Old Age Pension disgrace

Deise Tom

There is a new hospital open a few months in Dungarvan. There is four beds free and a notice on the ward door saying not to use the room. I would love to know why these beds cannot be used to allow people in say for a week every so often. The cost of funding them as was pointed out by a previous poster could be funded from a small drop in the OAP. I cant even see why the ward is closed. They are already heating the hospital, there is already staff on. Four extra patients is not going to mean much more work for them. In hospitals like this anyway the staff are not over worked anyway. the beds are already there and made up so that is not an extra cost. OK there would be the cost of feeding four more patients three or four times a day but that wont break the bank would it. I am sure there is similar wards in hospitals all over the country closed.

Smiley Burnett

Deise Tom wrote: »

Is there any place where we can find out exactly who will vote in favour of the OAP not been touched in Today's pension and people born with physical disabilities and who are not able to go out and do a full days work in the way that many would love to are been having their weekly income cut.

I have a major gripe about this. It would not be too bad if those that have a british pension and are getting it topped up when they come over here were cut but they wont, because TD's in ALL parties do not have the BALLS to stand up and say whats good for the goose should be good enough for the gander.

i think You know who is going to ONCE AGAIN vote to cut the income of people with disabilities.

Fianna Fail!!!!

thebman

You can't expect FF to give up the remaining 13% of people who support them by cutting their pensions.

This is FF trying to look after the grey vote for the next election. Expect voting day to try to be at the most inconvienient times and locations for those on social welfare, working in college and basically anyone not receiving a pension and those that are will get free bus trips to vote for FF.

One would struggle to continue to call this a democracy if the above is FF's plan and I believe it is TBH.

Many pensioners paid very little tax to the country during their working years.

In rural Ireland, in the 40s, 50s and 60s, most of the productive people left to work in Scotland, England and further afield.

Those left behind arsed around on farms and generally lived a self sustaining life, growing their own food, knitting, etc.

Those that emigrated and now have come home are sitting back and claiming off the backs of the min wage workers.

lucy2010

.. As pappa smurf said to me earlier.. " Technically i get more money than you now ". I have a chronic illness & through no choice cannot work. I wish I wasnt ill but I cant change that. His point was mine is reduced yet I have 2 kiddies to raise. His wasnt & he doesnt have me to rear any more. Yes I do get a few euros for the kids each week but the primary payment is now less. He gets his esb etc with his pension package but I dont. He gets his eircom paid I dont. He, a pensioner who was self employed all his life & my god did he pay his due in taxes over the years - he cant see the logic of it. Theres him & Mam & the cat. Then theres me & the kiddies & god have I too paid my taxes since I was 16.
I begrudge no one anything. We are dealt are cards & thats what we get . There are many more in a worse situation that I & god love them. Never knock a welfare recipient of any sort till you have to try it yourself someday. Whether you see everyone as a waster or you see through that bitterness & see the struggle going on out there. Many a family, be it a young one or an old one is worried tonight. Its not an us versus them arguement but maybe this government could have looked closer to the source of this nations problems in todays budget .

gollem_1975

rightwingdub wrote: »

we all have to take a hit be it pay cuts, reduction in mortgage interest allowances, rent relief etc.

tru dat.

most of the welfare cuts seem to have been about 4%... the defence being that this is bringing them back to 2007 levels while prices have gone back to 2006/7 levels.

if this was the rationale then I think OAPs could also have taken a 4% cut.

tbh I agree with Irish_bobb analysis of this one.

you will be hard pressed to find a politician of any ilk complaining that the gov didn't touch the OAP.

irishh_bob

gollem_1975 wrote: »

tru dat.

most of the welfare cuts seem to have been about 4%... the defence being that this is bringing them back to 2007 levels while prices have gone back to 2006/7 levels.

if this was the rationale then I think OAPs could also have taken a 4% cut.

tbh I agree with Irish_bobb analysis of this one.

you will be hard pressed to find a politician of any ilk complaining that the gov didn't touch the OAP.

damien english ( FG ) was on the radio this morning condemning every single descision the goverment made , he went onto say that FG would have cut wellfare but that they wouldnt have cut the old age pension , make no mistake , the next goverment wont touch it either , thier is almost absolute cover politically for leaving the OAP untouched

Deise Tom

salonfire wrote: »

Those that emigrated and now have come home are sitting back and claiming off the backs of the min wage workers.

