*** Spoiler Thread*** UFC 124 St-Pierre vs. Koscheck!!

dunkamania

The fight of the night was awarded based on fan online voting, for the first time, which is really stupid, and I hope they never do it again. Although Dana has said he will take care of the guys he feels were overlooked.

mailburner

thanks guys

i wasn't aware of that
stupid decision by white

Mellor

mailburner wrote: »

thanks guys

i wasn't aware of that
stupid decision by white

it was in response t fan complaining about FOTN choices. This way the "right" choice would be made (in the fans eyes).
Dana has said it's not going to happen again. They had their chance

scudzilla

Mellor wrote: »

it was in response t fan complaining about FOTN choices. This way the "right" choice would be made (in the fans eyes).
Dana has said it's not going to happen again. They had their chance

Half of Canada would have voted for GSP, there lies the problem.

If he wanted to let the fans vote then why not let the fans in the Fight Club vote

Mellor

Yeah, would be a better option, you also smarter fans voting imo

scudzilla

Mellor wrote: »

Yeah, would be a better option, you also smarter fans voting imo

On second thoughts not really, the place was inundated with Canadians after UFC83 and was never the same since. They were even starting threads like 'What haircut you gonna have for UFC83' and were serious about it.
I left shortly after, as did a lot of other long time posters.

I'm back there now but only on the budget membership

t-ha

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

Kos is a better wrestler though.

Kos needs to change the overhand to an uppercut

I thought the same, he even clipped Georges when he went for it once.

Having said that, I'm not the one standing infront of GSP with a fractured orbital bone, and uppercuts can leave you even more open for a counter left hook than the overhand right & he couldn't see punches from that side so he couldn't time the counter himself. Sucks for Josh - taking that initial shot to the eye really f**ked up his whole fight.

GSP was amazing, as usual. I honestly believe he knew that Koscheck would work the hell out of his wrestling and it might be a stale-mate, so he made sure he was prepared to beat him in the stand-up. That's what makes him unbelievable - he can outstrike Alves, out-wrestle Fitch, and sit in BJ Penn's gaurd happily while mashing his face in. The only WW I can see beating GSP now is a hybrid with Koscheck's wrestling, Alves' striking and Hardy's size and reach - and even then it would be a toss-up!

MrStuffins

Sid_Justice wrote: »

What argument? There is no argument. Basically this is a perfect example of someone who is relatively new to the sport telling someone who is less new to the sport that their opinion is uninformed because they disagree with them.

So who is the one who is relatively new to the sport? It seems to me that, by saying "nut-hugger!, it is you saying that the other's opinion in uninformed and based less on facts but more on fandom.

unknown13

dunkamania wrote: »

The fight of the night was awarded based on fan online voting, for the first time, which is really stupid, and I hope they never do it again. Although Dana has said he will take care of the guys he feels were overlooked.

The Canadians have nothing else to do other than vote for GSP in everything there is a public vote for.

MrStuffins

unknown13 wrote: »

The Canadians have nothing else to do other than vote for GSP in everything there is a public vote for.

I heard he won The X Factor last night too!

unknown13

MrStuffins wrote: »

I heard he won The X Factor last night too!

If the Canadians could vote in X factor and GSP was in it, he would probably win it.

MrStuffins

unknown13 wrote: »

If the Canadians could vote in X factor and GSP was in it, he would probably win it.

I don't know.... i mean.... it'd be a pretty long show in that case.

Would GSP ever finish a song? :pac:

sonic.trip

MrStuffins wrote: »

I don't know.... i mean.... it'd be a pretty long show in that case.

