Beggers

BraziliaNZ

George83 wrote: »

Really? I was there last week around Oxford St & I got the tube from East Finchley with a couple of stop offs on the way through - loads of beggars in the tube stations & Camden Town in particular.

I never saw a begger in a tube station, or in Camden. Once some Roma came up to me in Hyde park, that's all.

Boom__Boom

Given there will be elections coming up soon enough everyone should start bugging the various candidates about this along with other important issues.

I think that this is mainly a Dublin issue - some begging in Galway and Cork but havent experienced it to the same degree. I doubt there is much begging in the rural constituencies.

A law against begging/public disturbance should be brought in as soon as possible. Perhaps anyone found begging in public should be subject to on the spot confiscation of all monies on their person maybe subject to a minimum of say €20.

Someone mentioned about begging near ATMs being illegal. I think this was a proposal put forward by someone but not passed into law.

If people want to give to a charity they should give direct to the Dublin Simon community who will use the money properly.

A law won't solve the anti-social behaviour on it's own but at the very least it would be a step in the right direction.

John_Rambo

koHd wrote: »

people go to shopping centres to buy stuff.

I am aware of that, I just find them a bit sterile. Giant air conditioned, polished places with no pulse. I like the city, the smells, the traders, the Asian markets, the cafes, the sounds, the hundreds of different types of food, the sights, the characters, my friends, the weirdos, the pubs, the shops, everything a poxy moll can't offer!

And, if you think a Roma gypsy or a junkie is going to lord it over me in my city, they will (and one had) a rude of awakening. Whilst I have every bit of respect to any visitor in our city and I will never look for trouble or be in any way rude, I refuse to be bullied on my turf.

mikemac

Galway has it's own issues. Fairgreen Hostel is just off Eyre Sq

Sit down for a few minutes in the square and you may well get approached for money.
But it's not agressive, they just hang around drinking cans all day.

Feel sorry for them tbh.

The beggars in Dublin seem a lot more aggressive and in your face

threeleggedhors

Ask them to perform a light jig, make them earn their few bob and before you know it we'll have Riverdance daily shows on the streets of Dublin, tourists will lap it up, everyone's a winner

penana

[SIZE=+1][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"I was hungry and you gave Me to eat;
I was thirsty and you gave Me to drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
Naked and you covered Me;
Sick and you visited Me;
I was in prison and you came to Me."

"... and, God bless us, everyone."


[/FONT][/SIZE]

face1990

penana wrote: »

[SIZE=+1][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"I was hungry and you gave Me to eat;
I was thirsty and you gave Me to drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
Naked and you covered Me;
Sick and you visited Me;
I was in prison and you came to Me."

"... and, God bless us, everyone."


[/FONT][/SIZE]

I'm not sure what side of the argument you're on, but that's what the existing charities are for; to feed the hungry and clothe the naked. And by all accounts they do quite a good job of it.
At the end of the day, nobody is going to starve to death on the streets of Dublin.
While I think giving to these charities is a worthwhile cause, I am not my brother's keeper and I don't owe it to beggars to give them money.
At least with a charity you know the money is being spent properly for benefit of poorer people.

Also, they're getting free EU cheese!

Shield

penana wrote: »

[SIZE=+1][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"I was hungry and you gave Me to eat;
I was thirsty and you gave Me to drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
Naked and you covered Me;
Sick and you visited Me;
I was in prison and you came to Me."

"... and, God bless us, everyone."


[/FONT][/SIZE]

You forgot:

"...and yet I still went out and got a bad name for myself despite being given all of the above benefits for free from the Irish Government".

Zulu

penana wrote: »

[SIZE=+1][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"I was hungry and you gave Me to eat;
I was thirsty and you gave Me to drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
Naked and you covered Me;
Sick and you visited Me;
I was in prison and you came to Me."

"... and, God bless us, everyone."


[/FONT][/SIZE]

So how many Romas & Junkies are you putting up in your house this christmas? - It's what baby jeasus would have wanted at christmas...

John_Rambo

penana wrote: »

[SIZE=+1]I was hungry and you gave Me to eat....[/SIZE]

I don't think bible quotes will help the situation. Actual physical help and action is what's needed if people fee that strongly about it. As you can see people are keen to differentiate between the ones that actually need help and those that don't.

