Why do people buy branded milk?

Corsendonk

Check the EC code on the milk, it will tell you if its irish or UK. Surprise surprise you will notice the supermarket own brand has the same code in the majority of cases as the Dunnes/Tesco/Superquinn in most parts of the country so your buying the same milk but paying for the pleasure of drinking a branded pack.

dvet

Corsendonk wrote: »

Check the EC code on the milk, it will tell you if its irish or UK.

That's a great tip, I'm going to do that from now on. Thanks!

Standman

I thought they only branded the cows. Branding the milk would seem to me to be going a bit far, how would that even work?

Keith186

Kotek Besar wrote: »

I mean, why buy Avonmore or Snowcream when Tesco or Dunnes milk is cheaper and also comes from a cow's nipple?

Don't have a cow, man.

Cantona's Collars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-OwMoAsP38

ScumLord

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

I like to pay a tiny bit more (what is it like 30c on a litre?) to our dairy farmers for their high quality product. Large supermarkets bully small farmers into basically selling their produce at a loss.

I wonder which brand of milk pays the most to the farmers. Companies should make that a selling point of their milk.

dvet

ScumLord wrote: »

I wonder which brand of milk pays the most to the farmers. Companies should make that a selling point of their milk.

Yeah, I would love to do that if there was a way of doing it!
But most farmers get paid pretty much the same thing (all of the co-ops are competing with each other for milk supply, so the prices they offer farmers are usually nearly identical).
Most of the variation in prices on the shelf are usually put on by the supermarkets themselves (they sell their own brands at less of a markup, and they sell Avonmore/Dairygold etc at a higher markup). So if you buy more expensive milk, you're really just giving the supermarket another 20 or 30c!

So really I suppose, the only way we can support Irish farmers better is to buy Irish milk rather than English, like Corsendunk was saying.

Mars Bar

There's definitely a difference. Dawn milk is disgusting, it just tastes like un-whipped cream. Supervalu full fat is quite nice but the Avonmore slimline milk is lovely!

pirelli

Canis Lupus wrote: »

It's called marketing OP. If the product you sell is virtually identically to your competitors you need to put a different slant on it and hopeidiots fall for it.

The 'idiots' that buy Tesco or that buy irish?


You are all aware of the cruelty and horror Large Uk dairys put dairy cows through. The images speak for themselves. Thin skeletal cows that are forced into labour to produce milk only to have the calf slaughtered on birth. They survive in horrible conditions in cramped conditions usually in poor health.

In ireland we have a much more acceptable dairy system. There is no comparison, im not saying the irishy are any better or less greedy but we just have a better Animal welfare system due to the our traditonal way of farming and inheritance.. if you continue to buy tesco milk the one day we might see similar practices here,

No one in their right mind should buy Tesco milk. A 2 litre of avonmore is sufficently cheap mor even better Dunnes Milk. Honestly buying Tesco milk is teh cruelst act any irish person coudl ever do. I shop in tesco but would never buy their dairy products, They are not fit to rear cattle.


http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DSr-EyIaXAD4%26playnext%3D1%26list%3DPLCD2FC014A839C9E8%26index%3D21

walshb

Kotek Besar wrote: »

I mean, why buy Avonmore or Snowcream when Tesco or Dunnes milk is cheaper and also comes from a cow's nipple?

I am particular with what I buy. Once it's full fat, and Premier or Avonmore, I will buy it. Now, I do believe Premier and Avonmore are the one company, but the two litre cartons of each are different. Premier is colder and less creamy from my tasting.

I cannot stand the taste of mile from thos ****ing transparent cartons. You know the ones wher you can see the milk inside> Seriously, the taste from these is rank.

Also, skimmed, low fat and all that bollox is rank.

Oh, the low fat and whole Super milk is just grand.

Mars Bar

walshb wrote: »

Also, skimmed, low fat and all that bollox is rank.

Oh, the low fat and whole Super milk is just grand.

Dunjohn

Somehow the aul Mum managed to switch the whole family over to low fat when I was a teenager. I remember holding out to the last but at some point she won. Now I can't really drink regular milk, it tastes too thick.

Drew the line at skim, though. Stuff's blue.

