Tipping a Learner Driver?

Lando Griffin

The other day my OH was reversing out of a car parking space.
A gentleman flashed his lights to let her out so she reversed but a car overtook the gentleman and my OH hit the back door of the other car. There was a small dent about 4" long by 2" wide on a 1996 car.
The woman in the other car, not from this fair country jumped out and started screaming at the OH
saying she is "stupid woman" and my OH is pregnant also said "you should not drive in that condition".
The woman got on the phone and rang someone and then demanded the Ohs insurance policy, name and address, before saying "this is bad damage, you pay me a lot of money to get it fixed".
My OH said she was not going to give her, her insurance details that a number plate would do, then the woman rang someone again and said "my husband come now, you pay you stupid woman"
My OH looked at her car and exclaimed, " Look, I am going to ring the Guards because you have an L plate so if you have not a full licence you are in trouble for driving without a fully insured driver, and let the Guards sort this out"
The woman then rang her husband, and said "just forget it", hopped in her car and drove off.
Was this the right thing to do and what would the guards have done?

MetzgerMeister

The guards would have penalised her for driving unsupervised. Your OH wouldn't have to fork out a cent and this other woman's insurance company would have payed out to get any damage to your OH's car repaired.

L drivers are still covered insurance-wise when not supervised.

joey54

Just because you hit a learner driver does not mean you are not liable to pay for the damage to their car. As far as I failure to provide your insurance details at an accident when asked is an offense.

By the sounds of the other persons response they may have been driving without tax or insurance.

bryaner

Delighted your other half pulled the ace card, well done to her..

cormywormy

It was the other womans fault, not your other half. So I would think the guards would be on your OH side. she was just trying to fish for money, and i would guess that she didnt have insurance, tax and no NCT. Since she left the area so fast when the guards where mentioned. She would have also got a hefty fince if the guards wanted to impose it, since she had no fully licenced driver with her. Her insurance might not even cover her since she had no driver with her. I would say just forget about it, the guards would have given her a telling off, for over taking so quick and then checked out her documents. Then your OH would have been told to use her own insurance if there was any damgae on her car.

Atomic Pineapple

Lando Griffin wrote: »

Was this the right thing to do and what would the guards have done?

The fact the person left after the Gardai were mentioned gives the impression that the person may have had something to hide. If not then its hard to say what would have been the outcome without specific details. I would assume that since your OH was reversing out that she would be responsible to make sure no cars were coming.

MetzgerMeister

draffodx wrote: »

I would assume that since your OH was reversing out that she would be responsible to make sure no cars were coming.

In fairness though, if someone lets you out, isn't it safe to assume that people won't overtake this person? Should it not have been up to this woman to check ahead and see if it was safe for her to overtake?

Tea drinker

bryaner wrote: »

Delighted your other half pulled the ace card, well done to her..

indeed.. women they are usually cute in more ways than one

mondeo

Unsupervised drivers make me sick...They should be forced to wear an 'L' plate on their forehead to remind them that they should have a qualified driver beside them at 'all' times and stop messing about the place causing hassle to other drivers.

I'm more then pleased for your OH giving that learner a good talking back! :pac:

MagicMarker

lol, did the other woman not realise that the insurance details are on the windscreen?

Tea drinker

BTW, if she's preggers you really should have more respect than to say you are tipping her!

Atomic Pineapple

einheisserschre wrote: »

In fairness though, if someone lets you out, isn't it safe to assume that people won't overtake this person?

Obviously not, it should be but this case shows us you still have to take into account stupid drivers like the women who overtook.

einheisserschre wrote: »

Should it not have been up to this woman to check ahead and see if it was safe for her to overtake?

Yes it should have been. Common sense tells us that she is at fault but technically the OP's OH could be seen to be at fault as she was coming from a static parking spot into the flow of traffic where it is up to her to make sure that it is clear for her to do so.

MarkoC

einheisserschre wrote: »

The guards would have penalised her for driving unsupervised. Your OH wouldn't have to fork out a cent and this other woman's insurance company would have payed out to get any damage to your OH's car repaired.

L drivers are still covered insurance-wise when not supervised.

You see, that is soo SICK, the law says they should get 1K minimum spot fine. And how the hell the insurance companies still insure people without driving license Yeah the L driver was on her high horse, same time a person who reverses and hits another car or similar, is always quilty.

