Persecution in Pakistan

PDN

A shocking tale of persecution as reported by the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11930849

Carl.Gustav

That is terrible, shocking really what people are capable of.

I hope he prays and God I am sure will intercede.

monosharp

PDN wrote: »

A shocking tale of persecution as reported by the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-11930849

Surely this law cannot stand much longer ? The international community can't stand by while this goes on, or are they ?

This kind of crap doesn't happen in the larger towns/cities does it ?

I work (sort of) with a few lads from Pakistan and they are extremely devout but I can't imagine they would support something like this. I might mention it tomorrow and see what they say.

FYI, the government seem to have been willing to get rid of it circa 2000 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/751803.stm But backed down after the Muslims kicked up a fuss.

FYI, blasphemy laws http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_Pakistan#The_Blasphemy_Laws

Defiling the Quran merits imprisonment for life. Defaming Muhammad merits death with or without a fine.

Utter madness.

old_aussie

Very similar events are happening in Egypt and Iran, religious cleansing by muslims. All in the name of allah.

http://www.speroforum.com/a/43459/Egypt---Increasing-tension-between-Muslims-and-Copts-Burned-houses-battle-over-church

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Iran+outrageous+Baha+trials+thinly+disguised+religious+cleansing/3401027/story.html

Carl.Gustav

Defiling the Quran merits imprisonment for life. Defaming Muhammad merits death with or without a fine.

not to be facetious but is death with a fine worse than death without ...

monosharp

Carl.Gustav wrote: »

not to be facetious but is death with a fine worse than death without ...

Well personally I'd rather get killed for free than have to pay for it :pac:

PDN

Carl.Gustav wrote: »

not to be facetious but is death with a fine worse than death without ...

It is for your family who not only lose a loved one but are also forced to sell their home to pay the fine. Of course, in this case, selling the home would remove the only Christian family in the village - in which case the blasphemy laws can be used as a form of ethnic/religious cleansing.

Jester Minute

I'm pretty sure this lady is Catholic. The media tend to be pretty hush-hush about that though.

28064212

Jester Minute wrote: »

I'm pretty sure this lady is Catholic. The media tend to be pretty hush-hush about that though.

What are you basing that on? And if she is Catholic, what does that have to do with anything?

Disgusting story, it would be nice to think that the international community would pressure Pakistan to release her and repeal the law, but I don't see that happening any time soon

Carl.Gustav

PDN wrote: »

It is for your family who not only lose a loved one but are also forced to sell their home to pay the fine. Of course, in this case, selling the home would remove the only Christian family in the village - in which case the blasphemy laws can be used as a form of ethnic/religious cleansing.

Thats really awful, it's pretty hard times now in those parts of the world, especially afghanistan, however I think if the international community don't quit that things will get better, once the taliban are defeated and prosperity follows with it will come the truth, when television and radio and then those willing to spread Gods word arrive then the fog will lift and Gods word will spread. It may take a while but I am optimistic.

Jester Minute

28064212 wrote: »

What are you basing that on? And if she is Catholic, what does that have to do with anything?

Disgusting story, it would be nice to think that the international community would pressure Pakistan to release her and repeal the law, but I don't see that happening any time soon

Most of the Christians there are Catholic.

The MSM has a bias against reporting about persecuted Catholics. It prefers to refer to them as simply Christian. This would be innocent enough, if it weren't for the MSM's blatant anti-Catholicism.

An example would be the Chaldean Catholics that were recently persecuted in Iraq. They are Catholics, but the BBC reported that they were Christians. SKY News at least had the honesty to refer to them as Catholic. Yes, they are Christians, but in denying them the name Catholic, the media is glossing over persecution of Catholics because the media is anti-Catholic.

Here's a related story. This fella is a Catholic in Pakistan:
http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/otc.cfm?id=742

Seaneh

sometimes I really do think that some catholics hold their church's traditions and labels as more important than what Christianity actually is.

