Old Age Pension disgrace

irishh_bob

Idbatterim wrote: »

why the hell on the likes of Vincent Browne, does he always go on about the vulnerable being attacked? we are the most broke nation in europe, with low taxes and very generous welfare. Ofcourse alot of people here reckon there is nothing wrong with being as well or better off than someone who actually goes out and works!

vincent browne is on the far left which means he is a complete economic illiterete , most of his shows revolve around him wringing his hands and lamenting how unfair it all is , akin to kevin from the harry enfield show

that said , he was the only broadcaster on tv providing truth to the public during the recent banking crisis , on the banks , he has been a brave and honest broadcaster , the man has guts and passion , he just lives in a fantasy world when it comes to economics

flutered

in last years budget the oaps were not hit, but the widows, the disabled and their carers were, which just goes to show how much of a proctected species they are, plus the fact that quite a number of them have two pensions, both a ps and an oap, could this be wherein the problem lies.

Sleepy

I'd comment but I'm sick of being compared to hitler for the seemingly outlandish idea that those receiving the pension are no more deserving than those receiving the dole.

amacca

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd comment but I'm sick of being compared to hitler for the seemingly outlandish idea that those receiving the pension are no more deserving than those receiving the dole.

jawohl mein fuhrer!:rolleyes:???????

but zis makes no zense.....zose good germanz zat have contributed to our glorious reich must be protected no?

I'd say there should be smaller reduction for those on contributory pension than those on pension zat was provided for sitting on ones hole and participating in the black economy etc etc

long term unemployed (not disabled or sick) with no intention of finding work --- community service for dole payments or progressive reductions to barely subsistence level.......

vere ist mein Luger

Sir Oxman

flutered wrote: »

in last years budget the oaps were not hit, but the widows, the disabled and their carers were, which just goes to show how much of a proctected species they are, plus the fact that quite a number of them have two pensions, both a ps and an oap, could this be wherein the problem lies.

The only reason they have been untouched last year and now this year is that they vote and in good numbers for FF.
If thsi country muddles through the next few years, teh new govt will have to tackle the oaps and they will get the blame, not FF. It's disgusting.

I agree about the carers, a group who save this country copious amounts of money every year.
Funny how they are hit again and again.

irishh_bob

gambiaman wrote: »

The only reason they have been untouched last year and now this year is that they vote and in good numbers for FF.
If thsi country muddles through the next few years, teh new govt will have to tackle the oaps and they will get the blame, not FF. It's disgusting.

I agree about the carers, a group who save this country copious amounts of money every year.
Funny how they are hit again and again.

lots of groups vote fianna fail in large numbers yet they are not spared cuts entirely , fianna fail dont touch pensioners because they have overwhelming public support not to cut them , as i said earlier , the next goverment wont touch pensioners either , a homeless guy was interviewed on the news at one today , he mentioned all the people who the goverment had cut and what do you know , pensioners were included , this despite the fact that they have not recieved any cuts in any of the recent budgets , by default , most people think of pensioners as vulnerable , weak and poor and under attack , nothing could be further from the truth ,
untill irish people stop being so mushy headed and sentimental about certain groups , things will not change

alejandro1977

joolsveer wrote: »

I don't think that contributory allowances should be cut as the recipients have paid into a fund for this - a type of national insurance. My mother is 86 and receives the contributory old age pension on the basis of her own contributions and those of my late father. I would not like to see her income being cut after a lifetime of living and working in this state.

As Comical Lenny has pointed out the Old age pension has increased way above inflation since 2000. I'm guessing an 86 year old hasn't worked since then so I really don't think that you can use that arguement against cutting it back to the inflation adjusted rate.

_Whimsical_

In this case it's not actually FF that are solely responsible for a lack of cuts in pensions. The minister for social welfare said a few weeks ago in a radio interview that no one would be spared in social welfare cuts. Yet in recent weeks we have seen Jackie Healy Ray and Michael Lowry grand standing on the OAP issue saying that they would not support the budget if there were cuts to it. As our political system is as it is that would result in the budget collapsing, panic in the markets and huge financial implications for Ireland , perhaps the Eurozone as a whole. Infact yesterday Bloomberg highlighted Jackie Healy Ray as "the sugar daddy" of Ireland and the man who may hold the fate of the Euro in his hands.

