Horses Headford Road Shocking Conditions

Discodog

Based on my limited experience with neglected horses from the same community they don't dump them. The best technique was to monitor the horses - small battery powered CCTV works well. Eventually, when the coast is clear, Mr Owner turns up. Makes it hard to deny it in Court as well.

I remember the hilarious episode of the RTE series on SPCA's where Janine, the Galway Inspector was at a horse fair. She asked who owned a donkey & all the men turned away in a not me kind of way. So she said Ok if no one owns it I will take it. At which point a grovelling guy creeps out of the crowd.

Now I appreciate that times are harder now. If they have been dumped then there are no obstacles to seizing them.

doctor evil

I think there are two places that process horses, I think a different line of machinery is used in the processing compared to other species. I feel a cull is the best way to go.

There was a piece on Nationwide about horse meat for human consumption. I know vets want more leeway to allow any drugs to leave the horses system, this would mean more animals could be processed.

Discodog

Delays while deciding how to process a corpse should never be a reason for letting an animal suffer.

doctor evil

Discodog wrote: »

Delays while deciding how to process a corpse should never be a reason for letting an animal suffer.

I know that but I mean under present rules some horses are excluded from slaughter and not all injections are recorded on passports. There are plenty of folk who see the 'corpse' as a meat source.

dvet

Hey guys,

Thought I'd post a link to the recent report published on Equine Welfare in Ireland. I've only just read the first few pages so far, as I wanted to post the link before I head to bed, but it looks like it could be an interesting read!

It describes the horse industry as it currently stands in ireland, as well as recommendations for how horse welfare needs to be improved etc, and with regards to the last few posts, there's a section on the disposal of horses as well...

http://www.veterinaryireland.ie/Links/PDFs/UCD_EquineWelfare_Report.pdf

statto25

Spotted a Garda Jeep, a galway council van and two horseboxes and jeeps this morning parked on the garden centre side of the curragh line. Looks like they were about to start moving the horses?

Carolyyn

Discodog wrote: »

The people who care & live in Galway need to get together online.

Getting together online is very passive, not everyone spends a great deal of their free time on the Internet. Some just prefer to be active and help out in practical ways.

Sec

statto25 wrote: »

Spotted a Garda Jeep, a galway council van and two horseboxes and jeeps this morning parked on the garden centre side of the curragh line. Looks like they were about to start moving the horses?

I have just received this email from the County Veterinary Officer about these horses:

As the lands in question are in private ownership however, it was necessary to establish ownership and then make contact with the land owner before any steps could be taken. I can confirm that 12 abandoned horses have been seized from this area recently. To date we have not been able to establish ownership of the horses.
I wish to emphasise that it is the original owners of the horses in question who are responsible for their neglect. I trust this clarifies the position.

QuantumAoif

TristanPeter wrote: »

I have been keeping an eye on the 4 horses alongside the Rahoon Road (by the Linen Supply factory). One of them has a hugely swollen stomach. Could it be pregnant at this time of year I already emailed the GSPCA and the Dept. of Agri. about it because it doesn't seem well. It stands turned away from the other horses and it doesn't seem to be feeding. There is silage there now but it was only put there fairly lately after putting lots of pressure on the GSPCA to help do something. it's stomach isn't symmetrically swollen. It looks like it's more-so on one side.

Hi TristanPeter, I have been keeping an eye on those horses as well the past month, I saw they were being fed so kept bringing them some water. I have also been extremely concerned about a pony opposite them on land where there is an empty house. I was bringing water to him also and food until I saw that someone was feeding him and also bringing him water.He's quite nervous so people don't see him unless you walk up to the wall. I thought it was the owner who was feeding and watering him so stopped a couple of days ago, don't know much about horses and didn't want to intrude, but thought no harm in bringing fresh water in a couple of buckets I got for them. Do you know of this pony? Unlike the herd across the road, which he can see, cruel in its own way, he is on his own. I checked on him the last day even just for some company, and after walked across the road to check on the other horses, he then came up to the wall neighing at me to come back. I'm going to ring, email all numbers on this tomorrow, to highlight this horses case, because as far as I can see he has no shelter and no company, and I've been informed by a horse owner that its even more cruel that he can see a herd across the road from him. God, my heart, I wish people would take care of their animals in these kind of conditions!!!

QuantumAoif

Also, I will join a lobby!!