Personally, as discussed earlier I reckon a law against giving money to beggars would work. Giving food and clothing would be fine.

That would shut up the whingers that feel the beggars are genuine (some are) and it would shut up the whingers that want them "cleared off".

Your outdated book quote mentions clothing, drink, eat, shelter and company in a roundabout way. It doesn't mention cash.

Kiwi_knock

Begging used to be outlawed but in a recent enough case the law banning begging was found to be unconstitutional. So begging became legal with no constraints on how someone could beg. Earlier this year Dermot Ahern introduced the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Bill which aims to deal with the problem of begging. It makes it an offence to beg within ten feet of a ATM, business premises or a private house. A guard can now move on a beggar who is found to be intimidating and obstructing people. I think the above two are two different offences under the Bill. The maximum punishment is a €400 fine and/or a month in prison.

This Bill will most likely be passed because it has cross party support apart from Sinn Féin.

scorpioishere

maxxie wrote: »

There is a house near me full of roma people! They drives two cars, one of which is a 3 ltr merc.. I see the female members of the house begging locally a good few times!
Only a couple of weeks ago romas broke into a neighbours house who is only 3 doors down from them!

I know there is good and bad in all walks of life but they take the biscuit!

Its better they are begging than taking the social welfare like some of the irish do. Whatever the number of cars they have is none of your business. Were you there to see that the Roma broke into your neighbours house. Stop judging people and mind your own business.

face1990

scorpioishere wrote: »

Its better they are begging than taking the social welfare like some of the irish do.

The problem is that they're doing both. Best of all would be if they got proper jobs and paid taxes like everyone else.

scorpioishere wrote: »

Stop judging people and mind your own business.

It's hard to mind your own business when you're being harassed on the streets by them. Smoking areas at the front of pubs & clubs are the worst. A constant procession of them come by all night long.

tbh

If someone wants to sit in the rain and ice for hours at a time making less than the minimum wage, getting no holidays or sick pay or anything, that's totally up to them. It doesn't affect me in the slightest, I feel no guilt whatsoever walking past them and not giving them money.

Boom__Boom

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Begging used to be outlawed but in a recent enough case the law banning begging was found to be unconstitutional. So begging became legal with no constraints on how someone could beg. Earlier this year Dermot Ahern introduced the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Bill which aims to deal with the problem of begging. It makes it an offence to beg within ten feet of a ATM, business premises or a private house. A guard can now move on a beggar who is found to be intimidating and obstructing people. I think the above two are two different offences under the Bill. The maximum punishment is a €400 fine and/or a month in prison.

This Bill will most likely be passed because it has cross party support apart from Sinn Féin.

Thanks for posting this.

However it looks like this is really bad law if the ten feet thing is true as it would leave a lot of public space in Dublin that wouldn't be covered by the law - would still be legal to beg in a number of places as long as you werent actually intimidating or obstructing people - O'Connell St and Bridge, Ha'penny Bridge, Millennium Bridge, St Stephens Green. Sure there are a lot of other places as well.

Coriolanus

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Thanks for posting this.

However it looks like this is really bad law if the ten feet thing is true as it would leave a lot of public space in Dublin that wouldn't be covered by the law - would still be legal to beg in a number of places as long as you werent actually intimidating or obstructing people - O'Connell St and Bridge, Ha'penny Bridge, Millennium Bridge, St Stephens Green. Sure there are a lot of other places as well.

Yeah I thought they should have included a Gordon around areas of cultural importance.

cosmic

Boom__Boom wrote: »

However it looks like this is really bad law if the ten feet thing is true as it would leave a lot of public space in Dublin that wouldn't be covered by the law

Meh, so long as they can't beg at ATMs, that's enough to keep me happy. I find it can be incredibly intimidating sometimes. At night time, for example, when there aren't many people around, especially being a girl.