And no party will stand up and say that their pensions should not be topped up. None of them, but some populists polititions might say they will till it comes to it.

Deise Tom

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

i think You know who is going to ONCE AGAIN vote to cut the income of people with disabilities.

Fianna Fail!!!!

What reason is there to vote for anyone else in Waterford.

Deise Tom

irishh_bob wrote: »

damien english ( FG ) was on the radio this morning condemning every single descision the goverment made , he went onto say that FG would have cut wellfare but that they wouldnt have cut the old age pension , make no mistake , the next goverment wont touch it either , thier is almost absolute cover politically for leaving the OAP untouched

John Halligan was on local radio in Waterford. God help us if he had anything to do with Dail Eireann.

Smiley Burnett

Deise Tom wrote: »

What reason is there to vote for anyone else in Waterford.

Reason number 1

---

The others DIDNT CUT DISABILITY ALLOWANCE!! Fianna Fail DID!!

ntlbell

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

Reason number 1

---

The others DIDNT CUT DISABILITY ALLOWANCE!! Fianna Fail DID!!

why should disability allowance not be cut?

Deise Tom

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

Reason number 1

---

The others DIDNT CUT DISABILITY ALLOWANCE!! Fianna Fail DID!!

Would they if they were in power

Smiley Burnett

Deise Tom wrote: »

Would they if they were in power

no.

Deise Tom

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

no.

Would love to be able to believe that.

Smiley Burnett

Deise Tom wrote: »

Would love to be able to believe that.

do you know what you can believe??? Fianna Fail and their cronies have destroyed this country and they are making vulnerable people like the disabled and the blind pay for it!!

motherriley

ntlbell wrote: »

why should disability allowance not be cut?

It is not a lifestyle choice to be disable or getting old and having age related conditions/illness.

Where as having children is a lifestlye choice nowadays.

cleremy jarkson

My 84 year old grandmother is on the non-contributary old age pension and she says she's never had it so good. She said she could easily take a 50 euro cut. This is a woman who worked hard up until retirement but because she now has hardly any outgoings and get's loads of freebies off the state, she has more money than she ever did.

motherriley

cleremy jarkson wrote: »

My 84 year old grandmother is on the non-contributary old age pension and she says she's never had it so good. She said she could easily take a 50 euro cut. This is a woman who worked hard up until retirement but because she now has hardly any outgoings and get's loads of freebies off the state, she has more money than she ever did.

You are referring to the state pensions and good for your grandmother that she is fit and argil, but a time may come where she has to go into care and believe me this is not cheap. If your grandmother has any money in her estate or saving that will soon go if she needs to go into care for being locked up 24/7 if she is unlucky and gets a condition like dementia or Alzheimer.

If your grandmother has a caring members of family (very few around nowadays) they will need to be with her every day to see that she is not been mistreated in these care home.

I am speaking from experience here as my sister unfortunately has the above condition and it is appalling how these people are treated also very little recreations in these places for resident in these care home.

My sister pays from her pension and her husband pension (he is unfortunately dead) over 40k a year for the privilege of been locked up for 24/7 as there little or no outside space for outside recreation for residents a bit of concrete postage stamp area. There is never enough of staff as the greedy owners of these home employ very little staff and they use the carers as cleaners as well.

Prisons get outside for daily recreations as it would be a breach of human rights if they do not get out every day, but unfortunately this is not a condition in care home. Food is disgusting also there is a lot unhealthy food in these places. No fresh fruit or vegetable that I have seen in them. If resident/patients clothing is washed in the home they very rarely get the item of clothing back.

I could go on and on about this but I am sure it would not be allowed on here.

I do agree however that the state pension is generous in Ireland but I expect it would not be PC to cut and I expect it will be froze for the next 4 years or so. However it is worth remembering that when your grandmother dies she will leave a will, and if she can avoid care home that is, I do not know why these place are called care homes as they do not resemble anything like the home that the patients/residents have built up over the years or indeed place like prisons, your grandmother can will whatever she like to her grandchildren.