Jester, seriously, build a bridge and get over it.
She IS a Christian, labelling her beyond that is stupidity.

Jester Minute

Seaneh wrote: »

sometimes I really do think that some catholics hold their church's traditions and labels as more important than what Christianity actually is.

Jester, seriously, build a bridge and get over it.
She IS a Christian, labelling her beyond that is stupidity.

Let's put it like this: if they've done something wrong, they're Catholic. If they're being persecuted, they're 'Christian'. The media hates the Catholic Church, and the Catholics with their ear on the ground and their eye on reality will understand and agree with what I'm sayin'.

PDN

Jester Minute wrote: »

Most of the Christians there are Catholic.

The MSM has a bias against reporting about persecuted Catholics. It prefers to refer to them as simply Christian. This would be innocent enough, if it weren't for the MSM's blatant anti-Catholicism.

An example would be the Chaldean Catholics that were recently persecuted in Iraq. They are Catholics, but the BBC reported that they were Christians. SKY News at least had the honesty to refer to them as Catholic. Yes, they are Christians, but in denying them the name Catholic, the media is glossing over persecution of Catholics because the media is anti-Catholic.

Actually, as if it really matters in this case, Catholics comprise just under half of the Christians in Pakistan: http://www.nationmaster.com/country/pk-pakistan/rel-religion

But, Jester Minute, I think you should reflect on how your continual sectarian advocacy is coming across here. You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel in trying to make an issue of whether this woman is a Catholic or not.

I have no idea of Asia Bibi's denominational affiliation - because neither her family nor any of those advocacy groups fighting for her freedom have mentioned it. In cases like this it is more effective for different denominations to bury their differences and unite to try to save this woman's life.

Interestingly enough, the Pope, in calling for her freedom, made no mention of her being a Catholic, but simply referred to her Christianity - http://visnews-en.blogspot.com/2010/11/papal-appeal-for-asia-bibi.html

So, Jester Minute, according to your reasoning, the Pope and the Holy See Press Office must be glossing over her Catholicism because they are part of the MSM and are blatantly anti-Catholic? Do you see where sectarianism gets you?

Jester Minute

PDN wrote: »

Actually, as if it really matters in this case, Catholics comprise just under half of the Christians in Pakistan: http://www.nationmaster.com/country/pk-pakistan/rel-religion

But, Jester Minute, I think you should reflect on how your continual sectarian advocacy is coming across here. You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel in trying to make an issue of whether this woman is a Catholic or not.

I have no idea of Asia Bibi's denominational affiliation - because neither her family nor any of those advocacy groups fighting for her freedom have mentioned it. In cases like this it is more effective for different denominations to bury their differences and unite to try to save this woman's life.

Interestingly enough, the Pope, in calling for her freedom, made no mention of her being a Catholic, but simply referred to her Christianity - http://visnews-en.blogspot.com/2010/11/papal-appeal-for-asia-bibi.html

So, Jester Minute, according to your reasoning, the Pope and the Holy See Press Office must be glossing over her Catholicism because they are part of the MSM and are blatantly anti-Catholic? Do you see where sectarianism gets you?

Yeah that's all well and good. But my point still stands about the BBC and most of the MSM. Case in point being the Chaldean Catholics a few weeks ago.

JimiTime

Jester Minute wrote: »

Yeah that's all well and good. But my point still stands about the BBC and most of the MSM. Case in point being the Chaldean Catholics a few weeks ago.

In the context of this thread I find the point you made, coming across a little tasteless. No offence, you may not have meant it in such a way, but this thread is probably not the place to raise your particular point.

Jester Minute

JimiTime wrote: »

In the context of this thread I find the point you made, coming across a little tasteless. No offence, you may not have meant it in such a way, but this thread is probably not the place to raise your particular point.

Probably.