As for brand vs. store, I get whatever's cheapest. I'll avoid Avonmore entirely until they stop with those obnixious Super Milk radio ads.

caroline1111

I'm disgusted at some of the attitudes here towards dairy farmers. Many of them work unreal hours, eg from 6.30am untill 8pm and are just breaking even, and don't forget often any profit thats earned has to be 'shared' between eg father and son.
Agriculture is now one of the only sources of income for this country with the current economic climate and these exports are invaluable.
Its not the farmers that get the higher price for the branded products it the dairy companies and supermarkets.
Its actually ridiculous that milk is pretty much cheaper than water considering all the money and work that has to be put into producing it.
Buy Irish.

rainbowtrout

pirelli wrote: »

The 'idiots' that buy Tesco or that buy irish?


You are all aware of the cruelty and horror Large Uk dairys put dairy cows through. The images speak for themselves. Thin skeletal cows that are forced into labour to produce milk only to have the calf slaughtered poor health.
on birth. They survive in horrible conditions in cramped conditions usually in
In ireland we have a much more acceptable dairy system. There is no comparison, im not saying the irishy are any better or less greedy but we just have a better Animal welfare system due to the our traditonal way of farming and inheritance.. if you continue to buy tesco milk the one day we might see similar practices here,

No one in their right mind should buy Tesco milk. A 2 litre of avonmore is sufficently cheap mor even better Dunnes Milk. Honestly buying Tesco milk is teh cruelst act any irish person coudl ever do. I shop in tesco but would never buy their dairy products, They are not fit to rear cattle.


http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DSr-EyIaXAD4%26playnext%3D1%26list%3DPLCD2FC014A839C9E8%26index%3D21

And that video claims that the best cows are producing 120 litres of milk a day!!! I'm sure any dairy farmers on here might have something to say about that!

dvet

pirelli wrote: »

You are all aware of the cruelty and horror Large Uk dairys put dairy cows through. The images speak for themselves. Thin skeletal cows that are forced into labour to produce milk only to have the calf slaughtered on birth. They survive in horrible conditions in cramped conditions usually in poor health.

In ireland we have a much more acceptable dairy system. There is no comparison, im not saying the irishy are any better or less greedy but we just have a better Animal welfare system due to the our traditonal way of farming and inheritance.. if you continue to buy tesco milk the one day we might see similar practices here,

I'm not trying to diss you but some of what you've said here is very misguided. (polite way of saying totally wrong!) Dairy farming in the UK is on the whole very similar to in Ireland, and they're both fairly welfare friendly.

Dairy cows might look underweight to the untrained eye because they have quite an angular, bony frame - but actually that's their natural healthy weight. Being overweight causes a whole range of serious health problems for cows, and in fact is much more dangerous for them even than being underweight. It's linked to an icreased rate of difficult calvings, retained afterbirth, ketosis, LDA's, and milk fever to name but a few. Nutrition is a hugely important aspect of their husbandry, probably more so than any other type of farm animal.

Also, calves are not killed after birth. They are weaned from the cows in the first day or so after birth and fed on left over milk or milk replacer instead of suckling directly from the cow. A lot of the female calves are kept on as the next generation of dairy cows, and the males and the rest of the females are kept until they're 2 years old when they're sold for beef. (The only exception is for jersey calves, but these are very rarely kept here - slightly more jersey farms in england but still the vast minority.)

But as for what you say in support of irish milk, I agree with you that it's good to support Irish farmers... I'd always support local produce if possible!

dvet

Actually, to continue, I would say that dairy cows are some of the best looked after farm animals of all. Anyone who knows about farming would know that. The cows wouldn't be able to work as hard as they do for the farmers without being looked after properly, and every farmer knows that. Most farmers know most of their individual animals apart from each other and are often very concerned when they get sick - I've seen farmers cover their cows in blankets and give them buckets of tea when they get sick! Obviously not all cows get that kind of treatment but for the most part farmers have a great respect for their animals and their land, and work very hard to look after their dairy cows.

I'm proud of Irish farmers.

Einhard

Because it's reassuringly expensive.

auditek923

minikin wrote: »

If you want to buy cheap 'own brand' milk there's nothing wrong with that... all the dairy farmers in the UK will love you for it!