Would GSP ever finish a song? :pac:

lol, everyone is in a giddy, lets slag GSP mood the last 48hours!

sonic.trip

mailburner wrote: »

any idea how long that 4/1 about gsp points was available?
that price was a gift, i dont bet with boyles so i was never
going to see it and am sorry i wasn't looking here
id imagine there was a limit to what stake you could put on though?
you couldve made a fortune laying it off at less than half that price

I noticed it Friday afternoon, hence why I put it up here as a tip to tell everyone. PP were only giving 6/4 and betfair 15/8. I think Boyles mixed up the price with the submission as that was only 13/10 lol. I don't bet with Boyles anymore as they banned me from betting (I tried to punish them when they never took down 2 fights that were both over!) although they do give better prices for UFC than PP.

Me and my mate put a 40e double between us on GSP points and amir khan points (which was a cracking fight by the way) and cleaned 670, I also had a tenner on GSP points

MrStuffins

sonic.trip wrote: »

I noticed it Friday afternoon, hence why I put it up here as a tip to tell everyone. PP were only giving 6/4 and betfair 15/8. I think Boyles mixed up the price with the submission as that was only 13/10 lol. I don't bet with Boyles anymore as they banned me from betting (I tried to punish them when they never took down 2 fights that were both over!) although they do give better prices for UFC than PP.

Me and my mate put a 40e double between us on GSP points and amir khan points (which was a cracking fight by the way) and cleaned 670, I also had a tenner on GSP points

Yeah i noticed the 4/1 the other day, stuck a large bet on and text all my friends.

I honestly couldn't believe it! Thought it must've been a mistake. Either that or they have someone with no clue about MMA doing their odds, possibly Cecil Peoples!

Sid_Justice

Sid_Justice wrote: »

didn't read it the first time, not reading it now.

It's very hard to contribute to a debate if you only want to hear the sound of your own voice.............



I was thoroughly impressed with GSP's performance. Not a whole lot to say about it that hasn't been said. All I will say is that it's a pity that GSP doesn't IMO get the recognition that he deserves for what he is currently doing. It's not like he's fighting cans in a weak division.

Alves looked great. 1st time he's made weight without looking completely drained too. Maybe working with Dolce is the answer. I know he was fighting a striker but he looked great. Very technical. Very patient. And his wrestling looked strong. this is the 1st time since the Kos fight that I've seen that killer instinct in Alves.

I feel sorry for Jim Miller. He's always impressing me, and Dana pointed out in his interview with Ariel Halweni that in the entire press conference, nobody asked him a question. He deserves more recognition than he gets IMO.

Stefan Streuve vs Sean McCorkle had no business being co main event IMO but it turned out as an OK fight. I still don't think Streuve is anywhere near ready enough to step up to the next level of competition but time will tell.

The Danzig KO of Stevenson was one of those "whoa, what just happened?" moment, very surreal! That's the great thing about MMA. One minute there's nothing really happeneing and then BOOM, it's over. Much like Millers finish of Olivera. Charles Olivera's reactions implied that he didn't think he was in a whole lot of danger. He seemed to chill in that position rather than initiate a scramble and try to kick his leg out. Next thing he was tapping. Just like that.

Also impressed with Boceks triangle. He worked it very well from mount and the way he adjusted to tighten up Dustins arm across his body was very nice.

DeVore

DeVore wrote: »

I have to wonder about the people who say all he did was punch and kick kos without getting hit. What did they think they were tuning in to see... A bake off? A knitting competition?

The core question is... Is GSP a fighter or an entertainer. In fact is any competitor a fighter or an entertainer?? Because they can't be both. They are similar in some respects but they diverge critically and become contradictory, ultimately.

Gap did exactly what was needed to win as a fighter. He was clearly winning all 5 rounds, it would have been absolute madness and sheer stupidity to risk a wild swing from kos and get knocked out. It would have been really really stupid, as a fighter.

As an entertainer, it would have been the right thing to do.

So, you can't have it both ways. Either you are entertained by his fighting or you are tuning in to see a show.

DeV.

Quoted especially for Sid.:)

Im not "nut hugging" (and seriously, can we leave that term on Sherdog, pwetty pwease?). I'm not asking a rhetorical question either. I didn't find the fight entertaining from a highlights reel pov, but as some one who trains in boxing as a hobby, I found it an exhibition.