Sec

QuantumAoif wrote: »

Hi TristanPeter, I have been keeping an eye on those horses as well the past month, I saw they were being fed so kept bringing them some water. I have also been extremely concerned about a pony opposite them on land where there is an empty house. I was bringing water to him also and food until I saw that someone was feeding him and also bringing him water.He's quite nervous so people don't see him unless you walk up to the wall. I thought it was the owner who was feeding and watering him so stopped a couple of days ago, don't know much about horses and didn't want to intrude, but thought no harm in bringing fresh water in a couple of buckets I got for them. Do you know of this pony? Unlike the herd across the road, which he can see, cruel in its own way, he is on his own. I checked on him the last day even just for some company, and after walked across the road to check on the other horses, he then came up to the wall neighing at me to come back. I'm going to ring, email all numbers on this tomorrow, to highlight this horses case, because as far as I can see he has no shelter and no company, and I've been informed by a horse owner that its even more cruel that he can see a herd across the road from him. God, my heart, I wish people would take care of their animals in these kind of conditions!!!

QuantumAoif, we had been checking on this pony as well and giving it hayledge and water in the evenings. It was heartbreaking because she was tiny and had no food, water or shelter and the weather was unbearably cold at that time. After a lot of emailing and calling the GSPCA, council etc. the GSPCA found it's owner and it was moved. They have said that they will monitor the poor thing so I really hope they can. The group of horses across the road usually have bales of hay but sometimes they can go days without food or water...

crally

HI i have set up a facebook page...Galway Horse Welfare. could you all take a look as i want to build awareness. i phoned Sarah from EGAR rescue and she said she will help me in any way she can. So get your cameras, take photos and send them to me to and i will upload them. i spoke to Niall O'Brochlain today and i plan to meet him in January. I think this facebook page will keep people in touch and maybe we can report animals on the page and draw attention to the cruelty that is going on in this country...IT IS SHOCKING and something needs to be done about it. so please take a look at the facebook page. I am not up to speed so i hope i set it up properly. all experts are welcome to help me do the page. thanks

QuantumAoif

Sec wrote: »

QuantumAoif, we had been checking on this pony as well and giving it hayledge and water in the evenings. It was heartbreaking because she was tiny and had no food, water or shelter and the weather was unbearably cold at that time. After a lot of emailing and calling the GSPCA, council etc. the GSPCA found it's owner and it was moved. They have said that they will monitor the poor thing so I really hope they can. The group of horses across the road usually have bales of hay but sometimes they can go days without food or water...

O God don't know if thats better or worse! Wonder where the "owner" move her. At least where she was she was being fed and watered. I hope you got a name from the person in the GSPCA, and that they do keep monitoring her, Yikes. Somehow I don't feel better As for the other poor horses, they are still there this Eve, at least they have a herd to huddle together with!

EGAR

Re the horses on the Headford road. I would get a vet out and scan the horses for microchips. By law all horses must be chipped and passported. I know that an awful lot are not but it is worth a try as the owner can be traced via the chip. The main priority for me would be to find the owner, hold him accountable for abandoning the horses and charge him. The horses need to get out of there, there will always be another winter and they need to be treated for endo and ektoparasites etc pp.

Discodog

Sec wrote: »

I can confirm that 12 abandoned horses have been seized from this area recently. To date we have not been able to establish ownership of the horses.
I wish to emphasise that it is the original owners of the horses in question who are responsible for their neglect. I trust this clarifies the position.

So what are they going to do with them now would seem to be the key question.

The County Vet is clearly unaware of the Law. From the ISPCA legal handbook:

"Who is presumed to own a mistreated animal found on private land?

For the purposes of any proceedings the occupier of the land where an animal is found is presumed to be the owner of the animal, unless the contrary is proven, Section 16 of the 1965 Act."

In other words the Landowner must know who owns the animals on his land. If he is unwilling to reveal this then he can be deemed to be the owner.

Carolyyn wrote: »

Getting together online is very passive, not everyone spends a great deal of their free time on the Internet. Some just prefer to be active and help out in practical ways.

Much of what has happened to date is the result of emails & lobbying. You cannot expect people who live miles away to be able to help on site. However many of these people have a wealth of experience. Most of the major Animal Welfare legislation comes from online lobbying.