Buy Irish folks or else stop whinging that the economy is down the toilet.

all the cheap brands come from a untested milk pool. basically 9 out of ten farmers could be treating there cattle with the right injections etc but it only takes the 1 to harm the other 9s milk. .... bit drunk here.......but avonmore milk is tested 17 times from the cow to the carton along production. and its irish. buy lidl or other cheap brands and your money is leaving the counrty. support your own. buy irish, buy a ndc, national dairy council, branded milk please.

Ghandee

Stench Blossoms wrote: »

I can taste the difference in milk between brands.

whose tastes best, Jo's or Russels?

OPENROAD

auditek923 wrote: »

all the cheap brands come from a untested milk pool. basically 9 out of ten farmers could be treating there cattle with the right injections etc but it only takes the 1 to harm the other 9s milk. .... bit drunk here.......but avonmore milk is tested 17 times from the cow to the carton along production. and its irish. buy lidl or other cheap brands and your money is leaving the counrty. support your own. buy irish, buy a ndc, national dairy council, branded milk please.

Such as Tesco?

RMD

pirelli wrote: »

The 'idiots' that buy Tesco or that buy irish?


You are all aware of the cruelty and horror Large Uk dairys put dairy cows through. The images speak for themselves. Thin skeletal cows that are forced into labour to produce milk only to have the calf slaughtered on birth. They survive in horrible conditions in cramped conditions usually in poor health.

I'm not trying to make you look stupid, I'm just going to give you some basic information about dairy cattle.

1) Cows need to go into labour to produce milk, otherwise they don't. Afterwhich they only produce it for about 270 days so they need to go into labour annually in essence.

2) Although dairy breeds do look very skinny, that's because you're comparing them to well built beef breeds. Dairy breeds have a naturally skinny and boney body, if it looks close in build to a beef breed and is a pure bred dairy, then it's actually less healthy than the "skinny boney" dairy cattle you're thinking of.

3) Calves aren't slaughtered at birth, they're kept either as replacements for the dairy producing cattle or they're used for beef, that's why nowadays farmers use a totally different selection of semen samples for AI in the herd. Some of the calves go into dairy, the others go into beef. Killing calves just doesn't happen, it's not economically sound for the farmer.

Now I've only experience of Irish dairy farms, but some of the claims in that movie you posted are just idiotic. Cramped may be possible but poor health isn't. A animal in poor health is a liability to a farmer as it wont produce enough milk to be a profit and poses a health risk to the rest of the herd. A farmer wouldn't bring a pregnant cow to a market close to the day of birth, it poses huge health problems to the mother in question and the new herd if purchased, it can easily contract a disease in unclean conditions during birth and then could pass it onto the new herd.

JayMul

If you want to save money you should mix your milk with water, I hear it tastes lovely & you will save a fortune.

Corsendonk

pirelli wrote: »

The 'idiots' that buy Tesco or that buy irish?


You are all aware of the cruelty and horror Large Uk dairys put dairy cows through. The images speak for themselves. Thin skeletal cows that are forced into labour to produce milk only to have the calf slaughtered on birth. They survive in horrible conditions in cramped conditions usually in poor health.

In ireland we have a much more acceptable dairy system. There is no comparison, im not saying the irishy are any better or less greedy but we just have a better Animal welfare system due to the our traditonal way of farming and inheritance.. if you continue to buy tesco milk the one day we might see similar practices here,

No one in their right mind should buy Tesco milk. A 2 litre of avonmore is sufficently cheap mor even better Dunnes Milk. Honestly buying Tesco milk is teh cruelst act any irish person coudl ever do. I shop in tesco but would never buy their dairy products, They are not fit to rear cattle.


http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DSr-EyIaXAD4%26playnext%3D1%26list%3DPLCD2FC014A839C9E8%26index%3D21

You are aware that Tesco ROI stores buy there Tesco branded milk from the Kerry Group and Glanbia? So you want us to stop buying Irish to buy the more expensive and exact same milk in the dairies own brand because its Irish too? I don't like the way Tesco does business but your off your head with your claims and haven't a clue about the irish dairy industry.

sandmanporto

Kotek Besar wrote: »

I mean, why buy Avonmore or Snowcream when Tesco or Dunnes milk is cheaper and also comes from a cow's nipple?