Deise Tom

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

do you know what you can believe??? Fianna Fail and their cronies have destroyed this country and they are making vulnerable people like the disabled and the blind pay for it!!

And the Fine Gael party members are not involved in any sort of coruption are they.

Deise Tom

motherriley wrote: »

It is not a lifestyle choice to be disable or getting old and having age related conditions/illness.

Where as having children is a lifestlye choice nowadays.

Or in the case of some to get off their arse and look for work or take work which they see is beneath them.

motherriley

That is a sweeping generalisation, what you say may apply to some but not all.

the UK government says that they want to make work pay better than benefits, but what work is there for people about now. This should have been done in the good times not when there is a deep recession in the country.

Some people feel that they are better off financially on benefits and again that should not be the case.

Child care is not cheap therefore what is better... parent(s) going out to work or staying home looking after their children for the first years of their life.

If there were enough places for child care I am sure most would be prepared to go out to work as it is better for them in the long run, gives people a sense of achievement and take some responsibility for their lives... and also it is good for the child to see that they will have to work to make their way in the world today.

ntlbell

motherriley wrote: »

It is not a lifestyle choice to be disable or getting old and having age related conditions/illness.

Where as having children is a lifestlye choice nowadays.

but if a person who is disabled has their caring needs taken care of, why do they need more money than someone else?

Deise Tom

ntlbell wrote: »

but if a person who is disabled has their caring needs taken care of, why do they need more money than someone else?

As a disabled person i can tell you that where ever you got that notion, you are 100% wrong in thinking that way.

As for the money, most disabled people would love to be able to get up every day and do an honest days work, unlike many able bodied people who are either too lazy or too snobbish to do something that they see is beneath them.

ntlbell

Deise Tom wrote: »

As a disabled person i can tell you that where ever you got that notion, you are 100% wrong in thinking that way.

Care to explain why?

DailyBlaa

The Government has being banging on about reducing social welfare payments back to 2006-2007 levels. If that is the case then all social payments should have got the hit regardless. FF are too afraid to upset the grey vote.

MonkieSocks

You are all argumenting about Pensioners and their payments, it a pittance to what the Government could have got back through closing Tax Breaks for their cronies.

Closing down the Quangos could also have saved a fortune.

Nobody seems to be complaining about Booze and Ciggies not going up.


There were better and fairer ways to reduce the budget deficiet , but the Finna Fails and the Stupid Greens decided to hit the poorest members of our society.


WHERE does the money go from that Enviorment tax that Gormless put on our home heating bills and petrol for our cars.

More and more people will be living on the poverty line, crime will increase because of this budget.

You have all been sidetracked into argumenting about side issues like pensions, while the Big Fish are getting away with murder.


Big Bank Bonus for their friends in AIB €40 million of taxpayers money for the idiots who got us into trouble in the first place.


Someone said about pensioners having no mortage.............well the reason why they don't have a mortage is because they PAID their mortage in full and sometimes at a much much rate of interest.


:pac:Long Live The Pensioners

ntlbell

MonkieSocks wrote: »

You are all argumenting about Pensioners and their payments, it a pittance to what the Government could have got back through closing Tax Breaks for their cronies.

Closing down the Quangos could also have saved a fortune.

Nobody seems to be complaining about Booze and Ciggies not going up.

Because raising booze and ciggies force people to stay in and buy beer up north while finding criminal gangs purchasing ilegal cigs. you have to find a balance between affordability and taxation.

microbio wrote: »

There were better and fairer ways to reduce the budget deficiet , but the Finna Fails and the Stupid Greens decided to hit the poorest members of our society.

An attack on the poorest of society i'm sick of hearing that. show me based on a budget based on SW rates how anyone is poor?

microbio wrote: »

More and more people will be living on the poverty line, crime will increase because of this budget.

Poverty line my eye. even at the new rates it provides for a comofrtable basic living during your stop gap between jobs.

microbio wrote: »

You have all been sidetracked into argumenting about side issues like pensions, while the Big Fish are getting away with murder.

Vote them out then.

microbio wrote: »

Big Bank Bonus for their friends in AIB €40 million of taxpayers money for the idiots who got us into trouble in the first place.