Lowry and Healy Ray will be re-elected next time around in their constituencies because they'll have protected the pockets of their most powerful voting demographic. The result in essence will be that as the rest of shoulder the burden for OAPs ,all of us will pay for the best election campaign imaginable for Lowry & Healy Ray.

_Whimsical_

Ick!
Tony Killeen FF minister on TV defending lack of cuts to the OAPs because they've contributed to Irish society and are least equipped to find work now.

When it's put to him that carers,the blind and the disabled are in the same position his response is "ahh now...it's not as if we are putting them back to 1916 levels" .

Then he says middle Ireland are also being hit so these groups must take the pain but the fact remains the OAPs are the least equipped to cope with a financial cut.

They just don't care at all .:(

rightwingdub

They should have cut the ddole by 15%, OAP by 10%. This budget is a joke.

gollem_1975

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

In this case it's not actually FF that are solely responsible for a lack of cuts in pensions. The minister for social welfare said a few weeks ago in a radio interview that no one would be spared in social welfare cuts. Yet in recent weeks we have seen Jackie Healy Ray and Michael Lowry grand standing on the OAP issue saying that they would not support the budget if there were cuts to it. As our political system is as it is that would result in the budget collapsing, panic in the markets and huge financial implications for Ireland , perhaps the Eurozone as a whole. Infact yesterday Bloomberg highlighted Jackie Healy Ray as "the sugar daddy" of Ireland and the man who may hold the fate of the Euro in his hands.

Lowry and Healy Ray will be re-elected next time around in their constituencies because they'll have protected the pockets of their most powerful voting demographic. The result in essence will be that as the rest of shoulder the burden for OAPs ,all of us will pay for the best election campaign imaginable for Lowry & Healy Ray.

or if the opposition had undertaken a tallaght strategy part 2 a lot more of the austerity measures that are being called for here could have been implemented...

speaking of which there seems to be a lot of people on here calling for tougher measures.. presumably measures that fall on people other than themselves.

rightwingdub

gollem_1975 wrote: »

or if the opposition had undertaken a tallaght strategy part 2 a lot more of the austerity measures that are being called for here could have been implemented...

speaking of which there seems to be a lot of people on here calling for tougher measures.. presumably measures that fall on people other than themselves.

we all have to take a hit be it pay cuts, reduction in mortgage interest allowances, rent relief etc.

Deise Tom

Is there any place where we can find out exactly who will vote in favour of the OAP not been touched in Today's pension and people born with physical disabilities and who are not able to go out and do a full days work in the way that many would love to are been having their weekly income cut.

I have a major gripe about this. It would not be too bad if those that have a british pension and are getting it topped up when they come over here were cut but they wont, because TD's in ALL parties do not have the BALLS to stand up and say whats good for the goose should be good enough for the gander.

solerina

Cut the pension for those that paid nothing into it due to years of sitting on their ar***.
Cut the dole for those that have also sat on their ar*** during the boom times...
Cut the payments to single parents (only those who are not really single parents...come on we all know plenty of them)
Increase money for those who worked/paid taxes and have unfortunately lost their jobs recently....
Pay out on a sliding scale....the longer unemployed, the less you get
Rant over...and no I am not unemployed (I know I am lucky)

Max Power1

solerina wrote: »

Cut the pension for those that paid nothing into it due to years of sitting on their ar***.
Cut the dole for those that have also sat on their ar*** during the boom times...
Cut the payments to single parents (only those who are not really single parents...come on we all know plenty of them)
Increase money for those who worked/paid taxes and have unfortunately lost their jobs recently....
Pay out on a sliding scale....the longer unemployed, the less you get
Rant over...and no I am not unemployed (I know I am lucky)

+1 million to all the above, couldnt have said it better myself.

I am fuming here at the thought of my extra taxes next year, compared to Joe Pensioner with no cut at all, or Jim Longtermdolerecipient, who has a miniscule cut.

motherriley

Max Power1 wrote: »

+1 million to all the above, couldnt have said it better myself.