The question is genuine and no one has given me an anwser or a counter view.

I contend that it's the heart of the matter...

DeV.

D.Q

DeVore wrote: »

Quoted especially for Sid.:)

Im not "nut hugging" (and seriously, can we leave that term on Sherdog, pwetty pwease?). I'm not asking a rhetorical question either. I didn't find the fight entertaining from a highlights reel pov, but as some one who trains in boxing as a hobby, I found it an exhibition.

The question is genuine and no one has given me an anwser or a counter view.

I contend that it's the heart of the matter...

DeV.

Completely agree. People can't call for entertainment, when one of the most important elements of UFC is the realism.

Thats the difference between pro wrestling and UFC. The build up to the fight is sold the same way. But when it comes to the fight, thats where it changes. With Pro wrestling, the entertainment is still the most important thing. The two wrestlers are trying to put on a show, so the wild punches and their "characters" are all still there and central to the show.

Obviously with MMA that changes, as its real. The two fighters still play characters, so to speak, in order to get more ppv buys. Now I'm not saying UFC is fake before Im crucified, but all the thrash talk etc before the fight. More often than not thats forgotten about after the fight. But then in the octagon all that matters is that the two fighters want to win the fight.

GSPs performance was tactical excellence. I think thats the best thing about MMA. Theres so many ways to win a fight.

DeVore

DeVore wrote: »

Quoted especially for Sid.:)

Im not "nut hugging" (and seriously, can we leave that term on Sherdog, pwetty pwease?). I'm not asking a rhetorical question either. I didn't find the fight entertaining from a highlights reel pov, but as some one who trains in boxing as a hobby, I found it an exhibition.

The question is genuine and no one has given me an anwser or a counter view.

I contend that it's the heart of the matter...

DeV.

You won't find too many people disagree because it's true. Anyone who remotely has an interest in the technical side of the sport, and isn't just interested in a brawl, would have to be blown away by GSP. The guy is a phenom, a real thinking mans fighter.

I also find it incredible that he makes top class guys look ordinary, and yet its GSP who gets criticised and not his "victims".........


On the entertainment vs winning point, yes, it's cool to see a guy entertain while winning but it is hard to do all of the time. If you're Anderson Silva and you fight a superior wrestler, it's hard to showcase those exciting stand up techniques when you're on your back..... I have no doubt that when he is lying there getting elbowed in the head, he isn't thinking "hmmm, I wonder how I can make this more exciting for the fans, maybe I'll let him keep hitting me". Hell no. He's strategising on how to avoid getting hit andeither escaping the position, and catching his opponent in a submission.

It's his job to win first, extertainment comes after.

If you have to win ugly, you win ugly. You don't lose by abandoning what works to make it more exciting. otherwise you end up like Jorge Gurgel.

If you have to win technical, in a combative chess match, then you do so. You outsmart your opponent.

For me, watching a fighter implement a smart strategy, is very exciting, even if it isn't action packed.

The only thing that I think is justified criticism is when fighters won't engage.

MrStuffins

Deleted User wrote: »

You won't find too many people disagree because it's true. Anyone who remotely has an interest in the technical side of the sport, and isn't just interested in a brawl, would have to be blown away by GSP. The guy is a phenom, a real thinking mans fighter.

I also find it incredible that he makes top class guys look ordinary, and yet its GSP who gets criticised and not his "victims".........


On the entertainment vs winning point, yes, it's cool to see a guy entertain while winning but it is hard to do all of the time. If you're Anderson Silva and you fight a superior wrestler, it's hard to showcase those exciting stand up techniques when you're on your back..... I have no doubt that when he is lying there getting elbowed in the head, he isn't thinking "hmmm, I wonder how I can make this more exciting for the fans, maybe I'll let him keep hitting me". Hell no. He's strategising on how to avoid getting hit andeither escaping the position, and catching his opponent in a submission.