This was shocking.

microbio wrote: »

Someone said about pensioners having no mortage.............well the reason why they don't have a mortage is because they PAID their mortage in full and sometimes at a much much rate of interest.


:pac:Long Live The Pensioners

Right, so they have a much lower level of outgoungs so why would they need more than others now?

you shouldn't get a pat on the back for buying a bloody home.

Drumpot

MonkieSocks wrote: »

You are all argumenting about Pensioners and their payments, it a pittance to what the Government could have got back through closing Tax Breaks for their cronies.

Closing down the Quangos could also have saved a fortune.

Nobody seems to be complaining about Booze and Ciggies not going up.


There were better and fairer ways to reduce the budget deficiet , but the Finna Fails and the Stupid Greens decided to hit the poorest members of our society.


WHERE does the money go from that Enviorment tax that Gormless put on our home heating bills and petrol for our cars.

More and more people will be living on the poverty line, crime will increase because of this budget.

You have all been sidetracked into argumenting about side issues like pensions, while the Big Fish are getting away with murder.


Big Bank Bonus for their friends in AIB €40 million of taxpayers money for the idiots who got us into trouble in the first place.


Someone said about pensioners having no mortage.............well the reason why they don't have a mortage is because they PAID their mortage in full and sometimes at a much much rate of interest.


:pac:Long Live The Pensioners

I agree to a degree.

What people want is collective pain, only then can we all feel that we are working towards the same goal.

If everybody has paid their way to the progress of Ireland, then we can all confidently chase the vested interest groups as a unified group.

Euroland

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I genuinely believe that the people on the minimum pensions shouldn’t be touched; however we should cap all the state pensions at 25K a year, no more enormous pension for public/civil servants and former politicians, they have to learn living on a similar level with the rest of the pensioners. All public sector salaries should be capped at 100K a year, banks bankrupted, the dole cut to 100 Euro a week with the maximum period of 2-3 years.

motherriley

Euroland wrote: »

I genuinely believe that the people on the minimum pensions shouldn’t be touched; however we should cap all the state pensions at 25K a year, no more enormous pension for public/civil servants and former politicians, they have to learn living on a similar level with the rest of the pensioners. All public sector salaries should be capped at 100K a year, banks bankrupted, the dole cut to 100 Euro a week with the maximum period of 2-3 years.

State pension at 25k a year, you are probably thinking about TD's here, I have lived and worked in the UK and if I get anything over 9k a year it is taxed.

Wished I lived in Ireland with a state pension of £25k a year.

melekalikimaka

Euroland wrote: »

I genuinely believe that the people on the minimum pensions shouldn’t be touched; however we should cap all the state pensions at 25K a year, no more enormous pension for public/civil servants and former politicians, they have to learn living on a similar level with the rest of the pensioners.

should we all start wearing red and working on communal farms too? It would destroy work ethic and lead to serious dodgy dealings if you intent to smash a persons standard of living to a set standard like that. so if a person was on say 200k a year, then drops to a pension of 25k, he's to sell up shop and start a new life within a lower bracket of spending? retiring will equal ending of a persons life as it once was to a degree. madness

irishh_bob

cleremy jarkson wrote: »

My 84 year old grandmother is on the non-contributary old age pension and she says she's never had it so good. She said she could easily take a 50 euro cut. This is a woman who worked hard up until retirement but because she now has hardly any outgoings and get's loads of freebies off the state, she has more money than she ever did.

pensioners ( those soley on the state pension ) only real expense is food as more or less everything else is free , with the OAP rates we have at the moment , those on it could easily save 100 euro per week if not more

liammur

irishh_bob wrote: »

pensioners ( those soley on the state pension ) only real expense is food as more or less everything else is free , with the OAP rates we have at the moment , those on it could easily save 100 euro per week if not more

They do spend a lot of € on bingo cards and scratch cards.

cleremy jarkson

irishh_bob wrote: »

pensioners ( those soley on the state pension ) only real expense is food as more or less everything else is free , with the OAP rates we have at the moment , those on it could easily save 100 euro per week if not more

She actually said she could save 100 if she had to! Which leaves me to believe a 20 or 30 euro cut, however unjust it might seem to take off the generations that paid through their arses in tax, wouldn't affect the vast majority of pensioners.