But still the point is there. Perhaps I shall put it away and bring it out at a more opportune time. :cool:

JimiTime

the link below is from an online radio show by Dr. Michael Brown. This particular episode is from India where he shares his experience of the persecuted Christians there. Be warned, it is heart wrenching.


http://lineoffireradio.askdrbrown.org/2010/12/06/washing-the-feet-of-a-martyrs-widow-in-india-live-from-mumbai/

On a side note, Check out Dr. Michael Browns resources. Excellent stuff IMO. His radio show is excellent, and from first hand experience he actually answers the questions you e-mail in:eek:

homer911

Maybe its time for everyone to put their money where their mouth is and do something positive, like support our local Church in Chains organisation which campaigns for all persecuted Christians

I've known the guy who runs this for years and he gets by on a pittance..

Reference to the story on their site here and what they are doing about it..

http://www.churchinchains.ie/node/375

JimiTime

homer911 wrote: »

Maybe its time for everyone to put their money where their mouth is and do something positive

Why presume we aren't?

Jester Minute

JimiTime wrote: »

Why presume we aren't?

For anyone who wants to help the Catholic Church, Aid to the Church in Need works directly under the Holy See.

You know that your money is going to Christians in the most need of help and the charity is totally faithful to Holy Church.

Irish donors: http://www.acnirl.org/

UK donors: http://www.acnuk.org/

Jester Minute

From Fr Z:

Pray, please, for our brother Christian Youcef, sentenced to be executed in Iran for converting to Christianity from the religion of peace.

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2010/12/iran-christian-convert-to-be-executed/

Fanny Cradock

BTW, they were talking about this case on the radio show Unbelievable today.

homer911

For anyone who missed it, Church in Chains was the subject of the St. Stephen's Day TV Service on RTE
http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1087977

Very appropriate for the day that was in it. About 9 minutes in theres a great song called "Stephen's Song" by a group called Mr Jag - very good!

A great eye opener to Christian oppression around the world with interviews and background stories

PDN

homer911 wrote: »

A great eye opener to Christian oppression around the world with interviews and background stories

I presume by 'Christian oppression' you're referring to oppression committed against Christians?

On boards.ie when people talk about Christian oppression it usually transpires that they went to a rugby match where people sang a Christmas Carol or some other such atrocity.

Fanny Cradock

PDN wrote: »

On boards.ie when people talk about Christian oppression it usually transpires that they went to a rugby match where people sang a Christmas Carol or some other such atrocity.

The horror! Still, that was a fun thread.

homer911

PDN wrote: »

I presume by 'Christian oppression' you're referring to oppression committed against Christians?

On boards.ie when people talk about Christian oppression it usually transpires that they went to a rugby match where people sang a Christmas Carol or some other such atrocity.

Glad to see you are still in festive form PDN - but it is a matter of life and death for many Christians, as the broadcast clearly showed...

...and what a thorn in the flesh CiC is to many overseas ambassadors to Ireland!

wolfsbane

Carl.Gustav wrote: »

Thats really awful, it's pretty hard times now in those parts of the world, especially afghanistan, however I think if the international community don't quit that things will get better, once the taliban are defeated and prosperity follows with it will come the truth, when television and radio and then those willing to spread Gods word arrive then the fog will lift and Gods word will spread. It may take a while but I am optimistic.

That's a mighty big if. Leaving aside any provocation caused to Muslim nations by Western interventions, the problem remains that Islam in its basic doctrine aims at world domination by all means, including force. The 'peaceful' time for Islam is when it is either too weak to wage a war of conquest against the infidel, or when it has conquered them and forced their conversion.

That will always be the problem for 'moderate' Muslims - they do not represent authentic Islam. They are in denial about their religion. So if they want to be authentically secular/democratic/pluralist, they will have to accept Islam as a false/outdated religion. And where religion has been a big part of one's culture, it takes a big crisis to cause that change.
_________________________________________________________________
John 16:1 “These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble. 2 They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. 3 And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me.

homer911

The saga, sadly, continues...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12111831