Iompair

Probably was the L drivers fault, but when you're reversing out of a parking spot its your responsibility to make sure the way is clear, even if someone else had stopped its up to you to look out for people overtaking that person. Depends on the Guard who came to the scene really.

Always reverse in and drive out, much safer that way.

Voodoomelon

draffodx wrote: »

Obviously not, it should be but this case shows us you still have to take into account stupid drivers like the women who overtook.



Yes it should have been. Common sense tells us that she is at fault but technically the OP's OH could be seen to be at fault as she was coming from a static parking spot into the flow of traffic where it is up to her to make sure that it is clear for her to do so.

This was my first thought too. Regardless of the other drivers licence/tax/insurance status, it was the OPs other halfs fault. You don't take anything for granted just because someone lets you out.

whippet

Lando Griffin wrote: »

My OH said she was not going to give her, her insurance details that a number plate would do,

Its a long time since I did my driving test, but I am sure that when studying for the test I was told that you 'must' exchange insurance details when involved in an accident.

The fact that your other half refused this information would make her culpable to some degree.

Also, when you are reversing, pulling out of a parking space it is up to you and you alone to ensure that the way is clear. The fact that the other party was overtaking has nothing to do with it. Your OH moved from a stationary position in to a line of traffic when it wasn't clear.

Forgetting about the 'L' plates and attitude of the injured party, your OH is liable for the damage.

What should have happened is swapping of insurance details and calling the guards.

Obviously this 'lucky bag' license holders didn't have the paperwork in order and got out of there. But there is a chance that you will hear from your insurance company shortly when a claim is lodged against your other half.

Del2005

As other posters have said the OPs OH and the driver who flashed her out are responsible. The OPs OH was reversing out of a parking space into a lane of traffic and hit another car, there's no law against overtaking a car stopped in a car park, the person who flashed her out takes partial blame. When I was doing lessons I was told never to call someone out, just sit still and let them make their own decision.

Refusing to exchange insurance details after an crash is an offence, as is leaving the seen without exchanging details. So both at fault here.

OP make sure your OH reports this to the Gardaí and insurance, from reading your side of the story I think a claim may be on the way.

TwoShedsJackson

einheisserschre wrote: »

In fairness though, if someone lets you out, isn't it safe to assume that people won't overtake this person? Should it not have been up to this woman to check ahead and see if it was safe for her to overtake?

It's never safe to assume anything about people's behaviour when they're driving.

The OPs other half is technically in the wrong here, if she's reversing she has no right of way so if this other one comes around the guy who let her out it seems to me that'd be viewed as her responsibility for the incident.

Having said that I'm delighted she asked the other one about the L plates at which she said 'forget it' and drove off feckin chancer.

You get some types who think there's money to be made in these situations - my wife was driving a couple of years back and stopped on Belgard Rd where the fire station is to let out an ambulance which was coming out, sirens on etc.

She was hit from behind from a learner driver. The learner's girlfriend got out of the car and started complaining of a sore neck and back, which magically cleared up when the Garda who arrived explained that her boyfriend was at fault for hitting someone from behind. Truly a miracle cure :rolleyes:

Absurdum

Del2005 wrote: »

OP make sure your OH reports this to the Gardaí and insurance, from reading your side of the story I think a claim may be on the way.

+1 to that, report it immediately

MarkoC

If she didnt see the car coming, i doubt she sees even the pedestrians in a car park ...There for she shouldt drive at all !

Irish road rules say:

Reversing
How to reverse safely

• Check for nearby pedestrians and traffic by looking carefully all around, in front of and behind you, over both your shoulders and in your mirrors.
• Take special care where small children may be gathered, such as schools, playgrounds, residential roads, car parks or your own driveway.
• If your view is restricted, ask for help when reversing.
• Give way to other traffic or pedestrians.
• When reversing from a major road onto a minor road, wait until it is safe, reverse slowly far enough into the side road to allow you to take up the correct position on the left-hand side when rejoining the major road.
• Take extra care when reversing in darkness.
• If you are in doubt get out of your vehicle and check the area.
• You must not reverse from a minor road onto a major road as it is unsafe to do so.

the_syco

cormywormy wrote: »

It was the other womans fault, not your other half.

Technically it'd be the fault of the person who let your OH out...