irishh_bob

cleremy jarkson wrote: »

She actually said she could save 100 if she had to! Which leaves me to believe a 20 or 30 euro cut, however unjust it might seem to take off the generations that paid through their arses in tax, wouldn't affect the vast majority of pensioners.

i think we should be looking at a rate of 150 euro per week for pensioners in five years , thats around the same as in the uk which is a richer country than us or at least will be in five years compared to us

irishh_bob

cleremy jarkson wrote: »

She actually said she could save 100 if she had to! Which leaves me to believe a 20 or 30 euro cut, however unjust it might seem to take off the generations that paid through their arses in tax, wouldn't affect the vast majority of pensioners.

people need to realise that the difference between the contributary ( 232 ) and the non contributory is only 14 euro per week , you are entitled to the non contributory regardless of whether you ever paid tax in your life

i know farmers with hundreds of acres of land who get 232 euro per week plus all the other perks and yet to cut them would be an injustice according to the majority of people , personally speaking id perfer see it going to the family of the kids who were scavaging in bins in killkenny this past few days , many groups vye for the title of most vulnerable but i honestly believe it can only ever be children , no voice and more importantly no vote

Deise Tom

irishh_bob wrote: »

i think we should be looking at a rate of 150 euro per week for pensioners in five years , thats around the same as in the uk which is a richer country than us or at least will be in five years compared to us

Its how much things have gone up or down in price in five years time i would love to know.

CP Kindleberger

This is a mad thread . People you are in the hands of the IMF and some weird Euro ECB resuce group which has no form .

My Parents are in their 70 's and my Father is very sick at the moment . They have over 800,000 Euro in very liquid assets . This has been saved and invested over their lifetime . They had a hard life . They never once took a holiday and we were the last people in Ireland to get a car . We used to walk miles to a shopping centre on the north side with a old pram which we used to carry the shopping back with .

They come from Dublin's inner city . My mother would give Warren Buffett a run for his money where investing is concerned .

They worked , saved and invested . They always paid tax . My Father has a real problem with people who defraud tax .

They use state benifits and use them to the max . They marched when the government wanted to cut their medical card . They have never ever voted for FF .

I have for a laugh asked them about being so rich and taking state benifits while the country is in such a mess . They in response first questioned my sanity and then mentioned , Bankers , developers and Bertie .

They argue that why should they pay when people were happy to vote for somebody who was openly corrupt ? Did people really think that house prices could keep going up forever ? Why was it a good thing that people thought that being not able to afford a house was a good thing ?

These days they will ask why Seanie is playing golf in Spain after the biggest bank failure in the history of the world is in progress .

If you asked them today they would simply ask why Dermot Aherne is walking away with an amazing golden parachute .

Should they pay ? Weirdly if they thought that they lived in a fair society , I guess that they would .

But they don't and as all their children live abroad they have moved their life savings offshore as they don't trust either the government or the banks .

rightwingdub

OAPS have it great here in Ireland when it comes to benefits, they can take a €40 hit given all the freebies that they get, eirsom landline, esb bill, tv licenses, free travel etc.

I'm sick of hearing all this bleeding heart nonsense. I hope the EU/IMF order the next government to cut the OAP by €40 over the next few years.

Deise Tom

rightwingdub wrote: »

OAPS have it great here in Ireland when it comes to benefits, they can take a €40 hit given all the freebies that they get, eirsom landline, esb bill, tv licenses, free travel etc.

I'm sick of hearing all this bleeding heart nonsense. I hope the EU/IMF order the next government to cut the OAP by €40 over the next few years.

Do you firlmly believe that OAP's get all you say for free. They get the TV Licence and the Travel all right but the others are only a reduction in what none OAP's would pay.

One thing the Government should have looked at was the Free Travel. One of the better things they done was to bring in the 50cent charge on the medical card perscriptions. It was wrong that people should expect everything for nothing, and a sizeable portion (by no means everyone) of what people was getting on a regular basis was something no stronger than Disprin with a fancy name.

The Free travel is of no use to the majority of the people that have it as they do not have a regular bus service in their area. There is guide a few passes out there however and i would say that if you were to ask those with them, if they were to be charged say a Euro for each trip that would normally cost over five euro they would gladly pay it.