I have to say, when you buy cheaper milk there is a difference in taste. i buy wexford millk when at home because im supporting my own countys brand, i get a sense of pride about it.. i dont know where the milk in lidl or tescos comes from(its not from wexford??)

pirelli

dvet wrote: »

I'm not trying to diss you but some of what you've said here is very misguided. (polite way of saying totally wrong!) Dairy farming in the UK is on the whole very similar to in Ireland, and they're both fairly welfare friendly.

Also, calves are not killed after birth.

I was referring to large UK dairy factories and not moderate sized famers. Also calves are killed. There is hard evidence of calves being killed so why you would argue they are not killed might mean we are discussing two different methods of dairy farming.

Here are some basic facts for everyone to see and judge. It does not mean that different posters don't have a clue but it is clear we are discussing different types of farming. Obviously Tesco should supply organic milk at a price similar to irish milk brands sell at but then no one would buy tesco would they. People are also an obstacle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-MsKrw-dIQ

dvet wrote: »

.

I'm proud of Irish farmers.

So what!

RMD wrote: »

I'm not trying to make you look stupid, I'm just going to give you some basic information about dairy cattle.

Calves are killed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfYV7zCNTEc

You can be an expert in your own right but that doesn't mean that a UK dairy will work along the expertise you practise. I think it's naive to think everything that happens at one dairy farm is practised universally. The fact remains that the worst problems occour in the mega UK dairy factories that are large suppliers to Tesco.

Corsendonk wrote: »

You are aware that Tesco ROI stores buy there Tesco branded milk from the Kerry Group and Glanbia? So you want us to stop buying Irish to buy the more expensive and exact same milk in the dairies own brand because its Irish too? I don't like the way Tesco does business but your off your head with your claims and haven't a clue about the irish dairy industry.

Very recently they have sourced fresh milk from irish Dairies. However we are discussing brands and Tesco is a large consumer of milk from the cheapest dairies which were obviously the Dairy factiories i was pointing out.

Then your happy to buy a brand of milk that contributes to these dairy factories rather than an organic branded Milk or Irish brand but i am not happy to contribute to UK dairy factories and wouldn't touch a brand of milk that was associated with that Dairy culture.

If Tesco buy from these Uk dairy factories is it not a matter of time before similar practises happen here.

listermint

So in summation to the thread, We can discern that many posters here simply do not have operational tastebuds.

maybe yer all smokers :eek:

Corsendonk

pirelli wrote: »

Very recently they have sourced fresh milk from irish Dairies. However we are discussing brands and Tesco is a large consumer of milk from the cheapest dairies which were obviously the Dairy factiories i was pointing out.

Then your happy to buy a brand of milk that contributes to these dairy factories rather than an organic branded Milk or Irish brand but i am not happy to contribute to UK dairy factories and wouldn't touch a brand of milk that was associated with that Dairy culture.

If Tesco buy from these Uk dairy factories is it not a matter of time before similar practises happen here.

You seem to be very confused. When have Tesco very recently sourced fresh milk from Irish Dairies? Since they have traded in ROI perhaps?

So your saying that we should stop buying Tesco branded milk and buy the same milk in Avonmore/golden vale brand at a higher price even do its from the exact same farms with the same welfare standards? Have you shares in glanbia/kerry or something?

Or your other alternative is to buy Organic milk from Irish organic dairies such as Glenisk? You do know who supplies Tesco ROI with its Tesco own brand organic milk don't you? I suspect your trolling.

gsxr1

Them you tube vids are quite shocking .

Would make one think twice about eating meat.

I guess someone has to do it. I could not.

wonderfulname

Japer wrote: »

rubbish

The dept of agriculture had a part of their website showing what the EC/ govt paid to every farmer in the country last year. It named them all. I looked up the people I knew + was amazed to see them getting 35 and 40 grand in handouts.

Buy the cheapest milk you can , it all comes from the same cows. Tesco + Dunnes are the same price as lidl. Other brands are a rip off. Buy tesco or Dunnes rather than lidl as at least the profit is not going to eastern european checkout operators + german owners.

I'm sorry this is pure bull, do you realise how much it costs to run a dairy farm? The figures you read were last years, last year it COST a farmer 7c per L to produce, sounds small until you start multiplying, milk is collected about 3 days a week so a farmer with a 2K tank was losing e420 a week, that's over 21k a year! So a farmer getting up to 40k in subsidies was earning under 20k to physically labour from 5am to 7pm+. Those subsidies allow farmers and their families to survive whilst producing raw materials that down the line provide further jobs and products.