It's his job to win first, extertainment comes after.

If you have to win ugly, you win ugly. You don't lose by abandoning what works to make it more exciting. otherwise you end up like Jorge Gurgel.

If you have to win technical, in a combative chess match, then you do so. You outsmart your opponent.

For me, watching a fighter implement a smart strategy, is very exciting, even if it isn't action packed.

The only thing that I think is justified criticism is when fighters won't engage.

I have read the first line of your post and will read no further as I have formed the opinion that you are a nut-hugger!

Good day to you Sir!

:pac:

MrStuffins

MrStuffins wrote: »

I have read the first line of your post and will read no further as I have formed the opinion that you are a nut-hugger!

Good day to you Sir!

:pac:

Hater!

MrStuffins

In other news, Thiago Alves looked incredible! Quck, sharp, fit, accurate. It's insane to think the guy is still only 27!

DeVore

My criticism of Koscheck is that I was appalled by how little he brought to the fight. Ok so you spend one round trying to implement your game plan and not play your opponents game. Fine. But when that's not working and you are getting beaten you HAVE to change tactics. Kos didn't.

To be fair to him it was unfortunate that his eye swelled up in the first. It would have been a better fight otherwise I think. But on the evidence I saw, if it wasn't the first, it would have been the second, or third or or or... GSP was hitting him at will with that jab even before the swelling.

When the big right hook wasn't working, he should have gone to something else. He can't be a one trick pony at that level. He spent 5 rounds looking for a right hook that was never gonna come and by the time he switched to try an upper cut (which I'm sure landed mostly because GSP was surprised kos threw anything:) ) I was beginning to feel sorry for him, it was no longer a fight really at that stage. It was one guy beating on another at will. In the final round Koscheck simply huddled trying to protect that eye and I began to feel they should have stopped it before then. Fair dues to Koscheck for not quitting tbh, maybe he should have.

DeV.

RNO

I assume that if I like GSP, I have to be a nut-hugger…
About GSP/Kosckeck, again I’m impressed by this strategy; GSP is able to stick to his strategy like a robot for what he’s programmed. He never gets excited or overwhelmed by feelings. I’m pretty sure that if has an opportunity he’ll try to use it, but only if it’s a low percentage risk. If I remember well, He tried to move twice in Koscheck’s back but leave it quickly to come back in “the plan”.
Have a good strategy, especially when you are the belt holder, is to find the way to go to the end without loose, manage to avoid strong point to your opponent and fight where he’s weak. It’s what he did.
Koscheck is a very good athlete, and everything GSP does, he can do it. But GSP is one level above, I hope that Kos will learn something about this fight and come back with better strategy in the future. In this fight, his aim was not to be thrown and come back in stand up, he did it very well, but where was the second part of the game plan, the winning side? Especially as a contender.

Last word about “French Canadian nut-hugger”…what to say….may be a small place, Quebec, of 8 million people don’t get every days to have a champion recognize to be one of the best in he’s sport. And they are proud of that.
I wonder if one day an Irish stand as the best P4P in MMA and come to fight in is mother country, in Dublin, what could be the attitude of the Irish crowd. Silence and calm in the arena I guess, and very fair play for both opponents.
Stupid French Canadian…

DeVore

RNO, I don't think anyone is seriously criticising the Canadian crowd, nor would I say the Irish crowd would react any differently. We've already had a few world sporting champions...

DeV.

RNO

I know it Dev,irish boxer are very good. I just make the comparison.

« Vive le Québec libre ! »

unknown13

MrStuffins wrote: »

I don't know.... i mean.... it'd be a pretty long show in that case.

Would GSP ever finish a song? :pac:

If he ever did X-Factor he would probably sound better than some of the crap he walks into:

EAR RAPE WARNING: (Its that bad)

" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>

That was his 124 entrance music.

