading such material. Some people may suffer from rose tinted memories of their childhoods. Some people may have special memories attached to certain players who were their idols (the way I do with Roy Keane for example, he was Ireland's best player when I was a teenager, that alters my long-term view as I will always fondly remember my teenage years). The add in other matters such as the varying quality of leagues back then, vested interests of opposing players (they will always say they played against better players than in other eras), problems comparing players across generations etc etc. The list of reasons is endless.

I think the best anybody can say is that so-and-so was the best they have witnessed.