I cannot stand people begrudging farmers, you try living that lifestyle.

But back on topic, when I'm home I buy the local Co-ops milk, I can't get it in Dublin so I just make sure to buy Irish - it doesn't taste the same but its miles better than supermarket own brand, and at least I'm supporting our own economy and not Britains, and at least you can guarantee the quality of your milk, the regulations surrounding the industry in this country are insanely strict.

wonderfulname

gsxr1 wrote: »

Them you tube vids are quite shocking .

Would make one think twice about eating meat.

I guess someone has to do it. I could not.

What you see in those videos is not practised in the Irish dairy industry, it is Illegal and can result in the removal of your herd.

Also, Irish cattle spend half the year outdoors, and are brought in when the conditions are too poor for them. This situation will not change as it is the cheapest way to raise cattle in Ireland.

Don't believe bullsh1t put out by idiotic, biased organisations.

Carl Sagan

After drinking 4-5 litres a day for around a year, I've com to the conclusion that Avonmore is the nicest. There is a difference in taste, and no, I'm not an idiot because I think it tastes better.

dvet

pirelli wrote: »

I was referring to large UK dairy factories and not moderate sized famers. Also calves are killed. There is hard evidence of calves being killed...
<etc...
video 1 & video 2>

Oh dear. I have so much to say to your post. I normally don't watch those videos as I have a very slow internet connection, but I'm glad I did watch them, because I need to tell you that you are being fed some ridiculous propaganda here..and also spreading it around!! There is so many things wrong with those 2 videos, I'm going to outline to exactly what. This is going to take me ages but people need to know where their food and milk is coming from and why it's nothing like the BS in these videos!

The reason I know the real, actual, honest to god truth? (1) I was brought up in the countryside surrounded by farms and farming families. (2) I am a vet, so I spend most of my day visiting farms all over the country. I have also spent time in meat factories. (3) I have several friends who are vets in the UK - and dairy farming there is pretty much the same as here, grass based, average farm size just over 100 cows (that is not large at all)... I actually wish I could bring you around to a couple of farms to show you what goes on.

The reason i care enough to write this ridiculously long post? Because I care (a lot!) about animal welfare and hate when people spread myths about how animals are raised. I would never support an industry that was cruel to animals. I'm a vet for crying out loud! Also, most of the farmers I know are genuinely nice people, decent, down to earth, and care about their animals. Do you think farmers are all sadist animal haters or something? That's just so untrue it's sad.

So here's whats wrong with those videos:

---

VIDEO 1:
Sensationalist music. Talking about how cows are able to feel pain and make friends with each other. Nobody is disputing that? Why is it relevant?

The video states that AI (artificial insemination) is painful for cows. AI is not painful. It involves a pipette being <gently> put into the right place to deposit some semen. It is done when the cows are in season and so the uterus is relaxed and open. It is NOT painful! And it has many great advantages, for both the cow and the farmer (smaller calf size-> easier calvings, safety aspect of not having bull on farm, allows careful selection of healthiest traits to breed into the next generation of calves etc). Same goes for embryo transfer, which anyway is very rarely practised.

The video then states that males are slaughtered at birth. Wrong again. As stated several times above, that doesn't make economic sense for the farmer. The calves are almost always raised for beef. As I said in my post above, the only exception is for jersey calves, which are kept in such tiny numbers as to be almost irrelevant.

The video then says that cows are chained by the neck all day and that they all live inside all year round. Wrong. The vast majority of dairy production is grass based, so the cows live outside in summer and autumn and when the weather gets bad in winter they are brought to live inside. When they're brought inside they live in groups in big open sheds, with cubicles to lie down in.

The video then says cows are made into cannibals by being fed other animal parts. It is completely illegal to feed cows parts from other animals!!! This is a known causing factor of BSE and is NOT ALLOWED under any circumstances.

It then says cows are kept in a malnourished state. Wrong. Again, cows naturally look angular and bony - this is their anatomical shape. Please see my above post...

Then it says that milking is horrible painful for cows. Wrong. Most cows actually enjoy being milked. They know when they're due to be milked every day and are normally lined up at the field gate when the farmer comes to bring them in! They like to get their udders emptied, plus, they know they will get fed nuts when they go into the parlour and they love it. It is not painful!