TristanPeter

I think using an online forum is a great way of communicating and exchanging information within a group but is there a need for a group to actually physically march into some of the relevant authorities (with appointments of course ) and demand answers to questions that have been put to them time and time again? Would this be more likely to force them into action? What about a petition? If we put a petition on the desks of local councils, politicians etc. with hundreds of signatures on it, do they have to act? Everything can be coordinated online which is great but perhaps a show of solidarity is what's needed.

DVET, DD, AD amongst others have pointed out that laws are already in place to deal with cruelty. Therefore, what about a petition to force local councils to enforce the laws/prosecute offenders or a petition to get them to change the status of local areas into controlled areas?

I could easily get 10-20 people to willingly sign a petition because so many people are sick of the same "it's not our problem" attitude or the "it's on private land/it's on public land" scenario that they love to throw about. I also believe that many of the authorities feign ignorance of the law as a means of avoiding their duty but as a garda told me a few years ago when the public drinking laws were changed "ignorance is not an excuse!"

crally

Hi TristanPeter, i am with you on this one. i can get lots of signatures. how do we go about doing this. i have put up a face book page, will this be a good platform??

TristanPeter

What if we decide on the specific purpose and wording of the petition and then once that's defined we could upload it here. Then a common template will be available for anyone who's interested to print off. Once the petitions are filled with signatures they could be compiled and submitted to the relevant authorities.

I don't know the full ins and outs of how to go about putting a petition together so these are just suggestions. I suppose the most important thing is to to know exactly what it is we want the authorities to do based on laws already in place.

dvet

There should be good enough interest in this to get a decent amount of support, this thread has had almost 3,400 views alone so even a percentage of that would be a start, plus getting locals involved etc...

dvet

crally, I think you can set up petitions for free on petitions.ie, if that's any good to you?

Discodog

How can you format a petition ?. You would have to be very specific with the proposition otherwise the Council will just say that they agree with it & are already implementing it. For example if you say that offenders must be prosecuted the Council will merely reply that it is up to the Guards.

The only thing that concerns Councillors is getting re-elected. The only thing that worries Councils is bad publicity.

The likely outcome of the Headford Horses episode is that many of them will be put down. There is no alternative to this unless you can persuade someone to rehome them. The same applies to all the other neglected horses. Horse owners are not like dog owners. A dog is a pet, a horse is a commodity.

The only additional protection would be to get Galway designated as a Controlled Area. This would give the authorities more powers but it does penalise responsible horse owners. It also depends on the Council for enforcement & they will argue that they do not have the money.

Many responsible horse owners will be very wary of supporting a campaign. It will mean that they have comply & also they will not like the idea of "campaigners" complaining about their horses.

And before someone says it I am not being pessimistic just realistic.

dvet

Discodog wrote: »

How can you format a petition ?. You would have to be very specific with the proposition otherwise the Council will just say that they agree with it & are already implementing it. For example if you say that offenders must be prosecuted the Council will merely reply that it is up to the Guards.

The only thing that concerns Councillors is getting re-elected. The only thing that worries Councils is bad publicity.

The likely outcome of the Headford Horses episode is that many of them will be put down. There is no alternative to this unless you can persuade someone to rehome them. The same applies to all the other neglected horses. Horse owners are not like dog owners. A dog is a pet, a horse is a commodity.

The only additional protection would be to get Galway designated as a Controlled Area. This would give the authorities more powers but it does penalise responsible horse owners. It also depends on the Council for enforcement & they will argue that they do not have the money.

Many responsible horse owners will be very wary of supporting a campaign. It will mean that they have comply & also they will not like the idea of "campaigners" complaining about their horses.

And before someone says it I am not being pessimistic just realistic.

I don't think you're being pessimistic at all. That is totally the reality of the situation.

Out of interest, what would a 'Controlled Area' entail?

crally

hi i spoke to Valerie Huges of Galway Bay and she said that she needs people on the ground, a network of people, to check out reports of starving horses also for all to keep an eye on a horse near them and she will provide feed if needed. you will get her at galway bay 770077

crally

If we could concentrate on feeding these animals and we can discuss the problems of the law at a later date. Because they will not survive this weather!

TristanPeter

Thanks Crally. I'll give here a call now. Did she specify any horses/areas in particular (just in case she's not at work)?

Discodog

crally wrote: »

If we could concentrate on feeding these animals and we can discuss the problems of the law at a later date. Because they will not survive this weather!