As for the person who hit the OP's OH, it sounds like they were going too fast. I say this as they were unable to see potential hazards after the car. Luckily the car hit the OP's OH car,. and not a ped.

Del2005

the_syco wrote: »

Technically it'd be the fault of the person who let your OH out...

They are jointly responsible. The person who called her out is partially responsible but she's still responsible for her own vehicle and actions. My brother was knocked off his bike by someone who was called out of a junction and they where both responsible.

As for the person who hit the OP's OH, it sounds like they were going too fast. I say this as they were unable to see potential hazards after the car. Luckily the car hit the OP's OH car,. and not a ped.

We've no idea how fast the other car was going and they had right of way as they where on the road. Technically the car didn't hit the OPs OH, she hit the car!

Viper_JB

My view on this would be that if the other driver was over taking at the time would that not have put her on the wrong side of road when she was hit? Which would pretty much put everyone in the wrong here. Either way anyone who would pull off this maneuver, over taking a car stopped to let someone out - deserves to be put off the road. It's that kinda impatienc and ignorance which leads to deaths on the road.

dr.fuzzenstein

einheisserschre wrote: »

In fairness though, if someone lets you out, isn't it safe to assume that people won't overtake this person? Should it not have been up to this woman to check ahead and see if it was safe for her to overtake?

+1
The other driver overtook a car in traffic and plowed straight into the next car.
Sounds like driving without due care and attention to me.
The other party had an L plate and then drove off, should this ever come back this is going to be an important detail.
The OP didn't leave the scene of the accident the other driver did.
OP:
Write down every tiny detail you can remember about the accident, should the other party come forward again, something that is clear in your mind now might not be so clear in a few months time.
Anything you can remember might be of help later.
Should you never hear from her again (which I suspect), you can frame it and hang it up.;)

keithclancy

MarkoC wrote: »

If she didnt see the car coming, i doubt she sees even the pedestrians in a car park ...There for she shouldt drive at all !

Irish road rules say:

Reversing
How to reverse safely

• Check for nearby pedestrians and traffic by looking carefully all around, in front of and behind you, over both your shoulders and in your mirrors.
• Take special care where small children may be gathered, such as schools, playgrounds, residential roads, car parks or your own driveway.
• If your view is restricted, ask for help when reversing.
• Give way to other traffic or pedestrians.
• When reversing from a major road onto a minor road, wait until it is safe, reverse slowly far enough into the side road to allow you to take up the correct position on the left-hand side when rejoining the major road.
• Take extra care when reversing in darkness.
• If you are in doubt get out of your vehicle and check the area.
• You must not reverse from a minor road onto a major road as it is unsafe to do so.

She did get help while reversing.

Don't think anyone can here can have an opinion on who is at fault, theres not enough information.

MarkoC

keithclancy wrote: »

She did get help while reversing.

Don't think anyone can here can have an opinion on who is at fault, theres not enough information.

She didnt get enough if she hit the car, what IF she hit the kid ?
You were ALL blaiming the OPs missus here, FACT !

keithclancy

MarkoC wrote: »

She didnt get enough if she hit the car, what IF she hit the kid ?
You were ALL blaiming the OPs missus here, FACT !

Hit what kid ? .. wtf are you on about

MarkoC

keithclancy wrote: »

Hit what kid ? .. wtf are you on about

If there was a kid walking instead of the car which was hit ...
Cant find the law which says you cant take over rhe other car in a car park, can anyone point on that please ?
As plenty drivers just waiting theyr another part while parked in the middle of the road in a car park, what i should do, wait another 5-10 min until the person comes out from the shop and they drive on ?

Again, if you are reversing, you must have eyes everywhere !

WildOscar

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

It's never safe to assume anything about people's behaviour when they're driving.:rolleyes:

+1 asumptions and driving do not go together

Lando Griffin

I have attached a diagram of the crash just to clarify the situtation.
The OH didn't reverse like TJ Hooker she manovered out.
The Kind Gentleman is a witness and her number plate has been noted.
It was a slight tip no damage to OHs car and a little dent in the other car.

Henry Ford III

We clearly have a number of district court judges posting here, who can make definative calss on a case based on a mere few lines on the net. For free too!

keithclancy

Henry Ford III wrote: »

We clearly have a number of district court judges posting here, who can make definative calss on a case based on a mere few lines on the net. For free too!