I am fuming here at the thought of my extra taxes next year, compared to Joe Pensioner with no cut at all, or Jim Longtermdolerecipient, who has a miniscule cut.

It is not just Joe Pensioner, do you think these in people that make the rules are going to shoot themselves in the foot, they will be retiring and if they cut pensioners they will also be cutting it for themselves. Look at their salaries I read somewhere that the leader (Cowen) salary was equivalent to that of Obama. We all know that the US has over 500 million populations compare to Ireland of 4 to 5 million. If the TD's are paying themselves the same as the US to run a country of 4 to 5 million, surely that says it all. :mad:

These TD's throw a few crumbs to Joe Public in the country and they are now taking it back due to none of them not been able to do simple maths.

blue_steel

You have to admire pensioners weilding so much influence simply by bothering their holes to vote. A lesson for everyone there. Politicians will never give a toss about people who don't even exercise their right to sack them.

_Whimsical_

solerina wrote: »

Cut the pension for those that paid nothing into it due to years of sitting on their ar***.
Cut the dole for those that have also sat on their ar*** during the boom times...
Cut the payments to single parents (only those who are not really single parents...come on we all know plenty of them)
Increase money for those who worked/paid taxes and have unfortunately lost their jobs recently....
Pay out on a sliding scale....the longer unemployed, the less you get
Rant over...and no I am not unemployed (I know I am lucky)

Hold on now!

Those on the non contributory OAP are a diverse group of people. It is highly unfair to say they are a group who "spent years sitting on their arse doing nothing".

Some of them are women from another era who were forced to give up jobs when they married and who reared families who have hugely contributed to the nation.Others will have spent years working as carers for disabled relatives over the course of their life at a time when that was not recognized financially by the state.Their work saved the state an immense sum. Others on the non contributory pension are workers, particularly some trades people, who worked all their lives believing they were paying stamps etc only to find their employer had pocketed this money.They are also those who spent their lives disabled living on the pittance provided to them in the last 60 or so years. You have to remember that these people lived at a time when education was the preserve of the wealthy. They did not have the same opportunities we have had.

The majority who qualify for this pension were not enjoying the high life or living off the fat of the land in their younger years and they are NOT the problem here. The politicians and our political system are. I believe that the OAPs should have taken the social welfare cut but I don't blame them for not being hit.

irishh_bob

blue_steel wrote: »

You have to admire pensioners weilding so much influence simply by bothering their holes to vote. A lesson for everyone there. Politicians will never give a toss about people who don't even exercise their right to sack them.

when you cut the pension , you loose more than the pensioners vote , the majority of people feel the same way about cutting pensioners as they do about closing hospitals in small provincial towns , its a hot button issue and one that nearly always garners an emotional ( yet irrational ) response

sallystar

Ireland has a population which is now living longer. As many of these people get older they may require home help or may need to go into a nursing home. As most people would prefer to see out their days while still living at home, this will now not be an option as there will be less home-help.
There is a huge difference in the cost of a Nursing Home for a week compared to this home-help. Most of the individuals pension is taken from them when they go into a Nursing Home anyway, there is already a shortage of Nursing Home beds, which in turn blocks acute hospital beds for up to 8 weeks, maybe more.
If the pension was dropped by even €5 per week and if this money was used to provide more community care we would have more employment and people that can live in their homes for as long as possible.

Deise Tom

There is a new hospital open a few months in Dungarvan. There is four beds free and a notice on the ward door saying not to use the room. I would love to know why these beds cannot be used to allow people in say for a week every so often. The cost of funding them as was pointed out by a previous poster could be funded from a small drop in the OAP. I cant even see why the ward is closed. They are already heating the hospital, there is already staff on. Four extra patients is not going to mean much more work for them. In hospitals like this anyway the staff are not over worked anyway. the beds are already there and made up so that is not an extra cost. OK there would be the cost of feeding four more patients three or four times a day but that wont break the bank would it. I am sure there is similar wards in hospitals all over the country closed.

Smiley Burnett

Deise Tom wrote: »

Is there any place where we can find out exactly who will vote in favour of the OAP not been touched in Today's pension and people born with physical disabilities and who are not able to go out and do a full days work in the way that many would love to are been having their weekly income cut.