Fuinseog

scorpioishere wrote: »

Its better they are begging than taking the social welfare like some of the irish do. Whatever the number of cars they have is none of your business. Were you there to see that the Roma broke into your neighbours house. Stop judging people and mind your own business.

they get social welfare as well. they live in houses like everyone else and go to 'work at the same time as everyone else.
these people can make 100 euros a day, which is not bad.

roma are a scourge to all of Europe. at least the irish travellers have made some kind of contribution to irish culture, but these roma have no interest in making a contribution. it is little wonder that most people apart from the blinkered pc brigade, have little time for them.

evilberry

That's crazy. I work on St. Stephen's Green SC and sometimes when I try to go out for let's say walk, to not to promote smoking here, it's rather impossible to not get poked by few beggers ''change please, please''. Once I've lost my temper. I said - ''I CAN work, you CAN work. I COULD change my fckn CV just to get work I wanted and tried my best for a fckn half of a year to ensure them my experience is not a fckn fake so YOU DO CAN!''
reply? ''oh, god... what kinda people are now here, oh god... god!''
wtf?
my duplicated question is - why Gardai does NOTHING with these fckrs?
They rebuke street buskers as they disturb the night silence on Temple Bar, on Saturday and residents can't sleep but they won't do anything with these pieces of siht that lie on the floor underneath the ATM you try to withdraw your money which you ARE WORKING FOR!
Oh god. Jumpin blood pressure. Wrr!

mdebets

Fuinseog wrote: »

roma are a scourge to all of Europe. at least the irish travellers have made some kind of contribution to irish culture, but these roma have no interest in making a contribution. it is little wonder that most people apart from the blinkered pc brigade, have little time for them.

Ever heard of Charlie Chaplin, Michael Caine, Bob Hoskins, Yul Brynner or many more. So much about no contribution to cultur. Try again

arybvtcw0eolkf

evilberry wrote: »

That's crazy. I work on St. Stephen's Green SC and sometimes when I try to go out for let's say walk, to not to promote smoking here, it's rather impossible to not get poked by few beggers ''change please, please''. Once I've lost my temper. I said - ''I CAN work, you CAN work. I COULD change my fckn CV just to get work I wanted and tried my best for a fckn half of a year to ensure them my experience is not a fckn fake so YOU DO CAN!''
reply? ''oh, god... what kinda people are now here, oh god... god!''
wtf?
my duplicated question is - why Gardai does NOTHING with these fckrs?
They rebuke street buskers as they disturb the night silence on Temple Bar, on Saturday and residents can't sleep but they won't do anything with these pieces of siht that lie on the floor underneath the ATM you try to withdraw your money which you ARE WORKING FOR!
Oh god. Jumpin blood pressure. Wrr!

Tone it down.

Fuinseog

mdebets wrote: »

Ever heard of Charlie Chaplin, Michael Caine, Bob Hoskins, Yul Brynner or many more. So much about no contribution to cultur. Try again

so these people were original gypsies or just had roles, albeit hollywood ones as gypsies?

Coriolanus

Fuinseog wrote: »

so these people were original gypsies or just had roles, albeit hollywood ones as gypsies?

Well, I know the most recent romani blood in caine goes back to the 17th century. Makes about as much sense to mention him in a conversation about modern roma as it would to claim to be a hugoneot

JuliusCaesar

tbh wrote: »

If someone wants to sit in the rain and ice for hours at a time making less than the minimum wage, getting no holidays or sick pay or anything, that's totally up to them.

I remember seeing a programme where they sent two people out for four hours - one to beg, and the other to busk. Both made well over the minimum wage, and guess which actually had more money by the end of the time?


It wasn't the busker. I used to busk in my young days as a student and a couple or three hours brought in enough to keep me going for the week, which was all I wanted. So I didn't go out when the weather was bad (and anyway you get less in bad weather).

I don't mind giving to buskers, but never give to beggers. If you don't like having beggers around, do not give to them. They can get social welfare and are often offered emergency housing. In fact, what put me right off beggers was listening to two of them (both Irish) at Stephen's Green Luas, saying, yeah, they got me a B&B but I didn't go to it in the end cos I went drinking with somebody.

tbh

So you see a begged with a four year old child. The kid isn't going to school and isnt learning a 'normal' way of life. Is that child a Roma scumbag, or a victim of it's upbringing?
Same question, same child, five years old

Eight years old.

15 years old.
I'm really just wondering, at what point do you people think that child should overthrow everything it's ever learnt, get itself enough education to be able to compete with you fine people in the job Market and turn it's back on everything its ever known?

5?

8?
15?