Then it says cows are milked 365 days a year. Actually most cows are milked for around 280 days - so again - wrong.

Then it says cows are given growth hormones which are harmful to human health. Again - wrong! Growth hormone use is completely illegal, strictly policed, it is NEVER given.

Then it says cows routinely get osteoporosis, and that 50% of cows have mastitis. Lie again! Seriously.... This is so ridiculous I don't know where to begin.

Then it says that blood and pus regularly gets into milk. Wrong again (sigh). It is totally illegal for milk from cows with infected udders to get into the milk chain. If a cow has any problems with her milk, the milk is not put into normal circulation, it is kept seperate from all the other milk and dumped. There are legal guidelines as to the quality if milk and if a farmer does not follow these he faces heavy fines and the creamery may refuse to collect milk from him again. Also, pasterurisation and strict hygiene measures are in place to ensure that all milk is totally clean and safe for human consumption. The idea that milk would be allowed to be sold with blood and pus in it is ridiculous!! Use your common sense, or else look it up from an actual reputable source.


Some other points that are wrong: That the size of cows udders causes them to be lame. That they are electrically prodded to get them to urinate/defecate in the right place!! That cows only live for 3 years. That cows are purposely sent to the factory when pregnant (if you knew about farming, if any cows are sent to the factory it is almost always because they can't get pregnant). That cows are dragged onto/off trailers to go to the factory - factories don't accept animals that aren't well enough to walk onto and off of the trailer on their own - it's illegal. Again, the lie that calves are routinely slaughtered at birth. Tail docking isn't routinely done here either. Cows don't get branded. They are NOT FED excerement, sawdust or animal parts!!! (again, BSE risk, also, what possible nutritional value would be in that diet? They are routinely fed silage/haylage, barley, soyameal etc etc)

And then it just shows some pointless 'scary' music while showing clips of people eating burgers. Honestly!

The last several minutes go on about beef production, which isn't very relevant at all, but if you want to reaad the truth about how that happens as well (I suggest you do as it mught make you feel better about yourself and about mankind in general....) then see this post, and some of the ones that follow it.

Finally it says that the key to living in harmony with these animals, so that they can have long and fulfilling lives, is to become vegetarian. I'm sorry but if everybody becomes vegetarian than you can enjoy seeing this lovely species of animals become extinct.


VIDEO 2: more of the same really! I don't think I need to reiteerate...


So can I ask you from one animal lover to another to trust me on this? It's not your fault if you don't know the facts but these genuinely are the facts. Please feel free to ask more questions if I can clarify anything for you. And keep supporting Irish farmers - they deserve your support.

pirelli

dvet wrote: »

Oh dear. I have so much to say to your post. I normally don't watch those videos as I have a very slow internet connection, but I'm glad I did watch them, because I need to tell you that you are being fed some ridiculous propaganda here..and also spreading it around!! There is so many things wrong with those 2 videos, I'm going to outline to exactly what. This is going to take me ages but people need to know where their food and milk is coming from and why it's nothing like the BS in these videos!

The reason I know the real, actual, honest to god truth? (1) I was brought up in the countryside surrounded by farms and farming families. (2) I am a vet, so I spend most of my day visiting farms all over the country. I have also spent time in meat factories. (3) I have several friends who are vets in the UK - and dairy farming there is pretty much the same as here, grass based, average farm size just over 100 cows (that is not large at all)... I actually wish I could bring you around to a couple of farms to show you what goes on.

The reason i care enough to write this ridiculously long post? Because I care (a lot!) about animal welfare and hate when people spread myths about how animals are raised. I would never support an industry that was cruel to animals. I'm a vet for crying out loud! Also, most of the farmers I know are genuinely nice people, decent, down to earth, and care about their animals. Do you think farmers are all sadist animal haters or something? That's just so untrue it's sad.

So here's whats wrong with those videos:

---

VIDEO 1:
Sensationalist music. Talking about how cows are able to feel pain and make friends with each other. Nobody is disputing that? Why is it relevant?

The video states that AI (artificial insemination) is painful for cows. AI is not painful. It involves a pipette being <gently> put into the right place to deposit some semen. It is done when the cows are in season and so the uterus is relaxed and open. It is NOT painful! And it has many great advantages, for both the cow and the farmer (smaller calf size-> easier calvings, safety aspect of not having bull on farm, allows careful selection of healthiest traits to breed into the next generation of calves etc). Same goes for embryo transfer, which anyway is very rarely practised.