One does not exclude the other. If people are not pursued then the word will just go out that you can leave your horse to be fed by someone else. There has to be some long term thought as to the future of these horses.

The volunteers will need to know a little on how to assess the condition of a horse. Also they will need to be able to recognise a horse that is being looked after from one that isn't. I would suggest that volunteers download the scoring chart from here:

http://www.bhs.org.uk/Horse_Care/Horse_Care_Advice/Publications/~/media/BHSMain/Horse%20Care/Publication%20PDFs/Condition%20Scoring.ashx

I can envisage a responsible horse owner getting a bit upset if people feed his horses or suggest that his horses are neglected.

Discodog

dvet wrote: »

Out of interest, what would a 'Controlled Area' entail?

The following is a summary - the Act is pretty long & comprehensive. The key part is that it gives the gardai a lot of powers.

If you own a horse and keep your horse in a Control area, you must obtain a horse licence, issued by your local authority. Failure to have a horse licence in a Control Area can mean an on-the-spot fine or it could mean that your horse will be seized and impounded.

In order to obtain a horse licence, you must be 16 years of age or older. You will need a separate licence for each horse you own. Each licence costs €31.74. Anyone who deliberately gives false or misleading information on an application for a horse licence is guilty of an offence. After you have applied for your licence, an inspector from your local authority will visit the premises at which your horse is to be kept. The inspector must be satisfied that proper accommodation, food and water (and if necessary, veterinary attention) will be provided for your horse. The inspector must also be sure that your horse will not be treated cruelly. Following the inspection, you will be informed whether or not you have been granted a licence.

If your local authority decides to grant you a horse licence, you must arrange to have your horse implanted with a microelectronic identification device by a vet before your licence is issued. The number of the identification device will then be included on your licence. Identification of horses in this way allows the local authority to match owners with horses if your animal strays or roams. Failure to have proper identification on your horse can result in an on-the-spot fine.

It is an offence to forge, alter or interfere with any device or identification mark on a horse. It is also an offence to bring a horse into a Control area that cannot be identified and does not have an identification device.
Your horse must be accompanied and be under your effective control or the control of another responsible person if it is outside your home or premises or the home or premises of the person in charge of it. A person authorised by the local authority or a member of the Gardai may request that you produce evidence of a horse licence. Failure to produce evidence of a licence can result in an on-the-spot fine. Failure to pay your on-the-spot-fine can result in prosecution by your local authority.

If your horse has been found wandering three times within a 12 month period, it can be seized and you will not get your animal back.
Anyone permitted to have a horse in a public place must ensure that the horse is wearing a bridle and is under adequate control. Every year, countless injuries and damage to property are caused by horses that are not adequately controlled. It is important to remember that it is illegal to allow a horse to graze, feed, stray or remain in a public place without the consent of the local authority.

Members of the Gardai and authorised persons from your local authority have the right to seize and detain your horse if they suspect that your horse is:
• a stray
• causing a nuisance
• being mistreated
• not under adequate control
• posing a threat to other people or property
• posing a threat to the health and welfare of other people and animals
• not identifiable or capable of being identified
• in need of veterinary attention and is unlikely to receive this care
• in an area/kept in an area/being ridden/driven in an area where it is not allowed by your local authority
• kept in a local authority Control Area without a licence.

Cherry Blossom

Control of horses bye laws are comming into force in Donegal in early 2011

http://www.donegalcoco.ie/NR/rdonlyres/3351A494-D96F-4C30-8519-1BE130EFFD13/0/HorseByeLaw2010.pdf

<ETA>
@Discodog - I assume the licence fee is an annual fee?

TristanPeter

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Control of horses bye laws are comming into force in Donegal in early 2011

http://www.donegalcoco.ie/NR/rdonlyres/3351A494-D96F-4C30-8519-1BE130EFFD13/0/HorseByeLaw2010.pdf

<ETA>
@Discodog - I assume the licence fee is an annual fee?

Now that a precedent has been set, we should try to get respective local councils to follow suit. Based on, (as outlined above by DD), what a controlled area allows/does not allow (and of course whether it would be enforced or not) I think reckless horse ownership would be seriously discouraged.

Discodog

A precedent was set years ago. I believe that areas in Limerick, Dublin & Laois are controlled.

They should of made it a nationwide law - & make it apply to dogs !

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

@Discodog - I assume the licence fee is an annual fee?

The license is valid for 12 months so I assume that it's €31 per year per horse.