I mean, I'm sure you all would have turned out perfectly, with or without your parents help. Look at how Christian ye all are, for example. But don't mind me, i'm just a pc do-gooder who doesn't understand the real world. I'm sure calling them sumbags etc is probably the best thing for them. Tough love and all that.

soundbyte

Madalyn Hissing Bandstand wrote: »

Tone it down.

Maybe provide a translation too?!

Degsy

tbh wrote: »

But don't mind me, i'm just a pc do-gooder who doesn't understand the real world.

At last you admit it!

Coriolanus

tbh wrote: »

So you see a begged with a four year old child. The kid isn't going to school and isnt learning a 'normal' way of life. Is that child a Roma scumbag, or a victim of it's upbringing?
Same question, same child, five years old

Eight years old.

15 years old.
I'm really just wondering, at what point do you people think that child should overthrow everything it's ever learnt, get itself enough education to be able to compete with you fine people in the job Market and turn it's back on everything its ever known?

5?

8?
15?

I mean, I'm sure you all would have turned out perfectly, with or without your parents help. Look at how Christian ye all are, for example. But don't mind me, i'm just a pc do-gooder who doesn't understand the real world. I'm sure calling them sumbags etc is probably the best thing for them. Tough love and all that.

Best arguement for forced rehoming of children and sterilization of the adults I've heard in a long time.

tbh

Nevore wrote: »

Best arguement for forced rehoming of children and sterilization of the adults I've heard in a long time.

You're not the first to see it that way.

digme

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Had a friend over from London for the weekend and took her into town on Saturday. She's been here a few times but I was almost ashamed at the amount of beggers on the streets these days. It seems about 90% of them are Roma too, so you can't really blame the economic downturn forcing unemployed people onto the streets. There are a few Roma operating that don't wear shoes while they're begging, or socks, even during this weather, and try to give the impression that they've hit rock bottom poverty. Either way it just looks nasty.
About every 30 meters or so around Dawson/St Stephen's green, Grafton St, the area around Wicklow st, we encountered beggers (again mostly Roma).
Is there no way we can clean this up? I know some people are destitute but it's no way to have our capital city really is it? Can the Garda not move them on? I know that's a short term solution but it looks REALLY bad. I've been all over the world and for a so called developed country, I really can't remember seeing as many beggers anywhere.

deport them,simple

Drummerboy2

I was at a funeral in town last week. Outside the church on the pavement was a 30-year old Roma man sitting with a cup begging as the mourners came out of the church.The pavement was like a sheet of glass, completely iced over, and people were actually falling over the beggar but he refused to move. When all the mourners dispersed to the graveyard, only then did he get up and walk off to a more lucrative begging site. Something has to be done about this organised begging. I can understand someone down on their luck but not someone using it as a business like.

JuliusCaesar

tbh wrote: »

So you see a begged with a four year old child. The kid isn't going to school and isnt learning a 'normal' way of life. Is that child a Roma scumbag, or a victim of it's upbringing?
Same question, same child, five years old. Eight years old. 15 years old.
I'm really just wondering, at what point do you people think that child should overthrow everything it's ever learnt, get itself enough education to be able to compete with you fine people in the job Market and turn it's back on everything its ever known?

There used to be a problem of Irish traveller women and children begging. What got them off the streets wasn't arresting them, but a concerted effort on the part of various agencies working in tandem: the gardai got them off the street, Barnardos and ISPCC doing huge educational work with the adults, and provision for schooling etc.

A complex social problem requires a complex answer - not a simple tabloid rant of 'get them off our streets!'

Coriolanus

tbh wrote: »

You're not the first to see it that way.

Yeah, pretty sure a certain Mr. Eichman had a similar line of reasoning.

Degsy

Nevore wrote: »

Yeah, pretty sure a certain Mr. Eichman had a similar line of reasoning.

Your mate Joe Stalin was lovely chap though.

Coriolanus

Degsy wrote: »

Your mate Joe Stalin was lovely chap though.

Well, a little more inclusive, certainly. No discrimination in the gulags!

Mike Strutter

I got asked by a dirty filthy begger did i have any spare change


I said no - i only carry hundreds

The Hill Billy

Seasons greetings to you too.

Degsy

Hill Billy wrote: »

Seasons greetings to you too.