Agreed ...

In a car park anyway I wouldn't 'overtake' someone because you have an extemely limited field of view since theres a car stopped on the left and cars parked on the right. You can only see straight ahead, if anything appears at the last minute then you have no chance to react.

IMO the person reversing out in this case had direction from another driver that it was safe to proceed and the person overtaking the car from behind had no indication or enough information to accertain it was safe to pass.

Still could be wrong though, not enough info as i said previously.

dr.fuzzenstein

Lando Griffin wrote: »

I have attached a diagram of the crash just to clarify the situtation.
The OH didn't reverse like TJ Hooker she manovered out.
The Kind Gentleman is a witness and her number plate has been noted.
It was a slight tip no damage to OHs car and a little dent in the other car.

Don't mind half the cranks posting here, they will post something contrary just to be obnoxious.
More trolls than in a Terry Pratchett novel round here.
The other driver was trying it on to see if your OH is a pushover and could be bullied into paying out, good she stood firm.
Even if your OH has partial responsibility, the other driver (as an unaccompanied learner) has more to worry about, hence running when the Gards where mentioned.
If you heard any more about his, I'd be surprised.

spurious

The guards do nothing about unaccompanied drivers, alas.

cormac_byrne

First off be grateful there was little damage and no one was hurt.

Your OH reversed into another car and is most likely 100% at fault.

You could be lucky and the driver of the car with L plates (who may or may not be an unaccompanied learner) may not pursue the matter.

It seems that your OH upon seeing the kind gentleman stop, then assumed it was safe to reverse out.

Unfortunately she failed to consider that there were two lanes and that the gents car was only blocking one of them.

She should not have reversed beyond the first lane without checking both directions to see if the way was clear.

This task was obviously made more difficult by the fact that the gents car would have been blocking her view. (and am guessing she wasn't really checking anyway because she thought she was in the clear once she saw the other car stop)

As for the L plated car, a more savy driver in it ought to have sussed why the gent was stopped and therefore:-

A: stayed behind him
B: stopped alongside him to let you out
C: slowed or stopped alongside him briefly, blasted their horn to warn your OH that it wasn't safe to reverse, then proceeded on their way.

The fact that they did none of these may indicate poor driving skills on their part, but I don't think that makes them culpable for your OH reversing into them.

Being optimistic she should consider this a lesson learned
(hopefully at little cost)

Never assume it is safe to proceed based on the actions of other drivers, always assume the other guy is an idiot and double check everything for yourself.

Situations like this are also a reminder that in most instances it is better to reverse into a parking space then drive out.

Reversing into traffic is always best avoided

dr.fuzzenstein

cormac_byrne wrote: »

First off be grateful there was little damage and no one was hurt.

Your OH reversed into another car and is most likely 100% at fault.

Bollocks

Zubeneschamali

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Bollocks

So, you're driving along, and someone reverses out of a parking space and hits the side of your car.

Who's at fault?

dr.fuzzenstein

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

So, you're driving along, and someone reverses out of a parking space and hits the side of your car.

Who's at fault?

You're driving along, see a car stopped to let someone out of a space, decide to boot it and clip the car that is reversing out.
Sounds like driving without care and attention to me.
RTFT

Zubeneschamali

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

RTFT

OP posted a bleedin' diagram of his OH reversing out and hitting the side of a passing car!

jimmycrackcorm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

So, you're driving along, and someone reverses out of a parking space and hits the side of your car.

Who's at fault?

The guy who stopped is somewhat culpable because by doing so, albeit helpfully, he obstructed the view of other traffic and the op's view. Had he not stopped then the other driver would have seen the ops car reversing and had time to stop.

bladespin

As far as I was ever told, you should never reverse out of a parking spot.

That said, I nearly always do but AFIK it's the responsibility of the reversing driver to make sure it's safe to do so, technically you're joining another lane.

jimmycrackcorm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

You're driving along, see a car stopped to let someone out of a space, decide to boot it and clip the car that is reversing out.
Sounds like driving without care and attention to me.
RTFT

No one suggested the driver was booting it but she should have expected that the guy stopped was there because someone was moving out. I see this all the time in busy shopping centre car parks.

Monty Burnz

bryaner wrote: »

Delighted your other half pulled the ace card, well done to her..

+1