Sid_Justice

DeVore wrote: »

The core question is... Is GSP a fighter or an entertainer. In fact is any competitor a fighter or an entertainer?? Because they can't be both. They are similar in some respects but they diverge critically and become contradictory, ultimately.

I don't agree. I understand where you're coming from. But I guess, the sublime can be both. Ali could be both, French rugby at full tilt is both, Arsenal at full speed are both. People that put on a show without sacrificing an inch in efficacy. I'm not saying GSP needs to say silly things to the camera or do some antics.

I was impressed by his performance (Lol for the reference and lol at me being 'critical' of the best fighter in the world). He showed when he fights someone with equivalent wrestling be can put on a striking clinic. But ultimately the fight ended the way it started, I was never on the end of my seat and I didn't say wow. This is not a criticism of GSP, his role as entertainer/competitor isn't relevant. The criticism is the fight wasn't a contest. This wasn't a two sided war between 2 evenly matched athletes. Nor does this mean i want to see a brawl. You can have a top quality, 100% technical bout between 2 athletes and you will never know who wins until someone finishes it or it goes to the judge. This is what I call entertainment.

I don't call Brazil beating Andorra 10-0 entertainment. I want to see a game that ends 3-2 not 5-0.

So yes, if GSP was going to dominate KOS it would have been more entertaining if be finished the fight with a head kick. But i'd have rather seen a more evenly matched bout. I hope Shields can put GSP in dangerous territory and it will be interesting to see GSP cope in deep waters, he has not been in that situation for a long time. If GSP does what he did to Kos to Shields I guess the only way is up.

RNO

I believe that Shields will have free flying lessons.

MrStuffins

Sid_Justice wrote: »

I don't call Brazil beating Andorra 10-0 entertainment. I want to see a game that ends 3-2 not 5-0.

But GSP hasn't been fighting Andorra or San Marino, he's been fighting, Spain, Germany, Portugal. And then wiping the floor with them!

If Spain played against Brazil and beat them 10-0, i don't see how you can criticise them for it! But some people just will and then call people "nut-huggers" for disagreeing :rolleyes:

Mellor

Sid_Justice wrote: »

I don't agree. I understand where you're coming from. But I guess, the sublime can be both.

Some can be both of course. But the point is it's not his job to be entertaining. It's his job to fight, he goal is to win. If he does so and entertains, then so be it.

I wanted a KO too btw

Sid_Justice

MrStuffins wrote: »

But GSP hasn't been fighting Andorra or San Marino, he's been fighting, Spain, Germany, Portugal. And then wiping the floor with them!

If Spain played against Brazil and beat them 10-0, i don't see how you can criticise them for it! But some people just will and then call people "nut-huggers" for disagreeing :rolleyes:

just read the posts rather than looking for things that aren't there to disagree with it. i didn't criticise gsp, i criticised the fight for not being competitive. you might say brazil beating spain 10-0 is the best bit of football you've ever seen, i'd say it was an uncompetitive thrashing and not my cup of tea. if you don't get that stop using things like :rolleyes:

MrStuffins

Sid_Justice wrote: »

just read the posts rather than looking for things that aren't there to disagree with it. i didn't criticise gsp, i criticised the fight for not being competitive. you might say brazil beating spain 10-0 is the best bit of football you've ever seen, i'd say it was an uncompetitive thrashing and not my cup of tea. if you don't get that stop using things like :rolleyes:

Yes it IS a trashing! You used Brazil v Andorra as a comparison. But GSP v Koscheck is not Brasil v Andorra.

GSP v Kos was never a mismatch, GSP's dominance just made it look that way.

Oh and i used :rolleyes: because you used the term "Nut-Hugger". So if you wish to continue this debate i guess we should take it to Sherdog where that kind of stuff belongs.

Sid_Justice

did i use the term mismatch?

MrStuffins

Sid_Justice wrote: »

did i use the term mismatch?

You compared it to a mismatch from another sport. You didn't need to.

Sid_Justice

k