Bah Humbug:mad:

annoyingbeast

i love most races, religions etc. etc. i truly dont mind any them, but i ****ing hate romas, it all started when i almost got mugged by a gang of them, but there always begging, they dont even try to get a job

they need to be deported, need to be,

barrackali

annoyingbeast wrote: »

i love most races, religions etc. etc. i truly dont mind any them, but i ****ing hate romas, it all started when i almost got mugged by a gang of them, but there always begging, they dont even try to get a job

they need to be deported, need to be,

The Roma run this begging scam as a far-reaching business, they are all over our streets....simply deport them.

Fuinseog

barrackali wrote: »

The Roma run this begging scam as a far-reaching business, they are all over our streets....simply deport them.

you cannot deport them. they are Eu citizens. no one else wants them around either, apart from left wing phoney liberals. this country also has very liberal laws regarding begging. its also a crime if they beg with menace.

Fuinseog

tbh wrote: »

So you see a begged with a four year old child. The kid isn't going to school and isnt learning a 'normal' way of life. Is that child a Roma scumbag, or a victim of it's upbringing?
Same question, same child, five years old

Eight years old.

15 years old.
I'm really just wondering, at what point do you people think that child should overthrow everything it's ever learnt, get itself enough education to be able to compete with you fine people in the job Market and turn it's back on everything its ever known?

5?

8?
15?

I mean, I'm sure you all would have turned out perfectly, with or without your parents help. Look at how Christian ye all are, for example. But don't mind me, i'm just a pc do-gooder who doesn't understand the real world. I'm sure calling them sumbags etc is probably the best thing for them. Tough love and all that.

education has as much value to these people as it does to inner city Dublin kids, in other words precious little.
they learn what they need from the streets and parents and have no desire to break away from any of this.

you can be Christian and you can be practical. they usually get chased out of churches because they only go in to beg or fleece the place.

Fuinseog

tbh wrote: »

You're not the first to see it that way.

yeah, the Australians did this with the abos until the 1970s, but you are probably thinking about the big ad nazis.

lods

Fuinseog wrote: »

you cannot deport them. they are Eu citizens. no one else wants them around either, apart from left wing phoney liberals. this country also has very liberal laws regarding begging. its also a crime if they beg with menace.

There is no law against begging at the moment & the new one hasn't come in yet:mad:

Coriolanus

Do they have a right to live in other EU states?

Yes, but there are two exceptions.


Firstly, the host country can deport them to their country of origin after 90 days if they do not have a job, sickness insurance or the means to support themselves (and if they have no family member in the host country capable of supporting them). This is to prevent people becoming a burden on the host country's social safety net.


Secondly, they can be deported if they present a threat to public order, public security or public health.


They must, however, have an opportunity to appeal, and must be given a month to leave, except in emergencies.

they can be deported

qwytre

I'm getting tired of all the beggers in dublin city centre now. Today I politley said "sorry" to one scumbag asking for money and he just started cursing down the street at me.

On the way back he spotted me again walking on the other side of the road and again is was more abuse from him. Of course he was all smiles and nice to the charity worker who came around to give him some food.

Later, I was targeted for more change by a grown up fella who spotted me walkin towards him. In fairness he was nice enough but is it not possible to just walk around the city any more without being hassled all the time.

I would say it is easy enough to pull in 10 euro per hour at that begging game.

cosmic

Fuinseog wrote: »

education has as much value to these people as it does to inner city Dublin kids, in other words precious little.

WTF?!!! That is a completely ridiculous generalisation. Good God!

Fuinseog

cosmic wrote: »

WTF?!!! That is a completely ridiculous generalisation. Good God!

would you care to elaborate. I am going by what i see on a daily basis and not making any judgement from some ivory tower.

cosmic

Fuinseog wrote: »

would you care to elaborate.

No I would not. If you can't see how utterly ridiculous and offensive a generalisation that is then I have no interest in commenting further.

Leaving thread...

HavingCrack

The man and woman (both native Dubs by their accents) who beg at the Luas change machine at Stephens Green piss me off no end. Your man actually demands to know where people are going and types in the destination on the machine and asks for 2 euro for his 'service'. Now I told him to go fcuk himself but he did the same to two eldery ladies and two groups of tourist families with young children who all looked scared of him. I wrote a letter to Veolia saying I'd like to be able to purchase a ticket withotu being harrassed but got no reply...Anyway, keep an eye out for these two 'beggars' who are there every single day without fail in their expensive tracksuits and runners.