The video then states that males are slaughtered at birth. Wrong again. As stated several times above, that doesn't make economic sense for the farmer. The calves are almost always raised for beef. As I said in my post above, the only exception is for jersey calves, which are kept in such tiny numbers as to be almost irrelevant.

The video then says that cows are chained by the neck all day and that they all live inside all year round. Wrong. The vast majority of dairy production is grass based, so the cows live outside in summer and autumn and when the weather gets bad in winter they are brought to live inside. When they're brought inside they live in groups in big open sheds, with cubicles to lie down in.

The video then says cows are made into cannibals by being fed other animal parts. It is completely illegal to feed cows parts from other animals!!! This is a known causing factor of BSE and is NOT ALLOWED under any circumstances.

It then says cows are kept in a malnourished state. Wrong. Again, cows naturally look angular and bony - this is their anatomical shape. Please see my above post...

Then it says that milking is horrible painful for cows. Wrong. Most cows actually enjoy being milked. They know when they're due to be milked every day and are normally lined up at the field gate when the farmer comes to bring them in! They like to get their udders emptied, plus, they know they will get fed nuts when they go into the parlour and they love it. It is not painful!

Then it says cows are milked 365 days a year. Actually most cows are milked for around 280 days - so again - wrong.

Then it says cows are given growth hormones which are harmful to human health. Again - wrong! Growth hormone use is completely illegal, strictly policed, it is NEVER given.

Then it says cows routinely get osteoporosis, and that 50% of cows have mastitis. Lie again! Seriously.... This is so ridiculous I don't know where to begin.

Then it says that blood and pus regularly gets into milk. Wrong again (sigh). It is totally illegal for milk from cows with infected udders to get into the milk chain. If a cow has any problems with her milk, the milk is not put into normal circulation, it is kept seperate from all the other milk and dumped. There are legal guidelines as to the quality if milk and if a farmer does not follow these he faces heavy fines and the creamery may refuse to collect milk from him again. Also, pasterurisation and strict hygiene measures are in place to ensure that all milk is totally clean and safe for human consumption. The idea that milk would be allowed to be sold with blood and pus in it is ridiculous!! Use your common sense, or else look it up from an actual reputable source.


Some other points that are wrong: That the size of cows udders causes them to be lame. That they are electrically prodded to get them to urinate/defecate in the right place!! That cows only live for 3 years. That cows are purposely sent to the factory when pregnant (if you knew about farming, if any cows are sent to the factory it is almost always because they can't get pregnant). That cows are dragged onto/off trailers to go to the factory - factories don't accept animals that aren't well enough to walk onto and off of the trailer on their own - it's illegal. Again, the lie that calves are routinely slaughtered at birth. Tail docking isn't routinely done here either. Cows don't get branded. They are NOT FED excerement, sawdust or animal parts!!! (again, BSE risk, also, what possible nutritional value would be in that diet? They are routinely fed silage/haylage, barley, soyameal etc etc)

And then it just shows some pointless 'scary' music while showing clips of people eating burgers. Honestly!

The last several minutes go on about beef production, which isn't very relevant at all, but if you want to reaad the truth about how that happens as well (I suggest you do as it mught make you feel better about yourself and about mankind in general....) then see this post, and some of the ones that follow it.

Finally it says that the key to living in harmony with these animals, so that they can have long and fulfilling lives, is to become vegetarian. I'm sorry but if everybody becomes vegetarian than you can enjoy seeing this lovely species of animals become extinct.


VIDEO 2: more of the same really! I don't think I need to reiteerate...


So can I ask you from one animal lover to another to trust me on this? It's not your fault if you don't know the facts but these genuinely are the facts. Please feel free to ask more questions if I can clarify anything for you. And keep supporting Irish farmers - they deserve your support.

I appreciate your a vet dvet, I understand you know exactly what your talking about. Your no doubt part of something good. Those videos are sensationalist but there is a darker side to everything. That darker side brings light to their claims.

If you could clarify what this farmer is saying, it would be appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leSRbDxEEOM

The darker side of farming

moonflower

I'm fairly picky about milk, I can definitely taste differences between brands.