I have a major gripe about this. It would not be too bad if those that have a british pension and are getting it topped up when they come over here were cut but they wont, because TD's in ALL parties do not have the BALLS to stand up and say whats good for the goose should be good enough for the gander.

i think You know who is going to ONCE AGAIN vote to cut the income of people with disabilities.

Fianna Fail!!!!

thebman

You can't expect FF to give up the remaining 13% of people who support them by cutting their pensions.

This is FF trying to look after the grey vote for the next election. Expect voting day to try to be at the most inconvienient times and locations for those on social welfare, working in college and basically anyone not receiving a pension and those that are will get free bus trips to vote for FF.

One would struggle to continue to call this a democracy if the above is FF's plan and I believe it is TBH.

Many pensioners paid very little tax to the country during their working years.

In rural Ireland, in the 40s, 50s and 60s, most of the productive people left to work in Scotland, England and further afield.

Those left behind arsed around on farms and generally lived a self sustaining life, growing their own food, knitting, etc.

Those that emigrated and now have come home are sitting back and claiming off the backs of the min wage workers.

lucy2010

.. As pappa smurf said to me earlier.. " Technically i get more money than you now ". I have a chronic illness & through no choice cannot work. I wish I wasnt ill but I cant change that. His point was mine is reduced yet I have 2 kiddies to raise. His wasnt & he doesnt have me to rear any more. Yes I do get a few euros for the kids each week but the primary payment is now less. He gets his esb etc with his pension package but I dont. He gets his eircom paid I dont. He, a pensioner who was self employed all his life & my god did he pay his due in taxes over the years - he cant see the logic of it. Theres him & Mam & the cat. Then theres me & the kiddies & god have I too paid my taxes since I was 16.
I begrudge no one anything. We are dealt are cards & thats what we get . There are many more in a worse situation that I & god love them. Never knock a welfare recipient of any sort till you have to try it yourself someday. Whether you see everyone as a waster or you see through that bitterness & see the struggle going on out there. Many a family, be it a young one or an old one is worried tonight. Its not an us versus them arguement but maybe this government could have looked closer to the source of this nations problems in todays budget .

gollem_1975

rightwingdub wrote: »

we all have to take a hit be it pay cuts, reduction in mortgage interest allowances, rent relief etc.

tru dat.

most of the welfare cuts seem to have been about 4%... the defence being that this is bringing them back to 2007 levels while prices have gone back to 2006/7 levels.

if this was the rationale then I think OAPs could also have taken a 4% cut.

tbh I agree with Irish_bobb analysis of this one.

you will be hard pressed to find a politician of any ilk complaining that the gov didn't touch the OAP.

irishh_bob

gollem_1975 wrote: »

tru dat.

most of the welfare cuts seem to have been about 4%... the defence being that this is bringing them back to 2007 levels while prices have gone back to 2006/7 levels.

if this was the rationale then I think OAPs could also have taken a 4% cut.

tbh I agree with Irish_bobb analysis of this one.

you will be hard pressed to find a politician of any ilk complaining that the gov didn't touch the OAP.

damien english ( FG ) was on the radio this morning condemning every single descision the goverment made , he went onto say that FG would have cut wellfare but that they wouldnt have cut the old age pension , make no mistake , the next goverment wont touch it either , thier is almost absolute cover politically for leaving the OAP untouched

Deise Tom

salonfire wrote: »

Those that emigrated and now have come home are sitting back and claiming off the backs of the min wage workers.

And no party will stand up and say that their pensions should not be topped up. None of them, but some populists polititions might say they will till it comes to it.

Deise Tom

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

i think You know who is going to ONCE AGAIN vote to cut the income of people with disabilities.

Fianna Fail!!!!

What reason is there to vote for anyone else in Waterford.

Deise Tom

irishh_bob wrote: »

damien english ( FG ) was on the radio this morning condemning every single descision the goverment made , he went onto say that FG would have cut wellfare but that they wouldnt have cut the old age pension , make no mistake , the next goverment wont touch it either , thier is almost absolute cover politically for leaving the OAP untouched

John Halligan was on local radio in Waterford. God help us if he had anything to do with Dail Eireann.