I know doing this would not have made the Billions needed to run our country or even a sum in the tens of millions but it would have been a start and there could have been other items which were hit left alone or with a smaller cut.

TOMP

I am really annoyed at the government decision to increase the retirement age (and eligibility for state pension), I am in my fifties, and have worked in the private sector for 30+ years. Now the Government have moved the finishing line 2 years further away, I must wait until age 67 to get the pension instead of 65.

ilovesleep

TOMP wrote: »

I am really annoyed at the government decision to increase the retirement age (and eligibility for state pension), I am in my fifties, and have worked in the private sector for 30+ years. Now the Government have moved the finishing line 2 years further away, I must wait until age 67 to get the pension instead of 65.

Please dont be worried. The life expectancy of the Irish will decrease sharply soon.

irishh_bob

TOMP wrote: »

I am really annoyed at the government decision to increase the retirement age (and eligibility for state pension), I am in my fifties, and have worked in the private sector for 30+ years. Now the Government have moved the finishing line 2 years further away, I must wait until age 67 to get the pension instead of 65.

welcome to the great depression

later12

irishh_bob wrote: »

welcome to the great depression

You do know we've just technically left recession? Right?

I mean things are bad. Very bad. But I'm starting to feel the great depression here is a mental one.

gally

I,m two years away from the old age pernsion and thankfully still working.However most of my workmates are in their 29,s and 30,s. Now while I,ve missed no day in the last six years many of my colleagues are regularly out "sick" or can,t make it to work because of the bad weather.
It was,nt my generation who f****d up the country so piss off and lay off my pension which i,ve well earned!

irishh_bob

later10 wrote: »

You do know we've just technically left recession? Right?

I mean things are bad. Very bad. But I'm starting to feel the great depression here is a mental one.

yeah , jobless recovery and all that , im more worried about the multi billion - multi generation interest repayments on the bailout

irishh_bob

gally wrote: »

I,m two years away from the old age pernsion and thankfully still working.However most of my workmates are in their 29,s and 30,s. Now while I,ve missed no day in the last six years many of my colleagues are regularly out "sick" or can,t make it to work because of the bad weather.
It was,nt my generation who f****d up the country so piss off and lay off my pension which i,ve well earned!

maybe you can console yourself in the knowledge that your twenty something colleagues wont be on anything like the state pension you can expect in a few years

10belowzero

Good on ye Gally , all this from a bunch of ex septic tiger cub's , who probably spent the last few years crawling around the street's of ireland and further abroad , drinking , vomiting , fighting , snorting , riding , molesting , murdering , raping, and any other debasement ye care to mention.
Whilst we're at it , all them sick kid's in hospital , should be kicked out of their bed's , what contribution have they made to the country, and the mentally ill or those with special need's , school's need closing badly too, teaching children too know better,so they might question or want more from life , than their position dictates.
Surely those most aggreived by pensioner's should be working 7 day's a week , at two job's at 1955 pay rate's and not expect any of the modern day working right's won by pensioner's and their union's over many year's of struggle and toil.
Thrashing's should be reintroduced for the employee's that are late,tardy and slovenly about their duties , the cost and loss of productivity due too birching should of course be borne by the chastised employee.
Aye and no annual or '' sick'' leave ( esp uncertified ), maternity or ''spousal'' leave or compassionate or '' special leave '' , except upon the death of the employee .
Aye bring back the good old day's , before union's , pension's or social entitlement's , dole , rent allowance's , tax rebate's etc , aye indeed Gally ,history does repeat it'self , all this anti pensioner crap remind's me of the rambling's and ranting's of a certain Mr Adolf Hitler , in the spring of 1933 in Munich ,look where that got Germany and the world.
Yes Gally , indeed you were right , and as Bill Cullen would say , the party's over for you septic tiger cub's ---- AHH but listen to the lam's cry , as the distant smell of alochol , smoke , rolled up note's and crumpled up tinfoil is replaced by , the knock of the sheriff , the repossessor and the licenced loan shark's and the coroner's report - will the sap's learn i doubt it - you enjoy your pension Gally , you've earned it.