Marks and Spencer's milk is vile, it always tastes rancid. I find Tesco's and Aldi's tend to taste like they've been left sitting around for a while too.

Avonmore is my favourite milk, but the Dunnes own brand one is grand too.

TouchingVirus

Does the great Champion milk not get a look in at all?

gsxr1

I know that there might be a few who are cruel to cows. Sure the same could be said about what people do to people.

But I worked on a dairy farmers house a year back, and he seemed to treat his cattle very well.
They all seemed to know the routine with out him even shouting at them. They walked right over the the milking parlor as soon as he opened the gate. It seemed they wanted to get milked .Was gas

Not watching those vids. I know they will upset me

angel01

I buy whatever is cheapest, I quite like the tesco branded milk

Sonnenblumen

Did anyone watch the Open University/BBC prog Food Billions on Dairy products? I was amazed at some of the findings and analysis of the 'health claims/benefits' of many products by various multinational producers.

The animal husbandry of lactating cows does cause huge concern, and some of the video clips posted here are very disturbing.

It really is no surprise, as in many other areas of intensive food production, animal welfare does appear to suffer.

Personally I prefer organic milk, but I need to check if the production methods are what one might expect. This whole sorry saga goes beyond brand, and shame on those dairy farmers for the unnecessary animal cruelty caused.

Shenshen

Shenshen wrote: »

30 - 40 grand free money is nice enough for "surviving on", I shouls think...

indeed when the production bills left after the price paid by the dairy has paid only some of them.. are 40 to 50k...
Don't you love it when people think they know something about something when in reality,they know nothing and still think they are right :rolleyes:

HarryPotter41

Johro wrote: »

I buy Wexford Creamery milk, because I like to support local business, because it tastes better and because cheap milk tastes like it's watered down, which it probably is.

A man whose father used to run their own little milk bottling outfit amny moons ago when every large town had one always said ya could water down the milk up to a certain percentage on occasion to make it better value for them to sell. I agree the cheaper milk does taste watery and I have always assumed that it is down to the legalities of what content of other liquid you can have in it along with pure milk.

dvet

pirelli wrote: »

I appreciate your a vet dvet, I understand you know exactly what your talking about. Your no doubt part of something good. Those videos are sensationalist but there is a darker side to everything. That darker side brings light to their claims.

If you could clarify what this farmer is saying, it would be appreciated.

<2 videos>

I think those videos are both sad in different ways. The first one just shows a rambling old man shouting profanities... He obviously has some mental issues... but all he does is walk around the yard and shout. I wouldn't say there's any harm in him - he is more confused and angry than anything. You can't even make out what he's mumbling half the time. I don't know why someone was letting him do that, and why they would possibly see it as funny to film it

And as for the 2nd video - ugh! I'll be honest - I couldn't watch past 40 or 50 seconds, because i was sickened to my stomach! If I ever saw an animal being treated like that, I wouldn't be responsible for my actions!! There are sickos out there that will kick, hit and maim animals, just as there are sickos out there who will kick, hit and maim children... and I don't EVER wish to watch a video of either thing happening.

Tying an animal up and hitting it across the head with iron bars?! Jumping up and down repeatedly on a calf's head?! :mad: If any farmer i know saw someone doing that to their animals, I can safely say to you that they would make sure that man never laid another finger on an animal. I've known farmers and other vets who have reported other farmers for much, much, much less.

So please don't watch videos like that and think that it must be commonplace. It's nothing more than sick. And it's certainly no basis with which to tar whole sectors of society with.

Paparazzo

I saw a video on YouTube of an English woman throw a cat in a bin. I don't need any more information, but all English people do this.

Can't beat a good milking.

Said the cow.

ejmaztec

auditek923 wrote: »

all the cheap brands come from a untested milk pool. basically 9 out of ten farmers could be treating there cattle with the right injections etc but it only takes the 1 to harm the other 9s milk. .... bit drunk here.......but avonmore milk is tested 17 times from the cow to the carton along production. and its irish. buy lidl or other cheap brands and your money is leaving the counrty. support your own. buy irish, buy a ndc, national dairy council, branded milk please.

That's bollocks.

--Kaiser--

That video is ****ing horrendous, those people are quite obviously mentally disturbed. If you think this is the normal way that dairy animals are treated then you're a fool.